From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 08:20:25 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id IAA24258; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:20:25 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id IAA24255 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:20:24 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id IAA12385 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:15:07 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902221915.IAA12385@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:15:21 +0000 Subject: RE: Jonno Fighting 8.0 - Conversion. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Jonno Fighting 8.0 - Conversion. Dear All, just a quick response > Subject: > Conversion document. > > Why is this needed at all? [....] > (shame about all that time spent on learning Flail and War club & other > useless weapons) This answers your own question: you've spent ep on something "useless" **merely because you had to meet warrior criteria. However, as a matter of scale I agree that the conversion document is probably too extreme. By the way, the example in the document is incorrect (should be 12pt + 15 pts) > My suggestion is NO CONVERSION and if we want to trial these skills we > should playtest them. Conversion is essential for all those *genuine* fighters out there who have lost the ability to multi-strike B-class weapons, etc. However I tend to favour some sort of e.p.& time shuffle -- which would avoid the appearence of inequity, and be closer to a genuine "ripple effect". If there is no Conversion, we suddenly have 1 or 2 years of adventures where every fighter suddenly become unbelievably incompetent compared to NPC, or even the PC's own historical record. If there is a freebie conversion bonus -- I avoid using the word "bribe" -- the new skills are cheapened. Which would be a pity, since I believe Jono's proposals, on the whole, are a very positive contribution to the game. regards, michael Michael Parkinson Information Services A/L Science Library, University of Auckland. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 11:34:29 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA24419; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:29 +1300 Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA24416 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:34:27 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA18735 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:25:07 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <36D1D8BB.E134EEA3@games.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:22:55 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fighting 8.0 - Text format Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Jono Bean To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Hi All, Here is the Fighting Skill Ver 0.8 in text format without the Quick Sheet / Help pages that are in the PDF and Word / Excell formats. ------- cut here --------- Melee Combat in DQ Jono: fighting.08 Abstract: The basic points I would like to make is that in DQ Fighters don't have a lot of choices in combat, related to weapons or fighting actions. A weapon is effectively just a stick with damage points attached. The Warrior skill (I think) was aimed at adding a little more to combat for non-mages. It was also to help make a distinction between different fighters. I feel that it fails because at run time there are too many numbers that need to be taken into account, and all that the skill ends up doing is giving greater Strike Chance and Defence. This doesn't help the player to have a greater variety of options available to explore. My Aim: I am aiming to replace the Warrior skill with a new Warrior skill. At the same time, a special addition of combat options is planned. These should work together. Generally, the options will not be interactive with a foe (you won't need to know your enemies defence or what type of weapon they are using to use the skill). I also wish to replace some things in the current system: These are (in no particular order); Multi Hex Strikes, Disarming Blows, Knock Out Blows, Trip Attacks, Advanced Unarmed Combat System, Shield Rush Attacks. The Replacements are: For greater determination of Actions in melee combats: The aim of Weapon Abilities is that they give the player more choice in combat, other than just hitting an enemy (although that does make up a large part of it). The system is expensive in terms of EP and low in time cost. I hope this will generally exclude characters with a college from making great use of this system, and encourage non-mages to spend EP on it. The system suggested is not a realistic one but is more of a Heroic role-playing system. I hope that this will empower and encourage players with more options in combat while retaining the simplicity at run-time. Introduction into DQ: The aim is to divide the information into the following way into sections: Conversion Document: This document is freely available to all people. It will not contain all of the abilities that are in the GM’s kit as not all things will be available to players when we introduce the system. The players will get given a number of points to spend on weapon abilities. These points are equal to: 1/2 total weapon ranks + 3 x warrior rank Eg: 5 rank 5 weapons = 25 points and a rank 5 warrior = 15 points. For each point you gain 1 week and 2,000 EP. You spend this time and EP on Weapon Abilities as if it where real time and EP as per normal. Any unspent points are lost. Abilities that are already out there: Characters that have a special ability that is unique and that this system will replace, make redundant or formalise into standard rules should have their time and EP refunded. If the ability is unique then, in general, they should get an ability from this system that is not available to all players so that they continue to have something that is unique. This will have to be done on a case by case basis. GM’s Kits and the Rules: In the GM’s kits put all the information like the Weapon Ability Rules, the conversion system and campaign notes. Campaign: In the Players Guide we will put a section that describes the new weapon abilities rules. This will tell of Groups and Organisations that use these special abilities, and what they do. Seagate Times: In the SGT we should advertise the fact that this system is being introduced at the next Guild meeting. Players will be given the campaign and conversion notes in advance, so they can understand what will be going on at the next meeting. A group of GM’s will have to be trained to handle the conversion. I think that a group of 7 GM’s will be needed. A survey of warriors will also need to be done in advance of the conversion date. Notes on the changes since last time: Nemesis: to idea of Weapon Ability Nemesis has been totally removed. Class: Weapons Abilities now work with all weapons of a class. EM: Weapon Abilities have been given EM's. Costs: Most of the special abilities have now got a Fatigue cost for using them and a minus to the users defence. Adding New Weapon Abilities: Once the rules for weapon abilities are in play if a GM wants to give out a new ability in the game to a character then I feel it would be wise if it is talked about at a GM's meeting rules section. Or maybe we just need a safe guard against stupid mistakes with two GM's signatures on new abilities? The cost for Rank 0 EP and the EM and the LVL and Fatigue Cost and Effect are all things that need to be balanced with already existing abilities. The Warrior Skill A warrior is one who learns the art of combat. The skill is concerned with weapon skills and weapon abilities. To understand the warrior skill it is important to realise that unlike other skills where advancement is dependent equally on knowledge and practice, for a warrior advancement must revolve primarily around practise. Knowledge of special moves and tactics is less important. EP Cost: The EP cost for the Warrior Skill is the same. Requirements: To gain the following ranks a warrior must have the weapons and abilities to support this skill. They are: Rank 3 1 Weapon Ability ranked over rank 4. 2 Weapons ranked above rank 3. Rank 5 3 Weapon Abilities ranked over rank 4 3 Weapon Abilities of LVL 2 at above rank 4 3 Weapons ranked above 5. Rank 7 4 Weapon Abilities ranked over rank 4 4 Weapon Abilities of LVL 2 at above rank 4 4 Weapons ranked above 5. Benefits: Combinations: A warrior gains the special ability of a free combination at ranks 4, 8 and 10. The combination is defined in the Weapon Abilities Section. Experience Discount: For every two full ranks a warrior gains a discount of 50 off the EM cost of Weapon Abilities. Military Scientist: A warrior may act as a Military Scientist for small groups only. Starting at rank 3 they gain one rank for every three full ranks in the warrior skill. Initiative: A warrior gains extra Initiative equal to at bonus of Warrior rank or Weapon ranks which ever is lower. Strike Chance: A warrior gains the special ability of extra strike chance for all non-missile weapons. This is equal to three times rank. Weapon Drop: A warrior gains the ability to retain melee weapons in hand. This means that when a warrior has to make a MD check to retain melee weapons they may subtract the rank from the dice roll. Weapon Abilities and Actions: Abilities: A Weapon Ability is learnt with a Weapon Class (A B or C) and can be used with any weapon that the character has in that Class of weapon and also has the minimum rank (list for the weapon ability). Some abilities have there own rank. The Rank in the ability can not be utilised at a rank higher than the Normal Weapon Rank or perquisite Weapon Ability. This is to say; Double Strike Weapon Ability at rank 7 Bite of the Widow Weapon Ability at rank 8 The character using an Estoc at rank 8 can use the Double Strike at rank 7 or the Bite of the Widow at rank 7. This is because the Double Strike is at rank 7 and limits the use of Bite of the Widow. The character changes weapons to a Hand and a Half Sword at rank 5. All of the abilities can only be used at rank 5. As a general rule when in use, the lowest rank is used. The only exception to this is Over Rank Ability. Training Time: To Learn a Weapon Ability: Weapon Abilities take LVL weeks to learn to rank 0. This is done in 1 training slot and count as Weapon Ranking for mixing training. To Rank a Weapon Ability: The time to rank a Weapon Ability is done in days not weeks. To go to rank six from rank five takes six days. Perquisite Names: Some abilities have perquisites within the system. This means they can not be learnt with out other skills be learnt first. If the skill name is indented then it has a perquisite. On the table below you have to learn Double Strike before anything else. After that you can then learn one of the following three and after one (or all) you can then learn Spinning Rocks or Widow Maker. Double Strike All or Nothing Bite of the Widow Lines of Death Spinning Rocks Widow Maker Ranking and Max Rank: The ability is used at the lowest rank of either the Normal Weapon Rank or the Ability Rank or perquisite Weapon Ability. If no EM is given then no re-ranking is required. LVL: This is the cost to combine abilities together (- is free). One of the Common Abilities is called Combination and allows you to combine other abilities. EG: Single Hand of Truth (2) and Feint Attack (3) cost 5 Combination points (cost 150,000 EP). RR: Y on the table means the new ability is required to be Re-ranked. This will mean that weapons will have a new SC and IV rank etc when the ability is in use. Rank 0: The one off cost in EP to learn the ability to rank 0. EM: To rank the ability to the next rank multiple the new rank by the EM number. If no EM is given then no re- ranking is required. Class: The class of weapon (A, B and C) that the ability can be used with. If there is no class given on the table, a weapon is not needed for the ability. Rank: This is the weapon rank required in the weapon to use the Ability. FT: The Fatigue cost that must be paid each time, to attempt to use the weapon ability. Special Fatigue: Where the FT is noted as Special, the Fatigue spent can not be more that the rank in the Weapon Ability. That's to say; If rank 4 in Lightning Strike Weapon Ability you can spend a maximum of 4 fatigue per time that it is used. Minus to Defence: This is the minus to the users Defence when they try to use that Ability (if more that one ability is in use the total penalty is used). Common Weapon Abilities: Aimed Blow Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 13,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You spend a Pulse to find a weakness in your opponent’s defence. This may also be done outside the combat sequence, in which case the target must be studied for a minute. For the next rank hours you may treat their armour as having 2 less armour points. Cleaving Limbs: Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 10,000 EM: 800 Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 3 Minus to Def: none Effect: You make an attack against an opponent and if you inflict effective damage greater than their full endurance, they must make a (1xEN + Armour) roll. If they fail, they take 4 EN damage and use the use of that limb. This is as per the Specific Grievous (51-52). Broken Flight Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 14,500 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: If you do effective damage the target’s TMR is reduced by one. The duration is equal to your weapon rank hours or may be healed by a rank 5 healer. TMR can never be reduced in this fashion below half its normal value. Strike Chance is reduced by 30%. Bleeder Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 24,000 EM: none Class: A Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: If you do effective damage you also do a 1 point bleeder (to EN) per pulse until healed by a rank 3 Healer. Your defence is reduced by 20%. Crushing Death Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 12,000 EM: 1,200 Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: Special Minus to Def: none Effect: You can spend up to 3 X rank fatigue points, to gain the same as a bonus to your Strike Chance and Damage this pulse. Leg Breaker Level: 2 RR: No Rank 0: 42,000 EM: none Class: C Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: none Effect: If you gain a possible Specific Grievous then before the roll on the table you can chose to use this ability. You pay the fatigue and you can add or subtract up to your weapon rank (not ability rank) on the Table roll after the roll has been made. Mighty Blow Level: 2 RR: No Rank 0: 29,000 EM: none Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 3 Minus to Def: none Effect: You take a penalty of 25% to your Strike Chance, but if you hit you do maximum total damage. Disarm Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 10,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: A figure may attempt to Disarm an opponent with any prepared Melee or Close rated weapon. The Strike Chance of the attack is reduced by -20. If the attack is successful, one point of EN is inflicted, and the target must roll under (MD + Rank) or drop a weapon or item of the attacker’s choice. If the item is being held in two hands, the check is (2 X MD + Rank). A figure may not move while attempting a Disarm. Duelling Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 1,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: Half Defence Effect: This weapon ability is used for non-lethal combats. It is for resolving duels. Both opponents must have this ability. When duelling both of the opponents have their defence halved. All attacks and damage are made as normal for the purpose of deciding a victor. The damage done in the duel is not real damage as both opponents are ‘pulling’ their blows. At the end of the duel the vanquished opponent takes 1/2 of the total Endurance and Fatigue lost as real damage. As all blows are pulled, Specific Grievous injuries do no permanent damage and do not damage armour. Flashy Play Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 12,500 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 2 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You spend an attack action confusing your opponent instead of delivering a blow, and increase the Strike Chance of your next attack action on the same opponent by 20. Force Back Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 13,000 EM: none Class: B and C Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: none Effect: If you hit your opponent (and they are smaller or within 2 size factor's larger on the armour chart) then you force them to move back to a hex of your choice. If they do move back they take no damage from a fatigue blow. Endurance and Specific Grievous blows do their normal damage. If they wish to avoid being Forced Back they take maximum damage. Gabrielle's Blade Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 4,000 EM: none Class: A, B Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You can use this special ability with a cold iron or silvered melee weapon (but not magical) instead of attacking. You may raise your magic resistance by twice your rank in the weapon until your next action. Combination Level: - RR: No Rank 0: 30,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: none Effect: Unlike other weapon abilities with this ability you gain one point per time that you bye it for the 30,000 EP. With these points you can combine other weapon abilities at their LVL cost to make one action. So if you want to use 3 abilities at once that are all LVL 1, it will cost 3 combination points. Hands of Truth Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 12,500 EM: none Class: B Min Rank: 5 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You can multi-hex strike with a one handed weapon using both hands. The total damage die is halved. Single Hand of Truth Level: 2 RR: No Rank 0: 9,500 EM: none Class: B Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You can multi-hex strike with a one handed weapon using only one hand. The total damage die is halved. Knock Out Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 2,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: You attack with any prepared Melee rated weapon excluding entangling weapons, Lances and Pikes, may attempt to knock out their opponent. The attack is successful if the Strike Check would normally result in an Endurance blow (see §3.11). No damage is done, and if they fail a 3 X Will Power check (10 X WP if wearing a helmet) the target is unconscious for [D + 5] minutes. This attack may not be attempted on a target significantly larger than the attacker. A figure may not move while attempting a Knockout. Lesser Weapon Skills Level: - RR: No Rank 0: 1,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: You can open and rank a weapon that you do not have the physical attributes for. This is done at quadruple the normal EP and time cost for the weapon. For each point of MD that you do not have for the weapon you also suffer a minus 5% to the SC of the weapon. Light of Life Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 1,000 EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 4 Minus to Def: none Effect: This mystical ability lets you strike fear in the hearts of Death Aspected opponents. If you have a weapon that has been blessed by Rafael then you can use the weapon to cause a ‘birth of a sentient’ to happen. Only one of these effects may be in place at any one time. Multi-Hex Strike Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 8,000 EM: none Class: B Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: Allows a strike to be made at 2 or 3 opponents in your front facing hexes. The Strike Chance is reduced by -20 on each attack. A figure may not move while making a Multi-hex Strike. Over Rank Level: - RR: No Rank 0: 10,000 EM: none Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: A weapon can be ranked beyond its maximum rank. The EP cost for each new rank is equal to the total EP cost so far plus the base 10,000. This is to say that a Rank 5 Two Handed Sword cost's 1,500 EP. To rank it to Rank 6 would cost 13,000 EP and to rank it to rank 7 would cost 23,000 EP. A single weapon can not be ranked more than 5 times. The weapon rank may exceed 10. Shield Rush Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 2,000 EM: none Class: Shield only Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 0 Minus to Def: none Effect: A figure with a prepared shield (other than a Main Gauche or Tower Shield) may attempt to Shield Rush their opponent. If the attack is successful, the target must make a 3 X AG Check or fall prone. This attack may not be attempted on a target significantly larger than the attacker. A figure must move at least one hex before attempting a Shield Rush. Spikes of Defeat Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 30,000 EM: none Class: A Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: If you gain a possible Specific Grievous then before the roll on the table you can chose to use this ability. You pay the fatigue and you can add or subtract up to your weapon rank (not ability rank) on the Table roll after the roll has been made. Special Move Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 20,000 EM: none Class: - Min Rank: - Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You can move an extra hex of TMR if you are able to move. This will not let you leave a melee zone. Side Step Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 20,000 EM: none Class: - Min Rank: - Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You can move an extra hex for free in combat. This is not an action and you may leave a melee zone. Double TMR Level: 1 RR: No Rank 0: 22,000 EM: none Class: - Min Rank: - Fatigue: 3 Minus to Def: -40% Defence Effect: You may move twice your current TMR as a single move action. Normal Damage Level: - RR: No Rank 0: Free EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: Plus 1 damage point at each Weapon rank of 4 and 8. This is the normal damage bonus for rank and is free of cost. Uncommon Damage Level: - RR: No Rank 0: 14,000 EM: none Class: C Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: Plus 1 damage point at each Weapon rank of 3, 6 and 9. This ability is used instead of Normal Damage Ability. Rare Damage Level: - RR: No Rank 0: 6,500 EM: none Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: Plus 1 damage point at each Weapon rank of 2, 4, 6 and 8. This ability is used instead of Uncommon Damage Ability. Defensive Withdraw Level: - RR: No Rank 0: Free EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: An engaged figure may solely defend, increasing their defence by 20. They may then move one hex. A figure may attempt to Withdraw from Close Combat. If they are successful, they may move one hex, but are still treated as prone. A figure may Withdraw from Close if a D10 roll plus any positive difference in total Physical Strength between the friendly and hostile figures in the hex is at least 10. Offensive Withdraw Level: - RR: No Rank 0: Free EM: none Class: Any Min Rank: - Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: An engaged figure may make a Melee Attack with a -20 penalty to their Strike Chance. They may then move one hex and change facing. They may freely leave the Melee Zone of any opponent, but may not move into that opponent’s rear hex. Special Weapon Abilities: Arrow Cutting (add other missiles) Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 7,000 EM: 1,200 Class: A, B Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: This is a free action that can be done at any time. You may deflect or cut arrows away harmlessly that would normally have hit you. Half the new SC is used to ‘cut’ the arrows. Arrows have 0% defence. Each new ‘cut’ is at a minus 20% to your SC after the first. You can only ‘cut’ rank arrows per pulse. The arrows have to come through your front melee zone and not from surprise. Blade Frenzy Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 13,000 EM: 700 Class: B, C Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You may add up to your rank to the roll on the Specific Grievous table. Crushing Coils Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 8,000 EM: 600 Class: B, C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: Allows a strike to be made at 2 or 3 opponents in your front facing hexes. The Strike Chance is reduced by -20 on each attack. You may not move while making Crushing Coils attack. Skull Breaker Level: 2 RR: No Rank 0: 34,000 EM: none Class: B, C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You may add up to twice your weapon rank to the roll on the Specific Grievous table. Feint Attack Level: 3 RR: Yes Rank 0: 13,500 EM: 700 Class: B, C Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: Make a Base Chance Check (not a SC), if you fail then you don't get an attack with this action. If you succeed in your Feint, then your real attack (same action) is at plus 20. Mighty Attack Level: 4 RR: Yes Rank 0: 20,000 EM: 3,000 Class: B, C Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: Special Minus to Def: Special Effect: For this attack you can spend up to rank fatigue. Each point spent has the effect of increasing Initiative by 10, Strike Chance by 20, and giving you an extra damage bonus of rank. At the same time your defence is reduced by 20 per fatigue point. Blind Blade Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 13,000 EM: 800 Class: A Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: You suffer no penalties for fighting in the dark. Blind Blow Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 8,500 EM: 500 Class: B, C Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: - Effect: You suffer no penalties for fighting in the dark. Double Strike Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 15,000 EM: 1,000 Class: A, B Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 4 Minus to Def: -50% Defence Effect: Allows two strikes with the same weapon at the same target. Both Strike Chances' are reduced by 20. All or Nothing Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 5,500 EM: 1,500 Class: A, B Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: If you hit your target you roll odd or even for the damage dice doing a damage of 1 or 10 points. Bite of the Widow Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 9,500 EM: 1,500 Class: A, B Min Rank: 5 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -50% Defence Effect: If you hit your target instead of rolling normal damage you roll odd or even for the damage dice doing a damage of 9 or 10 points plus normal modifiers. Lines of death Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 19,000 EM: 1,800 Class: B Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: You may re-roll your attack dice (same target) up to your weapon rank number of times. You can stop at any point. Each time you re-roll your attack, you add +5 to the dice for your attack. You must stop on any weapon fumble. Spinning Rocks Level: 4 RR: Yes Rank 0: 14,500 EM: 3,200 Class: B Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -50% Defence Effect: You gain an extra damage bonus of ability rank X ability rank. This damage can be split over any hit targets in your front melee zone with a maximum of 60 bonus damage points on any one target. Widow Maker Level: 3 RR: Yes Rank 0: 12,500 EM: 2,000 Class: B Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You gain plus 10 Strike Chance, plus 10 Initiative, 9 or 10 damage on the damage dice (a roll of odd or even) and if any effective damage is done then you also do a 2 point bleeder. Focus of Death Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 16,500 EM: 1,000 Class: A Min Rank: 7 Fatigue: S Minus to Def: none Effect: For each successful consecutive blow made against the same opponent, you may add the damage bonus of the weapon to the total damage done (as per the table below). Consecutive Damage Fatigue Blow result cost 1st D + damage bonus 2 2nd D + 2 x damage bonus 2 3rd D + 3 x damage bonus 3 4th D + 4 x damage bonus 4 etc. The fatigue cost and damage bonus multiple is intended to continue beyond the end of the table. Lightning Strike Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 13,500 EM: 1,000 Class: A Min Rank: 3 Fatigue: S Minus to Def: -50% Defence Effect: For the next attack action you gain an increase in Initiative of 10 and Strike Chance of 10 for each point of fatigue you spend. Piercing Thrust Level: 3 RR: Yes Rank 0: 18,000 EM: 3,400 Class: A Min Rank: 7 Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -50% Defence Effect: A successful attack has its effect increased by one step - making Fatigue blows into Endurance blows and Endurance into possible Specific Grievous blows. Your Strike Chance is reduced by 40. Great Attack Level: 3 RR: Yes Rank 0: 10,000 EM: 3,000 Class: A Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 5 Minus to Def: -100% Defence Effect: You gain an extra damage bonus of ability rank X ability rank. This damage can be split over any hit targets in your front melee zone with a maximum of 50 bonus damage points on any one target. Pushed Attack Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 12,000 EM: 2,200 Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: Special Minus to Def: -40% Defence Effect: You gain a damage bonus equal to half the rank of the Pushed Attack ability X the Fatigue points spent. Rear Cut Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 14,500 EM: 500 Class: B Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You can attack into a rear hex with only a penalty of 20 to your Strike Chance. Reverse Stroke Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 20,500 EM: 500 Class: B Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: You can attack into a rear hex without penalty. Throw Weapon Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 11,000 EM: 600 Class: A, B Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: none Effect: You can throw a weapon not rated for ranged combat up to rank hexes, as an attack. Sting of the Scorpion Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 19,000 EM: 1,200 Class: A Min Rank: 6 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You may subtract up to your weapon rank from the roll on the Specific Grievous table. Tidal Blow Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 15,000 EM: 800 Class: C Min Rank: - Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -30% Defence Effect: You may make two attack rolls against a single opponent and use either of the rolls after both have been rolled. Storm of Blood: Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 15,000 EM: 1,000 Class: C Min Rank: - Fatigue: 2 Minus to Def: -25% Defence Effect: You can subtract you rank on the attack dice roll. You can not do a Specific Grievous blow with this attack. Second Chance Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 12,000 EM: 900 Class: C Min Rank: - Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: You may re-roll your attack dice once. If you re-roll the dice you must take the second roll instead of the first. Hammer of Power Level: 2 RR: Yes Rank 0: 10,500 EM: 800 Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: none Effect: If you hit your target you may add +5 to the damage die roll to a maximum effective roll of 12. Pound of Flesh Level: 4 RR: Yes Rank 0: 45,000 EM: 2,000 Class: C Min Rank: - Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: This attack always succeeds doing only fatigue blow. Waterfall of Stones Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 15,500 EM: 1,000 Class: C Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: - Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: If this attack succeeds it does maximum damage on the dice. Weapon Trap Level: 1 RR: Yes Rank 0: 10,000 EM: 1,000 Class: Any Min Rank: 4 Fatigue: 1 Minus to Def: -20% Defence Effect: If the strike is successful, your enemies weapon is trapped and they cannot use it until they make a successful Withdrawal Action or you release them and the weapon. The weapon used to trap can not be used for subsequent attacks until the Withdrawal or release. Your Strike chance is reduced by 20 while attempting this action. Trip Attack: You may attempt to trip an opponent. The Base Chance is reduced to 40%, and the damage to D10. If the attack is successful, the target must make a 3 xAG check or fall prone. This attack may not be attempted on a target significantly larger than the attacker. Campaign notes on Weapon Abilities This section describes what is generally known about the weapon abilities. It is common knowledge gathered by adventurers, stories, and legends. They are: Multi-Hex Strike: The use of a 2 handed sword to great effect in hitting more than one opponent at the same time. Only better fighters try this hard manoeuvre in combat. Crushing Coils: Some people say that this is close to the Multi-Hex Strike used by better fighters. It is known that great fighters have used clubs, and even Mattocks with this special attack form. Mighty Blow: A very hard attack to pull off in combat but delivers an effective blow against the enemy. Force Back: Used by some fighters to knock-back an opponent in combat. Lightning Strike: A very fast special attack for use in melee combat. Blind Blade and Blind Blow: These are both used when fighting in the dark. Over Rank: Some great warriors of the realm are known to be better with some weapon than others believe is possible. These great individuals are very rare and their secrets with their weapons are normally closely guarded secrets. Double Strike: A quick fighting style that is widely used by better fighters to defeat their opponents. Piercing Thrust: A horrific attack form that is openly despised within the Western Kingdom as cruel and blood thirsty. Many deaths that came about in the ‘Civil War’ of 793-795 are blamed on this despised fighting style. Flashy Play: A dazzling attack style that is commonly used by fighters. Throw Weapon: This cowardly attack is most effective against opponents from behind. Some fighters have gained the skill of throwing weapons at unaware opponents. Aimed Blow: An attack form that some people think is clearly overrated. The wisdom behind using this arcane style of fighting is finding a weakness in the enemy's armour an exploiting it. Knock Out: A non-fatal head blow to an opponent. This seldom- practised attack is defended against with a helm. Feint Attack: A confusing attack style that is commonly used by fighters. Reverse stroke, Rear Cut and Spinning Rocks: A difficult move for anyone in melee combat. Skilled fighters do a surprising attack at an opponent behind them – often with devastating outcome. Arrow Cutting: Few great fighters of the Realm have mastered this rare and special defence. Against arrows it offers some protection. Lines of death: Another horrific attack form that is openly despised within the Western Kingdom. It is very effective but hard to master. Spike to the crutch: A less-used attack form or style that is commonly used by the Knights from Bowcourt. Tidal blow: A better used attack form or style that is commonly used by the Northern Knights from Bowcourt and Aquila within the Western Kingdom. Storm of blood: An attack from favored by the Dwarfs from the Superstition Mountains. This style leads to effective body blows through armour. Pound of Flesh: A very rare and frightening ‘special mantra’ attack form that binds the soul of an opponent and allowing the attacker to destroy them. Some people believe that if you die from this attack form you cannot be resurrected. Broken flight: An easy and commonly used attack that lightly wounds to foot or lower leg of an enemy slowing them down in combat. Weapon Trap: Not so easy but commonly used attack that binds or traps an opponents weapon, and stops them using it. Bite of the widow: A style that leads to horrific damage in melee combat. Flurry of Gates: Another style that leads to even more horrific damage in melee combat. Waterfall of Stones: Another style that leads to even more horrific damage in melee combat. Sting of the Scorpion, Blade frenzy, Mattock of Pain, Spikes of defeat and Avalanche blow: The above list of abilities all have lead to more Specific Grievous Wounds being done over the last 15 years within the Northern Baronies and Western Kingdom regions. Areas have banned their use in dueling Hands of Truth: Some skilled fighters can use attack multiple opponents with a one handed weapon. The Saber is the favoured weapon for this difficult fighting style. Single Hand of Truth: A greater refinement on the ‘Hands of Truth’ fighting style. Great fighters within the Western Kingdom are almost expected to be able to perform this difficult style. Rain of Caltrops: A special attack that leads to the quick death of even the strongest opponent. The wisdom behind the style has lead to its name. Consecutive blows are made on the same doomed opponent leading to their defeat. Crushing Death: At great personal cost the fighter over-exerts a single blow – that leads to overall greater damage all around. Gabriel’s Blade of Defence: A special defence developed by one of Gabriel’s Saints to help protect the devout against magical attacks. Lesser Weapon Skills: Normal townspeople and even the town guard follow this fighting style that allows them to learn a great range of weapons. Groups and Organisations This section details some of the Groups and Organisations that use these Weapon Abilities within the known realm. They are of note as they often have secret abilities not commonly found. Most of the groups listed below do not teach their special skills outside their organisations. Fighting Schools: There are six main schools of note. They can be found in the cities of Aquila, Brandenburg, Artzdurf, Sanctuary, Adjipbar and Drakenburg. All of the schools guard their secrets closely. Membership in a school will exclude you from becoming a member of another. The schools members do not train their arts or skills outside of the school. Some of the schools have more than one branch. Mostly the children from noble families are the only ones able to afford the excellent training that these schools offer. Willow and Water School: The fighting school in Aquila, started in the year 1856AP, has had a colourful history. In the last sixty years the great families with influence over the school have often been involved in feuds and small land wars. The schools members are members for life. The school can call on retired and ex-members in times of need. Cults: Some Cults practice some martial arts but in general they are not worth noting as a group. Often members within Cults are the type of people that are dedicated enough to have some refined fighting abilities. The Unified Church: The Michaelines: Within the Michaelines there are seven different Orders of note. Even among the same military fighting orders in the Northern Baronies and Western Kingdom there are differences in fighting styles. Not all of the Orders within the Michaelines are as popular as the Order of the Hands of Truth. The Hands of Truth have 54 Chapter Houses, whereas the Path of Retribution has 5. Below is a list of the Orders and the Duchies they have Chapter Houses in. All of these Orders of Michaelines are within the same church but all have some small differing belief about doctrine within the church. Some are associated with abbeys. Orders Total Aq. Bo. Br. Ra. Hands of Truth 54 44 6 2 2 The One Sword 27 22 3 1 1 Right True Path 16 1 15 0 0 The Bright Sword 33 3 28 0 2 Path of Retribution 5 2 1 1 1 Key: Aq. = Aquila, Bo. = Bowcourt, Br. = Brandenburg, Ra. = Rank. Note: Brandenburg is not part of the Western Kingdom. Aquila: The large Chapter House of ‘The Hands of Truth’ is in the great city of Novalar The order prefers: Multi-Hex Strike, Force Back, Feint Attack, Rear Cut, Spinning Rocks, Waterfall of Stones, Mattock of Pain, Tidal Blow, Storm of Blood, Hands of Truth and Single Hand of Truth From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 12:04:27 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA24462; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:04:27 +1300 Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA24459 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:04:26 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA21012 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:55:06 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <36D1E17F.F2A4E3C5@games.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:00:16 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Jonno Fighting 8.0 - Skill only or Quasi-magical. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jono Bean To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Phil Judd wrote: > Subject: > Skill only or Quasi-magical. > > Except two I see that seem rather out of place. > > 1. Gabriels Blade. > 2. Light of life. > > Everything else seems to be skilled ways of hurting one or more opponents. True all but the two listed above could just be great skill. > Do these two "Weapon Abilities" seem appropriate ? - They may be better > defined as magical effects or gifts from practicing followers of various > powers. Phil is correct in that the point of putting them in is to show that the system isn't just bound to what we think of as "normal fighting skill" and can have some almost magic like effects in them. Jono -- Circle Games - PBM Telephone (649) 828-2959 Facsimile (649) 828-2759 Email jono@games.co.nz Website http://www.games.co.nz Circle Games PO Box 105-320 Auckand 1030 New Zealand "Mac vs. PCs" is the same as saying "Art vs. Commerce". -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 12:20:14 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA24484; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:14 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA24481 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:13 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA145590919725291 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:14:51 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <009001be5eb8$d20ca4f0$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Fighting initail comment. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:12:29 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I am unfortunatly no going to have time for a fine tooth combing of the whole skill for a while but one thing I noted when I read through breifly. The schools portion at the end seems a little vague and not really tied up. And since it seems to be a control to govern what abilities are available I think some more detail would be good. Is it currently there as a guide style thing for people to base their own schools on or is it a complete guide? It also seems that the schools are there to pehaps stop certain combinations of the added skills, is it possible to know where the potential problematic combinations are? Also are there any plans for unarmed combat manouvers? As I have several martial arts cults out there that I use. Mandos -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 12:35:49 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA24509; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:35:49 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (fwuser@fw.worley.co.nz [202.135.112.130]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA24506 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:35:45 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256721.00035A9D ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:36:38 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256721.0002A00B.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:30:19 +1200 Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Also are there any plans for unarmed combat manouvers? As I have several >martial arts cults out there that I use. There are a few characters who have various martial art type abilities gained from GMs over the years. Mike's character Neyden and Mark Harrisons character Kree(p) spring to mind. Whether or not martial arts is a desirable thing in DQ is another question. L8R, Adam. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 12:56:46 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA24536; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:56:46 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA24533 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:56:45 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA248390919727484 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:51:24 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <00b501be5ebd$ecbbc0b0$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:49:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>Also are there any plans for unarmed combat manouvers? As I have several >>martial arts cults out there that I use. > >There are a few characters who have various martial art type abilities >gained from GMs over the years. > >Mike's character Neyden and Mark Harrisons character Kree(p) spring to >mind. > >Whether or not martial arts is a desirable thing in DQ is another question. If weapon combat is to become a move based ability combat with styles and interest why should Unarmed stay dull and boring? Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 13:25:38 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA24583; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:25:38 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (fwuser@fw.worley.co.nz [202.135.112.130]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA24580 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:25:36 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C256721.0007EE53 ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:26:37 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C256721.00070F0F.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:20:17 +1200 Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>Whether or not martial arts is a desirable thing in DQ is another question. >If weapon combat is to become a move based ability combat with styles and >interest why should Unarmed stay dull and boring? That was a bit unclear. I agree that Unarmed should be more interesting, but what I meant to ask was if eastern style martial arts in DQ are desirable. Of course there are the Erelhein who obviously have eastern style martial arts. Perhaps a brawling/pugilism style? I just don't want to see a repeat of the last attempt at unarmed which was a shocker. It will be very difficult to come up with something simple and workable for unarmed because of the myriad range of options you have and the free form nature of it. L8R, Adam. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 13:42:43 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA24609; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:42:43 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA24606 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:42:42 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA072010919730228 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:37:08 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <00cd01be5ec4$54ab5c70$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:34:35 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I agree that Unarmed should be more interesting, but what I meant to ask >was if eastern style martial arts in DQ are desirable. > >Of course there are the Erelhein who obviously have eastern style >martial arts. Perhaps a brawling/pugilism style? > >I just don't want to see a repeat of the last attempt at unarmed which was >a shocker. > >It will be very difficult to come up with something simple and workable for >unarmed because of the myriad range of options you have and the free form >nature of it. The point is that with this weapon system it allows the addition of the strange and interesting fighting styles to become available. With an enhancement of the unarmed rules along the same lines as the weapon skills, unarmed combat becomes a viable option for characters. Gurps has quite a good range of abilities and actions that could provide the basis for a few eastern styles and perhaps wrestling and boxing styles for those not wanting an eastern flavour. As for the desirablity of it's presence the eastern martial arts style fighting forms a populor part of our media culture which is one of the sources for game idea's and the more variety the better. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 13:49:22 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA24634; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:49:22 +1300 Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA24631 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:49:21 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA24814 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:39:59 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <36D1F92D.A17E47A6@games.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:41:17 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jono Bean To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > The schools portion at the end seems a little vague and not really tied up. > And since it seems to be a control to govern what abilities are available I > think some more detail would be good. Um you are right in that it (the schools etc) isn't finished. Other GMs shouldread over the fighting stuff and send me what stuff they would like to put in it that they already have - cults fighting orders groups etc... and I put them in. > Is it currently there as a guide style thing for people to base their own > schools on or is it a complete guide? Yes > It also seems that the schools are there to pehaps stop certain combinations > of the added skills, is it possible to know where the potential problematic > combinations are? Yes. I feel the abilities with the higher number 2, 3 and 4 in the LVL column are going tobe the problem areas. Also if you look at the Quick Sheet in the PDF version, any value over 100,000 EP in the "Rank 10" column is of note. > Also are there any plans for unarmed combat manouvers? As I have several > martial arts cults out there that I use. I had some plans but a GMs meeting last year told me to just work on melee combatstuff first and once that was _working_ then do the unarmed comabt stuff it it all works togeather well. The other thing to note is that Unarmed is just a C class weapon rated for use in Melee and Close combat. If we think of it just as another weapon then the current (in the fighting skill ver 0.8) C class abilities will work with it. I think we should move Unarmed out of C class and make it differant, and give it some abilities of its own. If any others wish to do Unarmed Combat in the same format as the Weapon Abilities that I have listed at the moment, I'll edit what you give me into the document. Jono Circle Games - PBM Telephone (649) 828-2959 Facsimile (649) 828-2759 Email jono@games.co.nz Website http://www.games.co.nz Circle Games PO Box 105-320 Auckand 1030 New Zealand "Mac vs. PCs" is the same as saying "Art vs. Commerce". -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 14:11:01 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA24664; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:11:01 +1300 Received: from aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id OAA24661 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:11:00 +1300 Received: by aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id CC256721.000BB2BD ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:46 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ARMSTRONG JONES Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:07:43 +1200 Subject: Re: Fighting Quasi Magical? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: rmansfield@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I also think that fighting should be a NON-magical skill. I am quite opposed to making it quasi-maigcal. That is what spells are for. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 14:17:25 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA24683; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:17:25 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA24680 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:17:25 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA168330919732321 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:12:01 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <00dc01be5ec9$2fa9fee0$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Fighting Quasi Magical? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:09:38 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I also think that fighting should be a NON-magical skill. I am quite opposed >to making it quasi-maigcal. That is what spells are for. Like healer and ranger and so on :-) I don't think the addition of some quasi-magical abilities at the high end of the warrior spectrum is going to cause a problem and if tied in to a school of fighting can add a good amount of flavour. Surely the monks of the michelines can have a funky ability at their top levels without breaking the system :-) Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 14:19:43 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA24702; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:19:43 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA24697 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:19:40 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id OAA13154 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:14:16 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902230114.OAA13154@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:14:30 +0000 Subject: Fumbles X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear all, Further to the God's meeting suggestion (to amalgamet drops, breaks, fumbles into 1 simple chance for every combat roll, & one table to check results). Attached, please find the draft of 2 word documents Rules modifications to Combat, etc and Tables (55.5 & 55.6) regards, Michael Michael Parkinson Information Services A/L Science Library, University of Auckland. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 14:19:51 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA24711; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:19:51 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA24704 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:19:47 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id OAA13161 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:14:17 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <199902230114.OAA13161@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:14:29 +0000 X-pmuue: Tables.doc X-finfo: DOS,"Tables.doc",,,,Unknown Subject: Fumbles X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz * This message contains the file 'Tables.doc', which has been * uuencoded. If you are using Pegasus Mail, then you can use * the browser's eXtract function to lift the original contents * out to a file, otherwise you will have to extract the message * and uudecode it manually. begin 660 Tables.doc MT,\1X*&Q&N$`````````````````````/@`#`/[_"0`&```````````````! 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M`````P```#@``@'_______________\=`````````!T```!<`%P`;`!I`&(` M<@!A`'(`>0!S`&4`<@`<`````!```&T`+@`!`$,`;P!M`'``3P!B`&H````D M````0P````````````!T`````P!<`%P`;`!I`&(`<@!A`'(`>0!S`&4`<@!V M$@`"`/_______________P!K`&D`;@!S`&\`;@`D`%P`5P!)```````````` M``````````````!J`````%(`=0!L`&4` To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear all, > I don't think the addition of some quasi-magical abilities at the high end > of the warrior spectrum is going to cause a problem and if tied in to a > school of fighting can add a good amount of flavour. Surely the monks of the > michelines can have a funky ability at their top levels without breaking the > system :-) Maybe. Actually, I think those in the know realise that its *obviously* a magical ability gained because they've sold their souls. Its a fundamental fact which is *still* true, no matter how many people the Michaelines or Michelins put to the sword or fire. Similarly, rumoured eastern monks who have undergone years of apprenticeship, and indulge in various rituals (and other aspects of mysticism) are clearly indulging in magic or quasimagic as a profession or lifestyle choice -- rather than a "mere" military skill. regards, michael Michael Parkinson Information Services A/L Science Library, University of Auckland. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 14:35:24 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA24774; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:35:24 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id OAA24771 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:35:22 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id OAA10910; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:29:59 +1300 Message-ID: <36D206F4.292FC094@peace.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:40:05 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Fighting initail comment. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz amtennant@worley.co.nz wrote: > I agree that Unarmed should be more interesting, but what I meant to ask > was if eastern style martial arts in DQ are desirable. > > Of course there are the Erelhein who obviously have eastern style > martial arts. And the question becomes -- should such a specific area/style be part of the main DQ rules or should it be an optional expansion? The fighting styles of Kinlu are obviously Japanese in origin and flavour, and I am not at all sure that we want this as the main-stream DQ flavour -- and this goes for both armed and unarmed styles. It is for this reason that I am unsure of the wisdom of including fighting skills such as arrow-cutting or ones with eastern sounding names, "waterfall of stones" and the like. Western Alusian unarmed should perhaps incl;ude boxing, wrestling and brawling styles. How much detial is needed? I don't know, but unarmed should not have much more to it than as if it was a weapon (or one for boxing, one for wrestling, etc). The general flavour of DQ combat is one of armed and armoured combatants like Ladyhawke, Excalibur, perhaps even Conan and the Three Musketeers... but not a kung-fu movie. > Perhaps a brawling/pugilism style? A lot of brawling and "pub fighting" can be recreated with 2 weapons: crude club and rock. Crude clubs are large and unwieldy but can still be thrown and work well for representing chairs and similar items, rock works well for tankards and bottles and other smaller items. My dwarf also has Cestus highly ranked... becuase he habitually err.. "forgets" to remove his plate gauntlets before punching people. Boxing could easily be represented as a single weapon, the differences between the various punches are at a finer granularity than the combat system need worry about. This could replace Cestus, which is in effect simply wearing knuckle dusters while punching. Wrestling is more tricky if the various pins and holds are represented -- perhaps someone has a brilliant idea for this.... > I just don't want to see a repeat of the last attempt at unarmed which was > a shocker. Yep. > It will be very difficult to come up with something simple and workable for > unarmed because of the myriad range of options you have and the free form > nature of it. To a point, I think. We don't represent rapier fighting any way close to how it works, and we certainly don't worry if it was a parry "en quartre" (sp?) or whatever... we just "whack 'em"... and whilst the fighting doc is intended to making whacking 'em more interesting unarmed need not be treated as an extra special case -- it need only be as detailed as other combat forms. Cheers, Martin -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 15:41:16 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA24861; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:41:16 +1300 Received: from exchange.telebusiness.co.nz ([203.97.136.3] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA24858 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:41:15 +1300 Received: by proxy.telebusiness.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) id ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:35:38 +1300 Message-ID: <01FAE6CB4A43D0118AB00020AF0F9257609C98@proxy.telebusiness.co.nz> Subject: RE: Fighting initail comment. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:35:36 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) Content-Type: text/plain From: Terry Spencer To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > The point is that with this weapon system it allows the addition of the > strange and interesting fighting styles to become available. With an > enhancement of the unarmed rules along the same lines as the weapon > skills, > unarmed combat becomes a viable option for characters. > > Unarmed is a C class weapon and would surely be treated like all other C class. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Feb 23 15:49:20 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA24884; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:49:20 +1300 Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA24881 for ; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:49:19 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA00264 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:39:53 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <36D215D2.3933665E@games.co.nz> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:43:30 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Jono Fighting 8.0 - Error Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jono Bean To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Hi All, Here is the first typo in the fighting skill ver 0.8 that I've spoted. Over Rank should be "Any class" of weapon not just "C class" weapons. Jono Circle Games - PBM Mob 021 649 628 Facsimile (649) 828-2759 Email jono@games.co.nz Website http://www.games.co.nz Circle Games PO Box 105-320 Auckand 1030 New Zealand "Mac vs. PCs" is the same as saying "Art vs. Commerce". -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --