From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 09:15:13 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA15129; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:15:13 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (smtp.worley.co.nz [202.36.210.250]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id JAA15119 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:15:06 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256695.00744DF6 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:10:21 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256695.0073A502.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:10:30 +1200 Subject: RE: mind college [ random comments ] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >>Gosh, now even the Mind college has a generic "damage" spell. Spoilt >>anyway by Force Shield (at least it is self only), being "just like the >>others" is *just* what the mind college really needs... not. I didn't >>see a Flying spell, but I'm sure one has been suggested. >Er... Disruption is simply Molecular Disruption with the techy terms >"molecular" and "cellular" removed. It's hardly new. >And I could certainly present a case for Levitation being in the Mind >College instead of E&E - it's a very mystic effect. But not flying... If we start trying to put spells in the colleges they "should" be in we'll be here for ever..... Earth Tremor in Earth College for example springs to mind. "Molecular Rearrangement" in Binder. Then we can kill all the Binders and both problems will go away. And maybe Illusion will just go away by itself. ( oops, let my bigotry slip there :) I do agree with a previous comment about Unseen being too prolific to some extent. It's a very mind mage kind of thing. Mind speech is a stupid spell as is Limited Precog. Mind Speech should be between the mind mage and ONE other person and should require the mind mage to not do anything else, close their eyes and hold their left hand against their temple. :) L8R, Adam. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 09:54:28 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA15183; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:54:28 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id JAA15173 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:54:27 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id JAA18773; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:49:46 +1300 Message-ID: <361A8377.9678B6DC@peace.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:54:15 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: mind college [ random comments ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: martin.dickson@peace.com X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. amtennant@worley.co.nz wrote: > Mind Speech should be > between the mind mage and ONE other person and should require the mind > mage to not do anything else, close their eyes and hold their left hand > against their temple. :) 'Course this would be a way to fix Telepathy too -- if you had to hold your target at arms length and carefully position your fingers on their face before sucking their mind out. Hey, neat idea for the Mind College -- make all their spell Range: Touch. :) - Martin -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 10:58:51 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA15362; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:58:51 +1300 Received: from date.palm.cri.nz (date.palm.cri.nz [161.66.1.20]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA15351 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:58:50 +1300 Received: from mail1.marc.cri.nz (mail1.marc.cri.nz [161.29.1.1]) by date.palm.cri.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09716 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:54:19 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from hra1.marc.cri.nz (unverified [161.29.1.5]) by mail1.marc.cri.nz (Dr Solomon's SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:52:20 +1300 Message-Id: Received: from HRA1/SpoolDir by hra1.marc.cri.nz (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 10:54:26 GMT+12 Received: from SpoolDir by HRA1 (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 10:54:19 GMT+12 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:54:10 GMT+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: mind college X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Bart Janssen" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Date sent: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:02:40 +1300 Subject: Re: mind college From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Send reply to: Michael.Woodhams@peace.com > > Neil Davies wrote: > > > Excuse my can of worms, but I really hate the way DQ colleges changes > > are going. > > Gosh, now even the Mind college has a generic "damage" spell. Spoilt I presume you are referring to the generic damage spell called disruption. Please note that Mind college has always had this useless 400 ep multiplier spell. It is NOT new. It has simply been considered by most mind mages to be ridiculously expensive in an otherwise stupidly expensive college. cheers Bart Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Bart Janssen Hort+Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland New Zealand ph 64 9 8154200 x 7279 fax 64 9 8154201 -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 11:34:09 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA15406; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:34:09 +1300 Received: from date.palm.cri.nz (date.palm.cri.nz [161.66.1.20]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA15396 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:34:05 +1300 Received: from mail1.marc.cri.nz (mail1.marc.cri.nz [161.29.1.1]) by date.palm.cri.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10470 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:29:31 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from hra1.marc.cri.nz (unverified [161.29.1.5]) by mail1.marc.cri.nz (Dr Solomon's SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:27:33 +1300 Message-Id: Received: from HRA1/SpoolDir by hra1.marc.cri.nz (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 11:29:40 GMT+12 Received: from SpoolDir by HRA1 (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 11:29:13 GMT+12 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:29:06 GMT+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Bart Janssen" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Hi Micheal I understand that your brief was to deal with overstrengthing and weapon breakage. However, I think if we limit ourself to simply minor modifications of the rules we should probably not bother and just have fun playing within the system we have. Assuming that we do want to bother.......then you end up with completely stupid discussions about whether A class weapons should get a bonus to damage........My opinion is that the only reason that discussion exists is because theoriginal rulle writers had no clue what having more strength than average really does and neither do most of the DQ GMs (being for the most part sedentary wimps). While I accept that to a certain extent there is some plus to damage involved with having extra strength (cf axe, softball bat, cricket bat, garden spade) the overwhelming advantage to overstrength come after the 4th or 5th blow when the stronger person can still hit the target and the weaker person has no hope any more. If you want numbers how about this For every point of strength above the minimum required to wield the weapon add +2 to bc and +1 to the chance of spec grev and endurance blows For every 10 points of strength above the minimum required to use the weapon add +1 to the damage (exception rapiers do not recive this bonus). Of course if you were trying to model reality then applying such extraordinary strength to a blow you would need to take a pass action in the next pulse to recover your balance. Come watch me working in the garden if you don't believe. As for weapon breakage. Personally I doubt that MD has much to do with avoiding weapon breakage as a said before PS has much more to do with it. Frankly bronze weapons are poked and should be useless after a few blows. But the rest of the weaponry should not. Simply delete weapon breakage for non-bronze weapons except in exceptional circumstances. If you do want weapon breakages then some differentiation between weapons is needed. eg hafted weapons break a lot, bows do not, daggers virtually never (they are too short), shortswords rarely break, toledo steel rapiers occassionally lose their tip but rarely break, greatswords bend occassionally but rarely break............ But that is too complicated so why have breakages at all???? To add flavour......my rapier broke, pass action draw H&half, continue.......hmmm lots of flavour there. Personally if you deleted weapon breakages and moved on to developing a skill vs skill combat system I'd vote for it (lots of times). cheers Bart Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Bart Janssen Hort+Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland New Zealand ph 64 9 8154200 x 7279 fax 64 9 8154201 -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 11:50:25 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA15448; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:50:25 +1300 Received: from date.palm.cri.nz (date.palm.cri.nz [161.66.1.20]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA15437 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:50:23 +1300 Received: from mail1.marc.cri.nz (mail1.marc.cri.nz [161.29.1.1]) by date.palm.cri.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10840 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:45:53 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from hra1.marc.cri.nz (unverified [161.29.1.5]) by mail1.marc.cri.nz (Dr Solomon's SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:43:56 +1300 Message-Id: Received: from HRA1/SpoolDir by hra1.marc.cri.nz (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 11:46:03 GMT+12 Received: from SpoolDir by HRA1 (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 11:45:39 GMT+12 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:45:30 GMT+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: mind college [ random comments ] X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Bart Janssen" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Date sent: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:54:15 +1300 Subject: Re: mind college [ random comments ] From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Send reply to: martin.dickson@peace.com > > amtennant@worley.co.nz wrote: > > > Mind Speech should be > > between the mind mage and ONE other person and should require the mind > > mage to not do anything else, close their eyes and hold their left hand > > against their temple. :) > > 'Course this would be a way to fix Telepathy too -- if you had to hold your > target at arms length and carefully position your fingers on their face before > sucking their mind out. > > Hey, neat idea for the Mind College -- make all their spell Range: Touch. :) You Bastard! You know Arthur can't reach high enough :). By the way the range for hypnotism should definately be reduced to 1 foot + 1 foot for each rank. (mind mage shouts across the canyon "you are feeling sleeeeepy, very sleeeeepy"). Disruption as a range touch spell with a 400 ep multiplier hah hah ESP as range touch????????? Limited precog (stupid spell by the way) range touch??????? Mind speech (why do we tolerate this spell) heh heh you can only speak while you hold hands :) Control Animal Hah, now Arthur can ride properly :) Control Person (oops sorry got to be PC and say entity) Can control the every action of an pers....oops entity that you are riding piggyback on. Maybe one way of dealing with telepathy is to separate the Mind Ream functions from the "detect surface thoughts of nearby mind functions". Range touch for the first and range 10 feet + 10 feet per rank for the second. That way you get the "I sense a mind over there Captain, she's sharpening her sword" still, but not the "500 feet over there is a guy who last Tuesday night at 11:45 pm woke up to have a piss and noticed that the picture on the wall was slightly uneven so he straightened it and happened to glance out the window and saw the asssassin climbing the neighbours roof and happened to notice the unique shoes which you can now locate" Oh and while were killing off colleges can we please eliminate those damn witches who steal all our best spells and as for those bloody namers with non-college spells........... cheers Bart Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Bart Janssen Hort+Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland New Zealand ph 64 9 8154200 x 7279 fax 64 9 8154201 -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:04:12 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15483; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:04:12 +1300 Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA15474 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:04:11 +1300 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id LAA02232; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:58:59 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:59:27 +1300 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC010945@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:59:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. [Ignoring the inflammatory and generally insulting tone] One of the most important considerations is game balance. If for example PS above the required amount gave +2%, who would ever bother with MD beyond the minimum required to wield your weapon. Every fighter would have 16 or 19MD (depending on whether or not they used a kite shield with their hand & a half) and as much PS as they could possibly get. No more light weight, quick fighters, they would all be well built, strong, wielders of heavy steel... Realistic - maybe, desirable - No. There are systems where your prowess as a fighter is measured by your strength stat, and they lead to successful fighters all looking the same. Currently MD is rarely above the minimum required but with the MD save for weapon breakage going and PS giving a better SC bonus it would become the least valuable stat. Ideally all stats should have equal value (to those that sully themselves by working out the numbers and aren't "real role-players" :} ), the only exception being MA for non-mages. Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next action. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bart Janssen [SMTP:bjanssen@hort.cri.nz] > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 12:29 AM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) > > For every point of strength above the minimum required to wield the > weapon add +2 to bc and +1 to the chance of spec grev and endurance > blows > For every 10 points of strength above the minimum required to use the > weapon add +1 to the damage (exception rapiers do not recive this > bonus). > > Of course if you were trying to model reality then applying such > extraordinary strength to a blow you would need to take a pass action > in > the next pulse to recover your balance. > > -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:07:24 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15515; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:24 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA15505 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:07:23 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id MAA27565; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:02:41 +1300 Message-ID: <361AA29F.9A3A4D90@peace.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:07:11 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: mind college [ random comments ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: martin.dickson@peace.com X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Bart Janssen wrote: > Oh and while were killing off colleges can we please eliminate those > damn witches who steal all our best spells... The Witches have Mind Cloak and Hypnotism. Hypnotism requires are fairly docile target, and has a very short range and limited effect, and Mind Cloak is a self only spell that protects one person from one spell in one one College in the whole game. If those are the Mind College's "best spells" then they are considerably worse off than even I had thought. :) Cheers, Martin -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:18:57 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15561; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:18:57 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (mail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA15552 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:18:57 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA086840907715653 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:14:14 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <010801bdf17e$f162cfc0$1564a8c0@mandos.ICONZ> Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:13:33 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for >overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your >next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next >action. Ignoring all the numbers flying around, this is one concept that I do like. I dunno how it would actually work in terms of slowing combat down as people refigure initiatives and suchlike but on paper the idea looks quite good. Mandos ./s -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:34:39 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15598; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:34:39 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (smtp.worley.co.nz [202.36.210.250]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA15587 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:34:37 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256696.0002C2D3 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:30:09 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256696.00013FA8.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:30:13 +1200 Subject: RE: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >One of the most important considerations is game balance. It's never stopped us before. :) [ Ow! Stop! I was kidding! Ow! ] >If for example PS above the required amount gave +2%, who would ever >bother with MD beyond the minimum required to wield your weapon. >Every fighter would have 16 or 19MD (depending on whether or not they >used a kite shield with their hand & a half) and as much PS as they >could possibly get. Like they do now, you mean? >No more light weight, quick fighters, they would all be well built, >strong, wielders of heavy steel... Realistic - maybe, desirable - No. >There are systems where your prowess as a fighter is measured by your >strength stat, and they lead to successful fighters all looking the >same. Strength is a non-agility fighters most valuable stat with the possible exception of EN or FT which keep you alive. >Currently MD is rarely above the minimum required but with the MD save >for weapon breakage going and PS giving a better SC bonus it would >become the least valuable stat. It's ALREADY the least valuable stat unless you're a Thief or ( god forbid ) and Alchemist. >Ideally all stats should have equal value (to those that sully >themselves by working out the numbers and aren't "real role-players" :} >), the only exception being MA for non-mages. Ho ho ho. The stats are wildyly varying in "value". Value comparison: PS: Great stat, even for mages. Affects carrying capacity, indirectly AG and TMR ( very important usually ) and therefore defence, weapons use, damage ( the hot topic ), being able to get out of close etc.. etc.. MD: Crap except in a few places. Sure it gives you SC, but with defences easily able to get really huge.... AG: Reasonable stat, mostly for TMR, unless you go hard out to get 26+ in which case it's pretty useful. MA: Obviously an extremely valuable stat for mages, crap for fighters. WP: EXTREMELY important stat. Affects fright rolls, magic resistance, concentration, stun recovery, consciousness checks, all the exciting things which get you killed if you fail them. EN: Obviously handy for staying alive when people whack you, and also generates initial FT. ( as an aside, why is 23 FT max for humans? ) >Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for >overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your >next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next >action. This isn't too bad. If you add 4 damage, 20 off your IV is quite significant, especially at lower levels. At high levels it doesn't matter so much if your IV goes down to 40 or 50, but that's fine, because high level characters need to be able to do extreme things. It works nicely because it stops low level people doing crazy things which they're not good enough to do yet. You could also put a reduction to defence in, which is quite reasonable because you're not going to be able to defend as well while your recovering from a massive swing. **** Bart's bit ***** > Of course if you were trying to model reality then applying such > extraordinary strength to a blow you would need to take a pass action > in > the next pulse to recover your balance. L8R, Adam. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:38:24 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15630; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:38:24 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (smtp.worley.co.nz [202.36.210.250]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA15618 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:38:15 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256696.0003156F ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:33:40 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256696.0002EFA2.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:33:47 +1200 Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >>Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for >>overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your >>next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next >>action. >Ignoring all the numbers flying around, this is one concept that I do like. >I dunno how it would actually work in terms of slowing combat down as people >refigure initiatives and suchlike but on paper the idea looks quite good. IV is one thing that stays vaguely the same usually. The only things that stuff it up are: Quickness: +10 - easy Getting shot full of arrows: still pretty easy Dropping/Picking up stuff: ugly, but the weight chart is fairly chunky. L8R, Adam. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:38:46 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15647; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:38:46 +1300 Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA15638 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:38:45 +1300 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id MAA13948; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:33:34 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:34:02 +1300 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC010947@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:34:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. If the benefits of overPS remain chunky (ie +x per 5 overPS) then it should be straight forward.. -5, -10 or -15... The copmplication I see is with quickened vs non-quickened where actual IV values are mostly irrelevant, but that's another problem. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mandos Mitchinson [SMTP:mandos@iconz.co.nz] > > >Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for > >overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on > your > >next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your > next > >action. > > Ignoring all the numbers flying around, this is one concept that I do > like. > I dunno how it would actually work in terms of slowing combat down as > people > refigure initiatives and suchlike but on paper the idea looks quite > good. > > Mandos > ./s > > > -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 12:48:04 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA15693; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:48:04 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA15682 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:48:01 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id MAA29179; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:43:16 +1300 Message-ID: <361AAC22.81CAC303@peace.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 12:47:46 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: martin.dickson@peace.com X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > >Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for > >overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your > >next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next > >action. > > Ignoring all the numbers flying around, this is one concept that I do like. > I dunno how it would actually work in terms of slowing combat down as people > refigure initiatives and suchlike but on paper the idea looks quite good. > With fencing (and by logical extension with "real" rapiers) is that if you put too much force into your strike, you can over-commit and spend precious time recovering, time during which you are vulnerable. Of course, and entire strike and counter-strike series would take considerably less tha a single 5 second "pulse", but within the context of a game where each strike is in a 5 second round it might be reasonable to make some carry over penalty for over-strengthing. As Mandos says, the idea looks sound, but it may be difficult to use. I dislike having to refigure stats during a combat -- but this would not happen al the time, only if overcommiting an attack to gain PS bonuses. - Martin -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 13:31:06 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA15758; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:31:06 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA15744 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:31:04 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p4-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.99.132]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05206 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:26:21 +1300 Message-Id: <199810070026.NAA05206@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:21:27 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: Martin Dickson > Of course, and entire strike and counter-strike series would take considerably > less tha a single 5 second "pulse", but within the context of a game where each > strike is in a 5 second round it might be reasonable to make some carry over > penalty for over-strengthing. > > As Mandos says, the idea looks sound, but it may be difficult to use. I dislike > having to refigure stats during a combat -- but this would not happen al the > time, only if overcommiting an attack to gain PS bonuses. It may not be much of a problem if the player has to work it out...I like Bart's suggestion, really, it goes some way to offsetting the SC vs Def problem, and if the extra damage subtracts from initiative, it gives real value to the ludicrously high initiative values you see. I would like to see a five point bonus to SC for every point of overPS damage, and a five point penalty to initiative in the next pulse... But, I think I'd want to see it tested, first. Jim... -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 13:31:06 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA15765; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:31:06 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA15745 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:31:05 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p4-max11.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.99.132]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05212 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:26:23 +1300 Message-Id: <199810070026.NAA05212@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:24:22 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: Martin Dickson > As Mandos says, the idea looks sound, but it may be difficult to use. I dislike > having to refigure stats during a combat -- but this would not happen al the > time, only if overcommiting an attack to gain PS bonuses. The player gets to calculate these things...If they haven't worked it out properly, have them lose initiative. They soon become polished with their calculations when they see some real benefit in knowing them. Jim. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 13:57:07 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA15822; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:57:07 +1300 Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA15811 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:57:06 +1300 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id NAA08006; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:51:53 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:52:21 +1300 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC010948@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 13:52:20 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Considering the targets willpower is reasonable but it's also a pain in the arse. The "Molecular" portion of the spell names and descriptions was removed to help them feel less scientific. Not being able to transform people into pillars of salt or statues with Rearrangement was raised as undesirable at the gods meeting. Though perhaps state can only be changed on doubles/triples. So normally you could change someone into a statue, pillar of salt, or conical pile of horse manure, but not a puddle of water (yes I know that people are 70% water but they look and act solid which is far more important). New Option: The spell can change one of the following: Mass, State, or Specific Form. A double can change two of these, a triple can change three. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rose, Chris [SMTP:Chris.Rose@airnz.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 1:32 PM > To: 'Stephen Martin'; 'salient@kccs.co.nz'; 'avette@clear.net.nz' > Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 > > So there's now a bonus for the adepts willpower above 15, but no minus > for > the targets willpower? The target's willpower always seemed a > reasonable > thing to include in the base chance calculations? > > T-3 Sense Danger > I agree with Brent that extending the duration is just a pain for the > GM. > What would be nice is an increased chance of detecting the source of > the > danger (the itty bitty dagger drawn by the unremarkable peasant woman, > not > the glowing staff carried by the undead, shape changing Dragon) and/or > possibly a "time-out" like the military scientists get, in which to > react to > the danger - that is ask the GM some questions to clarify the current > situation and decide what to do next. > > G-5 Hypnotism > The clarification should read > This spell allows the subject to remember otherwise forgotten details, > if > the adept asks appropriate questions. > > S-1 Disruption (Why not Molecular Disruption?) > Should read > (substantial rather than insubstantial form) > rather than > (substantial rather than insubstantial) form > > S-6 Phantasm > Should include something like: > As the phantasm is a conjured creature it is not physically > constrained and > can pursue it's target through the air or through solid objects. > > S-7 Rearrangement (Why not Molecular Rearrangement?) > I don't see why you can't transform living beings (assuming they fail > to > resist) into inanimate objects. One "common" use for the spell is to > disguise party members as pieces of furniture. > I think it will also increase the fatality of the spell, as adepts > will be > more likely to turn creatures into some creature that can't survive > the > current environment, if they have to be a creature not an object. > > S-9 Duration should be immediate (No more bow wave - Sob!) > A solid barrier will only stop something if it directly opposes the > direction of travel. If an object strikes a wall at 90 degrees to it's > direction of travel it would stop. If the wall is at 45 degrees I > would > expect the object would bounce / scrape along it to the limit of the > spells > range. The description should read something like: > The Adept creates a storm of force emanating from them which hurls any > object or entity away from them at bone-breaking speed until out of > the > range of the spell. The object or entity will bounce off, or scrape > along, > solid barriers they have the misfortune to encounter as they travel, > unless > the barrier directly opposes their direction of travel. For instance, > a wall > at 45 degrees to the direction of travel will be scraped along while a > wall > at 90 degrees would stop the object or entity. Anything which fails to > resist suffers [D - 5] (+ 1 / foot travelled) damage. This damage is > physical damage, hence is reduced by armour, and is inflicted as a > single > hit. > > > > Regards > Chris Rose > > -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 14:17:07 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA15862; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:17:07 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (smtp.worley.co.nz [202.36.210.250]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id OAA15851 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:17:05 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256696.000C26B8 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:12:43 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256696.000BC644.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:12:45 +1200 Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Why the hell do Mind Mages even have "Transmogrification" or whatever you want to call it? I suppose you could argue the "mind over matter" thing, but come on.... I always thought it was a rediculous, hard to play/gm spell and should be axed along with Undetectability, TK Rage ( in the durational form ) and Limited Precog all of wihch are just pain-in-the-ass spells. L8R, Adam. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:03:22 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA15907; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:03:22 +1300 Received: from fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (fep2-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.2]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA15897 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:03:22 +1300 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141]) by fep2-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.9) with ESMTP id OAA28720; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:58:09 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:58:36 +1300 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC01094A@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:58:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. So we remove Limited Precog, Mol Rec and Mol Transmutation ('cos it's stupidly expensive, and pointless - does anyone actually have it ranked??) Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell that practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. And we're left with a smaller, faster, better college. All in favour, raise your chainsaws... :) > -----Original Message----- > From: amtennant@worley.co.nz [SMTP:amtennant@worley.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:13 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 > > Why the hell do Mind Mages even have "Transmogrification" or whatever > you > want > to call it? > > I suppose you could argue the "mind over matter" thing, but come > on.... > > > > I always thought it was a rediculous, hard to play/gm spell and should > be > axed along > with Undetectability, TK Rage ( in the durational form ) and Limited > Precog > all of wihch > are just pain-in-the-ass spells. > > > > L8R, > Adam. > -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:06:44 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA15939; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:06:44 +1300 Received: from date.palm.cri.nz (date.palm.cri.nz [161.66.1.20]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA15928 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:06:43 +1300 Received: from mail1.marc.cri.nz (mail1.marc.cri.nz [161.29.1.1]) by date.palm.cri.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14515 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:02:12 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from hra1.marc.cri.nz (unverified [161.29.1.5]) by mail1.marc.cri.nz (Dr Solomon's SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:00:11 +1300 Message-Id: Received: from HRA1/SpoolDir by hra1.marc.cri.nz (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 15:02:19 GMT+12 Received: from SpoolDir by HRA1 (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 15:01:57 GMT+12 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:01:55 GMT+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: replies not going to group X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Bart Janssen" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. It appears that the default reply is now going to the sender rather than the group. Can people please resend replies that they meant to send to the group. Because I seem to be seeing only parts of some exchanges and this is confusing. Also can the group admin please change the reply-to default back again. Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Bart Janssen Hort+Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland New Zealand ph 64 9 8154200 x 7279 fax 64 9 8154201 -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:26:37 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA15984; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:26:37 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (smtp.worley.co.nz [202.36.210.250]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id PAA15975 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:26:36 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256696.00123961 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:19:03 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256696.0011C818.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:22:05 +1200 Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >So we remove Limited Precog, Mol Rec and Mol Transmutation ('cos it's >stupidly expensive, and pointless - does anyone actually have it >ranked??) >Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell that >practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). >Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. >Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. >And we're left with a smaller, faster, better college. All in favour, >raise your chainsaws... :) VRRRRMMMMMMM!!!! :) As for Force Shield, you could replace it with something like a telekinetic shield which deflects missile weapons to some degree. That sort of thing is a common kind of mind power in various games. e.g. a 3% + 3%/Rank of deflecting each missile fired at the adept or somesuch. I don't have a problem with "Disruption". That's a standard telekinetic style attack and well within the Mind college brief. Resist for Half spells are ALWAYS useful, especially in high games. There's massive scope for Mind College stuff. Telekinetics, Pyrokines, Psychic Vampires, Puppet Masters etc.... We just have to decide the flavour we want, or a mixture. L8R, Adam. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:30:32 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA16022; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:30:32 +1300 Received: from date.palm.cri.nz (date.palm.cri.nz [161.66.1.20]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA16012 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:30:31 +1300 Received: from mail1.marc.cri.nz (mail1.marc.cri.nz [161.29.1.1]) by date.palm.cri.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA14927 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:25:56 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from hra1.marc.cri.nz (unverified [161.29.1.5]) by mail1.marc.cri.nz (Dr Solomon's SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:23:59 +1300 Message-Id: Received: from HRA1/SpoolDir by hra1.marc.cri.nz (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 15:26:07 GMT+12 Received: from SpoolDir by HRA1 (Mercury 1.31); 7 Oct 98 15:26:04 GMT+12 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:26:03 GMT+1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Bart Janssen" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Subject: RE: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date sent: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:59:25 +1300 From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Send reply to: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > [Ignoring the inflammatory and generally insulting tone] Hmmm it wasn't really meant as insulting, inflamatory maybe but insulting no. I was just reacting to what I felt was an assumption that hadn't really been tested as true. Sorry > One of the most important considerations is game balance. I guess the question is, is stat balance the same as game balance? As Adam pointed out there are already several reasons why the stats are unbalanced. I agree that the ideas I was raising, value PS more than MD, but I'm not certain this is a bad thing. If you look at mages vs fighters (a very real game balance issue) fighters generally have higher PS by a considerable margin but MDs are similar. I don't know for certain but my feeling is that giving advantages to high PS would help rather than hinder that balance problem. Of course then you still have the problem of strength of stone. > If for example PS above the required amount gave +2%, who would ever > bother with MD beyond the minimum required to wield your weapon. > Every fighter would have 16 or 19MD (depending on whether or not they > used a kite shield with their hand & a half) and as much PS as they > could possibly get. Already the case. except for some wierdo fighters like Ambar and thieves like Arthur. Note that I have every reason to be in favour of giving advantages to high MD. How about giving a bonus for excess MD?????? Say + 2% to End chance per point over minimum :). > No more light weight, quick fighters, they would all be well built, > strong, wielders of heavy steel... Realistic - maybe, desirable - No. > There are systems where your prowess as a fighter is measured by your > strength stat, and they lead to successful fighters all looking the > same. They've already gone as soon as the change to 26AG was made > Currently MD is rarely above the minimum required but with the MD save > for weapon breakage going and PS giving a better SC bonus it would > become the least valuable stat. So add some value to MD. How about casting initiative being based on MD :)))) It makes sense and it would finally force mages into the initiative scheme. Of course mages would need to work out thier casting initiative, but with some help from thier GM I'm sure they could manage :))))) > Ideally all stats should have equal value (to those that sully > themselves by working out the numbers and aren't "real role-players" :} > ), the only exception being MA for non-mages. Why? Seriously why. I am not sure I can think of a reason why all stats should be equal value other than people automatically choosing to minimise them. But is that really such a problem. I don't know maybe it is. > > Bart's comment gives me an idea for a possible balancing point for > overPS, the amount of excess PS you use is a penalty to your IV on your > next action, if that pushes your IV to 0 or less then you lose your next > action. Cool idea. Excellent way of modeling the kind of effect you actually see in combat (be it with bamboo roots or goblins). cheers Bart Saying Windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've witnessed the second coming. -- Guy Kawasaki Bart Janssen Hort+Research Private Bag 92169 Auckland New Zealand ph 64 9 8154200 x 7279 fax 64 9 8154201 -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:35:24 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA16053; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:35:24 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id PAA16043 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:35:22 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id PAA08529; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:30:37 +1300 Message-ID: <361AD35C.2223E69E@peace.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:35:08 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: martin.dickson@peace.com X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. amtennant@worley.co.nz wrote: > Why the hell do Mind Mages even have "Transmogrification" or whatever you > want > to call it? > > I suppose you could argue the "mind over matter" thing, but come on.... > > > > I always thought it was a rediculous, hard to play/gm spell and should be > axed along > with Undetectability, TK Rage ( in the durational form ) and Limited Precog > all of wihch > are just pain-in-the-ass spells. > > At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam -- the root problem with the Mind College (as with a couple of the other Thaumaturgies) is that no-one seems able to define "what it _should_ do". What are "Mind Mages"? From what genre/literary root do their powers stem? Are the appropriate in a College system mostly built around elements/flavours/themes, or are the just another "way of doing magic" without a specific focus? If their whole raison d'etre comes down to: "they do things by thinking about it", what is there that flows from this as their logical set of magical abilites? If their abilites are intended to mirror reputed psychic/mental powers, that would explain ESP, TK, Precognition, etc... but where does that leave Levitation, Pyrokinesis and Channelling the spirits of the dead? Well, they can't have those because it steps on the toes of the E&Es, the Fire Mages and the Necromancers. This is because psychic powers are not a kind of magic, but a rationale for, or way or performing "miraculous" acts. Psi-power or "psionics" is simply a modern or science fiction way of saying "magic". So, Mind Mages do magic. What kind? Errr... the magic kind. :) OK... rather than just criticise, I will try an offer something constructive. If it was me revising the Mind College, and I was given a free hand -- with the proviso that the College stay in the game... I would probably go for an Eastern ascetic/Jedi Master-like flavour. Very inward focused. Remove anything showy -- it seems quite out of character to turn people into "butterballs on hills" or puddles. It is a flavour that has little in the way of visible effects though they would keep TK If their casting remains that, spell casting, then no hand waving and shouting, lots of deep meaningful looks and concentration. Abilites would be generally line-of-sight, you can only scare to death (phantasm) someone you can see, ditto Telepathy, no reading minds of people who are not in sight. No damage spell -- though one could argue for a damage enhancement ability "ki" type power -- the ability to smash through wood/ice/stone with your bare hands. Not a lot of mind over matter though -- more mind over body, (resist pain, temperature, breath control, heart control, contortion) or mind vs. mind powers (hypnosis, control, walking unseen, "These are not the golems you are looking for"). I'm not sure how well the DQ spells casting system (prepare 5 seconds, cast 5 seconds) would work with this flavour-wise... but providing that they went into deep concentration and then did something, it could look ok. The important thing is to settle firmly on a theme/flavour and stick with it. Cheers, Martin -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 15:54:16 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA16092; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:54:16 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (mail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA16083 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:54:15 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA060320907728571 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:49:31 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <01f501bdf19d$03c2cee0$1564a8c0@mandos.ICONZ> Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:48:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. >Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell that >practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). I think we should keep Force Shield. Why get rid of something just because someone else has a better version. If that is the case just pick all the best spells and make us all one big happy collage. >Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. I would prefer to see Mind Mage Invis rewritten rather than replace it with a spell that everyone else already has. Let's try to keep some difference between collages, at least a little bit. >Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. Good idea :-) Mandos /s -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 16:29:56 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA16144; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:29:56 +1300 Received: from host02.net.voyager.co.nz (root@host02.net.voyager.co.nz [203.21.30.125]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA16134 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:29:55 +1300 Received: from aklnt1.cogita.co.nz ([203.98.2.165]) by host02.net.voyager.co.nz (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA29630 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:25:11 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by cogita.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:28:59 +1200 Message-ID: <31E705B3DD24D111B08600A024A3E58B31B757@cogita.co.nz> Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:28:57 +1200 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain From: Neil Davies To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Why? Because it doesn't belong! Force shield is an answer to the winge "Gee, I want a defence spell - it's not fair - other people do!)" It makes no sense at all. I think the suggested "chainsaw cuts" are a GREAT idea! all of a sudden we have a college that makes sense again. I am OK for TK and mind mage invis to still be in ther, as to me they do still make some sense with the "mind mage theme", and I'm not too concerned with picky "metaphysical theoriy of spell X doesn't quite match spell Y". Anyway, where was I.... Neil. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mandos Mitchinson [SMTP:mandos@iconz.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 4:49 AM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 > > > >Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell > that > >practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). > > I think we should keep Force Shield. Why get rid of something just > because > someone else has a better version. If that is the case just pick all > the > best spells and make us all one big happy collage. > > >Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. > > I would prefer to see Mind Mage Invis rewritten rather than replace it > with > a spell that everyone else already has. Let's try to keep some > difference > between collages, at least a little bit. > > >Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. > > > Good idea :-) > > Mandos > /s > > > -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 17:00:28 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA16194; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:00:28 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id RAA16185 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:00:28 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id QAA14273; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:55:45 +1300 Orig-Sender: Michael.Woodhams@peace.com Message-ID: <361AE640.729D9077@peace.co.nz> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:55:45 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: Michael.Woodhams@peace.com X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Stephen Martin wrote: > So we remove Limited Precog, Mol Rec and Mol Transmutation ('cos it's > stupidly expensive, and pointless - does anyone actually have it > ranked??) > Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell that > practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). > Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. > Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. This is getting a bit unfair to Mind Mages - in particular, you are removing a very good, unique spell (Undetectability) for the most common spell in the guild - Walk Unseen. To maintain the uniqueness of the Mind Mage college and to avoid them feeling picked on, you should take Walk Unseen away from everyone else at the same time. Then EVERYONE can feel picked on. Michael W. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 23:14:45 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id XAA16515; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:45 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA16505 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:44 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p37-max2.