> I would be happy for Spies to use their trained memory to remember perfectly
> phrases and inflections beyond their rank in a language. But not to
> understand it.

My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* proposition which might be easier for all
players to grasp) was that a spy is trained to have a good aural memory and social observation
skills, not to mention professional training to get the gist of the matter.  In effect they DON'T
_understand_ the language at the functioning rank -- but they can take "good notes" (slightly better
than their technical maaster of the language when speaking at length) and have a knack for nodding &
using encouraging phrases at the right times when other people are speaking.   It enables them to be
a slightly better listener, and an *active* encouraging listener, than the average pleb.   It does
NOT enable them to lecture well, or give a lengthy discourse in a language, or to properly answer
questions from an authority -- native speakers will remember the spy as the average-looking sociable
guy who was a "good listener," didn't say much or anything profound (but certainly bought his share
of the drinks).

I believe -- purely as a game mechanic, if not to fit in with the concept of what certain types of
spies are -- that spies *should* have a mechanism for functioning better in languages, or picking up
languages at *lower* levels -- enough to get by in, but below native fluency of the lower classes.
However, under the alternative proposal they STILL must spend the full EP & time to reach Rank 6 or
better -- which I think is desirable [although it doesn't match modern fictional spies I must
admit].

Under Sally's proposal it would only shade a few weeks MAX of the total time, and would be an
encouragement for spies to learn lots of languages up to the "barely scrape-by" level.  By all means
do come up with another mechanism, but I think spies should be somehow encouraged to learn several
additional languages at upto about rank 3 or 4, and using a method that makes the languages a
practical ranking choice.


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m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz wrote:

>My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* proposition which might be easier for all
>players to grasp)...
>
Michael's suggestion on a language benefit for spies, is [paraphrased]:
"Spies treat any spoken language that they have at Ranks 0-4 as being 
one rank higher"

This, IMHO, has the advantage of both offering Spies a small but 
tangible language benefit without altering EP or time, and (my personal 
favourite) of being extremely simple to administer.  I like it!  :-)

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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I thought Michael said

"Spies have an effective understanding of any spoken language that they have
at Ranks 0-4 as if one rank higher."

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: martin.dickson@peace.com [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
Sent: Friday, 4 October 2002 11:38 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Proposed Spy Revision -


m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz wrote:

>My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* proposition which
might be easier for all
>players to grasp)...
>
Michael's suggestion on a language benefit for spies, is [paraphrased]:
"Spies treat any spoken language that they have at Ranks 0-4 as being 
one rank higher"

This, IMHO, has the advantage of both offering Spies a small but 
tangible language benefit without altering EP or time, and (my personal 
favourite) of being extremely simple to administer.  I like it!  :-)

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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AndrewW@datacom.co.nz wrote:

>I thought Michael said
>
>"Spies have an effective understanding of any spoken language that they have
>at Ranks 0-4 as if one rank higher."
>
Fair 'nuff -- my bad.  Still -- very simple to adminster and I still 
like it.  Michael, apologies for (incorrectly) putting words in your mouth.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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Your paraphrase is quite correct.  That is the intent, by all means change the words if necessary.
I guess the GM has the right to be a bastard (as always) to take away the extra rank if the
situation is inapproprate -- and it doesn't exist when it comes to ranking the language higher.

> m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz wrote:
>
> >My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* proposition which might be easier for all
> >players to grasp)...
> >
> Michael's suggestion on a language benefit for spies, is [paraphrased]:
> "Spies treat any spoken language that they have at Ranks 0-4 as being
> one rank higher"
>
> This, IMHO, has the advantage of both offering Spies a small but
> tangible language benefit without altering EP or time, and (my personal
> favourite) of being extremely simple to administer.  I like it!  :-)


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: martin.dickson@peace.com [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]

> 
> >My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* 
> proposition which might be easier for all
> >players to grasp)...
> >
> Michael's suggestion on a language benefit for spies, is 
> [paraphrased]:
> "Spies treat any spoken language that they have at Ranks 0-4 as being 
> one rank higher"
> 

I realise that Michael's (less preferred) suggestion only covered spoken
language. Surely there will be benefits to spies in comprehending documents
as well? (for the same amount of teaching they learn more). When trying to
figure out the gist of text, they are less likely to make mistakes. Is this
enough to give a similar bonus for _reading_ written language?

Cheers
Errol


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Probably not for reading but copied should be less likely to have errors
(sometimes it's faster to copy than to phot memeory them)<br>
<br>
Scott Whitaker<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:errolc@tranzlink.co.nz">errolc@tranzlink.co.nz</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid200210040214.OAA29138@smtp.sig.net.nz">
  <pre wrap="">
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com</a>]
    </pre>
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  <pre wrap=""><!---->
  </pre>
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">My argument (and that was solely for an *alternative* 
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">proposition which might be easier for all
    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">players to grasp)...

      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">Michael's suggestion on a language benefit for spies, is 
[paraphrased]:
"Spies treat any spoken language that they have at Ranks 0-4 as being 
one rank higher"

    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
I realise that Michael's (less preferred) suggestion only covered spoken
language. Surely there will be benefits to spies in comprehending documents
as well? (for the same amount of teaching they learn more). When trying to
figure out the gist of text, they are less likely to make mistakes. Is this
enough to give a similar bonus for _reading_ written language?

Cheers
Errol


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