----- Original Message -----
Subject: [dq] Evil namer stuff possible


> Sealing (R 5)
> If a party is off plane and in an inn for the night
> and this is cast will they immediately wake and have
> to flee the inn and vicinity, possibly leaving goods
> behind at full tmr, no defense, giving rear attacks to
> the waiting assasins etc.....

Under the current write up it will have no effect what so ever. Unless the
party leaves the inn during the duration and then try and return. Nothing in
the current write up supports it having any effect on beings already within
the area. It effects those who have broken or attempt to break the magic
circle. This may or maynot be its intention, but thats what he wrote.


So I am afraid you will just have to continue to burn the inn down to get
those pesky adventureres to leave. But dont worry, they will get the blaim
because everybody knows that adventureres burn down inns. Must be in their
contracts or something.


I would rule that it would take something to inscribe the symbols with, so
materials would be chalk, ink or other miscellaneous inscribing stuff.
Materials: None, is clearly an error.


Regards,
Michael Young

Sealing (R 5)
Range: 20 feet (+20/Rank)
Duration: 1 day (+1/Rank)
Experience Multiple: 300
Base Chance: 20% (+4/Rank)
Cast Time: 1 hour
Resist: May not be resisted.
Target: Area
Materials: None.
Actions: Chanting and inscribing symbols
Concentration Check: Standard
Effects: This Ritual seals an area against entities from a single, specific,
named plane. The name of the plane must be known to the Adept, and the name
of the plane that the Adept is currently occupying cannot be used. No entity
whose plane of origin has been sealed against can voluntarily enter the
sealed area. They will stop at the boundary and refuse to go any further.
Any entity taken into the area against their will (or without their
knowledge, e.g. unconscious) will attempt to leave the area as quickly as
possible. If an attempt is made to summon an entity from the named plane
into the area the summoning will fail.


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                  Minutes from the Guild Meeting
                          1st Frost '80

1) From the pre-Guild Gods Meeting
a) Move the new Namer College into the rulebook and mark it as probationary.
Passed: (7/3/1)

b) Move the revised Mind College into the rulebook and mark it as probationary
Passed (9/3/0)

c) Add the proposed duration of 20 minutes + 10/rank to Speak with Fire 
Creatures
Passed (9/3/1)

d) Ensure that Cold Iron affects Casting as well as Preparing
Passed (8/3/0)

2) Adventures going out.
a) Drunken - a dwarf. The dwarves, while mining, have managed to strike 
ancient evil and
they don't know which one. Miners have disappeared from the bottom of the 
mine. They
want it found - and eradicated. Medium, Wednesday, Jon, Western Springs.

b) Guardsman Able. Count Conner of Caithe. Wants a party to find out why 
the taxes haven't
been received for the last two years. Taxmen had gone to investigate and 
not returned..
Medium/low, Thursday, Julie.

c) Kevin. His village to the west of Seagate (300 miles west) has been 
attacked by 'devilmen'.
For payment he knew of a shipwreck. Medium, Tuesday, New Lynn, William.

d) Guild Security. A Michaeline Church knight has been possessed and the 
possessor, a
Michaeline Saint known as St Ernest the Pure, wants to employ a party. Six 
months ago a
party had gone to the Convent of Lost Souls in the Western Marches. During 
this, there was
an accident with the party and some demons. Now the everyone in the area 
has turned pagen.
Now the Michaelines want to 'put this right' or inflict a jihad on the 
Guild party.
Medium/high, Tuesdays, Andrew, Avondale.

e) Loxi. She had gone out and helped Timmy to help rescue his sister, 
Nikki. Now there is
some tidying up stuff to do. Something to do with lots of animals. Sally, 
Westmere, Low.

f) Douglas (Warning - apparently he's evil now) A year ago he was involved 
in vanquishing a
vampire and gained a book which was reputed to contain knowledge of new 
Mind College
spells. Now that book is sending him on a treasure hunt. Monday, Low, Clare.

Announcements
a) Both the new Name and Mind Colleges are going into the upcoming rulebook as
probationary. Both can now be playtested.

b) There is enough grain to feed Carzala and Brastor for the winter now 
that Flugelheim has
been put on the map. To stop any profiteering, a fixed price has been put 
on all grain products
at 10% higher than last year.

c) The Dark Circle is stable. It was reported that wars are going on inside 
between Rashak's
minions and the Armies of Light.

                              Awards
1) Stupidest
Lucious - The party found some chests that were magically trapped, warded, 
or cursed. The
condition was that the chests could only be opened by the hand of the 
person who set the
ward While the party were discussing what to do, Lucius, without telling 
them, tried opening
it with telekinesis. The trap went off, summoning a succubus.

Hammer - There were some fossegrim frozen in cubes who were going to be 
automatically
thawed sometime in the future. Fossegrim have a habit of charming people 
and eating them.
Hammer decided to bring all the cubes along with him.

Andarial - For some reason he broke a broom and started poking a rescued 
ally. The ally was
so irritated that he did not give the party the intended reward.

Kylan - The party were investigating the lair of an evil necromancer who 
had a really bad
reputation. There were some books in there that he couldn't resist opening. 
He is now a
necromancer.

Gok - For basically being Gok. He interrogated someone while wearing dark 
wings and a
charismatic aura. He also put a Ring of Darkness around a party member and 
his opponent
blocking the rest of the party from assisting.

Winner - Gok

2) Bravest Adventurer
Brundar - He was trying to get a permanent death curse removed so he lay 
down on an altar
and allowed strange things to be done. He also fought on while knowing he 
had the curse.

Aurora - Skeletons wielding large silver scimitars attacked the party and 
Aurora, even though
she was inexperienced, charged in to do battle.

Thaeuss - They tried to sneak into a gnoll stronghold but had to attack. 
Him and Faith took on
two if them by themselves.

Valery - After the succubus was summoned, Valery raced after it armed with 
only a book. She
found her in a cellar doing a summoning ritual and tried to stop her by 
whacking her with the
book. Fortunately it was the Book of Thoth.

Dura and Anook - for taking on some hellhounds.

Andarial - A door was warded and Andarial decided to set it off. The party 
did have a
resurrection item.

Winner - Valery

3) Smartest Adventurer
Valery - They were in a fight and couldn't see where the Mind Mage was 
because of
obscurement. Valery used her bat familiar, who she always knew what 
direction it was, to get
behind the mage then Valery aimed her arrow in the direction of the bat.

Sven - for persuading a water elemental and persuaded it to be banished, 
thus avoiding
combat.

Faith - Not standing between Valery's glaive and the enemy.

Hagan - who came up with the 'Beast in the Box' plan to hide them from the 
enemy in plain
sight.

Lucius - After fighting some mercenaries, Valery had a broken arm. The 
mercenaries had
changed sides and sone of them gave her a potion that fixed the arm but 
left her dopey.
Lucius used a Waters of Healing to remove that problem.

Anook - The party were dealing to a very paranoid necromancer who had left 
losts of traps.
Anook used an ice construction to mow through them. He later used ice to 
shatter a steel band
that was around the neck of a captive.

Loxi - for solving lots of puzzles.

Thaeuss - After Brundar was freed, Thaeuss used Shaping Earth to break the 
protection circle.

Winner - Anook

4) Best Death
Andarial - for setting off trap and dying in the process.

Winner was Andarial over No vote by a slim margin.

No nominations for Star of Alusia and no entries on the Roll of Honour.

                         Meeting Closed.


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Michael Young wrote:

> Nothing in the current write up supports it having any effect on beings
> already within
> the area. It effects those who have broken or attempt to break the magic
> circle. This may or maynot be its intention, but thats what he wrote.

Hi Mike,

I agree with your analysis of what I wrote -- except that it says sealed "area"
rather than "circle" or ring, which lends ambiguity to whether only the boundary
has the effect or the whole area.  One could argue that by sealing the inn the
adventurers had been taken into the area without their knowledge -- but it is
ambiguous to a reader... although it was more the intent of the writer... at
least at the time of writing.  <sigh>  :)

Equally ambiguous is something like a Rune Portal where one end is inside the
sealed area.  Will the adventurers refuse to go through (i.e. stop at the
boundary), or go through and then leave the area (i.e. taken in without their
knowledge), or go in and suffer no effects until they leave the area and then
try to get back to the portal.

The intent of Rosemary's original Sealing ritual (from which this much weaker
version is derived) is that the area is affected (like a Counterspell area)
rather than a circle of protection and there are nasty consequences (going
catatonic) for entities from the named plane inside the sealed area.  This
weaker version removed the consequences and substituted the requirement that
they leave the area.

Having it affect entities inside the area when it is sealed increases its power
-- and thinking it through does not necessarily make it a better ritual
game-wise.  I'm not certain that being able to use it flush the demon (or
whatever) out of its lair is all that desirable... although being able to seal
its lair to prevent its return if you manage to get it to leave seems
worthwhile.

I tend to think that Mike's interpretation is the better version and suggest
that the ambiguity should be removed in its favour.

> I would rule that it would take something to inscribe the symbols with, so
> materials would be chalk, ink or other miscellaneous inscribing stuff.
> Materials: None, is clearly an error.

Agree, "none" is probably an error given that the actions say you inscribe
symbols.  Depending on the area around the inn (in our example) it might be
possible to simply carve symbols into the ground, but I do like the idea of
chalk, or corn meal, or sand, or blood, or whatever.  The materials component
was IIRC introduced for listing costs associated with the ritual e.g. Greater
Enchanment = Material: 1 ounce of black myrrh (+ 1 / Rank), Material Cost: 500
sp (+ 500 / Rank) so I probably overlooked putting in chalk.

Materials should read: "Symbol making paraphernalia and components. (e.g. paint
& brush, chalk, cornmeal)".

> Sealing (R 5)
> Range: 20 feet (+20/Rank)
> Duration: 1 day (+1/Rank)
> Experience Multiple: 300
> Base Chance: 20% (+4/Rank)
> Cast Time: 1 hour
> Resist: May not be resisted.
> Target: Area
> Materials: None.
> Actions: Chanting and inscribing symbols
> Concentration Check: Standard
> Effects: This Ritual seals an area against entities from a single, specific,
> named plane. The name of the plane must be known to the Adept, and the name of
> the plane that the Adept is currently occupying cannot be used. No entity
> whose plane of origin has been sealed against can voluntarily enter the sealed
> area. They will stop at the boundary and refuse to go any further. Any entity
> taken into the area against their will (or without their knowledge, e.g.
> unconscious) will attempt to leave the area as quickly as possible. If an
> attempt is made to summon an entity from the named plane into the area the
> summoning will fail.

--

 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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Yes, I noticed the Target to be Area about 10 seconds after I posted. Which
makes it rather ambiguous with the Effects. I prefer a circle to an area as
this is a more traditional view of how magic works. If you want to get rid
of something you Banish it or something. Besides the Ritual is called
Sealing with all that that implies. So I'll stick with boundry rather than
area, thanks.

So as for the Rune portal into the area, well I guess they just know they
couldnt use that portal just in the same way they just know they cant cross
the circle.

Another reason for not making it an area to drive something away is to
prevent it being used to rid targets of Demonic Possesssion etc. Clearly
other rituals are required for this.

Regards,
Michael

> Michael Young wrote:
>
> > Nothing in the current write up supports it having any effect on beings
> > already within
> > the area. It effects those who have broken or attempt to break the magic
> > circle. This may or maynot be its intention, but thats what he wrote.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I agree with your analysis of what I wrote -- except that it says sealed
"area"
> rather than "circle" or ring, which lends ambiguity to whether only the
boundary
> has the effect or the whole area.  One could argue that by sealing the inn
the
> adventurers had been taken into the area without their knowledge -- but it
is
> ambiguous to a reader... although it was more the intent of the writer...
at
> least at the time of writing.  <sigh>  :)
>
> Equally ambiguous is something like a Rune Portal where one end is inside
the
> sealed area.  Will the adventurers refuse to go through (i.e. stop at the
> boundary), or go through and then leave the area (i.e. taken in without
their
> knowledge), or go in and suffer no effects until they leave the area and
then
> try to get back to the portal.
>
> The intent of Rosemary's original Sealing ritual (from which this much
weaker
> version is derived) is that the area is affected (like a Counterspell
area)
> rather than a circle of protection and there are nasty consequences (going
> catatonic) for entities from the named plane inside the sealed area.  This
> weaker version removed the consequences and substituted the requirement
that
> they leave the area.
>
> Having it affect entities inside the area when it is sealed increases its
power
> -- and thinking it through does not necessarily make it a better ritual
> game-wise.  I'm not certain that being able to use it flush the demon (or
> whatever) out of its lair is all that desirable... although being able to
seal
> its lair to prevent its return if you manage to get it to leave seems
> worthwhile.
>
> I tend to think that Mike's interpretation is the better version and
suggest
> that the ambiguity should be removed in its favour.
>
> > I would rule that it would take something to inscribe the symbols with,
so
> > materials would be chalk, ink or other miscellaneous inscribing stuff.
> > Materials: None, is clearly an error.
>
> Agree, "none" is probably an error given that the actions say you inscribe
> symbols.  Depending on the area around the inn (in our example) it might
be
> possible to simply carve symbols into the ground, but I do like the idea
of
> chalk, or corn meal, or sand, or blood, or whatever.  The materials
component
> was IIRC introduced for listing costs associated with the ritual e.g.
Greater
> Enchanment = Material: 1 ounce of black myrrh (+ 1 / Rank), Material Cost:
500
> sp (+ 500 / Rank) so I probably overlooked putting in chalk.
>
> Materials should read: "Symbol making paraphernalia and components. (e.g.
paint
> & brush, chalk, cornmeal)".
>
> > Sealing (R 5)
> > Range: 20 feet (+20/Rank)
> > Duration: 1 day (+1/Rank)
> > Experience Multiple: 300
> > Base Chance: 20% (+4/Rank)
> > Cast Time: 1 hour
> > Resist: May not be resisted.
> > Target: Area
> > Materials: None.
> > Actions: Chanting and inscribing symbols
> > Concentration Check: Standard
> > Effects: This Ritual seals an area against entities from a single,
specific,
> > named plane. The name of the plane must be known to the Adept, and the
name of
> > the plane that the Adept is currently occupying cannot be used. No
entity
> > whose plane of origin has been sealed against can voluntarily enter the
sealed
> > area. They will stop at the boundary and refuse to go any further. Any
entity
> > taken into the area against their will (or without their knowledge, e.g.
> > unconscious) will attempt to leave the area as quickly as possible. If
an
> > attempt is made to summon an entity from the named plane into the area
the
> > summoning will fail.


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Michael Young wrote:

> I prefer a circle to an area as this is a more traditional view of how magic
> works.... So I'll stick with boundry rather than
> area, thanks.

Yes, I agree.  Its only a small wording change, but I think its a better game
effect.

> So as for the Rune portal into the area, well I guess they just know they
> couldnt use that portal just in the same way they just know they cant cross
> the circle.

Another option is that the portal won't work for them -- in the same way that an
attempt to summon them into the area would fail.

Cheers,
Martin

--

 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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I like the idea of getting bounced part way through transmission by the
sealing.
i.e. You touch the Rune Portal, dissappear and then reappear in the same
spot.

Not that it's an important enough issue to specify in the spell write-up.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Martin Dickson [SMTP:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> Sent:	Friday, 15 June 2001 16:04
> 
> Michael Young wrote:
> 
> > So as for the Rune portal into the area, well I guess they just know
> they
> > couldnt use that portal just in the same way they just know they cant
> cross
> > the circle.
> 
> Another option is that the portal won't work for them -- in the same way
> that an
> attempt to summon them into the area would fail.
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
> 
>


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