Being one of the non-mages Andrew has GM'd and played with who has a SC in
the 140-160 range - it's hard work and it requires high skill and magic.

MD 20 = 20%
Max Rank Hand & Half = 60 + (7 * 4) = 88%
Rank 6 Warrior = 6%
Rk 20 Greater = 20%
Magic Weapon +17%

Total = 151%  Doing D+7
And with another 4 or 5 adventures, 30,000 or so xp, and some luck I might
even make 160%.

And yes it is maxed out as much as possible for my abilities and level -
why? because its the only way to feel like you're a better fighter than your
average town guardsman or orc.  Even then the town guard are sometimes very
hard to take down.

As a matter of interest with a normal combat defence of 40% (78% evading)
and wearing plate, I would almost never miss myself but it would be a slow
fight won by the clone who got the most endurance blows.
On the plus side I get to wade through large groups of unarmoured unskilled
opponents.

Also as a fighter who while having a few general skills (sometimes at better
ranks than the mages), is basically best at hitting things, is is
frustrating to finally enter the area of your expertise (a fight) and step
up to do the thing you're best at (hitting things) only to discover that
they are un-hittable for one reason or another.  And since the fighter in
the group can't hit them the fighter-mages probably can't either, so the
combat is won or lost on the groups magical firepower.
Great - my contribution to the party was to make the enemy un-hittable,
therefore the party would have been better off with another pure caster
blast mage.  Apart from the brilliant and entertaining role-playing that I
brought to the group <humble grin>.

Fortunately this has not happened very often, but is is something to keep in
mind.  While many characters are generalists who can turn their abilities to
most situations, it is enjoyable and satisfying for those specialist to be
able to excel and be better than the rest when they are in a situation where
their speciality applies.  Of course the balance to this is to ensure that
once character doesn't get all the fun or get to be the best all of the time
because then the novelty wears off and it becomes the new normal and
expected.  Then they are dissapointed when in a situation where they are a
mere mortal.

Cheers, Stephen.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Dworkin [SMTP:dworkin@ihug.co.nz]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 23 January 2001 23:13
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] DQ: GM Tools / Armies
> 
> 
> 
> balance (or at least be aware of) the party's capabilities. However, as
> most
> fighters I play with or GM have 140-160 strike chance, it is hard to
> introduce a challenge to them without (excessive) magic.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> To your points.
> 
> Explain how a fighter has 140-160 SC without using access to 'excessive'
> magic and skills. Any ways it is not the high attack but high defence
> ratings which are a problem.
> 
> Then explain how to also make the game interesting for a non min-maxed
> fighter. You know, someone who chose not to use a hand+half, have 20+
> MD/AG
> and not be smelling of myrhh all the time. This was one of my major
> objections.
> 
> William
> 


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I agree completely.

Stephen Martin wrote:

> Being one of the non-mages Andrew has GM'd and played with who has a SC in
> the 140-160 range - it's hard work and it requires high skill and magic.
>
> MD 20 = 20%
> Max Rank Hand & Half = 60 + (7 * 4) = 88%
> Rank 6 Warrior = 6%
> Rk 20 Greater = 20%
> Magic Weapon +17%
>
> Total = 151%  Doing D+7
> And with another 4 or 5 adventures, 30,000 or so xp, and some luck I might
> even make 160%.
>
> And yes it is maxed out as much as possible for my abilities and level -
> why? because its the only way to feel like you're a better fighter than your
> average town guardsman or orc.  Even then the town guard are sometimes very
> hard to take down.
>
> As a matter of interest with a normal combat defence of 40% (78% evading)
> and wearing plate, I would almost never miss myself but it would be a slow
> fight won by the clone who got the most endurance blows.
> On the plus side I get to wade through large groups of unarmoured unskilled
> opponents.
>
> Also as a fighter who while having a few general skills (sometimes at better
> ranks than the mages), is basically best at hitting things, is is
> frustrating to finally enter the area of your expertise (a fight) and step
> up to do the thing you're best at (hitting things) only to discover that
> they are un-hittable for one reason or another.  And since the fighter in
> the group can't hit them the fighter-mages probably can't either, so the
> combat is won or lost on the groups magical firepower.
> Great - my contribution to the party was to make the enemy un-hittable,
> therefore the party would have been better off with another pure caster
> blast mage.  Apart from the brilliant and entertaining role-playing that I
> brought to the group <humble grin>.
>
> Fortunately this has not happened very often, but is is something to keep in
> mind.  While many characters are generalists who can turn their abilities to
> most situations, it is enjoyable and satisfying for those specialist to be
> able to excel and be better than the rest when they are in a situation where
> their speciality applies.  Of course the balance to this is to ensure that
> once character doesn't get all the fun or get to be the best all of the time
> because then the novelty wears off and it becomes the new normal and
> expected.  Then they are dissapointed when in a situation where they are a
> mere mortal.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dworkin [SMTP:dworkin@ihug.co.nz]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2001 23:13
> > To:   dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject:      Re: [dq] DQ: GM Tools / Armies
> >
> >
> >
> > balance (or at least be aware of) the party's capabilities. However, as
> > most
> > fighters I play with or GM have 140-160 strike chance, it is hard to
> > introduce a challenge to them without (excessive) magic.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > To your points.
> >
> > Explain how a fighter has 140-160 SC without using access to 'excessive'
> > magic and skills. Any ways it is not the high attack but high defence
> > ratings which are a problem.
> >
> > Then explain how to also make the game interesting for a non min-maxed
> > fighter. You know, someone who chose not to use a hand+half, have 20+
> > MD/AG
> > and not be smelling of myrhh all the time. This was one of my major
> > objections.
> >
> > William
> >
>
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