From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 11:12:01 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) id LAA28803; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:01:44 +1300 Received: from qedweb.qed.co.nz ([203.97.23.140]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id LAA28800 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:01:37 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: mae.sub.net.nz: Host [203.97.23.140] claimed to be qedweb.qed.co.nz Received: by localhost with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1RYHGLH5>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:00:22 +1300 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:00:21 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Classes of target From: Stephen Martin To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Additional to Jim and Andrew's comments... There are some spells in the Binder college which only affect Golems, if it's not a golem then it's not a valid target. Also it explicitly states in the Binder college that Golems are both Objects and Entities for the purposes of being targeted by magic. There are some specific rules about charm, sleep, etc. too but I can't remember exactly what they are. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [SMTP:adara@ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 23 February 2001 21:37 > > D golems (another animate) > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 13:08:48 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) id MAA29152; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:25 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id MAA29149 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:23 +1300 Received: from adara (203-109-201-171.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.201.171]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA09785 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:20 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp1.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-109-201-171.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.201.171] claimed to be adara Message-ID: <002e01c09f83$62f92080$010a0a0a@adara.ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:45:31 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] stacking/queuing query - HEALTH WARNING From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_&_Ellen__Hume=A0&_Adara_Wood?=" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Agree with Clare, apply basic magic rules first, then worry about understanding them. Ian -----Original Message----- From: Clare West To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Sunday, 25 February 2001 19:12 Subject: Re: [dq] stacking/queuing query - HEALTH WARNING On Sunday, February 25, 2001, at 05:18 PM, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote: -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 13:09:33 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) id MAA29174; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:40 +1300 Received: from mx1.datacom.co.nz (mx1.datacom.co.nz [202.27.76.230]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id MAA29171 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:38 +1300 Received: from dslak12.dslak.co.nz (not verified[172.25.10.119]) by mx1.datacom.co.nz with MailMarshal (4,0,6,0) id ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:50 +1300 Received: by dslak12.dnznet.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <15QRQKCC>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:20 +1300 Message-ID: <47E0B9F9F429D311958600508B4AB6E903E0B677@dslak12.dnznet.co.nz> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:12 +1300 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Classes of target From: "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. If we can get technical, then some spells should have "spell" or "magic" as a target - counterspells are the obvious one - for dissipation, countering wards, (phantasm or spectral warrior), sleep, etc. However, we can live without these distinctions. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 February 2001 11:00 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Classes of target Additional to Jim and Andrew's comments... There are some spells in the Binder college which only affect Golems, if it's not a golem then it's not a valid target. Also it explicitly states in the Binder college that Golems are both Objects and Entities for the purposes of being targeted by magic. There are some specific rules about charm, sleep, etc. too but I can't remember exactly what they are. Cheers, Stephen. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [SMTP:adara@ihug.co.nz] > Sent: Friday, 23 February 2001 21:37 > > D golems (another animate) > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 13:09:59 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) id MAA29163; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:29 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id MAA29160 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:27 +1300 Received: from adara (203-109-201-171.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.201.171]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA09789 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:32:24 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp1.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-109-201-171.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.201.171] claimed to be adara Message-ID: <002f01c09f83$655d0120$010a0a0a@adara.ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:14:44 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rules stuff From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_&_Ellen__Hume=A0&_Adara_Wood?=" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. On reading the rules I agree with Kelsie: I do NOT agree to changing the rules on this. I prefer the automatic specific grevious that the Rules currently give the Succubi, over using normal 5% 'spec Grev' rules. Quote (old rules with succubi as part of summoning - v2 c.1985 Page 66) "Succubi may attempt to bite during Close Combat with a Base Chance of 40%. Their bite does +2 damage to fatigue each Pulse. This drain continues so long as they continue to bite (they need not make another Strike chance). The ... They never inflict specific Grevious Injuries, but may do Endurance damage.... Rank of 1 to 10 for the bite...." my interpretation: While in close, a succubi may do a bite attack [40 + MD + 4 times rank + Assassin bonus % strike chance] doing D +2 (plus 1 per four full ranks) damage. This automatically has a special type of Specific Grevious injury, namely a 'bleeder' that continues doing the same amount of damage to fatigue each successive pulse that the succubi continues to bite/leech/suck (without need for repeated strike checks). The first pulse damage may be to endurance on a roll of less than 15% of strike chance (as per normal). Other attacks, claws, envenomed weapons etc, are resolved as per normal, with potential for Spec Grev which receive the Assassin bonus. Opinion Succubi have an auto-spec grev that is rather tasty. Poor GMing should not be a reason for 'dumbing down' the game... Ian -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Sunday, 25 February 2001 17:15 Subject: [dq] Rules stuff >Kelsie pointed out that Succubi can't inflict specific grevious's on other >people according to their description. As this is one of the most common >things that I've seen/felt them do, is there any problem with changing this >? > >Andrew > > > >-- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 14:25:12 2001 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) id NAA29566; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:55:27 +1300 Received: from mx1.datacom.co.nz (mx1.datacom.co.nz [202.27.76.230]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id NAA29559 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:55:25 +1300 Received: from dslak12.dslak.co.nz (not verified[172.25.10.119]) by mx1.datacom.co.nz with MailMarshal (4,0,6,0) id ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:55:26 +1300 Received: by dslak12.dnznet.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <15QRQLCB>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:55:08 +1300 Message-ID: <47E0B9F9F429D311958600508B4AB6E903E0B678@dslak12.dnznet.co.nz> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:55:04 +1300 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rules stuff From: "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Thanks Ian, that makes a lot more sense that when I first scanned the rules. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [mailto:adara@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 26 February 2001 10:15 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Rules stuff On reading the rules I agree with Kelsie: I do NOT agree to changing the rules on this. I prefer the automatic specific grevious that the Rules currently give the Succubi, over using normal 5% 'spec Grev' rules. Quote (old rules with succubi as part of summoning - v2 c.1985 Page 66) "Succubi may attempt to bite during Close Combat with a Base Chance of 40%. Their bite does +2 damage to fatigue each Pulse. This drain continues so long as they continue to bite (they need not make another Strike chance). The ... They never inflict specific Grevious Injuries, but may do Endurance damage.... Rank of 1 to 10 for the bite...." my interpretation: While in close, a succubi may do a bite attack [40 + MD + 4 times rank + Assassin bonus % strike chance] doing D +2 (plus 1 per four full ranks) damage. This automatically has a special type of Specific Grevious injury, namely a 'bleeder' that continues doing the same amount of damage to fatigue each successive pulse that the succubi continues to bite/leech/suck (without need for repeated strike checks). The first pulse damage may be to endurance on a roll of less than 15% of strike chance (as per normal). Other attacks, claws, envenomed weapons etc, are resolved as per normal, with potential for Spec Grev which receive the Assassin bonus. Opinion Succubi have an auto-spec grev that is rather tasty. Poor GMing should not be a reason for 'dumbing down' the game... Ian -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Date: Sunday, 25 February 2001 17:15 Subject: [dq] Rules stuff >Kelsie pointed out that Succubi can't inflict specific grevious's on other >people according to their description. As this is one of the most common >things that I've seen/felt them do, is there any problem with changing this >? > >Andrew > > > >-- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Mon Feb 26 20:28:11 2001 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id UAA00426; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:09 +1300 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz (smtp1.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.7]) by smtp.sig.net.nz (8.9.3/NZSFI-20000705) with ESMTP id UAA00414 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:08 +1300 Received: from adara (203-109-205-163.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.205.163]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA29140 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:04 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp1.ihug.co.nz: Host 203-109-205-163.nzl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.205.163] claimed to be adara Message-ID: <007f01c09fc5$d79c6ae0$010a0a0a@adara.ihug.co.nz> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:28:50 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Light and Dark Aspect From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ian__Wood_&_Ellen__Hume=A0&_Adara_Wood?=" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. While we are looking at various minor fixes to the Rulebook, thought I would suggest that at least the basics of 'Light and Dark Aspect' should be included in the Celestial College write-up. I would also like to propose a minor change to how this is currently written. Any comments on the below gratefully received. Currently the only mention in the rulebook outside of statements in Celestial talent, spell and ritual descriptions restricting their effect is a single sentence in the college intro: 'Most entities are aligned with either Light or Dark, and Celestial Magics will often only affect entities of the opposed aspect.' I have included the main part of the "Light and Dark Aspect" section of the GM's Guide below. As it is the primary responsibility of the player to understand how their college works (at least in 'normal' circumstances), it would seem appropriate to include the hard-and-fast rules from the extract below in the college. A new section after the lighting modifiers table (at the end) would seem easiest, with a reference to it in the intro. As a bonus, there is 3/4 of a page blank on the final page, so no repagination is required. A case could (and has) been put to include this info as part of character generation, as it a property that all characters have. I counter this with the following points: - While it would be nice if all PCs kept a note of their Light/Dark aspect on their character sheets, realistically it won't happen, and you can work it out by asking three questions. I always check the PC's aspects at the start of an adventure, as a firefight is a bad time find out that you made a wrong assumption. For instance, shapechangers trying to hide their nature need to be watched for. - Almost all creatures have this property, not just PC races. Things that don't have this property should be noted, along with 'interesting' stuff like undead. As there is no bestiary in the rulebook, stuff about non-PC races would need to be in character gen. - Only Celestials (and possibly GMs using Celestials) care about this, why clutter up the rest of the rulebook. I will gladly draft the few paragraphs needed, assuming I'm not told to shut up and go away. Mind you if that's what you think, you probably didn't get this far. If anyone thinks that it is worth the effort the stuff in the GM's guide could be better written. I will have a go if there is a general clamour (I'm safe then ). I propose one change to the substance of the extract below: After "Should a character or NPC fall into one or more of the following categories, they are considered Light aspected." add (on new line) "Those with Solar aspects". This only impacts less than 5% of PC races, and is consistent with the treatment of Lunars as dark aligned. It is also what I previously understood the situation to be, and I was a little surprised when I saw it for the first time today in the GM's guide. Extract from GM Guide: 6 Light and Dark Aspect The College of Celestial Magics is an elemental College. They are involved in the study and manip-ulation of the fifth and sixth Elements : Light; and Darkness (there is a philosophical disagreement as to whether Darkness is in fact a true element, or is just the absence of Elemental Light; but that argu-ment is outside the scope of is discussion). This Elemental connection understood, it is very easy to see that the so-called “Dark and Light alignment” is no more than a form of elemental as-pect, in much the same way that someone might have the aspect “Autumn Air” or “Summer Fire”. To avoid the confusion that arises from the use of the term “alignment” (definition: place in relation of agreement or alliance with others), the word as-pect (in it’s astrological sense) should be used. There is no direct connection between the posses-sion of a Light or Dark aspect and the self-styled “Powers of Light and Darkness”. Persons of Light aspect are not necessarily “good” nor persons of Dark aspect “evil”. The aspect refers only to the persons position with regard to the Elements of Light and Dark. It is possible that uneducated plebs may confuse darkness and evil, as night time may be associated with strange doings and the un-known. Crepuscular (i.e., of twilight; appearing or active in twilight) should be considered Dark aspected in the same way as Celestial Shadow Weavers. Should a character or NPC fall into one or more of the following categories, they are considered Dark aspected. Nocturnal or Crepuscular creatures Those with Lunar aspects (including Shapechangers) The following Adepts: – Celestial Dark Mages – Celestial Shadow Weavers Should a character or NPC fall into one or more of the following categories, they are considered Light aspected. Celestial Star Mages Celestial Solar Mages The order of precedence among these categories, from lowest to highest is: Creature Aspect College For example, a human (light), who is Lunar as-pected (dark), becomes a Star Mage (light) and are thus light aspected. Should they lose their college, they would become dark aspected again. Regards Errol -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html --