From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 12:58:06 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA22388; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:43:36 +1300 Message-Id: <199912202343.MAA22388@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA17345 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:14:19 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p136-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.136]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA13338 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:06:08 +1300 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:03:59 +1300 Subject: Re: Black Circle: Raising Some Defenses From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Kelsie To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 20 December 1999 12:06 Subject: Re: Black Circle: Raising Some Defenses >Stephen Martin wrote: >> >> First a general query about timing: >> When (game date) did the black circle expand? >> When would characters at the guild have become aware of it? >> When would refugees have started flooding out of Brastor? > >How fast was it moving or was it a single big jump? >How far away is the centre? >> >> I would like to know this so that I know when my characters that have the >> inclination can start acting, and what they could have reasonably achieved. > >So who can tell us these things. >We're getting plenty of character replies, but no answers to these basic questions. That's because you need to get off your arse and go out and find the answers. Instead you seem to be waiting for character replies that are clearly not being offered by the DMs involved. The only reasonable answer if the question is critical to you, is to actually do something about it and find someone who will run adventure where you can find these things out. Jim -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 12:59:08 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id MAA22393; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 12:43:47 +1300 Message-Id: <199912202343.MAA22393@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id XAA17380 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:18:29 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p136-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.136]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA13769 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:10:21 +1300 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:08:12 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Monday, 20 December 1999 13:10 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting >Jim Arona wrote: > >> These DMs don't get paid for this. They do it for fun. They produce >> stories, even in the face of the ingratitude of people who have never DMed >> before. People who expect to have an equal right to commment on the work >> involved, yet show no signs of offering anything to replace what they would >> rather see gone. >> >> While I feel disgust at the reactions expressed to date, I am depressed >> to note that I don't feel any surprise at this negativity. > >At the GM's meeting the week before the Guild meeting there was little -- if any >-- negative response to the Dark Circle proposal. In fact it was probably the >most laid-back monthly meeting that I have been to in years, and the proposal >was viewed (I thought) with a good deal of enthusiasm. > >My concerns stem from the exact handling of the event, to wit: > >1) Having it occur 2 weeks in the past, as of the Guild meeting: >a) at a time when many/most PCs were available even if players were still >engaged in missions >b) in such as way as no PC could be involved in the supposed events -- the >direct attack on Borastor, the death of Iestus, etc. > >2) Having little or no direct involvement with these events mirrored in the >games going out this session. > >3) Having a number of apparently player inter-active events listed in the >campaign paper(s) without a GM arranged, eg. Call up of ex-Borderers, Ducal >commands, Elven recall. > >>One can't go around and >>institute a change of the nature of casually >>speaking to the Duke and turn >>him into your favourite chocolate covered amphibian. > >I tend to agree, but with no GM involved I am expected (and encouraged) to make >a story change for my character and can only go from my own judgement as to what >is a reasonable scope of change and what is not. > >I feel that if you read through the objections raised (whether by players or >GMs) you will find little negativity to event per se, but rather questions of >the order of: "Can I do X?", "Who is handling Y?" and "Why could I not have >done Z?". All of theses have arisen through the exact handling of the event, >and not -- as it appears to me -- through a desire not to be involved in >stories. > My only response to this is that it is crap, passing itself off as reason. This line of bullshit is nothing more than negative cant. What you are saying is 'Why couldn't I have done x?' or 'Why wasn't answering this question (which is obvious to me)?' Well, frankly, the only opinion about this that I have is that you are making a career out of attacking an idea that is not your own. Don't bother responding. Just grow up...The lot of you. Jim. >Regards, > Martin > >-- > > _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com >_/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 > Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 > > > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 13:28:05 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA23687; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:20:38 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210020.NAA23687@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from defacto.peace.co.nz (root@defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA23683 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:20:32 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:10:00 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Jim Arona wrote: >My only response to this is that it is crap, passing itself off a >reason. This line of bullshit is nothing more than negative cant. And my response is that this is a childish temper tantrum. >Well, frankly, the only opinion about this that I have is that you are >making a career out of attacking an idea that is not your own. Hmm... an interesting observation based on my obviously cunning objections to the Dark Circle event concealed as enthusiasm. - Martin -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 13:28:57 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA23698; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:21:35 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210021.NAA23698@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from enterprise.iconz.co.nz (enterprise.iconz.co.nz [210.48.22.40]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with SMTP id NAA23694 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:21:31 +1300 Received: (qmail 23864 invoked from network); 21 Dec 1999 00:14:01 -0000 Received: from e0.firewall.ak.iconz.net.nz (HELO Escher) (202.14.100.208) by enterprise.iconz.co.nz with SMTP; 21 Dec 1999 00:14:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:11:15 +1300 Subject: RE: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Mandos Mitchinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > My only response to this is that it is crap, passing itself off as > reason. This line of bullshit is nothing more than negative cant. > What you are saying is 'Why couldn't I have done x?' or 'Why wasn't > answering this question (which is obvious to me)?' > Well, frankly, the only opinion about this that I have is that you are > making a career out of attacking an idea that is not your own. > Don't bother responding. Just grow up...The lot of you. As opposed to attacking people that don't think like you do? The fact is most people on here are keen to get involved in this event, unlike some people however most ae polite enough to try to gain information so that their contributions will work with other people rather than treading on toes. Any group event like this needs some information disseminated so people can work within the story that other have worked to create. This is called manners. Not laziness. If people were lazy then they would not even bother asking the questions but would just ignore the event and go on as usual. These people are making the effort to get involved and the level of detail that people are asking for is not unreasonable. Mandos /s -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 13:43:05 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA23734; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:28:52 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210028.NAA23734@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from defacto.peace.co.nz (root@defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA23730 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:28:48 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:18:09 +1300 Subject: January From: Martin Dickson To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting? The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd. Should we defer the meeting for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on holiday? Cheers, Martin -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Analyst Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 13:58:05 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id NAA23909; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:50:34 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210050.NAA23909@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz (ns.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id NAA23905 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:50:30 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:35:03 +1300 Subject: Re: January From: RMansfield@aj.co.nz To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000336E0CC25684E_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting? The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd. Should we defer the meeting for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on holiday? Cheers, Martin ...And those of us lucky enough to be working ... How about the 9th? Rosemary --=_alternative 000336E0CC25684E_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting?
The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd.  Should we defer the meeting
for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on
holiday?
Cheers,
           Martin
...And those of us lucky enough to be working ...

How about the 9th?

Rosemary --=_alternative 000336E0CC25684E_=-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 15:42:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA24623; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:38:40 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210238.PAA24623@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA24619 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:38:30 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id PAA09455 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:29:56 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:28:37 +1300 Subject: RE: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Jim, #1 TRY LESS OBSCENE ABUSE, AND MORE CLEAR RESPONSES TO LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS. #2, > What you are saying is 'Why couldn't I have done x?' or 'Why wasn't > answering this question (which is obvious to me)?' > Well, frankly, the only opinion about this that I have is that you are > making a career out of attacking an idea that is not your own. Could you confirm that there was no obvious influx or refugees into Seagate; that no PC noticed anything of significance prior to the guild meeting; that the guild was not a scene of panic. If there is some back-dating [which i would strongly advise against], make it clear ASAP what has happened so that the *players* can respond. It is a game mechanic that the GM must tell the players what their characters can perceive is obviously happening. Frankly I prefer games that have consequences & external events. And I quite agree that [for example] a GM absolutely can say to a player "Actually you were *not* in Novadom, at the time." It is an essential mechanism on the level of telling a player that their character is not suitable for a game -- crucial for the game to be viable, let alone enjoyable However, once certain events have taken place it is necessary for the GM[s] concerned to enable affected characters to respond. regards, Michael -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 15:57:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id PAA24689; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:46:27 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210246.PAA24689@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id PAA24685 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:46:23 +1300 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id PAA10668 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:37:51 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 15:36:32 +1300 Subject: RE: January From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting? > > The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd. Should we defer the meeting > for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on > holiday? Would those who want a DQ meeting on 2/1/00 and who WILL be there please indicate this ASAP. If there is insufficient response, I'll assume that people won't be turning up at my place on 2/1/00. Since I, like may university staff, am not allowed on premises (let alone touching y email) between Thursday afternoon 23/12/99 & Wed Morning 5/1/00, please have Keith or someone phone me at home if you *do* decide to hold a meeting at my place on 2/1/00. Otherwise I'll assume the DQ meeting will be Sun 9/1/00. regards, Michael -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 16:42:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA25059; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:39:46 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210339.QAA25059@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from qedweb.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.140] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA25050 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:39:33 +1300 Received: by QEDWEB with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:29:13 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:29:12 +1300 Subject: RE: January From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz It's probably simplest just to make it the 9th. If you speak to any GMs that aren't on the Email group, please let them know. I'll send out an Agenda on the wednesday or thursday before that, so if you have any agenda items please post them to dq-announce before then. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Parkinson [SMTP:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 3:37 PM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: January > > > What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting? > > > > The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd. Should we defer the meeting > > for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on > > holiday? > > Would those who want a DQ meeting on 2/1/00 and who WILL be there please > indicate this ASAP. > If there is insufficient response, I'll assume that people won't be > turning > up at my place on 2/1/00. > > Since I, like may university staff, am not allowed on premises (let alone > touching y email) between Thursday afternoon 23/12/99 & Wed Morning > 5/1/00, > please have Keith or someone phone me at home if you *do* decide to hold a > meeting at my place on 2/1/00. > > Otherwise I'll assume the DQ meeting will be Sun 9/1/00. > > regards, Michael > > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 16:57:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id QAA25207; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:54:24 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210354.QAA25207@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz (kcbbs.gen.nz [202.14.102.1]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id QAA25203 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:54:20 +1300 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA00593 for dq@dq.sf.org.nz; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:39:14 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:36:37 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: Mike Young To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz --------------A5EDAF1E52BA4336CB55FB1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dworkin wrote: > To all and sundry concerning the Dark Circle which I think is a neat idea. > > [rant mode on] > A few points. It takes a lot of work to prepare these games, work out > consequences and in all make them the fun things we all expect.We do not get > paid for this in anyway except in criticism when we somehow slip from our > typical godlike standard. > I imagine the Dark Circle is going to be arround for a while and people > willing to do rescue missions should ask a GM (nicely) to run one next > quarter. No GM has to run anything if they don't want to. Such complaining > whenever a GM does something bold, new and interesting will result in more and > more GMs deciding that GURPs (or ADD, etc) isn't so bad after all due to the > lack of near constant whining. Above all, if you think a game concerning such > and such should be run then WHY DONT YOU DO IT! William (wondering how much he > should charge and if he'll get back pay) Thank you William, To the gasbaggers out there. You know who you are. Forgive me for being mortal, but some of us have a life and sometimes it gets in the way of DQ. So if you really want to know something then I suggest you pick up the phone, beat yourself severly around the head with it, and when the stars stop spinning you give me a call. Regards, Michael --------------A5EDAF1E52BA4336CB55FB1C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dworkin wrote:
To all and sundry concerning the Dark Circle which I think is a neat idea.

[rant mode on]
    A few points. It takes a lot of work to prepare these games, work out consequences and in all make them the fun things we all expect.We do not get paid for this in anyway except in criticism when we somehow slip from our typical godlike standard.
I imagine the Dark Circle is going to be arround for a while  and people willing to do rescue missions should ask a GM (nicely) to run one next quarter. No GM has to run anything if they don't want to. Such complaining whenever a GM does something bold, new and interesting will result in more and more GMs deciding that GURPs (or ADD, etc) isn't so bad after all due to the lack of near constant whining. Above all, if you think a game concerning such and such should be run then WHY DONT YOU DO IT! William (wondering how much he should charge and if he'll get back pay)

Thank you William,

To the gasbaggers out there. You know who you are.

Forgive me for being mortal, but some of us have a life and sometimes it gets in the way of DQ. So if you really want to know something then I suggest you pick up the phone, beat yourself severly around the head with it, and when the stars stop spinning you give me a call.
