From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 22 10:15:20 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA03144; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:15:20 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id KAA03141 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:15:18 +1200 Received: by akl-notes.aj.co.nz(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 4C2567B5.0079B056 ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:09:09 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AJ.CO.NZ Message-ID: <4C2567B5.0079AFFF.00@akl-notes.aj.co.nz> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:09:08 +1200 Subject: RE: Undetectability Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz How about this S11. Undetectability Range: 5 feet + 5 / Rank Duration: Passive concentration: maximum 10 minutes + 10 / Rank Experience Multiple: 450 Base Chance: 15% Resist: May not be resisted Storage: Potion Target: Entity Effect: This spell allows a group of entities to move undetected by any= sensory means, magical or mundane. The adept casts the spell on themself plus = up to + 1/4 ranks other entities. All targets of the spell can percieve each o= ther normally but they must remain within range of the adept or they cease t= o be effected by the spell. Observers cannot percieve the targets unless they do something that not= icebly impacts the observer. Then the observer gets a perception check, and i= f successful, can then see the whole group. The perception check is modi= fied by the reason for it and if the observer is actively intent on the area oc= uppied by the targets then the modifier is increased by one: PC Modifier Cause 1 x light touch, passing through a watched area (eg casually guard= ed gate) 2 x loud speech, spell casting, range attack 3 x obvious environment change (eg opening a door), invasive touch= (eg walking into someone) Automatic Melee attack The spell does not prevent the targets leaving tracks or other signs of= their presence but these will not be noticed until after they have left the a= rea. Magical observation (eg Witchsight, Wizard?s Eye, Clairaudience) will n= ot detect the targets but the spell does not effect detection magic that does not= use direct observation, eg. telepathy, locate, esp. Rosemary This message contains confidential information intended only for the in= dividual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient any use, r= eview, perusal, dissemination, distribution or copying of this document is str= ictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error please immediate= ly telephone us on +64-9-356 4000 and destroy the original message. = -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 22 10:23:59 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA03177; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:23:59 +1200 Received: from fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (mail.fcl.co.nz [203.98.14.148]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA03174 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:23:51 +1200 Received: from falaklex00.falum.co.nz ([10.8.1.28]) by fclaklmr01.fcl.co.nz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.1 release 219 ID# 0-0U10L2S100) with ESMTP id nz for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:17:27 +1200 Received: by falaklex00.fcl.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:16:44 +1200 Message-ID: <311B3C3DD32FD311B33900805F770A7294DD@falaklex00.fcl.co.nz> Subject: RE: Undetectability Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:16:43 +1200 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <311B3C3DD32FD311B33900805F770A7294DD@falaklex00.fcl.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01BED3C6.B6D989C0" From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01BED3C6.B6D989C0 Content-Type: text/plain 1) too long/complex. 2) Too many different PC checks - observers will need to make multiple checks depending on circumstances. Possibly too many rolls still. 3) This now explicitly covers one check for the whole group (per observer per circumstance) - good. 4) This does not use/integrate with stealth, which is a large part of the discussion - instead, it replaces stealth, which we all agreed was a BAD thing. What don't you like about my suggestion? It still covers all the raised points and is in line (I think) with Jim's initial suggestion that we tried to base our write-up on. Andrew > ---------- > From: > Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz[SMTP:Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.c > o.nz] > Reply To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Sent: Thursday, 22 July 1999 10:09 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: Undetectability > > > > How about this > > S11. Undetectability > Range: 5 feet + 5 / Rank > Duration: Passive concentration: maximum 10 minutes + 10 / Rank > Experience Multiple: 450 > Base Chance: 15% > Resist: May not be resisted > Storage: Potion > Target: Entity > Effect: This spell allows a group of entities to move undetected by any > sensory > means, magical or mundane. The adept casts the spell on themself plus up > to + > 1/4 ranks other entities. All targets of the spell can percieve each > other > normally but they must remain within range of the adept or they cease to > be > effected by the spell. > Observers cannot percieve the targets unless they do something that > noticebly > impacts the observer. Then the observer gets a perception check, and if > successful, can then see the whole group. The perception check is > modified by > the reason for it and if the observer is actively intent on the area > ocuppied by > the targets then the modifier is increased by one: > > PC Modifier Cause > 1 x light touch, passing through a watched area (eg casually guarded > gate) > 2 x loud speech, spell casting, range attack > 3 x obvious environment change (eg opening a door), invasive touch > (eg > walking into someone) > Automatic Melee attack > > The spell does not prevent the targets leaving tracks or other signs of > their > presence but these will not be noticed until after they have left the > area. > Magical observation (eg Witchsight, Wizard?s Eye, Clairaudience) will not > detect > the targets but the spell does not effect detection magic that does not > use > direct observation, eg. telepathy, locate, esp. > > Rosemary ------_=_NextPart_000_01BED3C6.B6D989C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@aj.co.nz wrote: > How about this > > S11. Undetectability [...] > > PC Modifier Cause > 1 x light touch, passing through a watched area (eg casually guarded gate) > 2 x loud speech, spell casting, range attack > 3 x obvious environment change (eg opening a door), invasive touch (eg > walking into someone) > Automatic Melee attack If one person detects the undetectables, to what extent can they assist others to detect them also? (This question applies to any proposed version where the undetectables may be detected by some people but not others.) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Jul 22 12:43:51 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA03364; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:43:51 +1200 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA03361 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:43:50 +1200 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p159-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.159]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA07922 for ; Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:36:00 +1200 Subject: Re: Undetectability Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:39:49 +1200 Message-ID: <01bed3da$b50cd180$9f9a64d8@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Observers cannot percieve the targets unless they do something that noticebly impacts the observer. Then the observer gets a perception check, and if successful, can then see the whole group. The perception check is modified by the reason for it and if the observer is actively intent on the area ocuppied by the targets then the modifier is increased by one: PC Modifier Cause 1 x light touch, passing through a watched area (eg casually guarded gate) Speaking as someone who has experienced a light touch, when not particularly checking anything out, in real life, I can tell you that a 2 x PC check is way too low. If you believe you've been touched by something, and cannot find the source immediately, you become immediately suspicious of everything. I think this is way too low, and not in line with observed human behaviour. 2 x loud speech, spell casting, range attack 3 x obvious environment change (eg opening a door), invasive touch (eg walking into someone) Automatic Melee attack -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --