From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Jul 14 10:12:16 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA24369; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:12:16 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id KAA24366 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:12:15 +1200 Received: by akl-notes.aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 4C2567AD.0079C755 ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:10:08 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AJ.CO.NZ Message-ID: <4C2567AD.0079C63E.00@akl-notes.aj.co.nz> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:10:05 +1200 Subject: Re: Max Rank for Languages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I would prefer to keep languages having different max ranks than having different ep prices or other complicated mechanism. This is rather than trying to mirror reality as I don't think our game needs the extra complexity. However I have no problem with Michael reviewing, and maybe changing, the EP cost structure for languages. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, review, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediately telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Jul 14 10:17:49 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA24390; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:17:49 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA24387 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:17:48 +1200 Received: from phaeton (p13-max10.akl.ihug.co.nz [206.17.117.77]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA10270 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:14:32 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990714101042.007d7a50@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: phaeton@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:10:42 +1200 Subject: Library website Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Keith Smith To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz For those of you that are interested, the Guild Library website has been updated with the latest editions of the Seagate Times and what scribe notes from previous session I have been able to obtain. The URL is http://dq.sf.org.nz/library/ Keith (phaeton@ihug.co.nz) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Jul 14 11:59:34 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA24540; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:59:34 +1200 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id LAA24537 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:59:31 +1200 Message-ID: <378BD21D.A6F0F9A5@peace.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 11:56:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Max Rank for Languages Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I still feel it isn't broken, so why fix it, but it appears I am very much in the minority here, and I really don't care enough to fight it. The current rules give certain advantages at ranks 9 and 10: at rank 9, you can imitate accents with which you are familiar, and rank 10 you can imitate an accent after brief exposure to it. If you take away ranks 9 and/or 10 of some languages, these abilities should go elsewhere. (Otherwise, you can imitate accents in some languages, but not others.) I suggest they be added as specialisations to both the Trubadour and Courtier skills. (Arguably, this is where they belonged in the first place.) (I think if you add a new specialization, you should allow anyone who already has one of these skills to swap one of their current specializations for the new one, if it is one that they would have taken earlier had it been available earlier.) I'm not sure that there are any other advantages in the rules to having ranks 9 or 10 in a language. To solve this, I suggest a line in each of the troubadour and courtier skill writeups along the lines of "The specializations oratory, write play, write story, compose song and write poetry are significantly affected by the troubadour/courtier's rank in the language being used." (I would have to look at the skill descriptions to get the full list of relevant specializations, but you get the idea.) I think these specializations do not have base chances etc., so we need not give specific modifiers for language rank. Michael W. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Jul 14 13:02:39 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA24627; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:02:39 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA24624 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:02:38 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id MAA23151 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:59:18 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199907140059.MAA23151@mailhost.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:02:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Max Rank for Languages X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz, dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear Michael, & others, I hope the following clears the points that you raised: > The current rules give certain advantages at ranks 9 and 10: > at rank 9, you can imitate accents with which you are > familiar, and rank 10 you can imitate an accent after brief > exposure to it. If you take away ranks 9 and/or 10 of some > languages, these abilities should go elsewhere. (Otherwise, > you can imitate accents in some languages, but not others.) The old rules were faulty here for several points, amongst others: 1) if a language went to Ranks 9 or 10, Rank8 represented native fluency, therefore something had to be gained at super-native ranks. 2) one *had* to lose a non-native accent at high ranks. 3) there were no rules to cover the fact that a non-native speaker may have limited ranks in a language; but that what little they did speak was in a perfect accent. A related point was that there was ONLY a clear scale of how good one was in a language for one that went to Rank 10. All other languages were vaguely proportional to the 0-10 scale. This scheme carried over into the "draft version" I proposed last year, and was rightly criticised for having no abslolute measure at given ranks. The penult rules *do* have absolute measurements and have removed all references to accent or dialect w.r.t. level except for the much more sensible paragraph prposed (in section 38.5) The penult. version of languages posts a way of *learning* a particular accent/dialect in a language. This is separate from magical or other skill-based ways of faking it. It is also NOT necessary, if all the character wants to do is get by in the language. B.t.w., a byproduct of the new rules is that accent is irrelevant for those 4 languages with a maximum rank of less than 6. > I suggest they be added as specialisations to both the > Trubadour and Courtier skills. (Arguably, this is where they > belonged in the first place.) At the time the old rules were written, there *was* a troubadour [&/or courtesan] skill of "Immitate accents." The language rules were merely to reflect the understanding & familiarity with dialects that comes at high ranks - rather than the "entertainment" skills of adopting a fake accent. regards, Michael Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 -------------------------------- If you divide the various sciences and learned disciplines in accordance with their subject matter, you will find the first and deepest line of cleavage between mathematics on the one side and the whole remaining body of human knowledge on the other. -- "Norbert Wiener: Collected works" v.1 p.234 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --