From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 08:39:06 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id IAA08101; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:39:06 +1300 Received: from fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz ([203.98.14.148] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id IAA08098 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:39:05 +1300 Received: from falaklnt000.falum.co.nz ([10.8.1.20]) by fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id nz for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:27:27 +1300 Received: by falaklnt000.falum.co.nz with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BE66E2.B4135340@falaklnt000.falum.co.nz>; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:28 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Echosense Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:26 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Lots of people said they didn't think Echosense should be in the Bardic college. The issue then kind of stopped. This seemed like the logical next step to test that notion. We can't playtest not using it. What should we do to explore whether Echosense should be in Bardic? I thought an arbitrary vote following discussion on the web was the only way we made decisions on anything. This seemed even more appropriate in light of Bard being probationary. I humbly await instruction on the correct procedures to follow. :) Andrew ---------- 2) Rules Voting Issues Remove Echosense from Bardic - Andrew W. *** Surely we can't arbitarily vote to remove a spell from a college? What happened to discussion about the probationary status of Bard (and Ice) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 10:42:19 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA08421; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:42:19 +1300 Received: from bo.nznet.gen.nz (ns1.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.34]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA08418 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:42:17 +1300 Received: from takitimu.co.nz (ms2-57.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.187]) by bo.nznet.gen.nz (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA31999 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:30:48 +1300 Received: from takitimu.co.nz by takitimu.co.nz; Fri, 05 Mar 99 10:29:32 +1300 Message-ID: <36DEFC0A.531AFB9D@takitimu.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:36:44 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DQ Gods Meeting Agenda: March 1999 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kelsie To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: kelsie@takitimu.co.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz > 2) Rules Voting Issues > > Remove Echosense from Bardic - Andrew W. > > *** Surely we can't arbitarily vote to remove a spell from a college? Of course we can. What > happened to discussion about the probationary status of Bard (and Ice) This is part of that discussion, to "fix" the college so that is can come out of probation. THe final "discussion"/vote is due June. Kelsie PS I have a similar problem (tech/sound rather than emotion/perfromance) about the "Cone of Silence" -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 12:49:28 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA08635; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:49:28 +1300 Received: from exchange.telebusiness.co.nz ([203.97.136.3] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA08632 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:49:27 +1300 Received: by proxy.telebusiness.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) id ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:38:27 +1300 Message-ID: <01FAE6CB4A43D0118AB00020AF0F9257609CE3@proxy.telebusiness.co.nz> Subject: RE: Echosense Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:38:24 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Terry Spencer To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Lots of people said they didn't think Echosense should be in the >Bardic college. The issue then kind of stopped. This seemed like the >logical next step to test that notion. We can't playtest not using it. Well, I believe you can. The effect of the absence of an ability for the college is necessary to check. How does the college now performs with the withdrawl of the ability, is a replacement required? No testing is required given the time. >What should we do to explore whether Echosense should be in Bardic? I >thought an arbitrary vote following discussion on the web was the only >way we made decisions on anything. This seemed even more appropriate >in light of Bard being probationary. I thought that the 2 year probationary preiod has ended for both Ice and Bard. I believed, someone tell me if I'm wrong, that a vote is now necessary to determine the future of these colleges. i.e. Vote in, remove, stay probationary...whatever. More importantly, the vote is to be made on the current state of the colleges as they currently stand, any and all changes should have been made before this date. People at the meeting have had the last 3 months to decide what they think of the college, if arbitary changes are made, I believe people aren't provided suffient time, the meeting, to really decide upon the college as a whole. Terry -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 12:55:13 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA08661; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:55:13 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA08658 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:55:12 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA032650920591053 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:44:13 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <014a01be6698$80b74870$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Echosense Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:41:18 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I thought that the 2 year probationary period has ended for both Ice and >Bard. I believed, someone tell me if I'm wrong, that a vote is now >necessary to determine the future of these colleges. i.e. Vote in, remove, >stay probationary...whatever. >More importantly, the vote is to be made on the current state of the >colleges as they currently stand, any and all changes should have been made >before this date. Personally I would have thought that the very nature of the the fact that people are still aguing over it is an indication that the collage is not ready fo release. The vote should therefore be to ditch it or to continue work on it. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:20:46 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08689; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:20:46 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (fwuser@fw.worley.co.nz [202.135.112.130]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA08686 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:20:43 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C25672B.000778B3 ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:21:36 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C25672B.00061A29.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:09:39 +1200 Subject: Re: Echosense Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I thought that the 2 year probationary period has ended for both Ice and >Bard. I believed, someone tell me if I'm wrong, that a vote is now >necessary to determine the future of these colleges. i.e. Vote in, remove, >stay probationary...whatever. >Personally I would have thought that the very nature of the the fact that >people are still aguing over it is an indication that the collage is not ^^^^^^^ >ready fo release. The vote should therefore be to ditch it or to continue >work on it. Well, it's obviously not ready if it's still a 'collage'. It's probably only been glued together. :P ( sorry George, couldn't resist - it's been a hard week ) L8R, Adam. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:35:23 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08712; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:35:23 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA08709 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:35:22 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id NAA13054; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:24:23 +1300 Message-ID: <36DF26C2.DD910A60@peace.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:35:15 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Echosense Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------892C3FDC6815210276A3DB66" From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------892C3FDC6815210276A3DB66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > Personally I would have thought that the very nature of the the fact that > people are still aguing over it is an indication that the collage is not > ready fo release. The vote should therefore be to ditch it or to continue > work on it. It could also be suggested that if the only arguments are about two spells: Echosense and Great Shout, then the college is is a far better state than many other areas of the rules. Cheers, Martin --------------892C3FDC6815210276A3DB66 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="martin.dickson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Dickson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="martin.dickson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Dickson;Martin tel;fax:+64-9-373 0401 tel;work:+64-9-373 0400 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Peace Software International;Software Development version:2.1 email;internet:martin.dickson@peace.com title:Team Leader adr;quoted-printable:;;Peace Tower =0D=0ASt. Martins Lane;Auckland;;;New Zealand fn:Martin Dickson end:vcard --------------892C3FDC6815210276A3DB66-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:44:23 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08736; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:44:23 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA08733 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:44:22 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA170170920594000 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:33:20 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <016001be669f$5d9bfe10$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Echosense Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:30:24 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >It could also be suggested that if the only arguments are about two spells: >Echosense and Great Shout, then the college is is a far better state than many >other areas of the rules. I thought a lot of the arguing a little while ago was more along the lines of what the focus of the college was sound vs performing. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:41:36 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08730; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:41:36 +1300 Received: from fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (fep1-orange.clear.net.nz [203.97.32.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA08727 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:41:35 +1300 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141]) by fep1-orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.11) with ESMTP id NAA15404; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:30:36 +1300 (NZDT) Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:30:00 +1300 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC0B85D4@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: Probation Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:29:59 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Setting the probationary status was a compromise and also a way of regaining perspective. The arguments were getting heated, circular, and ultimately pointless. Some people wanted them in, some wanted them out, some were willing to discuss details, and others weren't interested at all. The idea was to put them into play as is for 2 years without any changes or tweaks and then re-address the issue with a hopefully calmer perspective. So in theory nothing should be changed at all in any of the three colleges, they should be played as is until the next rulebook comes out either: a) With them included as is. b) With them excluded. c) With them modified. We need to decide for each of these colleges what will be in the next rulebook. And if they are in what status they will have. I suggest that we aim at making this decision at the April gods meeting. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Terry Spencer [SMTP:terry@telebusiness.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:38 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Echosense > > I thought that the 2 year probationary preiod has ended for both Ice > and > Bard. I believed, someone tell me if I'm wrong, that a vote is now > necessary to determine the future of these colleges. i.e. Vote in, > remove, > stay probationary...whatever. > More importantly, the vote is to be made on the current state of the > colleges as they currently stand, any and all changes should have been > made > before this date. > > People at the meeting have had the last 3 months to decide what they > think > of the college, if arbitary changes are made, I believe people aren't > provided suffient time, the meeting, to really decide upon the college > as a > whole. > > Terry > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:54:05 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08779; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:54:05 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA08776 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:54:02 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id NAA14076; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:43:02 +1300 Message-ID: <36DF2B21.7B14AD0C@peace.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:53:53 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Echosense Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3C88A12E8AD91A881933595B" From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3C88A12E8AD91A881933595B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Terry Spencer wrote: > I believed, someone tell me if I'm wrong, that a vote is now > necessary to determine the future of these colleges. i.e. Vote in, remove, > stay probationary...whatever. You aren't wrong, there just seems to be some difference of opinion over exactly _when_ the decision is due. > More importantly, the vote is to be made on the current state of the > colleges as they currently stand, any and all changes should have been made > before this date. Err... so we either vote them in warts and all, trusting that the warts might get removed (perhaps even with the next vote in the meeting) or we vote them out, in part by pointing at the warts and saying "Owww, Ugly". Old adages about "chickens and eggs" and "babies and bathwater" spring to mind. Cheers, Martin --------------3C88A12E8AD91A881933595B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="martin.dickson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Dickson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="martin.dickson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Dickson;Martin tel;fax:+64-9-373 0401 tel;work:+64-9-373 0400 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Peace Software International;Software Development version:2.1 email;internet:martin.dickson@peace.com title:Team Leader adr;quoted-printable:;;Peace Tower =0D=0ASt. Martins Lane;Auckland;;;New Zealand fn:Martin Dickson end:vcard --------------3C88A12E8AD91A881933595B-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:56:15 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08792; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:56:15 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA08789 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:56:12 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id NAA14175; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:45:09 +1300 Message-ID: <36DF2BA0.76829FDB@peace.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:56:00 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Echosense Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7D653339D2A7B962B33FE672" From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7D653339D2A7B962B33FE672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > >It could also be suggested that if the only arguments are about two spells: > >Echosense and Great Shout, then the college is is a far better state than > many > >other areas of the rules. > > I thought a lot of the arguing a little while ago was more along the lines > of what the focus of the college was sound vs performing. Well, more sound vs. music/communication, but sure, and those two spells were at the heart of the argument. Remove Echosense, fix the problems with Great Shout and there is less area of conflict. Cheers, Martin --------------7D653339D2A7B962B33FE672 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="martin.dickson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Dickson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="martin.dickson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Dickson;Martin tel;fax:+64-9-373 0401 tel;work:+64-9-373 0400 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Peace Software International;Software Development version:2.1 email;internet:martin.dickson@peace.com title:Team Leader adr;quoted-printable:;;Peace Tower =0D=0ASt. Martins Lane;Auckland;;;New Zealand fn:Martin Dickson end:vcard --------------7D653339D2A7B962B33FE672-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 13:57:52 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA08809; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:52 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA08806 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:50 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id NAA14266; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:46:50 +1300 Message-ID: <36DF2C05.D1D7E4D0@peace.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:57:41 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Probation Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------EC78575806D56CD3D6699A3C" From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EC78575806D56CD3D6699A3C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stephen Martin wrote: > So in theory nothing should be changed at all in any of the three > colleges, they should be played as is until the next rulebook comes out > either: > a) With them included as is. > b) With them excluded. > c) With them modified. And even if a vote on the inclusion or exclusion of Echosense is taken now it will have no effect until the rulebook -- assuming that Bard goes in at all. Cheers, Martin --------------EC78575806D56CD3D6699A3C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="martin.dickson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Dickson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="martin.dickson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Dickson;Martin tel;fax:+64-9-373 0401 tel;work:+64-9-373 0400 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Peace Software International;Software Development version:2.1 email;internet:martin.dickson@peace.com title:Team Leader adr;quoted-printable:;;Peace Tower =0D=0ASt. Martins Lane;Auckland;;;New Zealand fn:Martin Dickson end:vcard --------------EC78575806D56CD3D6699A3C-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 14:07:28 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA08834; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:07:28 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA08831 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:07:27 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA229690920595380 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:56:21 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <017201be66a2$956a4f60$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Echosense Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:53:23 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> More importantly, the vote is to be made on the current state of the >> colleges as they currently stand, any and all changes should have been made >> before this date. > >Err... so we either vote them in warts and all, trusting that the warts might >get removed (perhaps even with the next vote in the meeting) or we vote them >out, in part by pointing at the warts and saying "Owww, Ugly". > >Old adages about "chickens and eggs" and "babies and bathwater" spring to mind. I dunno why we bother arguing bung em in and the 2 or 3 people who care about them will either play them or they will be slowly exterminated by time and GM's who don't like them. Considering the people I have spoken to about it most people are not interested. So we may as well put them in play safe in the knowledge that with so little interest they will only have a minorly destructive impact on the game and it will stop those who do want them from whinging about it. They will happily become just another minority group, and we can all be happy we added choice and options to the game. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 14:27:08 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA08873; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:27:08 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id OAA08870 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:27:07 +1300 Received: via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/pcnz2.7) id OAA15679; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:16:07 +1300 Message-ID: <36DF32E2.3D8AC9F9@peace.co.nz> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:26:59 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Echosense Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------D91EA86FF336D790956C09E2" From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D91EA86FF336D790956C09E2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > I dunno why we bother arguing bung em in and the 2 or 3 people who care > about them will either play them or they will be slowly exterminated by time > and GM's who don't like them. > > [snip] > They will happily become just another minority group, and we can all be > happy we added choice and options to the game. You can give back my cynical hat now that you've finished with it :) You may well be right... in which case I guess I have two open questions: 1) Should we be bothering to try and add choice and options? 2) If these colleges aren't the sort of thing that people want, then what are the desired things? One observation -- new colleges only have any effect for new characters... they do not increase the choices or options for existing, long-played and well loved PCs who are butting their heads on the walls of the system. Cheers, Martin --------------D91EA86FF336D790956C09E2 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="martin.dickson.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Martin Dickson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="martin.dickson.vcf" begin:vcard n:Dickson;Martin tel;fax:+64-9-373 0401 tel;work:+64-9-373 0400 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Peace Software International;Software Development version:2.1 email;internet:martin.dickson@peace.com title:Team Leader adr;quoted-printable:;;Peace Tower =0D=0ASt. Martins Lane;Auckland;;;New Zealand fn:Martin Dickson end:vcard --------------D91EA86FF336D790956C09E2-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 14:37:35 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA08906; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:37:35 +1300 Received: from letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.35.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA08903 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:37:34 +1300 Received: from andrewlpc (andrew-l-pc.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.34.146]) by letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (8.8.6/8.8.6/cs-master) with SMTP id OAA22852 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:26:34 +1300 (sender andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990305143059.00950ce0@staffpop.cs.auckland.ac.nz> X-Sender: andrew-l@staffpop.cs.auckland.ac.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:30:59 +1300 Subject: New Colleges Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Andrew Luxton To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz At 14:26 5/03/99 +1300, you wrote: >One observation -- new colleges only have any effect for new characters... they >do not increase the choices or options for existing, long-played and well loved >PCs who are butting their heads on the walls of the system. The addition of new colleges adds plenty of options for namers. Each new college provides exactly 2 new options in fact :) Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Luxton andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz Department of Computer Science http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz University of Auckland Phone: +64 9 3737 599 x5654 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, NZ Fax: +64 9 3737 453 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 14:40:44 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA08943; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:40:44 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA08940 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:40:42 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA032340920597381 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:29:41 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <01b101be66a7$3bee09e0$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Echosense Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:26:45 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > You can give back my cynical hat now that you've finished with it :) Mandos apologises for stealing the cynical hat, hard day and no sleep is my only excuse. >You may well be right... in which case I guess I have two open questions: > >1) Should we be bothering to try and add choice and options? If we are we shouldn't spend so long arguing over it. Bard has been in the works now for 7 years or so. If it aint ready by now should we waste more time on it. Either way lets stop arguing over it. >2) If these colleges aren't the sort of thing that people want, then what are >the desired things? Personally I think Magic is pretty much covered, what we need are more character options and development in what is basically a sad tack on skills system. Ok DQ is a magic based system but I think we have grown out of that somewhat and we need to develop the other portion of the game for those who want a change from magic. >One observation -- new colleges only have any effect for new characters... they >do not increase the choices or options for existing, long-played and well loved >PCs who are butting their heads on the walls of the system. While changing the skills will enhance the game for all. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 14:38:23 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA08917; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:38:23 +1300 Received: from fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz ([203.98.14.148] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA08913 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:38:22 +1300 Received: from falaklnt000.falum.co.nz ([10.8.1.20]) by fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id nz for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:27:02 +1300 Received: by falaklnt000.falum.co.nz with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BE6715.0B132210@falaklnt000.falum.co.nz>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:32:49 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Bestiary Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:32:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Hi; I want to have a web space to host the bestiary. It is just like in the book at the moment, but will be polished over the forthcoming weeks. Could someone offer me a couple of MBs somewhere, and a link into the other sites? Thanks Andrew W -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 15:37:36 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA09130; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:37:36 +1300 Received: from smtp.worley.co.nz (fwuser@fw.worley.co.nz [202.135.112.130]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id PAA09127 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:37:32 +1300 Received: by smtp.worley.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4C25672B.0013FF38 ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:38:25 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WORLEY CONSULTANTS Message-ID: <4C25672B.00127EC0.00@smtp.worley.co.nz> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:26:03 +1200 Subject: Re: Bestiary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: amtennant@worley.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Hi; >I want to have a web space to host the bestiary. It is just like in >the book at the moment, but will be polished over the forthcoming >weeks. Could someone offer me a couple of MBs somewhere, and a link >into the other sites? You can use some space on my Geocities site. I'm doing a revamp of it at the moment so I'll put in a page for it. I've got 5Mb of space and I'm only using 2 or 3 of it. The only hassle is that I don't have a domain name so its URL is: www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/4811 :( Contact me and we'll sort it out. L8R, Adam. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 16:25:59 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA09422; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:25:59 +1300 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA09419 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:25:58 +1300 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA044650920603692 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:14:53 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <01cd01be66b5$ee850000$0d64a8c0@mandos.iconz> Subject: Re: Bestiary Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:11:56 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I want to have a web space to host the bestiary. It is just like in >the book at the moment, but will be polished over the forthcoming >weeks. Could someone offer me a couple of MBs somewhere, and a link >into the other sites? I have pretty much unlimited space as long as it does not get too large. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 18:08:46 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA09533; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:08:46 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA09530 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:08:44 +1300 Received: from [206.17.116.206] (p14-max8.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.116.206]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16696 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:57:38 +1300 Message-Id: <199903050457.RAA16696@smtp2.ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:51:54 +1300 Subject: RE: Bardic College From: flamis@pop.ihug.co.nz (Jacqui Smith) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >The adept by means of this spell generates a sound like the roar of an >angry lion in a volume extending from the adept's mouth in a cone-shaped >zone extending to the limit of the range, > >and with a diameter at the far end equal to that range. > >This is an awfully large area. >eg. >at Rk 6 the cone extends 7 hexes an is 7 hexes wide at the far end, covering >an area of about 24 hexes. >at Rk 10 the cone extends 11 hexes an is 11 hexes wide at the far end, >covering an area of about 60 hexes . >was this the intention? I was trying for a cone effect - which is rare in DQ, and was suggested as appropriate for the Bard thing. To make it easy to admininster I went for an equilateral triangle, which sits nicely on the hex grid. It might be worthwhile pointing out that the new version of dflames has the same style of cone effect and is far more directly destructive... Jacqui -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 19:05:44 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA09597; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:44 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA09594 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:43 +1300 Received: from [206.17.119.12] (p12-max17.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.119.12]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22163 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:54:36 +1300 Message-Id: <199903050554.SAA22163@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: flamis@pop.ihug.co.nz (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:48:51 +1300 Subject: Re: Bardic College From: flamis@pop.ihug.co.nz (Jacqui Smith) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >You can hear a lion for miles at night - that is the idea. Why can you only >hear this kitten for 5 feet?? You can hear it further away of course. It's just the magical effect that has a limited range. >Sound is not cone shaped. I can hear people beside me. It may not be perfectly >circular but that is close enough. I would have thought a circle or rectangle >would be easier to manage and would have depowered the spell by endangering >'friendly targets'. I was following other's ideas in that one, without fully thinking it through. >The point of ventriloquism is not that the sound only occurs at one point - >that would be whispering -but rather to produce speech without moving one's >lips. So to say you are deafening someone for minutes is a little over the >top. It's a combination of effects... Ventriloquism plus magically enhanced volume. >In general, I think that the discussion train of thought was going in the >corect direction. Bardic is about song and emotion, not sound. > >Sound based magics seem to me to have more of an 'elemental' flavour. An >elementalist plays with ice, water, air. So if you manipulate sound then it >should be an elementalist college But that means getting rid of the emotional >aspects. > >Basically Jackie, I feel that the consensus is against the bardic college >being everything you can dream up. Either have a 'song and emotion' Bardic >college, or have a 'sound' based elemental college. Why? Are not both reasonably aspects of Bardic magic? I don't see this need to narrow it down to one or the other. The problem with song-based magic is that it's too easy to wind up with something akin to the Rolemaster Bardic Base lists - a song for every purpose. I especially do not want to go that way... >***In Summary*** >We should spend the next three months of Bardic's life in identifying what the >college is about (Should take about 5 minutes) and what magics are associated >with that (about one hour), where the remaing spell ideas should go (about 20 >minutes) and examine the remaining spells (about 2 hours). > >Thus in one 4 hour work shop we should be able to 'fix' Bardic. I have no objection to such a workshop... >Of course we could just do it all on the discussion page and ask for votes :) I haven't noticed that working especially well thus far... Jacqui -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 19:05:48 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA09602; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:48 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA09599 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:46 +1300 Received: from [206.17.119.12] (p12-max17.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.119.12]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA22166; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:54:39 +1300 Message-Id: <199903050554.SAA22166@smtp1.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: flamis@pop.ihug.co.nz (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:48:54 +1300 Subject: Shell of Silence From: flamis@pop.ihug.co.nz (Jacqui Smith) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >>PS I have a similar problem (tech/sound rather than emotion/perfromance) >about the "Cone of Silence" Firstly, it's "Shell of Silence"; and the derivation is the AD&D "Silence 10' radius" spell, not whatever technological innovation you've connected it with. I'm sorry, but the continual complaint of creeping technology when spells are discussed is starting to annoy me. I have no more desire to see DQ loaded down with technobabble than the next person, but I don't see how anyone can be expected to be aware of all the possible technological connections that a dozen other people can think of. Jacqui -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Mar 5 21:19:47 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id VAA09699; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:19:47 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id VAA09696 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:19:46 +1300 Received: from p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz (p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.117.118]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA30815 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:08:34 +1300 Received: by p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz with Microsoft Mail id <01BE674C.86669DC0@p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:09:58 +1300 Message-ID: <01BE674C.86669DC0@p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz> Subject: RE: Shell of Silence Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:09:06 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.866E3EE0" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_=26_Ellen__Hume=A0?= To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.866E3EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi there, I do not think of Bardic as a problem of techno-babble but rather as a = case of over indulgence. People have complained that Bardic is too large and varied. but no one = has said what would be left if we cut out the sound/silence stuff. would = we have an excellent college song and emotion college??. Jackie - reading teh lists I get teh impression that you are trying to = achieve too many things in one college (somthing I was accused of with = Mind many years ago, quite rightly actually. ) :) I am unmoved by your earlier replies, though I thank you for them.=20 Rarely as I agree with Kelsie, she has hit teh nail correctly several = times now. forget the techo analogy, but look at the basis for = sound-magics in this college. It is rightly here? Mandos pointed out that you spent 5 years getting this college through. = The fact that there are still seriuos concerns about the focus of teh = college suggests that we were somewhat lax in our procedures then, and = should have insisted on measuring teh spells against a rational college = concept. (just like I do at work (sorry Martin couldn't resist that one = :)) Still, and all, I would prefer to have tried adn removed a dud, than = not have tried at all (afterall, Phil did have fun dropping elephants on = NPCs before they took away his Lesser Summoner) Actually, I voted for this college on the recommendation of certain GMs. = They later said that they advocated it, just to see it fail later. They = beleived that two years of play test would see this college killed. So my advice Jacky, is that if you do not want these GMS to vote the = college out of existence, then you had better start offereing analyses = of how teh suggested re-focusing of teh college would end up. (gosh, = just like we do for any strategic change, right (?) :) ) cheers Ian -----Original Message----- From: Jacqui Smith [SMTP:flamis@ihug.co.nz] Sent: 05 March 1999 18:49 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Shell of Silence >>PS I have a similar problem (tech/sound rather than = ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.866E3EE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjoIAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5u egBTTVRQAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2RxQGRxLnNmLm9y Zy5ueicAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkRRQERRLlNGLk9SRy5OWgAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAHgD2XwEAAAAQAAAAZHFAZHEuc2Yub3JnLm56AAIB918BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1u AN0BD1QCAAAAAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegBTTVRQAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegAAAAADAP1fAQAA 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<01BE674C.841B2720@p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:09:54 +1300 Message-ID: <01BE674C.841B2720@p54-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: New Bardic Colleges Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:48:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.84244EE0" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_=26_Ellen__Hume=A0?= To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.84244EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (well Martin, just look at teh healthy, focused debate that has been = generated on bardic :) ) er... the limitation of effect to new characters isn't quite right. the = impact on teh NPC market may be quite large. As we interact with a large number of these fine gentlemen and ladies, = it may be worth thinking through what new college magics will do. for example, what will echo sense do for targeting in darkness - can = some one remind me who the barstard is that has darkness at rank 20 = (Damien??), he'll be for it, you mark my words. :) and shout of teh kitten, no targeting required...make mine a rank = 15...:))) **** I think teh modest consensus is that that Bardic is ok, but that it is = trying to do too many things. I see the ranting over two spells as a symptom that few understand or = agree on teh basis of teh College. May be that is a good sign, that we = are focused on teh working end. Can we assume that sound based magic is properly part of the Air = college, and maybe teh water college (when they are in water, which is = @#$% of teh time), as they know how to manipulate air to produce sound. Now can we agree to resolve the tricky spells by shifting them to AIR? That would leave two nicely balanced colleges focused nicely at song / = emotion and sound / air. (oh yes, and get that jerico balonie out of here!) cheers Ian -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Luxton [SMTP:andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz] Sent: 05 March 1999 14:31 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: New Colleges At 14:26 5/03/99 +1300, you wrote: >One observation -- new colleges only have any effect for new = characters... they >do not increase the choices or options for existing, long-played and = well loved >PCs who are butting their heads on the walls of the system. The addition of new colleges adds plenty of options for namers. Each = new college provides exactly 2 new options in fact :) Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Luxton andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz =20 Department of Computer Science http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz University of Auckland Phone: +64 9 3737 599 x5654=20 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, NZ Fax: +64 9 3737 453 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE674C.84244EE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjYIAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAgAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAPQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5u egBTTVRQAGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAEAAA AGRxQGRxLnNmLm9yZy5uegADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAASAAAAJ2RxQGRxLnNmLm9y Zy5ueicAAAACAQswAQAAABUAAABTTVRQOkRRQERRLlNGLk9SRy5OWgAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB 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