From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 11:59:52 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA16700; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:59:52 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id LAA16697 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 11:59:45 +1200 Received: by akl-notes.aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 4C2567A8.00000324 ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:00:08 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AJ.CO.NZ Message-ID: <4C2567A8.00000246.00@akl-notes.aj.co.nz> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 12:00:05 +1200 Subject: DQ: Spell Availability (at the Guild) & Purchase Prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This Sunday afternoon I'm running a workshop to review the availability of Special Knowlege spells at the Guild and the price they will cost. The workshop will start at 2 pm and needs to be finished by 5pm (hopefully earlier) There are two things to consider: 1. General guidelines for spell availablity and price structure/range. 2. Going through the complete list of SK spells and reviewing availablity/price for each. If you would like to come email me (before 4.30 Friday). ***** Prior to the workshop I'd like to see some discussion on what sort of spells should be freely available at the guild. My opinion is that the current list is very random, and a bit limited. A wide range of spells readily available means that players have wider choices for their characters. This should promote differences between them (ok, so everyone who can will STILLlearn that handful of really useful spells first). If we severly limit spell availablity then character development will be more heavily influenced by which GM's they have had, and 'who you know' becomes a major influence. I strongly feel that character's should have the SAME opportunities for developement, to keep things fair between players. The price of spells, since it is a one-off, has less influence on the game. A think that 'saving up for spells' is a good thing, and wouldn't want to see too many cheap spells. I think a character SHOULD have to make a choice between buy a magic item or buy a new spell. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 17:20:10 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA17118; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:20:10 +1200 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA17115 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:20:09 +1200 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p390-tnt2.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.255.150]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA17799 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:20:04 +1200 Subject: Re: Spell Availability (at the Guild) & Purchase Prices Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:21:07 +1200 Message-ID: <01bec901$aee13e60$96ff6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Rosemary wrote: >My opinion is that the current list is very random, and a bit limited. >A wide range of spells readily available means that players have wider choices >for their characters. This should promote differences between them (ok, so >everyone who can will STILLlearn that handful of really useful spells first). >If we severly limit spell availablity then character development will be more >heavily influenced by which GM's they have had, and 'who you know' becomes a >major influence. I strongly feel that character's should have the SAME >opportunities for developement, to keep things fair between players. There is this 'theory' going around that says, more or less, that if you allow DMs to be able to influence the player character, then some players may be advantaged because of favouritism. Therefore, anything that looks like it might be favouritism should be stamped on until it is crushed and insignificant thing. The argument misses the following points: 1) If I want to play favourites, there is nothing to stop me from doing so. I can already award ep to a player that I prefer, I can give them better treasure, and I can make sure that they get better income yields.If I want to, I can give them a spell, and make sure they have the wherewithal to cover the cost. And, I can do all of this within the rule structure. 2) Any player that suspected their DM played favourites would not be interested in playing with them. I even doubt that a player that was a favourite would feel terribly good about it. If you want to reduce the availability of spells, fine. If your reason for doing so is to stop DMs favouring players, then you have wasted your time, and the time of everyone that attends that workshop. That is a different problem, if, indeed, it is a problem. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 18:06:31 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA17195; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:06:31 +1200 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA17192 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:06:30 +1200 Received: from mandos (e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz [202.14.100.208]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA104180931413984 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:06:24 +1200 (NZST) Subject: RE: Spell Availability (at the Guild) & Purchase Prices Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 17:57:58 +1200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz My opinion is that the current list is very random, and a bit limited. A wide range of spells readily available means that players have wider choices for their characters. This should promote differences between them (ok, so everyone who can will STILLlearn that handful of really useful spells first). If we severly limit spell availablity then character development will be more heavily influenced by which GM's they have had, and 'who you know' becomes a major influence. I strongly feel that character's should have the SAME opportunities for developement, to keep things fair between players. The price of spells, since it is a one-off, has less influence on the game. A think that 'saving up for spells' is a good thing, and wouldn't want to see too many cheap spells. I think a character SHOULD have to make a choice between buy a magic item or buy a new spell. My Opinions are : 1> Spells should be two tiered. The first being cheap to allow development and encourage a broad spectrum of spells and the second being Very expensive to encourage saving and thought in character development. The second tier spells being those what are resist for half damage spells or those not currently sold at the guild. 2> Spells that are written into a college should be available. If not why are they included in the college? If spells are wanted for NPC's then provide additional spells as GM addons not as part of the general college. 3> Favouritism is not a reason to make these changes but Jim has eloquently summed up the arguments there. 4> There is no reason at all for spells to have a "sensible" cost. I think too much of DQ is levelled and gradiented in such a fashion as to produce "fairness" which I think is rediculous and each spell should be priced on it's own merits regardless of what a similar spell in another collage costs. As long as the collage as a whole is balanced. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 18:52:54 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA17299; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:52:54 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA17296 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:52:53 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id SAA28335 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:52:46 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907080652.SAA28335@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 18:55:55 +0000 Subject: Different Maximum mastery means different Max Rank? X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear all, Your reactions & thoughts please: It has been suggested to me that the *only* languages with exceedingly complex grammar (i.e. with many cases, declinations, inflections, etc) should go to rank 10; these are generally old tongues, perhaps dead --more probably, living fossils. By analogy & comparison, maximum mastery of a Medieval language would require less effort than maximum mastery of Classical Latin or Greek. E.g. Perhaps: Dragon; Titan; Eldaran; Elvish; ... Language going to Rank 9 would be those that support diverse Civilizations, rich in poetry, and complex skills -- but whose grammar is not quite as horrendous, obtuse, or finnicky : E.g., *most* National Human tongues (especially if they have trade or cultural interaction with other nations) such as Reishpiel, LaLange, Ellenic; Dwarvish, Quenchan, Drow, ... Languages going to Rank 8 would be "normal" human tongues which don't quite have the vocabulary or intense grammar of a Rank 9 language; or whose people don't regularly display the breadth of skills or culture that more cosmopolitan nations do. E.g.: Alman, Pasifikan, Ebolan, Orcish, ... Because of its simple grammar & lack of idiosyncratic vocabulary, Common would also probably be only Rank 8. Languages going to Rank 7 would be human tongues of even more isolated communities -- or others who, for various reasons, don't have the breadth of skills or culture that more cosmopolitan nations do. NB: It was suggested that the minimum Rank for Magic use might then be [dropped to] Rank 7. ***Actually there is NO minimum language rank required for a mage, in the rules. The two closest passages are: Page 13: A Guild member will be literate in at least one language and literacy is required to learn magic. Page 35: Alternatively, the Adept may instead opt to prepare a scroll (in a language in which they have a minimum of Rank 8 literacy). .. Triggering a prepared scroll takes a full ten seconds and may only be done by someone literate in the language in which the scroll is written. The scroll must be read aloud without interruption. Regards, Michael Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -------------------------------- I say that as far as the truth of which mathematical proofs give us knowledge, it is the same truth that Divine wisdom recognises -- Galileo (tr.), "Diologo." -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 19:03:34 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA17330; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:03:34 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA17327 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:03:33 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id TAA29683 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:03:26 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907080703.TAA29683@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:06:35 +0000 Subject: Minimum ranks for other skills X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Hear ye, One & all, Further to the [non-existant?] minimum rank for mages, here is a list of what Rank of literacy is required to progress in the follwoing skills Alchemist beyond Rank 0 = "read and write in one language" (no rank specified), Astrologer beyond Rank 0 = "read and write in one language at Rank 8" To acquire the Mechanician skill = "literate in at least one language at Rank 6 or above" Merchant = "read and write in at least three languages at Rank 6 in order to use their assaying ability." Military Scientist Astrologer beyond Rank 0 = "read and write in at least one language at Rank 6 or above" To become a Philosopher = "possess at least one language at Rank 8, and are literate in that language". Spy beyond Rank 2 = "read and write in one language at Rank 4" Thief beyond Rank 3 = "read and write in one language at Rank 3" regards, Michael Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -------------------------------- I say that as far as the truth of which mathematical proofs give us knowledge, it is the same truth that Divine wisdom recognises -- Galileo (tr.), "Diologo." -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 19:12:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA17354; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:12:41 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA17351 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:12:40 +1200 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p386-tnt2.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.255.146]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA08029; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:12:31 +1200 Subject: Re: Different Maximum mastery means different Max Rank? Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 19:13:35 +1200 Message-ID: <01bec911$64f5a600$92ff6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Michael Parkinson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Thursday, 8 July 1999 18:53 Subject: Different Maximum mastery means different Max Rank? >Dear all, > >Your reactions & thoughts please: I dislike the contention intensely. Also deeply, widely, and at length. This detail adds nothing useful to the game, and may cause problems of a different, and unforeseen nature. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 8 22:51:23 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id WAA17608; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:51:23 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id WAA17605 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:51:21 +1200 Received: from ihug.co.nz (p203-tnt4.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.132.188.203]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id WAA19815 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:51:08 +1200 Message-ID: <378481A1.F5B65049@ihug.co.nz> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:46:58 +1200 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DQ: Spell Availability (at the Guild) & Purchase Prices Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Scott Whitaker To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Am definitely interested in coming and so may Jason saggers (psyclone@darknight.gen.nz). If i don't make it I agree with Mandos that all spells listed in a college should be available , even if at a high price. Is meeting at your place, if so can i have the address again please cheers scott Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz wrote: > This Sunday afternoon I'm running a workshop to review the availability of > Special Knowlege spells at the Guild and the price they will cost. > > The workshop will start at 2 pm and needs to be finished by 5pm (hopefully > earlier) > > There are two things to consider: > > 1. General guidelines for spell availablity and price structure/range. > 2. Going through the complete list of SK spells and reviewing availablity/price > for each. > > If you would like to come email me (before 4.30 Friday). > > ***** > Prior to the workshop I'd like to see some discussion on what sort of spells > should be freely available at the guild. > > My opinion is that the current list is very random, and a bit limited. > A wide range of spells readily available means that players have wider choices > for their characters. This should promote differences between them (ok, so > everyone who can will STILLlearn that handful of really useful spells first). > If we severly limit spell availablity then character development will be more > heavily influenced by which GM's they have had, and 'who you know' becomes a > major influence. I strongly feel that character's should have the SAME > opportunities for developement, to keep things fair between players. > The price of spells, since it is a one-off, has less influence on the game. A > think that 'saving up for spells' is a good thing, and wouldn't want to see too > many cheap spells. I think a character SHOULD have to make a choice between buy > a magic item or buy a new spell. > > Rosemary > > This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual > or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, > perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately > telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --