From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 00:06:01 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id XAA32020; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:50:58 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA32017 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:50:57 +1300 Received: from phaeton (p158-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.203.158]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA04755 for ; Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:45:27 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19991118234503.0089f3e0@pop.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: phaeton@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:45:03 +1300 Subject: Re: Evil idea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Keith Smith To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz At 20:20 18-11-1999 +1300, you wrote: > >-- > >>> >One evening in the pub, Hoo the sometimes-leprachaun suddenly perks up >>> >and a light bulb (red) appears briefly over his head. "Hey", he says, "I >>> >just had a fun idea - love potion roulette!". He starts to sing "One of >>> >these potions is not like the others..." >>> >>> "Hmm... What a fun game. Let me try one of my own. "(pulling out an Iolo >>> crossbow, Michael Correlia loads it and points it at Hoo). >>> "It's called, do I have witchsight or not? " , Michael tracks the >>> illusionist. >>> "Love potions are insidious and evil things unlike this moraly neutral >>> crossbow. Don't worry it's a hunting bolt (flat wooden head as opposed to >>> wickedly sharp steel) " >> >>Hoo looks at the tip of the bolt - and is disturbed by his inability to see >>the rest of it. "Um, no, you're thinking of when they get used on >>unsuspecting victims. Why should it be evil if I want to drink a love >>potion? Or risk drinking one? If I were a princess forced to marry some >>ugly, smelly old man for political reasons, I think a regular supply of >love >>potions would make life much more pleasant." >> > > >While keeping the Iolo pointed at Hoo, Michael drinks from his mug. >"My dear chap love potions subvert the will and force an attitude of love on >the victim. Who can say whether they want to or not, truly. And also, unlike >the so called real thing you don't get to change your mind. Controling >people against their will is evil my stupid illusionist." Michael removes a >waist belt (which seems to have nothing to do with keeping his trousers up). >"Come closer and I'll explain further." Aqualina, attracted by the 'conversation' slides over. "I couldn't agree more. Love potions fall under the same category as Compel Obeidience, Charm, and whatever it is that Mind Mages use." Turns to Hoo. "Maybe you should play roulette with something less harmful - a poison potion perhaps. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 02:20:56 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id CAA32207; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:08:24 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id CAA32204 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:08:23 +1300 Received: from dworkin (p234-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.203.234]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id CAA10644 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:02:48 +1300 Message-ID: <001601bf31c6$a27622c0$4301a8c0@dworkin.ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Evil idea Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 02:12:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 From: "Dworkin" To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz -- >>>>> >One evening in the pub, Hoo the sometimes-leprachaun suddenly perks up >>>> >and a light bulb (red) appears briefly over his head. "Hey", he says, "I >>>> >just had a fun idea - love potion roulette!". He starts to sing "One of >>>> >these potions is not like the others..." >>>> >>>> "Hmm... What a fun game. Let me try one of my own. "(pulling out an Iolo >>>> crossbow, Michael Correlia loads it and points it at Hoo). >>>> "It's called, do I have witchsight or not? " , Michael tracks the >>>> illusionist. >>>> "Love potions are insidious and evil things unlike this moraly neutral >>>> crossbow. Don't worry it's a hunting bolt (flat wooden head as opposed to >>>> wickedly sharp steel) " >>> >>>Hoo looks at the tip of the bolt - and is disturbed by his inability to see >>>the rest of it. "Um, no, you're thinking of when they get used on >>>unsuspecting victims. Why should it be evil if I want to drink a love >>>potion? Or risk drinking one? If I were a princess forced to marry some >>>ugly, smelly old man for political reasons, I think a regular supply of >>love >>>potions would make life much more pleasant." >>> >> >> >>While keeping the Iolo pointed at Hoo, Michael drinks from his mug. >>"My dear chap love potions subvert the will and force an attitude of love on >>the victim. Who can say whether they want to or not, truly. And also, unlike >>the so called real thing you don't get to change your mind. Controling >>people against their will is evil my stupid illusionist." Michael removes a >>waist belt (which seems to have nothing to do with keeping his trousers up). >>"Come closer and I'll explain further." > >Aqualina, attracted by the 'conversation' slides over. > >"I couldn't agree more. Love potions fall under the same category as Compel >Obeidience, Charm, and whatever it is that Mind Mages use." > >Turns to Hoo. > >"Maybe you should play roulette with something less harmful - a poison >potion perhaps. > "Ahh yes. Aquilina, an expert on love and it's follies. How would you like to be bonded to, who is it again Krynn or Engalton?." Michael laughs, never losing a lock on Hoo. "Then again nobody would be so jealous or vindictive as to take these comments seriously? You don't know anyone like that. Do you Aquilina?" -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 16:21:25 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA00609; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:16:14 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA00604 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:16:13 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p204-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.204]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA28872 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:10:17 +1300 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:09:02 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf323b$6e6f2420$cc8a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mike raised a point, that I hadn't realised before. According to the original rules, there is no limit to the rank you can achieve with a name. The question it raises is whether or not that's a good thing...I can see lots of bonuses for either opinion... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999 08:40 Subject: Re: Comments on Names >Jim Arona wrote: > >> [Martin]...a majority of those present at the two Namer workshops felt that >> only Namers should be able to Rank them. >> >> [Jim] This isn't a democracy. > >Well... last time I looked GM's meetings were democratic, one diety, one vote, >and all that... and since there is no explicit restriction on who may attend the >meeting and their GMing credentials, then I would have to diagree with you >there... DQ is mostly a representative democracy (GM's doing what they feel is >best of the game overall and -- I hope -- the long term enjoyment of the most >people possible) and occasionally becomes a hybrid participaing democracy when >citizens turn up and vote. > >> [Jim] If that were the case, then nothing would have any flavour, because it >> would be moderated by everyone's input. > >Well... yes... that is a risk, and I am no fan of design by committee. But >there has been a GM desire for workshops to discuss large changes and get a feel >for general opinion... and I had presumed -- unless these are completely for >show only -- that taking those opinions and incorporating them into the new >design was desirable. > >> [Jim] It's irrelevant what the majority think. What is good is good, >> regardless of the opinions of a crowd of other people. > >From a certain point of view. Technically good game design may be argued to be >just that... whether people (in general) appreciate it or not. However, this is >less about architecture and more about entertainment -- and the flip side of the >argument is that techncially good *game* design must be appreciated, otherwise >it fails one of the prime test of "What s a game?". If it is no fun to play -- >then what is the point? DQ does not need to be technically perfect... it needs >to be played and enjoyed, warts and all. > >> [Martin] The MA limit is designed to a) give ITNs some actual though >> intangible worth -- and perhaps make PCs perhaps a little more reluctant to >> part with this valuable data, >> >> [Jim] Don't see how that rule does that. It just makes them rarer. To have >> value, a thing must be wanted in the first place, and a restriction placed >> on the supply. All this does is put a restriction on the supply. You have >> cancelled any interest in acquiring a name, by only allowing a Namer to rank >> Names higher than 0. > >Interesting. We are obviously approaching this from two different beliefs. It >is my understanding that the "Only namers may rank names" is the status quo -- >and that a rule to that effect is merely codification of what is commonly >played. > >I was assuming that generally Namers did want to acquire ITNs -- so there was a >demand -- and that restricting the supply would make them percieved as more >valuable. > >> [Martin] and e) explain in part the rarity of ITNs. >> >> [Jim] Rarity is easy. You don't award too many of them. You don't need to do >> more than that. This one can be covered by saying that ITNs are rare. You >> don't need to explain it, anymore than you need to write a rule that says >> the Sun will come up in the morning. > >Sorry... perhaps "rarity" was the wrong word. I mean a restriction/explanation >to create a negative pressure for ITNs once granted by a single GM to pervade >the PC Namer community. If Names have value within the game (at least to >Namers) and are rare (I believe we desire them to be rare) then it behooves us >to a have a mechanism to restrict their free spread. > >> [Jim] I don't. I think it just narrows options to no useful purpose. >> Already, >> players have to look for reasons to bother with Names, even though they are >> rare enough, and give a good bonus. > >Err... they "give a good bonus"? Only to Namers (and one odd spell in E&E)... >so yes, I can see why PCs generally don't bother with them... they give zilch... >even if you presume that anyone can rank them, only Namers gain bonuses from >them. This is another reason why we can let non-Namers rank them if they >wish... but there is currently no benefit to it. > >Cheers, > Martin > > >-- > > _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com >_/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 > Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 > > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 16:38:12 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA00657; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:30:02 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id QAA00653 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:30:00 +1300 Message-ID: <3834C2BF.F2630963@peace.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:23:44 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Jim Arona wrote: > Mike raised a point, that I hadn't realised before. According to the > original rules, there is no limit to the rank you can achieve with a name. > The question it raises is whether or not that's a good thing...I can see > lots of bonuses for either opinion... > Jim. I think there should be a limit. It only takes about 100 years to rank a GTN to 100, so without a limit any 2000 year old Elven Namer you meet should have base chances of around 300% to cast on any PC race. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 16:40:45 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA00631; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:23:14 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA00628 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:23:13 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p204-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.204]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA29900 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:17:05 +1300 Subject: Re: Comments on Namer Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:15:17 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf323c$4df08c60$cc8a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> Compelling Obedience... I could wish that the English were a little tidied >> up.... I understand that you don't want it to be >> able to deliver commands contrary to nature and common sense. > >Yes. Well... not necessarily common sense... the person being commanded may >have precious little of that. :) > >> I suggest that this requires the active judgment of the DM, > >Always. > >> and that in any event, the number of words used in such a spell should be no >> more than 2. > >That wasn't explicitly intended -- and tends to lead to the "Infocom game" where >you try to find the exact 2 word combination that fits the situation and >descibes exactly what you want... "Defenestrate yourself"... rather than "Jump >out the window". I'd rather rely on GM common sense. > >> I suggest this, so that a >> character might refuse to do something unpleasant, but not necessarily >> abhorrent or directly suicidal. In addition, it offers the character an >> opportunity for noble martyrdom. > >Noble matyrdom seems a good cause. In discussing this with Mike, another point occurred to me. As far as DMing characters in the Guild, the problem is determining what IS repugnant to a character. In other words, it is very hard to tell what a character would NEVER do (or not do, I suppose). This makes it very hard to reasonably judge when the WP check would apply for a PC. A DM may feel compelled to award a check at every unpleasant compulsion, weakening this spell unnecessarily. If the spell inflicts damage at non-compliance, then the player decides what level of opposition the character has to a particular command. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 16:51:26 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA00699; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:45:33 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA00696 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:45:32 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p204-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.204]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA01205 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:39:29 +1300 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:38:08 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf323f$7f5887a0$cc8a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Yes. But only for Naming Incantations. And, it's only a bonus to base chance. The only characters to benefit are NPCs.... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Friday, 19 November 1999 16:32 Subject: Re: Comments on Names >Jim Arona wrote: > >> Mike raised a point, that I hadn't realised before. According to the >> original rules, there is no limit to the rank you can achieve with a name. >> The question it raises is whether or not that's a good thing...I can see >> lots of bonuses for either opinion... >> Jim. > >I think there should be a limit. It only takes about 100 years to rank a GTN to >100, so without a limit any 2000 year old Elven Namer you meet should have base >chances of around 300% to cast on any PC race. > > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 17:22:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA00746; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:06:19 +1300 Received: from peace.com (defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id RAA00743 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:06:18 +1300 Message-ID: <3834CB3F.EB3A28C@peace.com> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:59:59 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz But if you want to have an Elven namer NPC who *doesn't* have cricket score base chances, you have to explain it away somehow (yes, it is a 500 year old elf, but they only learned Naming 20 years ago) or live with the inconsistancy. (Especially tricky when one of the party insists on highlighting it by saying "I've met Elven namers before and they're *really nasty* because they double effect on you half the time, and can't fail a spell!".) Of course, if name ranks are limited and you *want* a namer with cricket score base chances, you are pretty much out of luck. From a PC point of view, it doesn't make much difference - it is unlikely that anyone is going to spend more than 4 years ranking one GTN, so a limit of rank 20 would have no effect on PCs anyhow. There is some quote about insistance on consistancy being the bugbear of small minds. I guess I must just be small minded. Jim Arona wrote: > Yes. But only for Naming Incantations. And, it's only a bonus to base > chance. > The only characters to benefit are NPCs.... > Jim. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Woodhams > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Date: Friday, 19 November 1999 16:32 > Subject: Re: Comments on Names > > >Jim Arona wrote: > > > >> Mike raised a point, that I hadn't realised before. According to the > >> original rules, there is no limit to the rank you can achieve with a > name. > >> The question it raises is whether or not that's a good thing...I can see > >> lots of bonuses for either opinion... > >> Jim. > > > >I think there should be a limit. It only takes about 100 years to rank a > GTN to > >100, so without a limit any 2000 year old Elven Namer you meet should have > base > >chances of around 300% to cast on any PC race. > > > > > > > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Fri Nov 19 17:36:45 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA00787; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:34:31 +1300 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA00784 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:34:30 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p204-tnt8.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.138.204]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA09906 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:28:27 +1300 Subject: Re: Comments on Names Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 17:27:09 +1300 Message-ID: <01bf3246$58a26340$cc8a6dcb@jimarona.ihug.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a message to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Friday, 19 November 1999 17:16 Subject: Re: Comments on Names >But if you want to have an Elven namer NPC who *doesn't* have cricket score >base chances, you have to explain it away somehow (yes, it is a 500 year old >elf, but they only learned Naming 20 years ago) or live with the >inconsistancy. (Especially tricky when one of the party insists on >highlighting it by saying "I've met Elven namers before and they're *really >nasty* because they double effect on you half the time, and can't fail a >spell!".) It's easy to explain lower BCs for NPCs. They tend to have a much more elemental characterisation than PCs. If they are novice Namers, then that's fine. Or, they may have specialised in the Names of extra-planar entities, and never gotten around to the more prosaic (and, from some weird elven point of view, quite boring) names. > >Of course, if name ranks are limited and you *want* a namer with cricket score >base chances, you are pretty much out of luck. > >From a PC point of view, it doesn't make much difference - it is unlikely that >anyone is going to spend more than 4 years ranking one GTN, so a limit of rank >20 would have no effect on PCs anyhow. There are PCs now, with ranks higher than 20. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --