After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive a
Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.

So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
propose that we add the following to Artisan:

Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
and care of draft animals.

Merchant
A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As such
they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At rank 5
a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill
already.

Cheers, Stephen.


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There are several illusionists with cart driving. They all rank it as an
adventuring skill like horsemanship/climbing/etc (EM 125). I'm not sure
whether other colleges can learn the skill.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 10:48 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive a
Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.

So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
propose that we add the following to Artisan:

Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
and care of draft animals.

Merchant
A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As such
they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At rank 5
a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill
already.

Cheers, Stephen.


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Just make it a function of horsemanship. I would have thought that an
artisan cart driver would be something like a teamster, which is to say,
someone who makes a living by travelling with loads on a cart, etc.

If it's cart driving while you're adventuring, then I would have thought
that you wouldn't get much change out of artisan wagon driving.

I mean, your teamster type is hardly going to ever want to put his cart up
on two wheels while careening along an aqueduct, is he?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Martin" <stephenm@qed.co.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:47 AM
Subject: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


> After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive
a
> Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.
>
> So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
> propose that we add the following to Artisan:
>
> Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
> and care of draft animals.
>
> Merchant
> A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As such
> they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At rank
5
> a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill
> already.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Having also spent months behind the reins of carts, carriages and eight 
reindeer sleighs Kayseri has ranked 'Team Driving' using the Horsemanship 
rules.
No GM has had any problems with this. 
I've been also using the driving limitation of  'up to rank number of 
horses' or twice that for oxen

Rosemary





Stephen Martin <stephenm@qed.co.nz>
Sent by: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz
12/03/2002 23:47
Please respond to dq

 
        To:     dq@dq.sf.org.nz
        cc: 
        Subject:        [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive 
a
Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.

So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
propose that we add the following to Artisan:

Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
and care of draft animals.

Merchant
A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As such
they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At rank 
5
a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill
already.

Cheers, Stephen.


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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Having also spent months behind the reins of carts, carriages and eight reindeer sleighs Kayseri has ranked 'Team Driving' using the Horsemanship rules.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">No GM has had any problems with this. &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I've been also using the driving limitation of &nbsp;'up to rank number of horses' or twice that for oxen</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Rosemary</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Stephen Martin &lt;stephenm@qed.co.nz&gt;</b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">12/03/2002 23:47</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to dq</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;[dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive a<br>
Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.<br>
<br>
So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I<br>
propose that we add the following to Artisan:<br>
<br>
Wagoneer &nbsp;Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling<br>
and care of draft animals.<br>
<br>
Merchant<br>
A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods. &nbsp;As such<br>
they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer. &nbsp;At rank 5<br>
a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill<br>
already.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Stephen.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
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Stephen Martin wrote:

>So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
>propose that we add the following to Artisan:
>
>Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
>and care of draft animals.
>
Artisan is not ideal for this, being more intended for people who create 
-- or at the least gather -- goods or perform some service that 
"creates" an end product (such as a Barber).  The modifiers an Artisan 
can affect are either appropriate stats (making a Ball Gown that gives 
+1 PB) or yield (catching 50% extra fish).

I agree that Horsemanship or a cloned "Wagoneering" skill is the right 
approach.  I'd suggest that same principle would be used for Sled 
Driving, or Skiing, or Skating... etc.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

> >So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
> >propose that we add the following to Artisan:
> >
> >Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
> >and care of draft animals.
> >
> Artisan is not ideal for this, being more intended for people who create
> -- or at the least gather -- goods or perform some service that
> "creates" an end product (such as a Barber).  The modifiers an Artisan
> can affect are either appropriate stats (making a Ball Gown that gives
> +1 PB) or yield (catching 50% extra fish).
>
> I agree that Horsemanship or a cloned "Wagoneering" skill is the right
> approach.  I'd suggest that same principle would be used for Sled
> Driving, or Skiing, or Skating... etc.

I would go for an approach similar to literacy. Pay 1000 EP and spend a week
and you can drive a cart at your rank in horsemanship.

Nice and simple.

Mandos
/s


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> 
> 
> There are several illusionists with cart driving. They all 
> rank it as an
> adventuring skill like horsemanship/climbing/etc (EM 125). 
> I'm not sure
> whether other colleges can learn the skill.
> 

Wicca - that's crystal clear <g>. Although I think both are limited to 2
horses/ponies max?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
> 
> 
> After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn 
> how to drive a
> Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.
> 
> So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
> propose that we add the following to Artisan:
> 

Another approach would be a one-off additional EP (like ropes to climbing)
to learn how to set up the extra straps and stuff (whatever the proper name
is).

> Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon 
> maintenance, handling
> and care of draft animals.
> 
> Merchant
> A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing 
> goods.  As such
> they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: 
> Wagoneer.  At rank 5

Surely a task for an apprentice?

> a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not 
> have the skill
> already.
> 


> Cheers, Stephen.
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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The catch with making it part of Horsemanship is that some characters
who would not be seen dead on a horse are quite happy driving a wagon
team. There is a cross-over in the areas of animal care and handling but
otherwise the skills involved in sitting on a wagon are quite different
to galloping into battle on a war-horse.=20

The adventuring version of cart-driver will, at higher levels, as a
matter of course  involve the more colourful aspects of the art, more
akin to the "offensive driving" courses that diplomatic protection
drivers go through than your run of the mill teamster.

I prefer it as a separate Artisan skill.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Arona [mailto:jimarona@ihug.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 11:31
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


Just make it a function of horsemanship. I would have thought that an
artisan cart driver would be something like a teamster, which is to say,
someone who makes a living by travelling with loads on a cart, etc.

If it's cart driving while you're adventuring, then I would have thought
that you wouldn't get much change out of artisan wagon driving.

I mean, your teamster type is hardly going to ever want to put his cart
up
on two wheels while careening along an aqueduct, is he?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Martin" <stephenm@qed.co.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:47 AM
Subject: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


> After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to
drive
a
> Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.
>
> So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
> propose that we add the following to Artisan:
>
> Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance,
handling
> and care of draft animals.
>
> Merchant
> A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As
such
> they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At
rank
5
> a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the
skill
> already.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Ahh Excellent, I'll pick up the Illusion College so I can drive a wagon.  I
knew there must be some reason why people became Illusionists.

Teamster is the word I was looking for rather than Wagoneer for the Artisan
skill - Thanks Jim.

Based on the responses, my new proposal is that we add an adventuring skill
called (Team Driving / Carting / Charioteering or something along those
lines) which is the basic skills of directing animals to pull a
cart/wagon/sleigh/chariot.  It's rank and base chance are used to determine
your ability to do things no sane Teamster would dream of.
We also add Artisan: Teamster which is someone who trundles up and down
roads with one or more carts/wagons keeping villages and bandits properly
supplied.  Probably with the tie-in to merchant as that seems appropriate.
The yield of the skill is either the amount that can be carted or how fast
it can be moved.

I'd prefer it is a seperate skill from horsemanship for several reasons:
1) Consistency for characters that have already ranked it as a seperate
skill.
2) So not every adventurer can automatically drive a cart through aqueducts.
3) And not every master carter is automatically a master horseman.


Cheers, Stephen.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 10:53 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


There are several illusionists with cart driving. They all rank it as an
adventuring skill like horsemanship/climbing/etc (EM 125). I'm not sure
whether other colleges can learn the skill.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 10:48 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


After some unfortunate recent experiences I decided to learn how to drive a
Cart/Wagon, but I couldn't find anything appropriate in the rules.

So unless someone knows of an existing rule/skill that covers this, I
propose that we add the following to Artisan:

Wagoneer  Driving a cart or wagon, basic cart/wagon maintenance, handling
and care of draft animals.

Merchant
A merchant is familiar with methods of moving and storing goods.  As such
they get a 25% discount if they choose to rank Artisan: Wagoneer.  At rank 5
a Merchant gains rank 0 in Artisan: Wagoneer if they do not have the skill
already.

Cheers, Stephen.


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Based on the responses, my new proposal is that we add an adventuring 
skill
called (Team Driving / Carting / Charioteering or something along those
lines) which is the basic skills of directing animals to pull a
cart/wagon/sleigh/chariot.  It's rank and base chance are used to 
determine
your ability to do things no sane Teamster would dream of.
We also add Artisan: Teamster which is someone who trundles up and down
roads with one or more carts/wagons keeping villages and bandits properly
supplied.  Probably with the tie-in to merchant as that seems appropriate.
The yield of the skill is either the amount that can be carted or how fast
it can be moved.

I'd prefer it is a seperate skill from horsemanship for several reasons:
1) Consistency for characters that have already ranked it as a seperate
skill.
2) So not every adventurer can automatically drive a cart through 
aqueducts.
3) And not every master carter is automatically a master horseman.


This could be added as a paragraph to the end of horsemanship, ie that you 
can rank this as driving instead of riding and is treated as a separate 
adventuring skill.
Rose (in favour of simple changes where possible)


Cheers, Stephen.



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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Based on the responses, my new proposal is that we add an adventuring skill<br>
called (Team Driving / Carting / Charioteering or something along those<br>
lines) which is the basic skills of directing animals to pull a<br>
cart/wagon/sleigh/chariot. &nbsp;It's rank and base chance are used to determine<br>
your ability to do things no sane Teamster would dream of.<br>
We also add Artisan: Teamster which is someone who trundles up and down<br>
roads with one or more carts/wagons keeping villages and bandits properly<br>
supplied. &nbsp;Probably with the tie-in to merchant as that seems appropriate.<br>
The yield of the skill is either the amount that can be carted or how fast<br>
it can be moved.<br>
<br>
I'd prefer it is a seperate skill from horsemanship for several reasons:<br>
1) Consistency for characters that have already ranked it as a seperate<br>
skill.<br>
2) So not every adventurer can automatically drive a cart through aqueducts.<br>
3) And not every master carter is automatically a master horseman.<br>
<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">This could be added as a paragraph to the end of horsemanship, ie that you can rank this as driving instead of riding and is treated as a separate adventuring skill.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif">Rose (in favour of simple changes where possible)</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Cheers, Stephen.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</font>
<br>
<br>
--=_alternative 007C2EF5CC256B79_=--


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Stephen Martin wrote:

>Based on the responses, my new proposal is that we add an adventuring skill
>called (Team Driving / Carting / Charioteering or something along those
>lines) which is the basic skills of directing animals to pull a
>cart/wagon/sleigh/chariot.
>
The principle seems sound.  Horsemanship also allows one to ride a camel 
(at a suitable modifier), so a single skill for controlling carts, 
chariots, sleds, etc seems consistent -- and probably about the level of 
granularity that's desirable.  One skill for riding things (whatever 
they may be), one for driving things (ditto).

As you say, it's also nicer if not every carter is a master rider, and 
vice versa.  When I created a far northern dwarf many years ago the GM 
suggested sled driving (as an alternate to riding) to be ranked the same 
way, but conferring no ability to ride horses.  Said dwarf still doesn't 
know one end of a horse from the other, but give him a sled and a dog 
team and he's off.  :-)

A third variant that might exist is Skiing, Ice Skating, etc... 
basically moving by strapping things onto your feet.  I don't know 
offhand of any characters who Ski or Skate but they are reasonable 
skills for the Alusian social/tech level.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

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_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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Giving everyone it at rank 0 automatically seems a bit off. How about 200 EP
and two weeks? (Area Knowledge is 500 and four)
 
Also, how long does it take to learn to use ropes and claws? Does it happen
instantaneously if you spend the extra EP while taking an additional rank of
climbing? How about the skills that let you get extra specialities etc past
rk10?



This could be added as a paragraph to the end of horsemanship, ie that you
can rank this as driving instead of riding and is treated as a separate
adventuring skill. 
Rose (in favour of simple changes where possible)


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If the skill is being able to drive up to Rank or Rank * 2 animals then Rank
0 confers no particular ability.  Also, using horsemanship base chances
which are very dependent on rank it means that an adventurer can have a go
at driving a cart but if anything unusual happens then they have a very
small chance of retaining control.
I like the simplicity of Rosemary's proposed addendum to Horsemanship.

-----Original Message-----
From: Errol Cavit [mailto:ecavit@tranzrail.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 11:59 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?


Giving everyone it at rank 0 automatically seems a bit off. How about 200 EP
and two weeks? (Area Knowledge is 500 and four)
 
Also, how long does it take to learn to use ropes and claws? Does it happen
instantaneously if you spend the extra EP while taking an additional rank of
climbing? How about the skills that let you get extra specialities etc past
rk10?



This could be added as a paragraph to the end of horsemanship, ie that you
can rank this as driving instead of riding and is treated as a separate
adventuring skill. 
Rose (in favour of simple changes where possible)


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Time for extra specialities are covered in troubadour, ranger, philosopher,
mil sci, mechanician, courtier.

Not in weaponsmith, merchant, beastmaster, climbing, armourer.

Most of the extra time is 2 weeks each. If we wanted to, we could add 2 (or
4) weeks to each of the areas that don't cover it. However, there are not a
lot of rk 10 merchants...

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Errol Cavit [mailto:ecavit@tranzrail.co.nz]
 
Also, how long does it take to learn to use ropes and claws? Does it happen
instantaneously if you spend the extra EP while taking an additional rank of
climbing? How about the skills that let you get extra specialities etc past
rk10?


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Me too :-)


Seriously, I also have a character who has Dog Sled Driving (which I rank as 
Horsemanship). Though at the moment he has a small problem with dogs, but hey.

I'm all for the simple paragraph at the end of Horsemanship to cover Driving 
situations, particular to the animal type in team (I think horse and cart is 
somewhat different from Ox and cart, though I will wup upside the head any 
(large) character who attempts to have Driving (Mouse) {except perhaps if 
they've been to Phil's Giant world}, and don't you dare try and rank Driving 
(Dark Horse Rampant) unless you're Kree)

But seriously, Driving (Style) is a small change and all pulling aniamls do 
need to be trained to the role too.

TTFN
Struan


Quoting Stephen Martin <stephenm@qed.co.nz>:

> If the skill is being able to drive up to Rank or Rank * 2 animals then
> Rank
> 0 confers no particular ability. Also, using horsemanship base chances
> which are very dependent on rank it means that an adventurer can have a
> go
> at driving a cart but if anything unusual happens then they have a
> very
> small chance of retaining control.
> I like the simplicity of Rosemary's proposed addendum to Horsemanship.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Errol Cavit [mailto:ecavit@tranzrail.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 11:59 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] How do you drive a Cart or Wagon?
> 
> 
> Giving everyone it at rank 0 automatically seems a bit off. How about
> 200 EP
> and two weeks? (Area Knowledge is 500 and four)
>  
> Also, how long does it take to learn to use ropes and claws? Does it
> happen
> instantaneously if you spend the extra EP while taking an additional
> rank of
> climbing? How about the skills that let you get extra specialities etc
> past
> rk10?
> 
> 
> 
> This could be added as a paragraph to the end of horsemanship, ie that
> you
> can rank this as driving instead of riding and is treated as a
> separate
> adventuring skill. 
> Rose (in favour of simple changes where possible)
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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>A third variant that might exist is Skiing, Ice Skating, etc... basically 
>moving by strapping things onto your feet.  I don't know offhand of any 
>characters who Ski or Skate but they are reasonable skills for the Alusian 
>social/tech level.

I'm also considering adding Surfing for those who want to try it while in 
Pasifica. Some of the people there are very good at it. My water mage 
already has a few ranks - and combined with the Wave Riding spell ...

(Which reminds me - the island championships are coming up soon. Anyone 
wanting to go down next session?)

Keith.


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
> 
> 
> If the skill is being able to drive up to Rank or Rank * 2 
> animals then Rank
> 0 confers no particular ability.  

Other than how to actually harness the horse/whatever up to the cart

On reflection, doing this as part of basic adventurer training (along with
explaining how to put on a saddle, convincing you that flying doesn't
_always_ mean injury, throwing you into the river and telling you that lunch
is at the top of the small cliff that makes up the opposite bank) _does_
seem reasonable enough.


Also, using horsemanship 
> base chances
> which are very dependent on rank it means that an adventurer 
> can have a go
> at driving a cart but if anything unusual happens then they 
> have a very
> small chance of retaining control.
> I like the simplicity of Rosemary's proposed addendum to Horsemanship.
> 
> 
I think Rank draught animals (minimum 1) without penalties is about right,
GM apply penalties if you try above this (to cover really big teams). I'm
sure GMs can have lots of fun if you are rank one and try to harness two
ponies using an arrangement that you haven't been trained on...

Cheers
Errol


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>The principle seems sound.  Horsemanship also allows one to ride a camel 
>(at a suitable modifier), so a single skill for controlling carts, 
>chariots, sleds, etc seems consistent -- and probably about the level of 
>granularity that's desirable.  One skill for riding things (whatever they 
>may be), one for driving things (ditto).

Depends on what you're riding I suppose. I've been ranking dolphin riding 
separately from horse riding (for example) as the techniques would be 
completely different.

Keith.


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I don't think stuff about how teamster skill works is important enough to go
through rules changes for. A better approach I think would be to have in
parallel to the official rules a Rules Apocrypha, where GMs can submit
optional rules that they play (e.g. Keith's swimming and drowning rules,
Mandos and Williams backfire table from hell), or how they've ruled on
borderline cases (like whether teamster is an adventuring skill or artisan
skill). Nothing in the Apocrypha would be binding, but it allows GMs to be
consistent with other GMs when they have no strong opinions on which way a
ruling should go.

Here are a few apocrophal rulings that have applied to Anathea:
Midwife is an artisan skill.
To be ordained in the Western church for a pastoral role, you need:
 * Rank 5+ in artisan skill 'priest' (representing skills like conducting
services, conflict resolution, etc.)
 * Rank 6+ in Elven (on the assumption that the Western Church uses Elven
like the Catholics use Latin - also apocraphal)
 * Rank 1+ in courtier, including oratory (for sermans)
 * Rank 1+ in philosophy, including theology

Something that has not been ruled on that could possibly come from the
Apocrypha if it existed, is what duties and abilities come from being
ordained. (E.g. I don't know how or if she can create holy water.)

Michael W.


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On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 05:29 , Michael Woodhams wrote:
> Something that has not been ruled on that could possibly come from the
> Apocrypha if it existed, is what duties and abilities come from being
> ordained. (E.g. I don't know how or if she can create holy water.)

As someone who has a character who can create holy water if you want 
holy water that can *do* anything (cause damage to the unholy or 
whatever) I think you should need to gain a spell or ritual to do so. 
Several characters have such rituals.

cheers

clare


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>through rules changes for. A better approach I think would be to have in
>parallel to the official rules a Rules Apocrypha, where GMs can submit
>optional rules that they play (e.g. Keith's swimming and drowning rules,
>Mandos and Williams backfire table from hell), or how they've ruled on
>borderline cases (like whether teamster is an adventuring skill or artisan
>skill). Nothing in the Apocrypha would be binding, but it allows GMs to be
>consistent with other GMs when they have no strong opinions on which way a
>ruling should go.

Sounds good to me. I was thinking of building such a thing for my own use, 
but having something that all the GMs could draw from would be good. Rules 
for playtesting could be put there before they get officially sanctioned 
and so could variant suggestions.

Keith.


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Woodhams" <michael.woodhams@peace.com>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: [dq] Apocrypha


> I don't think stuff about how teamster skill works is important enough to
go
> through rules changes for. A better approach I think would be to have in
> parallel to the official rules a Rules Apocrypha, where GMs can submit
> optional rules that they play (e.g. Keith's swimming and drowning rules,
> Mandos and Williams backfire table from hell), or how they've ruled on
> borderline cases (like whether teamster is an adventuring skill or artisan
> skill). Nothing in the Apocrypha would be binding, but it allows GMs to be
> consistent with other GMs when they have no strong opinions on which way a
> ruling should go.
>
> Here are a few apocrophal rulings that have applied to Anathea:
> Midwife is an artisan skill.

I would have said this wasn't really an artisan skill, it sounds like it's
more of a herbalist skill, but of limited level. Unless one is making a
living as a practicing midwife, I suppose, in which case this Artisan:
Midwife would represent the ability to administer the practice, and keep
records.

> To be ordained in the Western church for a pastoral role, you need:
>  * Rank 5+ in artisan skill 'priest' (representing skills like conducting
> services, conflict resolution, etc.)

This is a very modern priest. It maybe part of the personal baggage of your
priest, but it's not any part of the general body of priesthood. If
anything, village priests were more like political officers and
propagandists for the Holy Mother Church at large. They were responsible for
finding ways to extend the political, and financial powers of their
corporate entity.

They were not organs of diplomacy and peace. Some were, I've no doubt, but I
think it's possibly a sweeping to suggest that these were common. Our idea
of a priest being someone who communicates the issues of his flock to the
community is not a medieval view. Hell, it's not even a Victorian view. It's
VERY modern.


>  * Rank 6+ in Elven (on the assumption that the Western Church uses Elven
> like the Catholics use Latin - also apocraphal)

Not as far as I'm aware. Elven is a living, thriving language, whereas Latin
was a dead language at the correspondant time that DQ would represent, and,
indeed, that was one of its attractions. Dead languages don't change that
much, so they provide a lingua franca that is stable wherever you are in
Christendom.

>  * Rank 1+ in courtier, including oratory (for sermans)

This must be some new kind of polite sermonising, then.

One imagines that the sermons of most village priests were, in fact, the
rantings of some barely literate near-idiot with rather more time on his
hands than might have been good for his health.

>  * Rank 1+ in philosophy, including theology

A village priest armed with theology? The Bishop is going to want to know
about this dangerous crypto-heretic.

I don't think it's possible to be this kind of priest. I do think it's
unlikely that it's at all the standard priest of our period.


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Oops. Typos...
Normally, I wouldn't bother, but I seem to have left two or three =
letters off where they will do the most good.

>=20
> > To be ordained in the Western church for a pastoral role, you need:
> >  * Rank 5+ in artisan skill 'priest' (representing skills like =
conducting
> > services, conflict resolution, etc.)
>=20
> This is a very modern priest. It maybe part of the personal baggage of =
your
> priest, but it's not any part of the general body of priesthood. If
> anything, village priests were more like political officers and
> propagandists for the Holy Mother Church at large. They were =
responsible for
> finding ways to extend the political, and financial powers of their
> corporate entity.
>=20
> They were not organs of diplomacy and peace. Some were, I've no doubt, =
but I
> think it's possibly a  <bit> sweeping to suggest that these were =
common. Our idea
> of a priest being someone who communicates the issues of his flock to =
the
> community is not a medieval view. Hell, it's not even a Victorian =
view. It's
> VERY modern.

> >  * Rank 1+ in philosophy, including theology
>=20
> A village priest armed with theology? The Bishop is going to want to =
know
> about this dangerous crypto-heretic.
>=20
> I don't think it's <im>possible to be this kind of priest. I do think =
it's
> unlikely that it's at all the standard priest of our period.


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<DIV>Oops. Typos...</DIV>
<DIV>Normally, I wouldn't bother, but I seem to have left two or three =
letters=20
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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; To be ordained in the Western church for a =
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political officers and<BR>&gt; propagandists for the Holy Mother Church =
at=20
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think it's possibly a&nbsp; <U><STRONG>&lt;bit&gt;</STRONG></U> sweeping =
to=20
suggest that these were common. Our idea<BR>&gt; of a priest being =
someone who=20
communicates the issues of his flock to the<BR>&gt; community is not a =
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<BR>&gt; A village priest armed with theology? The Bishop is going to =
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