From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Dec 23 18:43:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA08860; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:42:08 +1300 Message-Id: <199912230542.SAA08860@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA08856 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:42:04 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p306-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.136.66]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA14281 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:32:22 +1300 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:30:02 +1300 Subject: Re: Black Circle: Raising Some Defenses From: "Jim Arona" To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: Jacqui Smith To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Wednesday, 22 December 1999 08:54 Subject: Re: Black Circle: Raising Some Defenses >>First a general query about timing: >>When (game date) did the black circle expand? >>When would characters at the guild have become aware of it? >>When would refugees have started flooding out of Brastor? > >Jono and/or MTB should have answers to those questions. Then you might think about talking to them about it. Perhaps this information is something that players can easily get the hands on, maybe it's not. How much of the whole thing is rumour, how much is fact? Whatever else it is, you may not demand the answers. You don't have that right. Jim. -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Dec 23 18:43:53 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA08829; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:39:44 +1300 Message-Id: <199912230539.SAA08829@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA08825 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:39:30 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p306-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.136.66]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA14100 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:29:47 +1300 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:27:27 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Jacqui Smith wrote: > >You obviously missed the brackets, Jim. It was an aside. A comment only >intended to indicate how I personally had prepared for the anticipated Dark >Circle adventures. Which did not appear to eventuate. > >>You can rank your character anyway you like, >>and it's always going to be an open question as to what abilities are going >>to be useful on your next adventure. This season, the players got more >>warning than on previous ones, if your post is anything to go by. If you >>take advantage of the information on that basis, all well and good. If it >>pans out, fine, you reap such rewards that attentiveness to the game world >>offers. If it doesn't pan out, that's just tough. You take that risk. There >>is no sure thing. > >*Some* players got more warning. Most did not. Still, irrelevant. This season, there was some warning. Most seasons, there is none at all. > >Quite so, Jim, but none of this answers my question. >Which was, what happened to all the expected Dark Circle adventures? > >Was the problem that game masters themselves had insufficient warning? >I am aware that the matter was discussed at the gods meeting before the >Guild meeting, but one week would be far too little lead time for me to >prepare an adventure, and I suspect for most other GMs. These things take >time if they are to be done properly. I don't believe it was ever the case that DMs were required to run games in the Dark Circle envirionment. After all, it was launched two weeks before the guild meeting. Some DMs require more time to put together a campaign. That's fine. The idea was to introduce the concept as a possible game environment. Some DMs might have, and indeed, seem to have, taken it up and run with it, and more power to them. Others need more time to digest such weighty matters, and that's fine, too. If they care to run a game about the Dark Circle, or if the decline to, all that has happened is that the game world has become a little more varied. But, whatever else the Dark Circle is, it isn't an opportunity to demand a Dark Circle game. Neither is it an instruction for DMs to run that particular sort of game. All that this is about is providing DMs with a game device that they might like to use. Until you and whomever else is actually paying the people who are prepared to provide this kind of thankless task, then I suggest you just get on with whatever game you are playing in, and leave it at that. Jim -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Dec 23 18:58:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id SAA08971; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:56:54 +1300 Message-Id: <199912230556.SAA08971@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id SAA08967 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:56:51 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p306-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.136.66]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA15286 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:47:08 +1300 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:44:48 +1300 Subject: Re: Dark Circle stuff From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Bingo Jim -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Withy (FAL AKL) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Wednesday, 22 December 1999 09:51 Subject: Dark Circle stuff >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4BF4.BC4036C0 >Content-Type: text/plain > >It seems most people are missing the point(s) Jim is making. > >He has explained the interactive approach the Dark Circle GMs are taking. >He is saying that the stuff you are talking about will only make a >difference if run in a DQ game by a real GM. That GM will then feed back to >the rest of the GMs involved in the story, and events will be affected. The >other GMs closely involved with this (Michael Young, Jono) appear to support >Jim's position, at least tacitly. > >This is thus how the event is going to be run. FULLSTOP. END OF DISCUSSION. > > >Saying on the list what your characters would want to do makes no difference >to the situation. Find or BE a GM, and do something, preferably after the GM >has talked to Michael Young. This is how you will make a difference. > >If you can't/don't want to roleplay your character in a game, then it will >not make a difference to this event. This is how they are running this >event, whether you think they should or not. Saying otherwise ("whining") >will not influence them positively. I'm not saying its right or wrong, it >just is. > >Disclaimer: Note the "you" and "them" - I am not involved. My characters are >not on Dark Circle games - either training or adventuring off-plane - and >thus are doing nothing effective to stop the Dark Circle >_no_matter_how_much_I_want_them_to_. Neither am I GMing, nor do I know >anything about the Dark Circle except via the SGT & Myrror. > >Jim, if I'm wrong, I look forward to a correction. > >Andrew > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4BF4.BC4036C0 >Content-Type: text/html >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > >charset=3Dus-ascii"> >5.5.2448.0"> >Dark Circle stuff > > > >

It seems most people are missing the = >point(s) Jim is making. >

> >

He has explained the interactive = >approach the Dark Circle GMs are taking. >
He is saying that the stuff you are = >talking about will only make a difference if run in a DQ game by a real = >GM. That GM will then feed back to the rest of the GMs involved in the = >story, and events will be affected. The other GMs closely involved with = >this (Michael Young, Jono) appear to support Jim's position, at least = >tacitly.