 

Regards,
    Michael --------------A5EDAF1E52BA4336CB55FB1C-- -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 17:12:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA25277; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:00:32 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210400.RAA25277@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA25272 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:00:28 +1300 Received: from paul (p16-max14.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.227.208]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA21327 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:51:55 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:54:12 +1300 Subject: Re: January From: "Paul Schmidt" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz The 9th would be better.... Cheers Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Parkinson" To: Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 1999 03:36 Subject: RE: January > > What is the preferred date for the January GM's meeting? > > > > The first Sunday in the month is the 2nd. Should we defer the meeting > > for a week to avoid missing the lucky bu^H^H folk who are going away on > > holiday? > > Would those who want a DQ meeting on 2/1/00 and who WILL be there please > indicate this ASAP. > If there is insufficient response, I'll assume that people won't be turning > up at my place on 2/1/00. > > Since I, like may university staff, am not allowed on premises (let alone > touching y email) between Thursday afternoon 23/12/99 & Wed Morning 5/1/00, > please have Keith or someone phone me at home if you *do* decide to hold a > meeting at my place on 2/1/00. > > Otherwise I'll assume the DQ meeting will be Sun 9/1/00. > > regards, Michael > > > > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 17:27:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA25431; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:19:00 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210419.RAA25431@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA25425 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:18:55 +1300 Received: from phaeton (p116-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.203.116]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA26005 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:10:20 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:45:05 +1300 Subject: RE: January From: Keith Smith To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >It's probably simplest just to make it the 9th. >If you speak to any GMs that aren't on the Email group, please let them >know. I think so too. I suspect, on the 2nd, there are going to be quite a lot of people recovering from the various parties and events. And, besides, if there are any Y2K glitches then they should be resolved or being well on the way of being so by then. Keith (phaeton@ihug.co.nz) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 17:42:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id RAA25526; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:34:51 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210434.RAA25526@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id RAA25522 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:34:48 +1300 Received: from phaeton (p116-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.203.116]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA30156 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:26:13 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:00:47 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: Keith Smith To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >To all and sundry concerning the Dark Circle which I think is a neat idea. Yep. It sort of reminds me of the German tactic of Blitzkrieg (and I don't mean the character) and how the Allies had to basically get themselves organised to do something about it. >[rant mode on] > A few points. >It takes a lot of work to prepare these games, work out consequences and in >all make them the fun things we all expect. Agreed. And it's harder in a multi-GM campaign to make sure that all the GMs are co-ordinated to make such a global event work. >We do not get paid for this in anyway except in criticism when we somehow >slip from our typical godlike standard. We do it for fun, and for the enjoyment of the players (IMHO). >I imagine the Dark Circle is going to be arround for a while and people >willing to do rescue missions should ask a GM (nicely) to run one next >quarter. >No GM has to run anything if they don't want to. Such complaining whenever a >GM does something bold, new and interesting will result in more and more GMs >deciding that GURPs (or ADD, etc) isn't so bad after all due to the lack of >near constant whining. >Above all, if you think a game concerning such and such should be run then >WHY DONT YOU DO IT! And more GMs would be welcome. Sometimes it takes courage to run a game and kudos go to those that do so. I've had several enjoyable games in the past and hope to have more in the future. My thanks to all the GMs who put the time and effort into their games. It's very appreciated. >William (wondering how much he should charge and if he'll get back pay) Kharma points probably :-) Keith (phaeton@ihug.co.nz) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 18:12:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA25723; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:00:45 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210500.SAA25723@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA25719 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:00:36 +1300 Received: from phaeton (p116-tnt7.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.203.116]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA01471 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:52:01 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:26:12 +1300 Subject: Dark Circle Responses From: Keith Smith To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz First off I just have this to say. COOL IT! Please! There's a growing potential for another flame war in the lists to start and I for one don't want to see that happen. It was bad enough last time. If you must have a go at someone, please take it to private mail. OK. This Dark Circle thing. It seems to me that what we have is a rather large threat coming at the Guild like a runaway jugganaut. It's only natural that characters, once they woke up to the realisation of what was happening to want to do something about it, even if they aren't in a game at the time. (Note: these are just my opinions. I could be completely wrong about the situation and could one of the GMs please clarify) Maybe we've just become aware of the threat. After all it didn't take Hitler long to bulldoze his way over Poland and into France and I bet there was a scramble to get everything organised for a defense then. Here's a suggestion. If players want to co-ordinate a defense, could we do this on the mailing list with a GM co-ordinating things. We could either use dq-pub or set up a new list. The new upgrades to the server software also allow moderated lists if we want to go that way. Unfortunately it may not be possible to set up a new list until the New Year as the sysop is away. Heck, if no-one else wants to co-ordinate then I'll do it. Just enough to provide an in-game outlet for those wanting to say, can we do such and such. Keith (phaeton@ihug.co.nz) -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 18:13:13 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA25741; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:02:06 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210502.SAA25741@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from defacto.peace.co.nz (root@defacto.peace.co.nz [202.14.141.225]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA25737 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:02:02 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 17:53:28 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mike Young wrote: > To the gasbaggers out there. You know who you are. > > Forgive me for being mortal, but some of us have a life and sometimes it gets in > the way of DQ. So if you really want to know something then I suggest you pick > up the phone, beat yourself severly around the head with it, and when the stars > stop spinning you give me a call. > > Regards, > Michael Translation: "To the people who have had concerns with the way the dark circle campaign event has been run. I'm sorry that due to real world commitments, I have been unable to offer support for the dark circle since the guild meeting. I now have the time, please phone me with any questions." OK, questions. I ask about the village of Charity, as this is my primary concern, but I expect others would like similar answers for the rest of Brastor. In particular, the answers could determine whether there was a hoard of refugee orcs from Kelsie's character's city in Seagate at the time of the guild meeting (apparently invisible to the newpaper reporters.) (On the Frontiers of Allusia map, there is a mountain-and-forest high mana zone to the north of Brastor. Just south of the forrest are a couple of towns - Charity is the eastern town.) (1) When did news reach Charity that the invasion was a possibility? (2) When did it become apparent that the invasion was likely to reach Charity? Bear in mind that Anathea is there, who can fly unseen either to scout towards the invasion or to get news from the Guild or the Brastor military. (3) At the time that the invasion of Charity first looked likely, how much time did people believe there was to evacuate in? (4) (This answer should perhaps go to Mandos rather than me, as he has offered to GM the evacuation of Charity.) When did the invasion actually reach Charity? Michael W. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 19:27:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA26193; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:25:10 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210625.TAA26193@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA26182 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:25:03 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p70-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.70]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA11076 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:16:27 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:14:15 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Michael Parkinson wrote: >Jim, > >#1 TRY LESS OBSCENE ABUSE, AND MORE CLEAR RESPONSES TO LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS. > They aren't legitimate questions. They are whining. If the player's character has an interest, then seek the answers in the game that character is playing in. If that character isn't playing, and you seriously want to find out about what's going on, because that's what you think your character would do, then get on the phone and organise a game for that character. Instead, players, as opposed to their characters, are seeking answers to questions that are only really legitimately answered within games. It is entirely inappropriate for players to be asking these questions on this list. And, particularly in that hectoring tone. Questions like 'Why didn't Nancy, the undead slaying orc from Quincy Street get involved in this affair?' are completely meaningless. Either Nancy is in a game that is a part of the Dark Circle adventure, or she isn't. You rationalise backwards from the events your character is a part of. If the Dark Circle is the only thing you think your character would be involved in, then, you're either on adventure you think will lead in that direction, or you are doing some nameless support activity wherever it doesn't need to be administered by a DM. That's all. > >#2, > >> What you are saying is 'Why couldn't I have done x?' or 'Why wasn't >> answering this question (which is obvious to me)?' >> Well, frankly, the only opinion about this that I have is that you are >> making a career out of attacking an idea that is not your own. > >Could you confirm that there was no obvious influx or refugees into Seagate; >that no PC noticed anything of significance prior to the guild meeting; that >the guild was not a scene of panic. If there is some back-dating [which i >would strongly advise against], make it clear ASAP what has happened so that >the *players* can respond. It is a game mechanic that the GM must tell the >players what their characters can perceive is obviously happening. Well, if you haven't been told, then presumably the refugees, if there are any, are just around the hill, somewhere, and, as far as the Guild is concerned, there is no sudden increase in road traffic. An intelligent character might induce that that was the likely course of events following something like the Dark Circle. Clearly, matters have not proceeded to that point as yet, either because it takes some time, or there is some other agency at work. > >Frankly I prefer games that have consequences & external events. And I >quite agree that [for example] a GM absolutely can say to a player >"Actually you were *not* in Novadom, at the time." It is an essential >mechanism on the level of telling a player that their character is not >suitable for a game -- crucial for the game to be viable, let alone >enjoyable However, once certain events have taken place it is necessary for >the GM[s] concerned to enable affected characters to respond. A character is only as affected as they want to be, particularly if they're not playing. It doesn't matter, really, what is happening to characters that are not playing. They rationalise backwards from the events that pertain once the adventures return, and they understand what is happening. If you want your character to be affected by the events, find a DM and have them affect you. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 19:42:37 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA26278; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:38:02 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210638.TAA26278@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA26274 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:37:58 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p70-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.70]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA13197 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:29:20 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:27:10 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Michael Woodhams To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Tuesday, 21 December 1999 18:06 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting >Mike Young wrote: > >> To the gasbaggers out there. You know who you are. >> >> Forgive me for being mortal, but some of us have a life and sometimes it gets in >> the way of DQ. So if you really want to know something then I suggest you pick >> up the phone, beat yourself severly around the head with it, and when the stars >> stop spinning you give me a call. >> >> Regards, >> Michael > >Translation: > >"To the people who have had concerns with the way the dark circle campaign event >has been run. > >I'm sorry that due to real world commitments, I have been unable to offer support >for the dark circle since the guild meeting. I now have the time, please phone me >with any questions." No. I think your translation is flawed. I think what Mike wrote was EXACTLY what he meant to say. > >(2) When did it become apparent that the invasion was likely to reach Charity? Bear >in mind that Anathea is there, who can fly unseen either to scout towards the >invasion or to get news from the Guild or the Brastor military. Presumably she can do this because she puts her emails into a bag, and waits for the lift generated by the hot air to move her upwards. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Tue Dec 21 19:42:55 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA26237; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:32:02 +1300 Message-Id: <199912210632.TAA26237@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (tk1.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.13]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA26233 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:31:59 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p70-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [216.100.154.70]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id TAA11940 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:23:13 +1300 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 19:21:02 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz George Mitchinson wrote: > >As opposed to attacking people that don't think like you do? They don't think at all. > >The fact is most people on here are keen to get involved in this event, >unlike some people however most ae polite enough to try to gain information >so that their contributions will work with other people rather than treading >on toes. Any group event like this needs some information disseminated so >people can work within the story that other have worked to create. Then find DMs that can run them in a game that has something to do with it. That's the point. It's a game device. So, get devious, find a game. Don't bother complaining that you don't understand everything that's going on. If you could understand it from outside of a game, then it wouldn't be a game device, it'd be solved by people like the Duke or the Archbishop of Mordeaux. Clearly, at least half of the difficulty is that information is hard to come by. And as for the rest, i.e. disseminating information so that other people can contribute, that's drivel. They don't want information so they can contribute. This isn't the venue to be acquiring that kind of thing. It is, pure and simple, hectoring, and negative criticality. I may indulge in fantasy roleplaying. I don't indulge in fantasy as it pertains to the real world. > >This is called manners. Not laziness. If people were lazy then they would >not even bother asking the questions but would just ignore the event and go >on as usual. These people are making the effort to get involved and the >level of detail that people are asking for is not unreasonable. Yes, it is lazy. And cowardly. Asking a question on a list is incredibly safe. Making your way into the very bowels of the Dark Circle and trying to find out precisely what is going on is NOT safe, it is NOT lazy, it IS engaging the game that is offered. Jim -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --