From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 00:55:54 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id AAA06630; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:55:54 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id AAA06627 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:55:53 +1200 Received: from dworkin (p39-max23.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.98.167]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA09888 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:41:53 +1200 Message-ID: <000c01bec3c0$aff29380$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (2/7/99) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:53:15 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Who cares! However the rescue of such beings is a great oppotunity for the high types out there. >B) Will the Healing Potion Cauldron become available again? Again, who cares (that counts), The lack of abundant healing aside from that provided by skills and colleges only adds to the use and versitility of such abilities. for submission > >Mind clarification Jacqui In Progress Yes, I would (If not I who else has a high level pure mind mage?) like to know what dark forces one must use to get a look at such a document. At the moment my feeling is " Oh well, I guess it is a good time to retire my mind mage, after all, I have other PCs. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 01:03:47 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id BAA06650; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:03:47 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id BAA06647; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:03:46 +1200 Received: from dworkin (p39-max23.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.98.167]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA11002; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:49:46 +1200 Message-ID: <002801bec3c1$c9ecdb00$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Noble sought Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:01:08 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Sir Gerald de Claary Graal, aka Glass, fits these criteria. >Struan L. Judd <*> Email: neon@sf.org.nz >http://bounce.to/neon ICQ: 4498196 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of >> Michael Parkinson >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:52 PM >> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> Subject: Noble sought >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> As GM, I need to remind some particular PCs of male, unmarried human >> guild-members that they know as fellow guildmembers (although the players >> may well be uncertain of who's who). >> >> Must be of *at least* Knightly status. >> Ideally the PC should be son of a landed noble, or a famous hero. >> >> Would players (esp. GMs currently GMing such characters) please advise. >> If character possesses land, or has feudal duty, please indicate PC's >> overlord if known. >> >> >> regards, Michael >> >> >> Michael Parkinson >> Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian >> Science Library, University of Auckland, >> Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. >> Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz >> Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 >> -------------------------------- >> I say that as far as the truth of which mathematical proofs give >> us knowledge, >> it is the same truth that Divine wisdom recognises -- Galileo >> (tr.), "Diologo." >> >> >> -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- >> > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 01:17:06 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id BAA06677; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:17:06 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id BAA06674 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:17:05 +1200 Received: from dworkin (p39-max23.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.98.167]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA12726 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:03:05 +1200 Message-ID: <004801bec3c3$a63b5d60$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Illusory Animal Spell Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:14:27 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >A sparrow that can carry a human is another problem. > >Andrew I hate to point this out. surely maji can do more than palour tricks which are not combat related? Just a wide idea. William the most harrassed GM. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 01:19:42 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id BAA06695; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:19:42 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id BAA06692 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:19:41 +1200 Received: from dworkin (p39-max23.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.18.98.167]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id BAA13008 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:05:41 +1200 Message-ID: <005301bec3c4$02fa0a60$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (extra item) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 01:17:03 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >4) Rules General Business >New Character ep loan (Andrew) > Starting characters may get a "loan" of up to 5,000ep and 3 months time >which they must repay after their first adventure. The creating GM & approving >character tribunal member (if any still exist) must agree to the character's ep >expenditure as appropriate for their background. Yeah, oops! This is a very bad idea. Why? Trust me on this. "Something freely given has no value" SST, RAH William -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 09:16:34 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA07086; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:16:34 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id JAA07083 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:16:33 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id JAA18927 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:02:21 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907012102.JAA18927@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:05:20 +0000 Subject: Re: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (extra item) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz > >New Character ep loan (Andrew) > > This is a very bad idea. > > Why? > > Trust me on this. > > "Something freely given has no value" As some-one who is STILL paying back his student loan -- Trust me on this, a LOAN is not a free gift. Personally I'd prefer not to give quite so much ep -- but from experience I've found that whilst an unranked non-mage is robust & useful on their first mission; having a party reliant on your totally unranked mage's Rank-0 General spells is not pleasant. One mission took us *weeks* to get through one chamber; because I was not doing multiple cast of a *necessary* 20% investigative spell, crucial to our survival, without hours of spell preparation each time. remeber they're only going to be ranking general spells -- not specials or other funky stuff. Even a Namer (your typical do-nothing support mage) is *dangerous* if all their general magic is only Rank 0 regards, Michael Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -------------------------------- I say that as far as the truth of which mathematical proofs give us knowledge, it is the same truth that Divine wisdom recognises -- Galileo (tr.), "Diologo." -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 09:42:05 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA07123; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:42:05 +1200 Received: from exchange.telebusiness.co.nz ([203.97.136.3] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id JAA07120 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:42:04 +1200 Received: by proxy.telebusiness.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) id <3CTS26CP>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:27:51 +1200 Message-ID: <01FAE6CB4A43D0118AB00020AF0F925771E572@proxy.telebusiness.co.nz> Subject: RE: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (extra item) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:27:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Terry Spencer To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz #> >New Character ep loan (Andrew) #> #> This is a very bad idea. #> #> Why? #> #> Trust me on this. #> #> "Something freely given has no value" # #As some-one who is STILL paying back his student loan -- Trust me on this, #a LOAN is not a free gift. Personally I'd prefer not to give quite so #much ep -- but from experience I've found that whilst an unranked non-mage #is robust & useful on their first mission; having a party reliant on your #totally unranked mage's Rank-0 General spells is not pleasant. One #mission took us *weeks* to get through one chamber; because I was not #doing multiple cast of a *necessary* 20% investigative spell, crucial to #our survival, without hours of spell preparation each time. Does the issue regard this problem stem from beginning characters join games that are too high for them. If the character are in fact on a game pitched at beginning characters, the GM shouldn't force them to rely upon their low BC spells. I believe this proposal is a remedy to a symptom, not the problem. People with beginning character should chose their game with more care and enquire of the GM if the game is suitable. #remeber they're only going to be ranking general spells -- not specials or #other funky stuff. Even a Namer (your typical do-nothing support mage) #is *dangerous* if all their general magic is only Rank 0 # #regards, Michael -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 09:56:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA07159; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:56:41 +1200 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id JAA07156 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:56:40 +1200 Message-ID: <377BE0C5.17D73D2F@peace.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:42:30 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (extra item) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Terry Spencer wrote: > People with beginning character should chose their game with more care and > enquire of the GM if the game is suitable. Often it is difficult enough to get on *any* game - although usually a GM will simply refuse to take a bunny if they feel their game is unsuitable. I think a more relevant point is that as a GM it makes no difference to you whether other GMs use this EP loan. You can not use it if you like, and players coming into your game will have the same EP etc. as if they had not had the loan. Therefore, I don't see that you have any reason as a GM to object to this practice, so long as nobody forces you to do it. Do you feel that your enjoyment as a player is impared by these loans? If so, why? Do you feel that the player receiving the loan's enjoyment will be impared? In a way, it is pretty irrelevant anyhow. With or without this proposal passing, GMs may still do it in their games. This simply advertises the possibility, and suggests some standardized parameters for the size of the loan. Michael W. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 10:16:32 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA07185; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:16:32 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id KAA07182 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:16:31 +1200 Received: by akl-notes.aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 4C2567A1.00791FDD ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:03:00 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AJ.CO.NZ Message-ID: <4C2567A1.00791EAE.00@akl-notes.aj.co.nz> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:02:55 +1200 Subject: Re: EP Loan to Bunnies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael Wrote >I think a more relevant point is that as a GM it makes no difference to you >whether other GMs use this EP loan. You can not use it if you like, and players >coming into your game will have the same EP etc. as if they had not had the >loan. Therefore, I don't see that you have any reason as a GM to object to this >practice, so long as nobody forces you to do it. But it does make a difference - half the fun of playing a bunny is 'incompetence' - you try stuff and it goes to custard around you. And the sheer relief that you can actually do things is a 'feature' of characters on the next few adventures. Both GM's and players will see these effects across several games. >In a way, it is pretty irrelevant anyhow. With or without this proposal >passing, GMs may still do it in their games. This simply advertises the >possibility, and suggests some standardized parameters for the size of the >loan. I have NEVER heard of GM's doing this currently. I've TWICE heard of a GM giving a bunny character greaters to help them cope in a game that would be otherwise over their head. In these cases it was all experienced players involved. The only EP loan I've seen is some GM's letting characters overspend their ep, usually by 100ish, to finish off ranking. I object to EP loans just to make a bunny 'better'. The whole point is that they are a bunny. I also don't like too many differences between GM's. It spoils the flow of the campaign if you have to keep checking how a particular GM does things. The only problem I see is for new PLAYERS, where I might be more flexible. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 11:09:13 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA07286; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:09:13 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA07283 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:09:12 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id KAA02486 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:54:58 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907012254.KAA02486@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:57:56 +0000 Subject: RE: Agenda for Gods Meeting this Sunday (extra item) X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear all, > Does the issue regard this problem stem from beginning characters join games > that are too high for them. This is a *very* valid comment. It is the GM & scenario which determines whether there is anything for the character to do. There is almost *nothing* that the beginner PC or its player can do about it -- most beginner mages are useless because their beginning 100-odd e.p. forces them to have less skills/ranking than *every* NPC they might encounter. The GM is obliged to ensure that there are enough interesting events that require NO reliance on skills, weapons, magic, or special items -- i.e. everything that our rules relate to. I think it is better to allow the GM to bolster a character slightly so there is something that the character can do within the rules. Remember the new PC should still be signifigantly outranked by any bunny that only has one adventure under their belt. > If the character are in fact on a game pitched at beginning characters, > the GM shouldn't force them to rely upon their low BC spells. I believe > this proposal is a remedy to a symptom, not the problem. Agreed. But this suggests that we should refuse to allow beginners on any adventure unless the GM has designed it only or predominantly for bunnies *without* any skills. Ideally it may better for a beginner to go on a very-low to low party where there opportunity for them do *adventuring* stuff, but there is also some experience in the party -- surely the guild doesn't send children out without a nanny. regards, michael Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -------------------------------- I say that as far as the truth of which mathematical proofs give us knowledge, it is the same truth that Divine wisdom recognises -- Galileo (tr.), "Diologo." -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 13:11:24 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA07497; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:11:24 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA07494 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:11:23 +1200 Received: by akl-notes.aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 4C2567A2.00054CFC ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:57:53 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AJ.CO.NZ Message-ID: <4C2567A2.00054CAB.00@akl-notes.aj.co.nz> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:57:52 +1200 Subject: Re: FW: Illusory Animal Spell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Andrew Wrote: Proposed change to Illusory Animal below: Mark Simpson points out some of the more obvious flaws below. A sparrow that can carry a human is another problem. Andrew >---------- > >Mark; >1) Illusory Animal was a mistake. I think that the AG, TMR, PC shoul= d be as >per minimum for the creature, the PS half the minimum (its only an i= llusion). >This gives a similar range of stats, but reasons for using different= animals. >---------- >From: Mark Simpson >PS - illusionary animals should have TMR =3D what the creature natur= ally is. >TMR =3D rank/2 means at rank 10 (my current rank) my birds fly at TM= R 5 !!!! >(surely at rank 10 I should be able to have a little bird move at th= e >appropriate speed) . Even at rank 20 a horse could only gallop at TM= R 10! >The weight to rank limitation is sufficient to stop abuse and provid= e good >reason to rank the spell - I don't see a reason to have any TMR/rank= >relationship - just state "TMR is the same as actual real creature o= f same >type". Of course you have the other extreme of a rank 20 illusiona= ry >turtle moving at TMR 10. One problem with this suggestion is that there is no benefit for rank= . More thought please. Current Write Up Creates an Illusion of a non-magical, non-sentient creature of no lar= ger than 10 lb + 10 lb x Rank squared is created. The Illusion will have the i= nstincts of the creature it is based on, though it will obey most simple menta= l instructions from the Adept. This communication is one-way, and may o= nly occur while the animal is within range of the spell. No other communication= is possible - it has no mind. The animal has a PS, AG and PC equal to Ra= nk + 5, and a TMR of Rank / 2. The animal is solid, can bear weight. It canno= t attack effectively, nor cause fear. Only creatures previously observed by th= e Adept may be created. Smell, sound and feel are created as appropriate. If = damaged, the Illusion is dissipated. The Adept may perceive through the animal= ?s senses as follows: Rank 3 taste; Rank 7 smell; Rank 11 touch; Rank 15 hearin= g; Rank 19 sight. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the in= dividual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, r= eview, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is str= ictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediate= ly telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. = -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 13:15:32 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA07518; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:15:32 +1200 Received: from fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (mail.fcl.co.nz [203.98.14.148]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA07515 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:15:31 +1200 Received: from falaklnt000.falum.co.nz ([10.8.1.20]) by fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with SMTP id nz for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:01:18 +1200 Received: by falaklnt000.falum.co.nz with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62) id <01BEC48B.2DF98CA0@falaklnt000.falum.co.nz>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:02:46 +1200 Message-ID: Subject: RE: FW: Illusory Animal Spell Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:02:45 +1200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.996.62 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Weight limitation of 10lb + 10/(Rank sq) would remain. You can only do a horse at Rank 10, a pony at 8, a lion at 6, a big dog at 3, and a warhorse at 14. However, sparrows, cats, hawks, etc are (as always) at Rank 0. Andrew >---------- >From: > Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz[SMTP:Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co. >nz] >Reply To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Sent: Friday, 2 July 1999 12:57 >To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Subject: Re: FW: Illusory Animal Spell > > > > Andrew Wrote: > Proposed change to Illusory Animal below: > > Mark Simpson points out some of the more obvious flaws below. > > A sparrow that can carry a human is another problem. > > Andrew > >---------- > > > >Mark; > >1) Illusory Animal was a mistake. I think that the AG, TMR, PC should be >as > >per minimum for the creature, the PS half the minimum (its only an >illusion). > >This gives a similar range of stats, but reasons for using different >animals. > >---------- > >From: Mark Simpson > > >PS - illusionary animals should have TMR = what the creature naturally is. > >TMR = rank/2 means at rank 10 (my current rank) my birds fly at TMR 5 !!!! > >(surely at rank 10 I should be able to have a little bird move at the > >appropriate speed) . Even at rank 20 a horse could only gallop at TMR 10! > >The weight to rank limitation is sufficient to stop abuse and provide good > >reason to rank the spell - I don't see a reason to have any TMR/rank > >relationship - just state "TMR is the same as actual real creature of same > >type". Of course you have the other extreme of a rank 20 illusionary > >turtle moving at TMR 10. > > One problem with this suggestion is that there is no benefit for rank. >More > thought please. > > Current Write Up > Creates an Illusion of a non-magical, non-sentient creature of no larger >than > 10 lb + 10 lb x Rank squared is created. The Illusion will have the >instincts > of the creature it is based on, though it will obey most simple mental > instructions from the Adept. This communication is one-way, and may only >occur > while the animal is within range of the spell. No other communication is > possible - it has no mind. The animal has a PS, AG and PC equal to Rank + >5, > and a TMR of Rank / 2. The animal is solid, can bear weight. It cannot >attack > effectively, nor cause fear. Only creatures previously observed by the >Adept > may be created. Smell, sound and feel are created as appropriate. If >damaged, > the Illusion is dissipated. The Adept may perceive through the animal?s >senses > as follows: Rank 3 taste; Rank 7 smell; Rank 11 touch; Rank 15 hearing; >Rank > 19 sight. > > Rosemary > >This message contains confidential information intended only for the >individual >or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, >perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly >prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately >telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. > > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 13:49:30 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA07570; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:49:30 +1200 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA07567 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:49:28 +1200 Message-ID: <377C1752.C5A3BB5B@peace.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:35:14 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FW: Illusory Animal Spell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz One of my characters has just acquired this spell, and I agree with the criticism - a TMR 2 swallow is absurd, even when laden. Illusary animals should not be obvously different in behaviour from the real thing. I also agree that the weight limitiation is a significant reason to rank it, as is the ability to use the illusary animal's senses at various ranks. > Weight limitation of 10lb + 10/(Rank sq) would remain. > You can only do a horse at Rank 10, a pony at 8, a lion at 6, a big dog > at 3, and a warhorse at 14. However, sparrows, cats, hawks, etc are (as > always) at Rank 0. > > > >1) Illusory Animal was a mistake. I think that the AG, TMR, PC should be as > > >per minimum for the creature, the PS half the minimum (its only an illusion). > > >This gives a similar range of stats, but reasons for using different animals. A rank based limit on PS is entirely reasonable. We could go for something like: Max PS = 1+3 per two full ranks, may not exceed creature's natural average PS, you may not create a