> >

This is thus how the event is going to = >be run. FULLSTOP. END OF DISCUSSION. <please> >

> >

Saying on the list what your = >characters would want to do makes no difference to the situation. Find = >or BE a GM, and do something, preferably after the GM has talked to = >Michael Young. This is how you will make a difference.

> >

If you can't/don't want to roleplay = >your character in a game, then it will not make a difference to this = >event. This is how they are running this event, whether you think they = >should or not. Saying otherwise ("whining") will not = >influence them positively. I'm not saying its right or wrong, it just = >is.

> >

Disclaimer: Note the "you" = >and "them" - I am not involved. My characters are not on Dark = >Circle games - either training or adventuring off-plane - and thus are = >doing nothing effective to stop the Dark Circle = >_no_matter_how_much_I_want_them_to_. Neither am I GMing, nor do I know = >anything about the Dark Circle except via the SGT & = >Myrror.

> >

Jim, if I'm wrong, I look forward to a = >correction. >

> >

Andrew >

> > > >------_=_NextPart_001_01BF4BF4.BC4036C0-- > > >-- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- > -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Thu Dec 23 19:13:41 1999 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) id TAA09042; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:09:42 +1300 Message-Id: <199912230609.TAA09042@mail.sf.org.nz> Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz (tk2.ihug.co.nz [203.29.160.14]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-19980830) with ESMTP id TAA09038 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:09:39 +1300 Received: from jimarona.ihug.co.nz (p306-tnt6.akl.ihug.co.nz [203.109.136.66]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA16089 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:59:56 +1300 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:57:34 +1300 Subject: Re: Minutes from the Guild Meeting From: "Jim Arona" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Brent Jackson wrote: >>If the player's character has an interest, then seek the answers in >>the game that character is playing in. If that character isn't >>playing, and you seriously want to find out about what's going on, >>because that's what you think your character would do, then get on >>the phone and organise a game for that character. > >This is quite impratical. Not everyone can play every character. > >For example, I have 5 characters. One is involved in a carry-over >adventure so is still 6 days after the last Guild Meeting. My role-playing >time is therefore already committed. I am unable to commit more time, >other than about half an hour or so, some nights a week between 11 pm and >midnight. That's fine. Clearly, you have a life outside of roleplaying. So, you don't have the time to roleplay, you are busy in other areas of your life, or you've just simply had enough. Big deal. The fact is, you don't get to make an impact on the game world, because to do so it would have to be administered by a DM. However much you care to make such an impact, it MUST be administered by a DM. There is no alternative here. You can say that your character will do x activity if you like. It will have no value at all, until a DM accepts it as a valid interaction with the world. This isn't even arguable. > >> Instead, players, as opposed to their characters, are seeking >>answers to questions that are only really legitimately answered >>within games. > >The question that seem to be most often asked is "When did Seagate or the >Adventurer's Guild (ie player characters) first hear about the events at >Braster ?". > >>It is entirely inappropriate for players to be asking these >>questions on this list. > >I disagree. Where else could this subject have been brought up. Players >were not told of the event at the meeting. Players wish to know what their >characters would have been likely to have known at the Guild Meeting, so >they can act accordingly. It is not too much to ask (IMHO :). I have heard your opinion many times, Brent. It wears humility, in the same way that wolves wear sheep's clothing. Yes, it is too much to ask. The questions haven't been directed to people who can answer them, so they're just whinging. On top of anything else, these questions may not be answered on the list, because answering them may have an effect on another DMs game. But, in reality, the real reason this attitude is importunate is because it demands of people who also have a life outside of roleplaying that they provide provide them with some 'character relief'. Well, frankly, if you were paying them, you might have a point. As it happens, Mike was flat on his back for three days with the thing that laid me low for three days. Yet, you guys just expect the poor bugger to crawl out of bed and answer questions that really ought to be answered inside of games. This attitude disgusts me. >> Questions like 'Why didn't Nancy, the undead slaying orc from >>Quincy Street get involved in this affair?' are completely >>meaningless. Either Nancy is in a game that is a part of the Dark >>Circle adventure, or she isn't. You rationalise backwards from the >>events your character is a part of. If the Dark Circle is the only >>thing you think your character would be involved in, then, you're >>either on adventure you think will lead in that direction, or you >>are doing some nameless support activity wherever it >>doesn't need to be administered by a DM. That's all. > >To paraphrase, to ensure that I understand you correctly : >The correct response to world events that may affect your character, are >limited to : going out on a related adventure, or "doing some nameless >support activity" which will not affect, nor be affected by, the world. > Yes. I wasn't that hard, was it? Jim -- see unsubscribe instructions in message headers --