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.97.101]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29515 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:09:56 +1300 Message-Id: <199810071009.XAA29515@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:23:32 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: Stephen Martin > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 > Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 1:52 PM > > > Considering the targets willpower is reasonable but it's also a pain in > the arse. > > The "Molecular" portion of the spell names and descriptions was removed > to help them feel less scientific. > > Not being able to transform people into pillars of salt or statues with > Rearrangement was raised as undesirable at the gods meeting. Though > perhaps state can only be changed on doubles/triples. So normally you > could change someone into a statue, pillar of salt, or conical pile of > horse manure, but not a puddle of water (yes I know that people are 70% > water but they look and act solid which is far more important). > New Option: The spell can change one of the following: Mass, State, or > Specific Form. A double can change two of these, a triple can change > three. I'm at a loss to see how this is a move away from 'tech' attitudes, and a move towards 'fantasy' flavoured magic...It's just as tech as a molecule, really... Jim. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 23:14:50 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id XAA16542; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:50 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA16532 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:48 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p37-max2.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.97.101]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29544 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:10:02 +1300 Message-Id: <199810071010.XAA29544@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: PS and Weapons (was... lateral thought) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:04:10 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: Bart Janssen > > > Ideally all stats should have equal value (to those that sully > > themselves by working out the numbers and aren't "real role-players" :} > > ), the only exception being MA for non-mages. > > Why? Seriously why. I am not sure I can think of a reason why all > stats should be equal value other than people automatically choosing to > minimise them. But is that really such a problem. I don't know maybe > it is. Because it's nice to have a wide variety of characters...If some stats are more important, then what happens is the high value stats are always at least respectable...I bring your attention to the infamous 3 Orcateers, who, if you added all their WPs up, would be less than Ughbash's...They lasted perhaps 6 games...Then they just faded away.... It's better to have stats of equal value, because this gives the player an opportunity to play the kind of character they want, with limitations that are commensurate with the advantages...But, if you take a high MD, low AG character, the advantages don't balance the limitations...So, as a result, you see fewer characters who take that option. That has narrowed the range of playable characters. > Jim. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 23:14:47 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id XAA16529; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:47 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA16519 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:46 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p37-max2.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.97.101]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29529 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:10:00 +1300 Message-Id: <199810071010.XAA29529@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:49:43 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: Stephen Martin > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Mind College - Version 1.2 > Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 2:58 PM > > > So we remove Limited Precog, Mol Rec and Mol Transmutation ('cos it's > stupidly expensive, and pointless - does anyone actually have it > ranked??) > Probably get rid of Force Shield as well (poor mans defence spell that > practically no-one bothers with and doesn't need to be here). > Swap Undetectability for Walk Unseen. > Fix TK Rage and Telepathy. > > And we're left with a smaller, faster, better college. All in favour, > raise your chainsaws... :) I like those spells, actually, except Telepathy, Undetectability and TK Rage, as they stand...I've always felt that Force Shield was an underrated spell, because it's the only defence spell that isn't obvious...And you don't need armour to cast it on. Mol Rec is a high EM spell, but it is a single target half damage spell, that cannot be traced back to its source, and doesn't need to consider impediments between the caster and the target, requiring only a clear sight line to the target....Admittedly it doesn't work against the Forces of Darkness too well, but there are a lot of critters it works against just fine. Essentially, you are paying 100 EM for it's unseeability, and it's penetration...It can be a most disturbing development indeed, when you're not used to it, to be tracked back to your place or righteous seclusion by the aforesaid Forces of Darkness.... Jim. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 7 23:14:53 1998 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id XAA16561; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:53 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (root@tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA16544 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:14:51 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p37-max2.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.97.101]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29521 ; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:09:58 +1300 Message-Id: <199810071009.XAA29521@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Mind College - Version 1.2 Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:38:20 +1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. ---------- > From: amtennant@worley.co.nz > Why the hell do Mind Mages even have "Transmogrification" or whatever you > want > to call it? > > I suppose you could argue the "mind over matter" thing, but come on.... > > > > I always thought it was a rediculous, hard to play/gm spell and should be > axed along > with Undetectability, TK Rage ( in the durational form ) and Limited Precog I don't mind Limited Precog...It gives the DM the initiative on how much information the party gets, and the quality thereof...I do mind Telepathy, and there is no way that I would allow Mind Speech to allow the transfer of sensory data, whatever the Rank of the spell. I do have a problem with Undetectability, not merely as a DM, but also as a player...Sinn Fein once told me it was a useless spell, because the really tough NPC's seemed to see through it easier than Witchsighted individuals...And as a DM, I have run it as the rules suggest several times, and I'm not going to do that again. It was too boring, and I don't DM to experience tedium...I roleplay or DM to get away from that sort of thing. > all of wihch > are just pain-in-the-ass spells. > > I don't mind the spell, really. I think that as played it seems fine enough...The only real thing that needs to be done to it is give it a volume/Rank equation. You still have to decide whether or not it will affect a target if it exceeds...My own feeling is that if you give it a volume increment per Rank, then it should have no effect on something that exceeds that volume. At Rank 20, it should be able to affect any single, unaffixed target, of whatever size, that isn't actually a terrain feature... I do hate all the names I've heard so far, though, including the present one...So, let's get rid of it, just to appease my aesthetic sense. Jim. -- See message headers to unsubscribe from --