creature unless you have sufficient rank to give it half it's average PS. Given that there is a strong correlation between mass and PS, we could go with Mark's suggestion above and rely on the weight limit to limit PS. I have no strong feelings. From the current writeup: > >The Adept may perceive through the animal?s > >senses > > as follows: Rank 3 taste; Rank 7 smell; Rank 11 touch; Rank 15 hearing; > >Rank > > 19 sight. I think these sensings should always be the worse of the animal's and the adept's. I don't like the idea of creating an eagle and having it sit on your shoulder as an enhanced sight spell. One more possible restriction: do we want a lower limit on the size of animal? I can imagine an illusary gnat being used as a combined wizard-eye/hear/finger/nose/tongue spell. The proposed limitation above (senses not better than those of the illusary animal) should control this, however. (It is also not clear we want to prevent this.) Michael W. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 14:30:53 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA07634; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:30:53 +1200 Received: from qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.141] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA07631 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:30:51 +1200 Received: by qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:12:40 +1200 Message-ID: <15A7D8BC5E3ED2119E2E0000F82150FC0B86D8@qed_akl_nt_1.qed.co.nz> Subject: Late Agenda Item: GTN of Demons Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:12:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Is the Generic True Name of Demons... - Demon Or - Demonic Prince - Demonic President - Demonic Earl ... The only reason that this matters is that Namers need to know what they should rank, 1 GTN for all demons or 1 for each demonic title. Neither method is unreasonable, so how about a quick vote at the Gods meeting to resolve it one way or the other. Cheers, Stephen. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 14:38:02 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA07659; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:38:02 +1200 Received: from exchange.telebusiness.co.nz ([203.97.136.3] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA07656 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:37:56 +1200 Received: by proxy.telebusiness.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) id <3CTS26GP>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:23:39 +1200 Message-ID: <01FAE6CB4A43D0118AB00020AF0F925771E578@proxy.telebusiness.co.nz> Subject: RE: Late Agenda Item: GTN of Demons Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:23:37 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Terry Spencer To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz A think a straw poll of how the players with namers currently rank this would be valuable. I rank the subgroups myself i.e. Prince, President etc. Terry Spencer SITEL Telebusiness NZ Ltd Phone +64 9 3738919 > Truth emerges more readily from error than confusion > > -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephen@qed.co.nz] Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 2:13 PM To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Late Agenda Item: GTN of Demons Is the Generic True Name of Demons... - Demon Or - Demonic Prince - Demonic President - Demonic Earl ... The only reason that this matters is that Namers need to know what they should rank, 1 GTN for all demons or 1 for each demonic title. Neither method is unreasonable, so how about a quick vote at the Gods meeting to resolve it one way or the other. Cheers, Stephen. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 14:45:31 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA07680; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:45:31 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA07677 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:45:29 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id OAA26942 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:31:08 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907020231.OAA26942@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:34:08 +0000 Subject: RE: Late Agenda Item: GTN of Demons X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz > A think a straw poll of how the players with namers currently rank this > would be valuable. > > I rank the subgroups myself i.e. Prince, President etc. My straw leans the same way regards, Michael (Silverfoam) PS -- Specifically: Demonic Duke 2 Demonic Emperor 2 Demonic Earl 2 Demonic King 2 Demonic Marquis 2 Demonic President 2 Demonic Prince 2 ITN: Cimijes 1 ITN: Palmon 1 ITN: Samagina 2 ITN: Vosso 1 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 21:25:48 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id VAA08437; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:25:48 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id VAA08434 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:25:47 +1200 Received: from p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz (p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.119.161]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA02686 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:11:16 +1200 Received: by p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEC4CF.C6D3DB80@p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:13:48 +1200 Message-ID: <01BEC4CF.C6D3DB80@p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz> Subject: RE: FW: Illusory Animal Spell Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:12:55 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEC4CF.C6DB7CA0" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_=26_Ellen__Hume=A0?= To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC4CF.C6DB7CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good grief, why do we bother with Mind clarifications? This illusory = animal is so much better than a 'controlled animal' that it does warrant = a comparision. how come an illusionist doesn't have to know how to flap wings of a = bird?? why do they have sensory feedback? do I hear shouts of "in coming!" Man the defenses Ian -----Original Message----- From: Michael Woodhams [SMTP:michaelw@peace.com] Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 1:35 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: FW: Illusory Animal Spell One of my characters has just acquired this spell, and I agree with the = criticism - a TMR 2 swallow is absurd, even when laden. Illusary animals should not be = obvously different in behaviour from the real thing. I also agree that the weight = limitiation is a significant reason to rank it, as is the ability to use the illusary = animal's senses at various ranks. > Weight limitation of 10lb + 10/(Rank sq) would remain. > You can only do a horse at Rank 10, a pony at 8, a lion at 6, a big = dog > at 3, and a warhorse at 14. However, sparrows, cats, hawks, etc are = (as > always) at Rank 0. > > > >1) Illusory Animal was a mistake. I think that the AG, TMR, PC = should be as > > >per minimum for the creature, the PS half the minimum (its only an = illusion). > > >This gives a similar range of stats, but reasons for using = different animals. A rank based limit on PS is entirely reasonable. We could go for = something like: Max PS =3D 1+3 per two full ranks, may not exceed creature's natural = average PS, you may not create a creature unless you have sufficient rank to give it half = it's average PS. Given that there is a strong correlation between mass and PS, we could = go with Mark's suggestion above and rely on the weight limit to limit PS. I have no = strong feelings. >From the current writeup: > >The Adept may perceive through the animal?s > >senses > > as follows: Rank 3 taste; Rank 7 smell; Rank 11 touch; Rank 15 = hearing; > >Rank > > 19 sight. I think these sensings should always be the worse of the animal's and = the adept's. I don't like the idea of creating an eagle and having it sit on your = shoulder as an enhanced sight spell. One more possible restriction: do we want a lower limit on the size of = animal? I can imagine an illusary gnat being used as a combined = wizard-eye/hear/finger/nose/tongue spell. The proposed limitation above (senses not better than those of = the illusary animal) should control this, however. (It is also not clear we want to = prevent this.) 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AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAA AAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAACKM ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC4CF.C6DB7CA0-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Jul 2 21:25:44 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id VAA08432; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:25:44 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id VAA08429 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:25:43 +1200 Received: from p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz (p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.119.161]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA02673 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:11:11 +1200 Received: by p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz with Microsoft Mail id <01BEC4CF.C2F71680@p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz>; Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:13:42 +1200 Message-ID: <01BEC4CF.C2F71680@p33-max19.akl.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Loans to PCs Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 21:06:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEC4CF.C2FEB7A0" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_=26_Ellen__Hume=A0?= To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEC4CF.C2FEB7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Um, hold on here guys! If we write rules for every situation then we may aswell play for Microsoft's legal team. we need flexibitlity, not litigation. some general guidelines perhaps for the GMs. Say in a nifty leather-bound GMs Kit. I like the idea of loans. I really like the idea of interest. Say 50% interest per three months. I would allow any PC who had the time to rack up the overdraft. I would loan them money too. Heck I would even loan them the time. Just sign here, oh, you cut yourself? Well just sign next to the smudge. cheers Ian -----Original Message----- From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz [SMTP:Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz] Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 10:03 AM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: EP Loan to Bunnies Michael Wrote >I think a more relevant point is that as a GM it makes no difference to you >whether other GMs use this EP loan. You can not use it if you like, and players >coming into your game will have the same EP etc. as if they had not had the >loan. Therefore, I don't see that you have any reason as a GM to object to this >practice, so long as nobody forces you to do it. But it does make a difference - half the fun of playing a bunny is 'incompetence' - you try stuff and it goes to custard around you. And the sheer relief that you can actually do things is a 'feature' of characters on the next few adventures. Both GM's and players will see these effects across several games. >In a way, it is pretty irrelevant anyhow. With or without this proposal >passing, GMs may still do it in their games. This simply advertises the >possibility, and suggests some standardized parameters for the size of the >loan. I have NEVER heard of GM's doing this currently. I've TWICE heard of a GM giving a bunny character greaters to help them cope in a game that would be otherwise over their head. In these cases it was all experienced players involved. The only EP loan I've seen is some GM's letting characters overspend their ep, usually by 100ish, to finish off ranking. I object to EP loans just to make a bunny 'better'. The whole point is that they are a bunny. I also don't like too many differences between GM's. It spoils the flow of the campaign if you have to keep checking how a particular GM does things. The only problem I see is for new PLAYERS, where I might be more flexible. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. 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