From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 10:02:20 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA29584; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:02:20 +1200 Received: from westpac.co.nz (firewall1.westpac.co.nz [210.55.236.18]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA29581 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:02:13 +1200 Received: by firewall1.westpac.co.nz id <32273>; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:53:26 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WESTPACTRUST Message-Id: <99Jun25.095326nzst.32273@firewall1.westpac.co.nz> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:56:44 +1200 Subject: Re: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: "Mark Simpson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz To me this issue is really very simple - imagine the wide-eyed first time player sitting with their first GM, asking about the spells their newly created mage character has - GM - "Well you have no special knowledge spells, but you do get all the general knowledge spells at rank zero!". Newbie - "Oh ... , so how do I work out my cast chances?" (GM shows player) "Hang-on, I've got more chance of backfiring most of these than actually casting them, how bad are backfires?" (GM explains) "Oh" (player read spell descriptions) "Some of these spells don't actually do anything at rank zero even if I successfully cast them. How do I increase ranks in spells?"(GM explains DQ ep system) "So I won't be able to rank anything for three months .... ". It seems self evident to me that if new players were able to rank a couple of spells/talents/rituals from their college that appealed to them (to the point where they thought they were worthwhile using them) that new player will feel they have more to do, more to offer the rest of the party, more opportunities to roleplay, and ultimately be more likely to enjoy the game and the whole experience. Whilst its all very well to to take the idealistic moral high ground that "numbers don't matter", I would contend that there is an element of the "power gamer" (we like our charcters to be good at something) in the best of us - even father Rowen seems to have crunched the numbers to optimise his hellfire... . There have been some interesting and potentially viable alternatives suggested, such as the GM allowing bunny players to do a week or so of ranking after 3-4 weeks into the game, but that may not suit the particular scenario the GM was running in all cases. Few other systems make new characters start with less and wait as long (3 months of realtime - 12+ sessions) before they can progress. In game realism terms why would an adept want to see foot outside their college when effectively they can't do anything (yes- there are some exceptions in some colleges). Surely they, and the guild that has invested time (6 months) and resources in training them would rather see them at least a bit better equiped for survival and to be able to assist the party? If you want say that learning a college takes more time so be it, at least some of that time can be said to be used in actually ranking some spells. /\/\ark -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 10:23:19 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA29620; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:23:19 +1200 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id KAA29617 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:23:18 +1200 Message-ID: <3772AD6D.1C0323DD@peace.com> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:13:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mark Simpson wrote: > To me this issue is really very simple - imagine the wide-eyed first time > player sitting with their first GM, asking about the spells their newly > created mage character has - [...] From people's responses so far, I think we could get broad acceptance of a policy like: 1) GM's have the option of giving first adventure characters a loan of EP and time. (Or I would slightly prefer a loan of EP and a limit on how much time can used in spending it. This avoids the problem of people using skills before they have learned them.) We can argue over the numbers, but I suggest something like 2000 ep, 4 weeks. 2) This option should be frequently used for first characters - i.e. new players. Where it is not used, there should usually be a training opportunity a few weeks into the session. 3) This option should be seldom used for non-first characters. (The player is used to waiting 3 months for advancement, and can live with it.) A possible exception is when the bunny is playing above their level, and the GM does not feel they will be able to provide the player with enough to do otherwise. Michael W. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 10:36:40 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA29637; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:36:40 +1200 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA29634 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:36:39 +1200 Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:22:20 +1200 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC0B86BE@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: RE: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:22:18 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz The theory is that you need to get out and "experience" life in the big bad world before you can learn more. However this all seems to be a bit of a storm in a tea cup. How about we all agree to give GMs a bit of discretion when they have starting characters and/or players in their party. If the GM feels that the player needs a few ranks in a spell to ensure that they enjoy the game, and the player agrees, then just give them Rk 6 in a general of their choice for the course of the game. Or whatever else is appropriate. However most of us seem to agree that the better approach is to angle the game in such a way that numbers are less important than contribution. And only resort to loaning them ranks as a last resort. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Simpson [SMTP:Mark_Simpson@westpactrust.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 9:57 AM > > some colleges). Surely they, and the guild that has invested time (6 > months) and resources in training them would rather see them at least a > bit > better equiped for survival and to be able to assist the party? If you > want > say that learning a college takes more time so be it, at least some of > that > time can be said to be used in actually ranking some spells. > > /\/\ark > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 11:21:49 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA29755; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:21:49 +1200 Received: from ismbc.com (roxy.ismbc.com [207.194.198.216]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA29752 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:21:45 +1200 Received: from cricket.bcgas.com by ismbc.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18764; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:06:19 -0700 Received: by cricket with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:09:17 -0700 Message-ID: <13526950162FD211A07F0001FA68BE8C01CA455E@orca> Subject: RE: DQ - Chair/Quorum Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:05:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Arona [SMTP:jimarona@ihug.co.nz] > This would be a social club > of some kind. Not a collective aiming at the destruction of the Western > world as we know it. > [Martin Dickson] Owww... I really like the idea of the club's constitution enshrining our aim of destroying civilization as we know it. If you can't have big plans, then what's the point? :) Cheers, Martin -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 11:47:55 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA29844; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:47:55 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA29841 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:47:55 +1200 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p19-max46.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.229.83]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id LAA32418 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:37:34 +1200 Subject: Re: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:34:01 +1200 Message-ID: <01bebe9a$0a5a8ca0$53e56dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >To me this issue is really very simple - imagine the wide-eyed first time >player sitting with their first GM, asking about the spells their newly >created mage character has - > >GM - "Well you have no special knowledge spells, but you do get all the >general knowledge spells at rank zero!". > >Newbie - "Oh ... , so how do I work out my cast chances?" (GM shows player) >"Hang-on, I've got more chance of backfiring most of these than actually >casting them, how bad are backfires?" (GM explains) "Oh" (player read spell >descriptions) "Some of these spells don't actually do anything at rank zero >even if I successfully cast them. How do I increase ranks in spells?"(GM >explains DQ ep system) "So I won't be able to rank anything for three >months .... ". You're trying to make it sound like the player wouldn't have been aware of these things, before they started playing. That's not the case. They may not have realised what it meant, I suppose, but I don't recall ever feeling put out because I didn't have ranks in a spell or the opportunity to advance my character. Most players manage to handle the hurdle you seem to think is insurmountable.And, they've done so for years. I don't believe that this will encourage new players. I dont' think it'll do any thing. > >It seems self evident to me that if new players were able to rank a couple >of spells/talents/rituals from their college that appealed to them (to the >point where they thought they were worthwhile using them) that new player >will feel they have more to do, more to offer the rest of the party, more >opportunities to roleplay, and ultimately be more likely to enjoy the game >and the whole experience. Whilst its all very well to to take the >idealistic moral high ground that "numbers don't matter", I would contend >that there is an element of the "power gamer" (we like our charcters to be >good at something) in the best of us - even father Rowen seems to have >crunched the numbers to optimise his hellfire... . Let me understand you correctly, then, Mark...You are accusing me of power gaming, then? A simple yes or no answer will suffice. Once you've provided this answer, I suggest you back it up with some sound argument. Because you're in for one. I see no benefit to be derived from a policy such as you suggest.A DM may on occasion allow a player to advance a player's abilities, at their discretion. I have ruled in this way, myself, on occasion. As for your point about feeling useful, I disagree. Making yourself useful is not something connected with Ranks. I have seen players who take chances and do something, and then I have seen players who look at numbers and decide that they won't do anything because of their cost/benefit analysis. The ones who are useless are the ones with the calculators. There have been some >interesting and potentially viable alternatives suggested, such as the GM >allowing bunny players to do a week or so of ranking after 3-4 weeks into >the game, but that may not suit the particular scenario the GM was running >in all cases. If a DM wants to allow for this sort of thing in their game, then that's fine. If they don't, then I'm sure they will have considered it. It is in their hands, really. > >Few other systems make new characters start with less and wait as long (3 >months of realtime - 12+ sessions) before they can progress. In game >realism terms why would an adept want to see foot outside their college >when effectively they can't do anything (yes- there are some exceptions in >some colleges). Surely they, and the guild that has invested time (6 >months) and resources in training them would rather see them at least a bit >better equiped for survival and to be able to assist the party? If you want >say that learning a college takes more time so be it, at least some of that >time can be said to be used in actually ranking some spells. > It's irrelevant. Surely, no human would step outside of any human environment without ranks in Unarmed Combat, Rock and Crude Club. But, they don't. Or not often. That is the start position. It has not turned away players in the past. I don't believe it will do so in the future. I don't believe it will do anything to attract new players. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 12:57:10 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA29939; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:57:10 +1200 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA29936 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:57:08 +1200 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA241150930271606 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:46:46 +1200 (NZST) Message-ID: <011b01bebea3$16718e40$0d64a8c0@iconz> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:38:46 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > To me this issue is really very simple - imagine the wide-eyed first time > player sitting with their first GM, asking about the spells their newly > created mage character has - > > GM - "Well you have no special knowledge spells, but you do get all the > general knowledge spells at rank zero!". > > Newbie - "Oh ... , so how do I work out my cast chances?" (GM shows player) > "Hang-on, I've got more chance of backfiring most of these than actually > casting them, how bad are backfires?" (GM explains) "Oh" (player read spell > descriptions) "Some of these spells don't actually do anything at rank zero > even if I successfully cast them. How do I increase ranks in spells?"(GM > explains DQ ep system) "So I won't be able to rank anything for three > months .... ". GM - "That would be the case if the spells you can cast were the be all and end all of the DQ experiance. But a large portion of the game is character interaction and discovery. You will be able to enjoy the game with your character as it is because your thoughts, opinions, and social interartion are more important than some numbers on a piece of paper. By playing the character you will be able to define the personality before enhancing that with the ranking choices you make. DQ is a game of patience and development with mastery of a spell or skill real time years away. Enjoy your character now while the pressure to achieve is lessened and just learn how the game works. As for backfires, they provide a good grounding to how things work and can be a lot of fun. As your GM I know what you can and cannot do and will be here to help you if you have any questions, although if you could save them if possible to the end of the evening so it does not disrupt the flow of the game it would be appreciated." Newbie - "Ok great, well lets get started so I can see how this game runs. It sounds really fun!" > It seems self evident to me that if new players were able to rank a couple > of spells/talents/rituals from their college that appealed to them (to the > point where they thought they were worthwhile using them) that new player > will feel they have more to do, more to offer the rest of the party, more > opportunities to roleplay, and ultimately be more likely to enjoy the game > and the whole experience. Whilst its all very well to to take the > idealistic moral high ground that "numbers don't matter", I would contend > that there is an element of the "power gamer" (we like our charcters to be > good at something) in the best of us - even father Rowen seems to have > crunched the numbers to optimise his hellfire... . There have been some > interesting and potentially viable alternatives suggested, such as the GM > allowing bunny players to do a week or so of ranking after 3-4 weeks into > the game, but that may not suit the particular scenario the GM was running > in all cases. It seems to me that that would be the case if the GM presents an adventure that is a string of connected tasks that require skills and abilities to complete. Rather than a fully rounded adventure with elements of action, drama, and social interaction. Any character at any level will only enjoy the game if they enjoy the company. The social aspect of DQ is the true driving force behind game enjoyment and that is unreplaceable by EP. > Few other systems make new characters start with less and wait as long (3 > months of realtime - 12+ sessions) before they can progress. In game > realism terms why would an adept want to see foot outside their college > when effectively they can't do anything (yes- there are some exceptions in > some colleges). Surely they, and the guild that has invested time (6 > months) and resources in training them would rather see them at least a bit > better equiped for survival and to be able to assist the party? If you want > say that learning a college takes more time so be it, at least some of that > time can be said to be used in actually ranking some spells. I am not sure why we are actually discussing this because all of the aforementioned options for "advancing" the character can be done by a GM now. If I want to allow my player to get EP before the game I can. As long as the EP from my adventure is not out of the boundaries of the campaign when I give it to the player is at my discresion. So if you want to give players an EP loan, go for it. Its your perogative. My perogative is to not give out the EP regardless of what "Rules" are brought in. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 17:18:23 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA30170; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:18:23 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA30167 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:18:21 +1200 Received: from dworkin (p41-max32.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.100.233]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA27387 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:07:54 +1200 Message-ID: <001001bebeca$34396340$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Random Thoughts and Bunnies Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:18:05 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >To me this issue is really very simple - imagine the wide-eyed first time >player sitting with their first GM, asking about the spells their newly >created mage character has - > >GM - "Well you have no special knowledge spells, but you do get all the >general knowledge spells at rank zero!". But wait! There's more! You to, young mage have access to the wonderful and mighty cantrips. With these so-called minor magics you will be cleaner, smell better and so stand above those feeble peons who do not have the advantage of being a mage. And have we mentioned, ritual spell preparation! For a small investure of time you to can boost your casting chances by a staggering 30 percent. Ideal for those non-combat spells or when there is no true hurry. And on the subject of rituals, you possess one (or more) of these formidable magics. Sure, at your current stage they could be risky but even so they are powerful indeed. Finally, because you are indeed, a valued customer we will bestow some magical talents. Sir, we cannot understate their power at all. Even having detect invisibles at 5% could cause the entire party to bow down and worship you should you see the invisible nasty coming to get you all. Player: Muwahahaha! It's all really a matter of perspective. Beginning adventurers are not at all feeble. Having rank 0 in a skill is an awesome thing. An adventurer should be a brave and determined soul, not some sniveling plebe afraid of one's own shadow. Believe me when I say that attitude is everything and this is true at all levels of play. There is no true need to beef up beginning characters. They are powerful and god-like as it is. Anyway some years ago beginning characters received a boost to starting ep and monies (remember when you could get 15 ep to start with). All that has happened is a shifted perception in what is helpless. William -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 17:48:07 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA30218; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:48:07 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA30215 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:48:06 +1200 Received: from paul (p89-max14.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.243.125]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA01822 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:37:38 +1200 Message-ID: <00b201bebecc$d4707c20$0c64640a@paul> Subject: Re: DQ - Chair/Quorum Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:37:34 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 From: "P Schmidt" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I find the concept of destroying civilisation as we know it just a little two limiting. If we are going to aim for the big time our organisation should have an overall marketing stragey that enshrines our goals in a modern and cost effective sense. Certain natural phrases suggest themselves, seeing as we are a group of Jesus hating roleplaying freaks in the service of Satan. These are "to become recognised as the prime promoters of corruption through out the macrocosimc all" "to be recognised as the chief providers of despair and dread throughout the universre" "to aim for the tile "perniucous to all life"" "to be reocgnised as the primary source of evil throught creation" 'to be proactive in our destiny to rule all through evil" "to acknowledge the treaty of Witanagi" "to experience the oneness that only suicide can prepare" There, that about covers it. Almost multi-national in its similarity. Dr Evil -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jun 25 21:58:18 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id VAA30412; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:58:18 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id VAA30409 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:58:15 +1200 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p58-tnt2.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.245.58]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA17327 for ; Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:47:41 +1200 Subject: Re: DQ - Chair/Quorum Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:44:05 +1200 Message-ID: <01bebeef$4429bdc0$3af56dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >I find the concept of destroying civilisation as we know it just a little >two limiting. If we are going to aim for the big time our organisation >should have an overall marketing stragey that enshrines our goals in a >modern and cost effective sense. >Certain natural phrases suggest themselves, seeing as we are a group of >Jesus hating roleplaying freaks in the service of Satan. These are > >"to become recognised as the prime promoters of corruption through out the >macrocosimc all" >"to be recognised as the chief providers of despair and dread throughout the >universre" >"to aim for the tile "perniucous to all life"" >"to be reocgnised as the primary source of evil throught creation" >'to be proactive in our destiny to rule all through evil" >"to acknowledge the treaty of Witanagi" >"to experience the oneness that only suicide can prepare" > >There, that about covers it. Almost multi-national in its similarity. > >Dr Evil > > Your days are numbered, Dr Evil...Telecom's lawyers are combing this document to provide evidence of infringement of copyright... Loyal Telecom lackey....And scion of Evil. >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --