From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 10:37:31 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id KAA28855; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:37:31 +1300 Received: from letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.35.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id KAA28852 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:37:28 +1300 Received: from [130.216.108.110] (clare.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.108.110]) by letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (8.8.6/8.8.6/cs-master) with ESMTP id JAA05360 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:52:15 +1300 (sender clare@cs.auckland.ac.nz) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: clare@staffpop.cs.auckland.ac.nz Message-Id: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:29:29 +1300 Subject: Re:Namer - Straw Poll Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" From: clare@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Clare West) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >And my question is: Do people prefer never-living things to have or not >have names and auras? my gut reaction is that no, they should not have auras or names. >This seems to me more of a flavour question than anything -- does >"Granite" have a true name? Even if it does, and even if Namers can >command things by the power of their names, I can't see Namers able to >command granite outside of its nature... I guess "Lie still!" and "Play >dead!" would be OK. although the idea of granite having a true name is interesting, i don't think that it adds as much to the game as it not having a true name does. clare -- Clare West, Rm 111, Ext 8266 clare@cs.auckland.ac.nz -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 11:05:14 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA28988; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:05:14 +1300 Received: from qedweb.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.140] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA28985 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:05:12 +1300 Received: by QEDWEB with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <45ZC7L2K>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:56:26 +1300 Message-ID: Subject: RE: Namer - Straw Poll Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:56:26 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is going slightly outside the scope of Martin's question and Namer but... Yes, rock air, fire, and water should have names and auras. Namers should get the GTN of these but not any questions. The appropriate elemental mages should be able to get GTN and ask questions of their element and magic of their college. Necro's should be able to DA formerly living. E&E's DA magic (similar to Binder DE). and so on. So that most colleges have a limited divinatory talent for things appropriate to their college, and Namers get to poke their noses into everything but not to as detailed a level (or maybe others get free information, Namers have to ask about everything). Rather than having the people with DA ask all the questions, the most appropriate person for the target asks the questions. Example: Party travelling through underground complex... E&E: Stop, there's a Ward up ahead... Fire, I think. Fire Mage: Cool, Hellfire, and a powerful one too. Earth: We can't tunnel around it the rock here has a high Iron content, though someone did manage to tunnel it about 50 years ago. Namer: Doesn't matter, I can get rid of the Ward, but we should be careful, the magic is demonic in origin and was only put here a few months ago. Air: The air down here hasn't moved in years, the tunnel can't go anywhere, it's probably just a dead-end or trap, let's go back to the surface. ... Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Dickson [SMTP:martind@peace.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 12:57 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Namer - Straw Poll > > Hi All, > > Quick straw poll question... well, OK, maybe not quick... > > In DQ2 even never-living things such as iron or granite had names (and > one supposes, auras), although this was not necessarily unambiguous, or > carried through consistently. > > In later revisions we removed this, and so now never-living things have > no names or auras. > > And my question is: Do people prefer never-living things to have or not > have names and auras? > > There are some implications with giving them names -- DA would work on > stone floors (for example) much the same as it does on wood at the > moment (aura or previously living over-rides "magic" and so the aura of > the ward, for example, is not immediately obvious), and there is the > question of auras for air and so-forth. > > The flip side is that perhaps it is a little more consistent, currently > there is no aura for water, but is there an aura for soup? Wine? Beer? > American beer? :) > > This seems to me more of a flavour question than anything -- does > "Granite" have a true name? Even if it does, and even if Namers can > command things by the power of their names, I can't see Namers able to > command granite outside of its nature... I guess "Lie still!" and "Play > dead!" would be OK. > > Cheers, > Martin > > -- > > _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com > _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 > Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 > > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 11:08:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA29007; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:08:37 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id LAA29004 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:08:35 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id LAA23484 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:00:36 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: RE: Namer - Straw Poll Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:58:26 +1300 Message-ID: <000301bf1ffd$3a9c1e00$2a7ad882@sci4.libraryserver.lbr.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Dear all, Sorry, My mailer has been converted & I seem to have missed/lost the original of the straw poll, but here are a few responses to some comments brought up. > What do we want in auras? If we want stuff that rock has, then rock has an aura. > If we only want stuff that living things and magic have, then they have auras. This is the key point. Something with an aura need NOT necessarily have a GTN (e.g. standard magic items). Conversely, a rock may have GTN of "granite", say, yet be without an aura. This fits nicely into the Great chain of Being feel to the universe. E.g. Gold may not have an aura, but it *is* the king of minerals. I personally would be happy if we said everything had a GTN, but only somethings have auras. In rough terms: everything *is* -- i.e. has a Name -- but only somethings have a spirit or power. Terry said: >A school > of thought believes, which seems reasonable to me, that when casting upon a > oak floor, you gain your bonus for your ranks in oak (i.e. zero ;). I say Yes, ONLY if the floor is an *entity* you wish to protect with a counterspell, or remove some spell of yours extant on it, etc. But if you are casting on an *area*, e.g. to stop a mage casting or to protect those standing there, then I say NO. The counter effects those IN the area, the area per se does not have a GTN, even if it lies on & above something that *does* have a GTN. Keith said: > Personally I'd go for 'plane at point of conception' or at whatever point > the body was given life for the first time. Not conception, I think. I'd go for birth since it is the *prime* factor in most astrological systems. > I say first time because being resurrected on a different plane would > otherwise change the contents of the plane of origin datum. Indeed; but If we stick to birth, rather than resurrection, that shouldn't matter -- unless Michael Parkinson Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian Science Library, University of Auckland, Private Bag 92019, AUCKLAND, N.Z. Email: m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz Phone: (09) 3737 599 x 5858 Fax: (09) 3082 304 ------------------------------------------------- This is true for all of science. Successes were largely due to forgetting completely about what one wanted ... in refusing to investigate things which profit, and relying solely on guidance by criteria of intellectual elegance; it was by following this rule that one actually got ahead in the long run, much better than any strictly utilitarian course would have permitted. -- von Neumann (1954) in "The Neumann Compendium" edited by Brody & Vamos (1995) =============================================================== -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 11:27:50 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA29102; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:50 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id LAA29099 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:48 +1300 Message-ID: <381628CE.C2D5B580@peace.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:18:54 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael Parkinson wrote: > Something with an aura need NOT necessarily have a > GTN (e.g. standard magic items). Conversely, a rock may have GTN of > "granite", say, yet be without an aura. I've always presumed that name is a sub-division of aura. That is to say, it is possible to have an aura without a name (eg. magic), but not possible to have a name without an aura. This need not be true -- it does however beg the question of how one would ever learn such a name if it cannot be detected in some way. Cheers, Martin -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 11:35:42 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id LAA29128; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:35:42 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id LAA29125 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:35:41 +1300 Message-ID: <38162AD0.75008500@peace.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:27:28 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael Parkinson wrote: > This is the key point. Something with an aura need NOT necessarily have a > GTN (e.g. standard magic items). Conversely, a rock may have GTN of > "granite", say, yet be without an aura. This fits nicely into the Great chain > of Being feel to the universe. E.g. Gold may not have an aura, but it *is* > the king of minerals. An interesting point. So a Namer can attempt to DA a rock, and if they succeed get 'granite, no aura'? Can a Celestial DA the rock, get 'no aura' and then ask 'GTN?' and get 'granite', or can only Namers get GTNs of unauraed objects? (If the latter, can we cast magic on the rock so that it has an aura, then DA it to ask GTN?) (As an aside, in the current rules, if I DA a rock succesfully and get 'no aura', what happens if the rock later gains a magical aura? Do I get to know this 'for free' without a new roll just by looking hard at the rock? Do I get to ask a question, despite it being several weeks since I made my DA roll?) Also be careful not to nullify parts of skills such as Alchemist. E.g. party find some mystery substance. The Namer hands it to the Alchemist who goes into a lab for several hours to figure out what it is. Eventually, they come out and the Namer says "Have you finished analysing the sulphuric acid at last?" > I say Yes, ONLY if the floor is an *entity* you wish to protect with a Careful - 'entity' has a technical meaning in DQ. I think you mean 'object' here. > counterspell, or remove some spell of yours extant on it, etc. But if you > are casting on an *area*, e.g. to stop a mage casting or to protect those > standing there, then I say NO. The counter effects those IN the area, the > area per se does not have a GTN, even if it lies on & above something that > *does* have a GTN. Good logic. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 12:00:45 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA29198; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:00:45 +1300 Received: from letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.35.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id MAA29195 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:00:44 +1300 Received: from andrewlpc (andrew-l-pc.cs.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.34.146]) by letterbox.cs.auckland.ac.nz (8.8.6/8.8.6/cs-master) with SMTP id LAA06894 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:14:58 +1300 (sender andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991103115423.009cd9e0@staffpop.cs.auckland.ac.nz> X-Sender: andrew-l@staffpop.cs.auckland.ac.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:54:23 +1300 Subject: Namers unusual abilities (aside) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Andrew Luxton To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Has anyone else noticed that namers can cast counterspells while in contact with cold iron (check the rules if you don't believe me)? Is this intentional? Andrew ------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Luxton andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz Department of Computer Science http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz University of Auckland Phone: +64 9 3737 599 x5654 Private Bag 92019, Auckland, NZ Fax: +64 9 3737 453 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 12:08:52 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA29226; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:08:52 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA29223 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:08:51 +1300 Message-ID: <3816326B.DAB0BCB1@peace.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:59:55 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namers unusual abilities (aside) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Oh, very nice loophole. And no, I very much doubt that this is intentional... probably just the usual DQ case of the right hand and left hand having communication difficulties. :) I'll bear this in mind for the revision. Cheers, Martin Andrew Luxton wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that namers can cast counterspells while in contact > with cold iron (check the rules if you don't believe me)? > > Is this intentional? > > Andrew > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Andrew Luxton andrew-l@cs.auckland.ac.nz > Department of Computer Science http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz > University of Auckland Phone: +64 9 3737 599 x5654 > Private Bag 92019, Auckland, NZ Fax: +64 9 3737 453 > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 12:30:43 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA29288; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:30:43 +1300 Received: from enterprise.iconz.co.nz (enterprise.iconz.co.nz [210.48.22.40]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id MAA29285 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:30:42 +1300 Received: (qmail 2630 invoked from network); 26 Oct 1999 23:22:54 -0000 Received: from e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz (HELO schroedinger) (202.14.100.208) by enterprise.iconz.co.nz with SMTP; 26 Oct 1999 23:22:54 -0000 Subject: RE: Namer - Straw Poll Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:20:47 +1300 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Mandos D Shadowspawn Esq" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > This is going slightly outside the scope of Martin's question and Namer > but... > > So that most colleges have a limited divinatory talent for things > appropriate to their college, and Namers get to poke their noses into > everything but not to as detailed a level (or maybe others get free > information, Namers have to ask about everything). > > Rather than having the people with DA ask all the questions, the most > appropriate person for the target asks the questions. This maybe outside of the original question but I do like the idea and I think it certainly merits looking into. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 13:06:54 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA29330; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:06:54 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA29327 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:06:53 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id MAA12357 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:58:54 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: RE: Namer - Straw Poll Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:56:44 +1300 Message-ID: <000201bf200d$c1e35cb0$2a7ad882@sci4.libraryserver.lbr.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael W wrote: > Michael Parkinson wrote: > > > This is the key point. Something with an aura need NOT > necessarily have a > > GTN (e.g. standard magic items). Conversely, a rock may have GTN of > > "granite", say, yet be without an aura. This fits nicely into > the Great chain > > of Being feel to the universe. E.g. Gold may not have an aura, > but it *is* > > the king of minerals. > > An interesting point. So a Namer can attempt to DA a rock, and if > they succeed get 'granite, no aura'? We *could* decide to do this. I'd prefer that the rock has No aura, hence the namer can never successfully DA it. >Can a Celestial DA the rock, get 'no aura' and then ask > 'GTN?' and get 'granite', or can only Namers get GTNs of unauraed > objects? I'd rather that no one saw the aura, because there wasn't one. > (If the latter, can we cast magic on the rock so that it has an aura, > then DA it to ask GTN?) No. The procedure seems to be currently, & probably quite correctly, that one sees the aura of the MAGIC [e.g. wards, etc]. The rock never had an aura & never will -- unless, say, it's turned into a magical construct, or whatever. Magic cast on a turnip instead *does* alter the turnip's aura; but then the turnip did have one to start with. > (As an aside, in the current rules, if I DA a rock succesfully and get 'no > aura', what happens if the rock later gains a magical aura? Do I > get to know this 'for free' without a new roll just by looking hard at the > rock? Do I get to ask a question, despite it being several weeks since I made my DA roll?) You never saw the aura of the magic before, so you *do* have to roll again. > Also be careful not to nullify parts of skills such as Alchemist. > E.g. party > find some mystery substance. The Namer hands it to the Alchemist > who goes into a > lab for several hours to figure out what it is. Eventually, they > come out and > the Namer says "Have you finished analysing the sulphuric acid at last?" Good point; yet another reason for not giving aurae to rocks, etc. Of course I have nothing against someone having an item which assists in determining an object's GTN. I'm sure the alchemist would want to bid for it. > > I say Yes, ONLY if the floor is an *entity* you wish to protect with a > > Careful - 'entity' has a technical meaning in DQ. I think you mean 'object' here. Actually I was deliberately quoting from the incredibly involved spell description -- one can NOT cast a counterspell on an object to increase it's magic resistance. By the rules, one can only cast a counterspell at an object to remove a ward on it; or a spell invested in it; or, presumably, to remove the effect of one's own magic on it -- as per the passage: " An Adept may always counter the effect of their own spell by the appropriate counterspell (unless otherwise specified in the spell description). " regards, Michael P. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 13:25:57 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA29371; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:25:57 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA29367 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:25:54 +1300 Message-ID: <38164474.62820211@peace.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:16:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael Parkinson wrote: > Michael W wrote: > > Careful - 'entity' has a technical meaning in DQ. I think you mean 'object' > here. > > Actually I was deliberately quoting from the incredibly involved spell > description... As part of revising Namer I've sort-of re-written the CS description... errr... I found it "incredibly involved" and I had trouble following it. I found it easier to write it as "bullet points" rather than complex prose. I'll post it along with the College... very soon now... :) Cheers, Martin -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 14:56:01 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id OAA29463; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:56:01 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id OAA29460 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:56:00 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p76-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.76]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id OAA27663 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:54 +1300 Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:51 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf201d$4795c000$4c8a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Steve Martin wrote: >This is going slightly outside the scope of Martin's question and Namer >but... > >Yes, rock air, fire, and water should have names and auras. >Namers should get the GTN of these but not any questions. >The appropriate elemental mages should be able to get GTN and ask questions >of their element and magic of their college. >Necro's should be able to DA formerly living. >E&E's DA magic (similar to Binder DE). >and so on. > >So that most colleges have a limited divinatory talent for things >appropriate to their college, and Namers get to poke their noses into >everything but not to as detailed a level (or maybe others get free >information, Namers have to ask about everything). > I find this idea attractive, but I would never advise giving players free information. Every piece of free information increases the workload of the DM. This suggestion of Stephen's, while it would doubtless create more flavour, also creates an exponential increase in workload. Not only does the DM now have to work out what the players can know, but they also have to work out how the players can get past these constraints. On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable that a mage should be able to detect the magic of their own particular field, and even to divine it. I propose that, if some kind of narrow DA is considered, then it act in much the same way DA does now, as opposed to the way Witchsight works. Passive information gathering is too administration intensive to be passed around wholesale. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 16:24:11 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA29579; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:24:11 +1300 Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA29576 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:24:10 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA03287 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:10:00 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <38166B99.5C041C88@games.co.nz> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:03:53 +1300 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namers unusual abilities (aside) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jono Bean To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Andrew Luxton wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that namers can cast counterspells while in contact > with cold iron (check the rules if you don't believe me)? > > Is this intentional? > > Andrew Yes. This is true. Its only for the General Counter Spells (all of them) because they don't have to prepare them before casting (only needs a cast action). Jono -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 16:44:28 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA29626; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:44:28 +1300 Received: from hermes.telebusiness.co.nz ([203.97.136.3] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA29623 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:44:06 +1300 Received: by hermes.telebusiness.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <4P1SWY1W>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:35:07 +1300 Message-ID: <51F30BB9AB60D311B4130020AFF7E3230B18A4@hermes.telebusiness.co.nz> Subject: RE: Namers unusual abilities (aside) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:35:04 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" From: Terry Spencer To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz But I'm sure we'll all agree that this is not what was intended, or what anyone plays. Terry Spencer SITEL Telebusiness NZ Ltd Phone +64 9 3738919 > Truth emerges more readily from error than confusion > > -----Original Message----- From: Jono Bean [mailto:jono@games.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 4:04 PM To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: Namers unusual abilities (aside) Andrew Luxton wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that namers can cast counterspells while in contact > with cold iron (check the rules if you don't believe me)? > > Is this intentional? > > Andrew Yes. This is true. Its only for the General Counter Spells (all of them) because they don't have to prepare them before casting (only needs a cast action). Jono -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 16:51:31 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA29645; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:51:31 +1300 Received: from qedweb.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.140] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA29642 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:51:30 +1300 Received: by QEDWEB with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <45ZC7LQD>; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:42:36 +1300 Message-ID: Subject: RE: Namer - Wider DA Idea Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:42:36 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz The GM workload aspect was my only reservation with this idea, rather than having 1 or 2 people with DA asking the GM questions, you'd have half the party asking questions within their specialist fields. I was never considering a passive talent and would be against an always-on DA no matter how restricted it was. Is this worth persuing further, Mandos and Jim are positive on the concept, does anyone have a reason to be violently opposed, or shall we start detailing the idea? Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Arona [SMTP:jimarona@ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 2:48 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll > > Steve Martin wrote: > >This is going slightly outside the scope of Martin's question and Namer > >but... > > > >Yes, rock air, fire, and water should have names and auras. > >Namers should get the GTN of these but not any questions. > >The appropriate elemental mages should be able to get GTN and ask > questions > >of their element and magic of their college. > >Necro's should be able to DA formerly living. > >E&E's DA magic (similar to Binder DE). > >and so on. > > > >So that most colleges have a limited divinatory talent for things > >appropriate to their college, > and Namers get to poke their noses into > >everything but not to as detailed a level (or maybe others get free > >information, Namers have to ask about everything). > > > I find this idea attractive, but I would never advise giving players > free information. Every piece of free information increases the workload > of > the DM. This suggestion of Stephen's, while it would doubtless create more > flavour, also creates an exponential increase in workload. Not only does > the > DM now have to work out what the players can know, but they also have to > work out how the players can get past these constraints. > On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable that a mage should be > able > to detect the magic of their own particular field, and even to divine it. > I > propose that, if some kind of narrow DA is considered, then it act in much > the same way DA does now, as opposed to the way Witchsight works. Passive > information gathering is too administration intensive to be passed around > wholesale. > Jim. > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Oct 27 17:35:47 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA29727; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:35:47 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id RAA29724 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:35:43 +1300 Message-ID: <38167EF5.35E4AD3B@peace.com> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:26:29 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Namer - Wider DA Idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz I like the idea of the Colleges having appropriate divinatory tools, but I'm not sold on the idea of making DA universal. I do agree that the elemental colleges could stand to have an ability to divine some information about their element, and E&Es should be able to sense enchantments and perhaps even "see" mana flow. I'd be quite in favour of an earth mage being able to tell what sort of rock they were touching, and whether it had veins of quartz or whatever, but I see no reason that they would necessarily be able to divine magical information -- even if that magic had affected the rock. Air mages should be able to sense currents and air flow better than others... but this need not have anything to do with auras or names. On the down side, there is the extra GM load... a zealous Earth mage with "rock reading" is going to mean that I need to know more about geology. I also tend to find that parties already attempt to use magic in preference to mundane means of gathering information, and a greater range of divinatory magics (even if each is narrower than the current DA) could increase this. I'm not "violently opposed" to the idea, but I would suggest that you seriously consider whether you want "half the party asking questions within their specialist fields". Of course another solution is to not make these abilities talents at all. There should probably be cheap general spells to do these tasks (one each in the appropriate colleges) and at a point of FT each that should cut down the number of questions. Cheers, Martin Stephen Martin wrote: > The GM workload aspect was my only reservation with this idea, rather than > having 1 or 2 people with DA asking the GM questions, you'd have half the > party asking questions within their specialist fields. > I was never considering a passive talent and would be against an always-on > DA no matter how restricted it was. > > Is this worth persuing further, Mandos and Jim are positive on the concept, > does anyone have a reason to be violently opposed, or shall we start > detailing the idea? > > Cheers, Stephen. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Arona [SMTP:jimarona@ihug.co.nz] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 2:48 PM > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Subject: Re: Namer - Straw Poll > > > > Steve Martin wrote: > > >This is going slightly outside the scope of Martin's question and Namer > > >but... > > > > > >Yes, rock air, fire, and water should have names and auras. > > >Namers should get the GTN of these but not any questions. > > >The appropriate elemental mages should be able to get GTN and ask > > questions > > >of their element and magic of their college. > > >Necro's should be able to DA formerly living. > > >E&E's DA magic (similar to Binder DE). > > >and so on. > > > > > >So that most colleges have a limited divinatory talent for things > > >appropriate to their college, > > and Namers get to poke their noses into > > >everything but not to as detailed a level (or maybe others get free > > >information, Namers have to ask about everything). > > > > > I find this idea attractive, but I would never advise giving players > > free information. Every piece of free information increases the workload > > of > > the DM. This suggestion of Stephen's, while it would doubtless create more > > flavour, also creates an exponential increase in workload. Not only does > > the > > DM now have to work out what the players can know, but they also have to > > work out how the players can get past these constraints. > > On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable that a mage should be > > able > > to detect the magic of their own particular field, and even to divine it. > > I > > propose that, if some kind of narrow DA is considered, then it act in much > > the same way DA does now, as opposed to the way Witchsight works. Passive > > information gathering is too administration intensive to be passed around > > wholesale. > > Jim. > > > > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --