From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 08:44:03 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id IAA26993; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:41:03 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id IAA26990 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:41:01 +1300 Message-ID: <383060A2.5D9A3F39@peace.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:36:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Jim Arona wrote: > [Martin]...a majority of those present at the two Namer workshops felt that > only Namers should be able to Rank them. > > [Jim] This isn't a democracy. Well... last time I looked GM's meetings were democratic, one diety, one vote, and all that... and since there is no explicit restriction on who may attend the meeting and their GMing credentials, then I would have to diagree with you there... DQ is mostly a representative democracy (GM's doing what they feel is best of the game overall and -- I hope -- the long term enjoyment of the most people possible) and occasionally becomes a hybrid participaing democracy when citizens turn up and vote. > [Jim] If that were the case, then nothing would have any flavour, because it > would be moderated by everyone's input. Well... yes... that is a risk, and I am no fan of design by committee. But there has been a GM desire for workshops to discuss large changes and get a feel for general opinion... and I had presumed -- unless these are completely for show only -- that taking those opinions and incorporating them into the new design was desirable. > [Jim] It's irrelevant what the majority think. What is good is good, > regardless of the opinions of a crowd of other people. From a certain point of view. Technically good game design may be argued to be just that... whether people (in general) appreciate it or not. However, this is less about architecture and more about entertainment -- and the flip side of the argument is that techncially good *game* design must be appreciated, otherwise it fails one of the prime test of "What s a game?". If it is no fun to play -- then what is the point? DQ does not need to be technically perfect... it needs to be played and enjoyed, warts and all. > [Martin] The MA limit is designed to a) give ITNs some actual though > intangible worth -- and perhaps make PCs perhaps a little more reluctant to > part with this valuable data, > > [Jim] Don't see how that rule does that. It just makes them rarer. To have > value, a thing must be wanted in the first place, and a restriction placed > on the supply. All this does is put a restriction on the supply. You have > cancelled any interest in acquiring a name, by only allowing a Namer to rank > Names higher than 0. Interesting. We are obviously approaching this from two different beliefs. It is my understanding that the "Only namers may rank names" is the status quo -- and that a rule to that effect is merely codification of what is commonly played. I was assuming that generally Namers did want to acquire ITNs -- so there was a demand -- and that restricting the supply would make them percieved as more valuable. > [Martin] and e) explain in part the rarity of ITNs. > > [Jim] Rarity is easy. You don't award too many of them. You don't need to do > more than that. This one can be covered by saying that ITNs are rare. You > don't need to explain it, anymore than you need to write a rule that says > the Sun will come up in the morning. Sorry... perhaps "rarity" was the wrong word. I mean a restriction/explanation to create a negative pressure for ITNs once granted by a single GM to pervade the PC Namer community. If Names have value within the game (at least to Namers) and are rare (I believe we desire them to be rare) then it behooves us to a have a mechanism to restrict their free spread. > [Jim] I don't. I think it just narrows options to no useful purpose. > Already, > players have to look for reasons to bother with Names, even though they are > rare enough, and give a good bonus. Err... they "give a good bonus"? Only to Namers (and one odd spell in E&E)... so yes, I can see why PCs generally don't bother with them... they give zilch... even if you presume that anyone can rank them, only Namers gain bonuses from them. This is another reason why we can let non-Namers rank them if they wish... but there is currently no benefit to it. Cheers, Martin -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 08:58:50 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id IAA27025; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:52:24 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id IAA27022 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:52:19 +1300 Message-ID: <38306369.7EDFAAB7@peace.com> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 08:47:53 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Evil idea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz One evening in the pub, Hoo the sometimes-leprachaun suddenly perks up and a light bulb (red) appears briefly over his head. "Hey", he says, "I just had a fun idea - love potion roulette!". He starts to sing "One of these potions is not like the others..." -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 09:13:45 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id JAA27056; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:12:19 +1300 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id JAA27053 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:12:17 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id JAA23758 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:08:14 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: RE: Evil idea Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:09:37 +1300 Message-ID: <000201bf2fa5$578ef840$2a7ad882@sci4.libraryserver.lbr.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz > One evening in the pub, Hoo the sometimes-leprechaun suddenly perks up > and a light bulb (red) appears briefly over his head. "Hey", he says, "I > just had a fun idea - love potion roulette!". He starts to sing "One of > these potions is not like the others..." That's new to the Guild: Making potion consumption a matter of choice. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 18:14:50 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA27694; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:05:51 +1300 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA27691 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:05:43 +1300 Subject: Spell Price Review X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0 (Intl) 30 March 1999 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 16:45:07 +1300 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on akl-notes.aj.co.nz/AJNzl/NZ(Release 5.0.1b (Intl)|30 September 1999) at 16/11/99 17:56:37 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_mixed 00148865CC25682B_=" From: RMansfield@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz --=_mixed 00148865CC25682B_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00148868CC25682B_=" --=_alternative 00148868CC25682B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here are the results of the review of the availability and prices of spells (pdf format). Things we took into account: * spells given a nominal 'toughness' class and priced accordingly. This allowed some consistency across colleges and comparison on like with like. * more spells to be generally available to allow more variety between characters. Generally spells unavailable were in the OTT class When looking at a spell price check out it's toughness and other spells with the same class. I don't want to fiddle with too many individual spells (it takes about 8 hours to go through the whole lot thoroughly), but fire away the brickbats - I'm braced to duck : > Rosemary --=_alternative 00148868CC25682B_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Here are the results of the review of the availability and prices of spells (pdf format).

Things we took into account:
* spells given a nominal 'toughness' class and priced accordingly.  This allowed some consistency across colleges and comparison on like with like.
*  more spells to be generally available to allow more variety between characters.  Generally spells unavailable were in the OTT class

When looking at a spell price check out it's toughness and other spells with the same class.
I don't want to fiddle with too many individual spells (it takes about 8 hours to go through the whole lot thoroughly), but fire away the brickbats - I'm braced to duck : >

Rosemary
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IG4gDTAwMDAwMTQ4NjIgMDAwMDAgbiANMDAwMDAxMTk5MyAwMDAwMCBuIA0wMDAwMDE0ODQxIDAw MDAwIG4gDTAwMDAwMTc2MDEgMDAwMDAgbiANMDAwMDAxNTAwNSAwMDAwMCBuIA0wMDAwMDE3NTgw IDAwMDAwIG4gDXRyYWlsZXINPDwNL1NpemUgMjkNL1Jvb3QgMyAwIFINL0luZm8gMSAwIFINL0lE IFs8ZGJjNTUxODk1NzQ2YWRhOTBkYTc5ZTY4YzllMTNmNjY+PGRiYzU1MTg5NTc0NmFkYTkwZGE3 OWU2OGM5ZTEzZjY2Pl0NPj4Nc3RhcnR4cmVmDTIyMzM0DSUlRU9GDQ== --=_mixed 00148865CC25682B_=-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 18:59:51 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA27762; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:53:01 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA27758 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:52:56 +1300 Received: from paul (p22-max14.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.227.214]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA30964 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:48:37 +1300 Message-ID: <00bc01bf2ff6$24894760$6564640a@paul> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:47:58 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Paul Schmidt" To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: "Paul Schmidt" , dq@dq.sf.org.nz Terry told me to say, Dean is right about magic resistance Paul -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 19:00:34 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA27752; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:49:33 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA27749 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:49:32 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p169-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.169]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA30596 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:45:13 +1300 Subject: Re: Spell Price Review Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:44:18 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf2ff5$9fe15160$a98a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF3062.96DA9960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF3062.96DA9960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is the meaning of 'never' in the spell cost column? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: RMansfield@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999 18:10 Subject: Spell Price Review =20 =20 =20 Here are the results of the review of the availability and prices of = spells (pdf format).=20 =20 Things we took into account:=20 * spells given a nominal 'toughness' class and priced accordingly. = This allowed some consistency across colleges and comparison on like = with like.=20 * more spells to be generally available to allow more variety = between characters. Generally spells unavailable were in the OTT class=20 =20 When looking at a spell price check out it's toughness and other = spells with the same class.=20 I don't want to fiddle with too many individual spells (it takes = about 8 hours to go through the whole lot thoroughly), but fire away the = brickbats - I'm braced to duck : >=20 =20 Rosemary=20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF3062.96DA9960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What is the meaning of 'never' in = the spell cost=20 column?
Jim.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 RMansfield@aj.co.nz = <RMansfield@aj.co.nz>
To:= =20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date:=20 Tuesday, 16 November 1999 18:10
Subject: Spell Price=20 Review


Here = are the=20 results of the review of the availability and prices of spells (pdf=20 format).

Things we = took into=20 account:
* spells given = a nominal=20 'toughness' class and priced accordingly.  This allowed some=20 consistency across colleges and comparison on like with like. =
*  more spells to be = generally=20 available to allow more variety between characters.  Generally = spells=20 unavailable were in the OTT class

When looking at a spell price check out it's toughness and = other=20 spells with the same class.
I don't=20 want to fiddle with too many individual spells (it takes about 8 = hours to go=20 through the whole lot thoroughly), but fire away the brickbats - I'm = braced=20 to duck : >

Rosemary=20
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BF3062.96DA9960-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 19:02:59 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA27743; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:43:21 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA27740 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:43:19 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p169-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.169]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA30098 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:39:02 +1300 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:38:04 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf2ff4$c12953a0$a98a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > >Well... last time I looked GM's meetings were democratic, one diety, one vote, >and all that... and since there is no explicit restriction on who may attend the >meeting and their GMing credentials, then I would have to diagree with you >there... DQ is mostly a representative democracy (GM's doing what they feel is >best of the game overall and -- I hope -- the long term enjoyment of the most >people possible) and occasionally becomes a hybrid participaing democracy when >citizens turn up and vote. If it were a democracy, then there would be elected members. That isn't the way it works. Whoever turns up gets a vote. That's definitely not democratic, which is rule on behalf of the electorate. > >> [Jim] If that were the case, then nothing would have any flavour, because it >> would be moderated by everyone's input. > >Well... yes... that is a risk, and I am no fan of design by committee. But >there has been a GM desire for workshops to discuss large changes and get a feel >for general opinion... and I had presumed -- unless these are completely for >show only -- that taking those opinions and incorporating them into the new >design was desirable. This endeavour is about finding the best possible game for the group to enjoy. The method by which change is enacted is only relevant if it leads toward something that is productive. However, those who have voices also have agendas of their own, which do not always point toward a better game. They certainly offer the defence that their agenda is one they think is for the betterment of the game, but I'd say that they're pretty specious. Aside from that, you have people who seriously argue a rationalisation as being useful to the progress of a game. For example, I have seen someone say that a bolt spell cannot be cast at a target that is known, but not visible, because the legal target is 'entity'. Not in the middle of a game, mind you...In a discussion about what advantage different types of attack spells might offer. On the one hand you have people whose motives are suspect, because they seem to regularly seek advantage for their characters. And on the other hand, you have people whose grasp of what a rule is, is particularly shaky. Not to say, worrying... You may argue that this 'democratic' process is likely to produce inequities because of the checks and balances that a group may exert on its members. I put it to you that the recent interpretational argument about MR is an example of the lack of checks and balances. Not that I care that much, really. I don't think that it's a great idea, encouraging, as it does, active resistance...On the other hand, I could live with it, if I had to. I suggest that the condemnatory opinions of the people who messaged the list were lobbied for and gained, by one person at that meeting, who went around looking for the most senior Namers he could find, and encouraged them to email their flames.Again, this is not democracy, it is rule by public relations.> >> [Jim] It's irrelevant what the majority think. What is good is good, >> regardless of the opinions of a crowd of other people. > >From a certain point of view. From any point of view. The value of something is not decided by the majority. >Technically good game design may be argued to be >just that... whether people (in general) appreciate it or not. However, this is >less about architecture and more about entertainment -- and the flip side of the >argument is that techncially good *game* design must be appreciated, otherwise >it fails one of the prime test of "What s a game?". If it is no fun to play -- >then what is the point? DQ does not need to be technically perfect... it needs >to be played and enjoyed, warts and all. Who cares if it's technically perfect. I certainly don't. What you seem to be saying is that a good game (from an entertainment point of view) is determined by the majority. Crap. If that were the case, people like Eric Satie would never have been accepted as good. I'm not saying that good entertainment can exist without an audience. I am saying that the people who are doing the deciding of what is good are in the position of network executives, and without any of the training of those wights. It would be the height of presumption to assume that the people who attend God's Meetings have anything like a finger on the pulse. Mostly, they either lack any imagination, or they are pursuing their own dreams of power. > >> [Martin] The MA limit is designed to a) give ITNs some actual though >> intangible worth -- and perhaps make PCs perhaps a little more reluctant to >> part with this valuable data, >> >> [Jim] Don't see how that rule does that. It just makes them rarer. To have >> value, a thing must be wanted in the first place, and a restriction placed >> on the supply. All this does is put a restriction on the supply. You have >> cancelled any interest in acquiring a name, by only allowing a Namer to rank >> Names higher than 0. > >Interesting. We are obviously approaching this from two different beliefs. It >is my understanding that the "Only namers may rank names" is the status quo -- >and that a rule to that effect is merely codification of what is commonly >played. Not as far as I'm aware. Only a Namer gains any benefit from ranking the name. People can rank any name they like. Hell, I would, on the off chance that it might help me out someday...I wouldn't do it if I had other things to do with my ep, but if I didn't have any ep, I might choose to rank a few names. > >I was assuming that generally Namers did want to acquire ITNs -- so there was a >demand -- and that restricting the supply would make them percieved as more >valuable. No, as far as I'm aware. Namers only really want the ITNs of their friends, so they can get some good bonuses to cast on them. That's about it, really, and they're usually only lukewarm about their interest at the best of times. What else can you do with an ITN? Bugger all, really. > >> [Martin] and e) explain in part the rarity of ITNs. >> >> [Jim] Rarity is easy. You don't award too many of them. You don't need to do >> more than that. This one can be covered by saying that ITNs are rare. You >> don't need to explain it, anymore than you need to write a rule that says >> the Sun will come up in the morning. > >Sorry... perhaps "rarity" was the wrong word. I mean a restriction/explanation >to create a negative pressure for ITNs once granted by a single GM to pervade >the PC Namer community. If Names have value within the game (at least to >Namers) and are rare (I believe we desire them to be rare) then it behooves us >to a have a mechanism to restrict their free spread. By and large, even with this new college, there isn't enough magic that really matters as far as ITNs are concerned. The spell would have to do something pretty serious before it would make a non-Namer player worry about it too much. If you want to restrict Names, restrict them at the other end. Say that this Name can't be taught. We have spells that can't be taught, at the moment, and life has gone on happily enough. > >> [Jim] I don't. I think it just narrows options to no useful purpose. >> Already, >> players have to look for reasons to bother with Names, even though they are >> rare enough, and give a good bonus. > >Err... they "give a good bonus"? Only to Namers [jim: should have said 'give a good bonuse to Namers'] (and one odd spell in E&E)... >so yes, I can see why PCs generally don't bother with them... they give zilch... >even if you presume that anyone can rank them, only Namers gain bonuses from >them. This is another reason why we can let non-Namers rank them if they >wish... but there is currently no benefit to it. Exactly. Then, if we want to control something by GTN or ITN progression, we can. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Nov 16 19:28:51 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA27824; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:18:45 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA27821 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:18:44 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p169-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.169]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA00977; Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:14:24 +1300 Subject: Re: Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:13:23 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf2ff9$b076c880$a98a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Looks for Terry strings... -----Original Message----- From: Paul Schmidt To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999 19:01 >Terry told me to say, > >Dean is right about magic resistance > >Paul > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --