Subject[dq] Spreadsheet for calculating XP expenditure
FromKeith Smith
DateSun, 26 Aug 2007 08:00:38 +1200
I'm looking for a different way, and hopefully easier way, of doing, 
and storing the accumulating EP expenditure sheets for my PCs and I 
got some advise that, instead of trying to do it all manually, then 
typing it up, I should be using a spreadsheet.

I could start designing my own layouts etc but I'm still a novice 
when it comes to Excel programming so I was wondering if anyone had 
any templates I could look over and get ideas from to help design my 
own. I'm using Excel 2000

Once I've done that, I intend to use it to audit what I currently have.

Thanks

Keith


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Subject[dq-announce] Articles wanted for the Seagate Times
FromKeith Smith
DateSun, 26 Aug 2007 08:27:12 +1200
With the Guild meeting coming up in a few weeks we'd like to get you 
guys thinking about stuff you want to contribute. We especially want 
news of what has been going on in Alusia as well as the usual 
articles, rumours, what's hot/not, and quotes etc.

Thanks
The SGT editors


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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromErrol Cavit
DateSun, 26 Aug 2007 16:47:06 +1200
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I'm not sure if people are realising the difference in cost currently vs.
the cost to get to a mod of 1.0. I certainly didn't until I'd been thinking
about it a bit.
 
Currently a giant 'pays' 33,333 EP per 100,000 EP earned for the pleasure of
being a giant.
An elf pays 16,667 per 100,000, that is, half as much.
This effects both of them throughout their career.
 
The original proposed method of 'buying off' of their mods will cost the
giant 4.3 times as much as the elf. 
 
Is this the intent? If so, why?
 
Bernard's suggestion is closer to the current ratio (the giant pays 2.4x the
elf).
 
If we want the cost to remove the mods to reflect the relative cost that is
being paid now, then all we need to say is 'when you have earned x,000 EP,
your racial mod goes to 1.0'.
 
If x is 300, a giant has paid (3 x 33,333 = 100,000) at this stage, and an
elf (3 x 16,667 = 50,000).
 
By the way, elves currently pay 1.8x what dwarves/orcs/halflings do, buying
off will take 2.8x (2.5x under Bernard).
 
Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Bernard Hoggins
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 21:55
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?


Looking at the maths people are putting forwards for this idea, currently it
seems to be proposed that a Giant will take somewhere in the region of 1
million to 1.5 million raw EP to pay off their racial modifier.   Taking the
standard EP awards that I see this means we are expecting the racial
modifier to be paid off in something like 40-60 adventures.

While this doesn't sound too excessive, many people only play a given
character once or maybe twice a year, so we are talking something like 20
years to pay off the EP modifier.  To me this feels to be excessivly long
term, even for a long running campaign.

Keeping Jono's simplicity system in mind, I'd like to propose a stepped
system, which will reduce this amount somewhat. (taking into account that
low level adventures award perhaps 1/2 the EP of high level adventures this
will not be as much of a speed difference as the numbers seem to indicate)

1.5 to 1.4: 50,000 raw
1.4 to 1.3: 100,000 raw
1.3 to 1.2: 150,000 raw
1.2 to 1.1: 200,000 raw
1.1 to 1.0: 250,000 raw

The net result will be that a high em race will begin to get a lower EM
fairly early on, but to get from 1.1 to 1.0 will take a while.
Summing this up, a Giant would need a total of 750,000 ep raw, while a dwarf
would need 250,000 raw to get rid of their racial mod totally.  Bringing it
more into the sensible lifespan of a character.

For simplicities sake, I'd apply the change in EP modifier on the adventure
they make the cap in raw EP, (E.G Bob the Dwarf has earned 230,000 ep, then
gets 25,000 on an adventure, as this will take him to over 250,000 ep total,
he then uses the 1.0 modifier for that adventure), rather than trying to
break it on exactly 250,000 e.t.c. since that will cause fractional maths.
Existing characters should be able to summarise their raw EP fairly easily
to work out where they should be now.

I'm also of the opinion that backdating the extra ep will be very difficult
to calculate accuratly across the entire board, since it will need a GM to
sign off on each and every backdating to make sure maths errors haven't
crept into the system somewhere, as the formula to calculate across up to 5
variable steps isn't going to be the simplest.

Bernard


From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk 



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<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm 
not sure if people are realising the difference in cost currently vs. the cost 
to get to a mod of 1.0. I certainly didn't until I'd been thinking about it a 
bit.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Currently a giant 'pays' 33,333 EP per 100,000 EP earned for the pleasure 
of being a giant.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>An elf 
pays 16,667 per 100,000, that is, half as much.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This 
effects both of them throughout their career.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The 
original proposed method of 'buying off' of their mods will cost the giant 4.3 
times&nbsp;as much as the elf. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Is 
this the intent? If so, why?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Bernard's suggestion is closer to the current ratio (the giant pays 2.4x 
the elf).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If we 
want the cost to remove the mods to reflect the relative cost that is being paid 
now, then all we need to say is 'when you have earned x,000 EP, your racial mod 
goes to 1.0'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If x 
is 300, a giant has paid (3 x 33,333 = 100,000) at this stage, and an elf (3 x 
16,667 = 50,000).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>By the 
way, elves currently pay 1.8x what dwarves/orcs/halflings do, buying off will 
take 2.8x (2.5x under Bernard).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=895245903-26082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bernard 
  Hoggins<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 25 August 2007 21:55<BR><B>To:</B> 
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule 
  change?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Looking at the maths people are putting forwards 
  for this idea, currently it seems to be proposed that a Giant will take 
  somewhere in the region of 1 million to 1.5 million raw EP to pay off their 
  racial modifier.&nbsp;&nbsp; Taking the standard EP awards that I see this 
  means we are expecting the racial modifier to be paid off in something like 
  40-60 adventures.<BR><BR>While this doesn't sound too excessive, many people 
  only play a given character once or maybe twice a year, so we are talking 
  something like 20 years to pay off the EP modifier.&nbsp; To me this feels to 
  be excessivly long term, even for a long running campaign.<BR><BR>Keeping 
  Jono's simplicity system in mind, I'd like to propose a stepped system, which 
  will reduce this amount somewhat. (taking into account that low level 
  adventures award perhaps 1/2 the EP of high level adventures this will not be 
  as much of a speed difference as the numbers seem to indicate)<BR><BR>1.5 to 
  1.4: 50,000 raw<BR>1.4 to 1.3: 100,000 raw<BR>1.3 to 1.2: 150,000 raw<BR>1.2 
  to 1.1: 200,000 raw<BR>1.1 to 1.0: 250,000 raw<BR><BR>The net result will be 
  that a high em race will begin to get a lower EM fairly early on, but to get 
  from 1.1 to 1.0 will take a while.<BR>Summing this up, a Giant would need a 
  total of 750,000 ep raw, while a dwarf would need 250,000 raw to get rid of 
  their racial mod totally.&nbsp; Bringing it more into the sensible lifespan of 
  a character.<BR><BR>For simplicities sake, I'd apply the change in EP modifier 
  on the adventure they make the cap in raw EP, (E.G Bob the Dwarf has earned 
  230,000 ep, then gets 25,000 on an adventure, as this will take him to over 
  250,000 ep total, he then uses the 1.0 modifier for that adventure), rather 
  than trying to break it on exactly 250,000 e.t.c. since that will cause 
  fractional maths.&nbsp; Existing characters should be able to summarise their 
  raw EP fairly easily to work out where they should be now.<BR><BR>I'm also of 
  the opinion that backdating the extra ep will be very difficult to calculate 
  accuratly across the entire board, since it will need a GM to sign off on each 
  and every backdating to make sure maths errors haven't crept into the system 
  somewhere, as the formula to calculate across up to 5 variable steps isn't 
  going to be the simplest.<BR><BR>Bernard<BR><BR><BR>From Bernard 
  Hoggins<BR>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk
  <P>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJohanna and Hamish
DateSun, 26 Aug 2007 21:38:23 +1200
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Thanks for this post Errol it has clarified what you mean by 'ratio's' for
me.

I also like Bernard's proposal it means that Giants get rid of the worst of
the EP mod after 250,000 raw ep (about 13 adventures or 7 years).

There is value in the racial abilities which do not ever go away for example
an elves racial whichsite talent or the fact that giants are strong and tuff
beyond what any human will ever achieve except under exceptional
circumstances.

However these bonuses should be valued in someway IMV, and this I think is
what this conversation is about.

I particularly like that under Bernard's proposal the EP mod goes away
slowly rather than amassing 750,000 (if you're a giant) and then poof its
gone, and I like that it is simple.  Perhaps someone could adjust the scale
so that it more accurately reflects the ratio Errol is on about.

However it seems to me that this proposal will have more people behind it as
a result of this discussion and that it is a better proposal (IMV anyway)
than the original. 

Could it be put forward in a form which could be added to the rule book as
an agreed change so that it can be voted on at the God's meeting.

What about this

Racial Modifiers
A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 until it reaches 1.0
according to the scale below, as the PC earns EP on adventure. 
1.5 to 1.4 	50,000ep
1.4 to 1.3 	100,000ep
1.3 to 1.2 	150,000ep
1.2 to 1.1 	200,000ep
1.1 to 1.0	250,000ep
Example: a starting Giant will have an EP mod of 1.5 until such time as they
have earned 50,000 raw ep on adventures at this point they will begin to
modify their raw ep by 1.4 until such time as they have earned a further
100,000 raw ep on adventure (150,000 raw ep in total) etc to 1.0.  
Implemention: To be applied retrospectively i.e. EP already 'over-spent' is
refunded. Except that only the total modification is taken into account.
Example: If an Elf has amassed 500,000 raw ep on adventure then they will
receive an ep refund on the last 50,000 earned (i.e only that ep earned
after the ep mod was paid off in full).
Cheers Hamish 


I'm not sure if people are realising the difference in cost currently vs.
the cost to get to a mod of 1.0. I certainly didn't until I'd been thinking
about it a bit.
 
Currently a giant 'pays' 33,333 EP per 100,000 EP earned for the pleasure of
being a giant.
An elf pays 16,667 per 100,000, that is, half as much.
This effects both of them throughout their career.
 
The original proposed method of 'buying off' of their mods will cost the
giant 4.3 times as much as the elf. 
 
Is this the intent? If so, why?
 
Bernard's suggestion is closer to the current ratio (the giant pays 2.4x the
elf).
 
If we want the cost to remove the mods to reflect the relative cost that is
being paid now, then all we need to say is 'when you have earned x,000 EP,
your racial mod goes to 1.0'.
 
If x is 300, a giant has paid (3 x 33,333 = 100,000) at this stage, and an
elf (3 x 16,667 = 50,000).
 
By the way, elves currently pay 1.8x what dwarves/orcs/halflings do, buying
off will take 2.8x (2.5x under Bernard).
 
Cheers
Errol
-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Bernard Hoggins
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 21:55
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
Looking at the maths people are putting forwards for this idea, currently it
seems to be proposed that a Giant will take somewhere in the region of 1
million to 1.5 million raw EP to pay off their racial modifier.   Taking the
standard EP awards that I see this means we are expecting the racial
modifier to be paid off in something like 40-60 adventures.

While this doesn't sound too excessive, many people only play a given
character once or maybe twice a year, so we are talking something like 20
years to pay off the EP modifier.  To me this feels to be excessivly long
term, even for a long running campaign.

Keeping Jono's simplicity system in mind, I'd like to propose a stepped
system, which will reduce this amount somewhat. (taking into account that
low level adventures award perhaps 1/2 the EP of high level adventures this
will not be as much of a speed difference as the numbers seem to indicate)

1.5 to 1.4: 50,000 raw
1.4 to 1.3: 100,000 raw
1.3 to 1.2: 150,000 raw
1.2 to 1.1: 200,000 raw
1.1 to 1.0: 250,000 raw

The net result will be that a high em race will begin to get a lower EM
fairly early on, but to get from 1.1 to 1.0 will take a while.
Summing this up, a Giant would need a total of 750,000 ep raw, while a dwarf
would need 250,000 raw to get rid of their racial mod totally.  Bringing it
more into the sensible lifespan of a character.

For simplicities sake, I'd apply the change in EP modifier on the adventure
they make the cap in raw EP, (E.G Bob the Dwarf has earned 230,000 ep, then
gets 25,000 on an adventure, as this will take him to over 250,000 ep total,
he then uses the 1.0 modifier for that adventure), rather than trying to
break it on exactly 250,000 e.t.c. since that will cause fractional maths.
Existing characters should be able to summarise their raw EP fairly easily
to work out where they should be now.

I'm also of the opinion that backdating the extra ep will be very difficult
to calculate accuratly across the entire board, since it will need a GM to
sign off on each and every backdating to make sure maths errors haven't
crept into the system somewhere, as the formula to calculate across up to 5
variable steps isn't going to be the simplest.

Bernard


From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk 

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