Perhaps, if the player is merely attention-seeking, they can be ignored; if
they do something unhealthy for the game, they are brought back into line.
Ditto a child being willful vs pulling at a jug cord.


On the subject of wandering off, there are a couple of skills/activities
which can require more individual attention than others. I believe assassin
says something about the GM even being advised to run solo sessions for that
character. While that should be few & far between, some things are best done
by a small group, as long as they are done efficiently and in a way
enjoyable to the spectators (who were other players until a minute ago).

Andrew
-----Original Message-----

Interesting quandary....

>It just struck me as being relevant here, that from the parenting guide
>books, they say give positive feedback to good behaivour, and ignore the
>bad behaivour.  The theory is that for the child/player, any attention is
>better than none.  So if the character wanders off, my interpretation is
>that the main group gets lots of gm attention, and the individual gets
>"well basically, nothing really interesting happens and you get back to the
>rest of the group an hour later".
>


conflict resolution and group facilitation requires the moderator to
instantly interupt negative behaviour and return it to the agreed culture -
through a neutral challenge.
The first thing is to define the culture or accepted behaviour right at the
beginning - which Sally went on to list - and return people to it.

so are they children or adults ?

Ian


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On Tuesday, June 19, 2001, at 08:12  AM, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:

> I believe assassin says something about the GM even being advised
> to run solo sessions for that character.

The rule actually says:

"The GM must allow assassins to practice their art as they wish and this 
may result in solo adventures."

And so long as an assassin doesn't think "as they wish" includes not 
being caught and strung up and their ashes scattered to the 4 winds, I 
guess its fine.

clare


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Can Seeming be used on one's own permanent illusions?

Permanacy states "once the illusion has been made possible, no changes are
possible." But one normally can't change Disguise Illusion, for example,
once it's been cast either.  Except with Illusion of Seeming, targeted at
at illusion.  So can the seeming also target the illusion that is permanent?

Regards,
Sally


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But of course.

Early in Illusion it states (or at least to in the previous version) that
all illusion spells treat other illusions as real (objects or entities).

TTFN,
Struan.
(GM illusionist, or is that Illusionist GM, or is that maybe not here)

----- Original Message -----
From: Sally Jackson <salient@kcbbs.gen.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 9:25 AM
Subject: [dq] Illusion question


> Can Seeming be used on one's own permanent illusions?
>
> Permanacy states "once the illusion has been made possible, no changes are
> possible." But one normally can't change Disguise Illusion, for example,
> once it's been cast either.  Except with Illusion of Seeming, targeted at
> at illusion.  So can the seeming also target the illusion that is
permanent?
>
> Regards,
> Sally
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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The intent was that the other illusions treat a permanent illusion as "real"
rather than illusion. Thus you could use the "seeming on an object" effect
if an object, or a normal disguise/metamorph/etc. if an entity.

I don't think you can use a normal seeming on a permanent disguise - as a
character, I've always cast an additional disguise on myself rather than a
seeming.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Sally Jackson [mailto:salient@kcbbs.gen.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 9:26 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Illusion question


Can Seeming be used on one's own permanent illusions?

Permanacy states "once the illusion has been made possible, no changes are
possible." But one normally can't change Disguise Illusion, for example,
once it's been cast either.  Except with Illusion of Seeming, targeted at
at illusion.  So can the seeming also target the illusion that is permanent?

Regards,
Sally


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As I go about producing a little ranking spreadsheet I have been working
with the tables alot.

To my surprise we have weapons on the weapon stats table that do not have a
corresponding entry in the Weapon EP chart.

I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to rank
katana or Torch :-)

The documents I have been using to pull tables from are the 1996 rules and
the most recent players guide. Is it just an anomaly from these
publications, am I missing something obvious or is this something we have
just not picked up in the last 5 years? :-)

Mandos
/s


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> As I go about producing a little ranking spreadsheet I have been working
> with the tables alot.
>
> To my surprise we have weapons on the weapon stats table that do
> not have a
> corresponding entry in the Weapon EP chart.
>
> I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to rank
> katana or Torch :-)
>
> The documents I have been using to pull tables from are the 1996 rules and
> the most recent players guide. Is it just an anomaly from these
> publications, am I missing something obvious or is this something we have
> just not picked up in the last 5 years? :-)

Lasso is also missing :-)

Mandos
/s


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Torch is unrankable, and I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a
1-2H sabre with 2 more MD requirement).


-----Original Message-----
From: Mandos Mitchinson [mailto:mandos@nz.asiaonline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 12:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.


> As I go about producing a little ranking spreadsheet I have been working
> with the tables alot.
>
> To my surprise we have weapons on the weapon stats table that do
> not have a
> corresponding entry in the Weapon EP chart.
>
> I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to rank
> katana or Torch :-)
>
> The documents I have been using to pull tables from are the 1996 rules and
> the most recent players guide. Is it just an anomaly from these
> publications, am I missing something obvious or is this something we have
> just not picked up in the last 5 years? :-)

Lasso is also missing :-)

Mandos
/s


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"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:

>  I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a 1-2H sabre with 2 more MD
> requirement).
>
> From: Mandos Mitchinson
> > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to rank
> > katana...

More of an odd aside than anything:

Does anyone know when and from where those stats for Katana were added?  I ask
because:
a) I didn't realize (hadn't read carefully enough I guess) that Katana was even
available for training (presumably at the Guild), and
b) Those values are quite different from the ones that I have for Katanas dating
back a fair number of years -- which have a lower BC and higher Max rank, and
rank as rapier for EP.

Puzzled,
Martin


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_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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I think Ross found it in some of the rule minutes from the early '90s, and
as katana was in play, it was included. On the other hand, it could have
been a write-up for one player.

Does anyone out there _actually_ use katana for their character?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 1:02 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.


"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:

>  I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a 1-2H sabre with 2 more MD
> requirement).
>
> From: Mandos Mitchinson
> > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to
rank
> > katana...

More of an odd aside than anything:

Does anyone know when and from where those stats for Katana were added?  I
ask
because:
a) I didn't realize (hadn't read carefully enough I guess) that Katana was
even
available for training (presumably at the Guild), and
b) Those values are quite different from the ones that I have for Katanas
dating
back a fair number of years -- which have a lower BC and higher Max rank,
and
rank as rapier for EP.

Puzzled,
Martin


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 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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they crept in about 3 years ago (IIRC). I was surprised as sir Wojer wanted
one, but then found out that ANYONE could learn, and the desire faded away
with the barmaid.

doesn't the guild katana SC goes up by 4 per rank to max rank 7 (?), as
apposed to the true katana (Kree's) which went up by 3 per rank to max rank
10 (?). So it must be a different weapon. which is ok because Martni's has a
special writeup.

Typical mistransliteration into Common. Curved oriental sword, oh must be a
'katana'...<g>

Ian

PS - to the point, can we add either ?
    a note for Katana in the 56.1 Weapons Shields and Armour Charts
(Weapons) table (Use sabre EP line for ranking)
or
    add a new line in the 55.1 Experience Point Costs (Weapons) table

Ian

PPS - while we are doing that, can we remove Note B "Only giants can use
giant weapons" or should we add "Short humanoids can only use hafted weapons
or cross bows, very short humanoids can only use weapons weighing 2lbs or
less."??

Select grenade, pull pin, throw, close hatch, hide. See grenade, wonder
where pin is....<eyes like saucers, adopt road kill fatalism>

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@peace.com>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 13:13
Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.


>"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:
>
>>  I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a 1-2H sabre with 2 more
MD
>> requirement).
>>
>> From: Mandos Mitchinson
>> > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to
rank
>> > katana...
>
>More of an odd aside than anything:
>
>Does anyone know when and from where those stats for Katana were added?  I
ask
>because:
>a) I didn't realize (hadn't read carefully enough I guess) that Katana was
even
>available for training (presumably at the Guild), and
>b) Those values are quite different from the ones that I have for Katanas
dating
>back a fair number of years -- which have a lower BC and higher Max rank,
and
>rank as rapier for EP.
>
>Puzzled,
>Martin
>
>
>--
>
> _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
>_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
>       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400
>
>
>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>
>


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Torch is unrankable.  This is explicitly stated.
Katana is ranked as a Sabre but it should get its own line in the weapons xp
chart.
I don't know where Lasso has come from, but I'd say rank it as a Bola which
is also an entangling weapon and goes to the same rank.

The only issue with Katana is that the guild weapon trainers don't teach it.
You either need to find some other player to teach you or have good contacts
in Kinloo.

Cheers, Stephen.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Mandos Mitchinson [SMTP:mandos@nz.asiaonline.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 12:39
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] A pointed question.
> 
> > As I go about producing a little ranking spreadsheet I have been working
> > with the tables alot.
> >
> > To my surprise we have weapons on the weapon stats table that do
> > not have a
> > corresponding entry in the Weapon EP chart.
> >
> > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to
> rank
> > katana or Torch :-)
> >
> > The documents I have been using to pull tables from are the 1996 rules
> and
> > the most recent players guide. Is it just an anomaly from these
> > publications, am I missing something obvious or is this something we
> have
> > just not picked up in the last 5 years? :-)
> 
> Lasso is also missing :-)
> 
> Mandos
> /s
>


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Also of note...
In Warrior, Category 5 is Oriental Weapons.  This includes Katana/Wakizashi,
O-Dachi, Ninjato.
3 of these don't exist in the rules.


I would say that the source of the Katana is from Kree who got it from
Martin as the GM, so it is interesting to see that it has changed somewhere
along the way.
Kree definitely uses Katana, and of the other Erelhei in the guild, I don't
think that Kin uses a sword of any description, and I believe that Victoria
uses western weapons.
I believe that some of the top Warriors in the guild (Sabrina, Martin (the
character not the GM), Blitz) have picked it up to cover all of the weapon
categories but I doubt any of them use it as a main weapon.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [SMTP:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 13:17
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] A pointed question.
> 
> I think Ross found it in some of the rule minutes from the early '90s, and
> as katana was in play, it was included. On the other hand, it could have
> been a write-up for one player.
> 
> Does anyone out there _actually_ use katana for their character?
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 1:02 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.
> 
> 
> "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:
> 
> >  I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a 1-2H sabre with 2 more
> MD
> > requirement).
> >
> > From: Mandos Mitchinson
> > > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to
> rank
> > > katana...
> 
> More of an odd aside than anything:
> 
> Does anyone know when and from where those stats for Katana were added?  I
> ask
> because:
> a) I didn't realize (hadn't read carefully enough I guess) that Katana was
> even
> available for training (presumably at the Guild), and
> b) Those values are quite different from the ones that I have for Katanas
> dating
> back a fair number of years -- which have a lower BC and higher Max rank,
> and
> rank as rapier for EP.
> 
> Puzzled,
> Martin
> 
>


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Just to confirm.

For good character reasons (it's not worth her life if she ever does return
to Kin-lu to visit) Victoria does not use any Kin-Lu (Oriental) weapons.

The closest she comes is probably Short bow or Throwing darts.

TTFN,
Struan.

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@qed.co.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.


> Also of note...
> In Warrior, Category 5 is Oriental Weapons.  This includes
Katana/Wakizashi,
> O-Dachi, Ninjato.
> 3 of these don't exist in the rules.
>
>
> I would say that the source of the Katana is from Kree who got it from
> Martin as the GM, so it is interesting to see that it has changed
somewhere
> along the way.
> Kree definitely uses Katana, and of the other Erelhei in the guild, I
don't
> think that Kin uses a sword of any description, and I believe that
Victoria
> uses western weapons.
> I believe that some of the top Warriors in the guild (Sabrina, Martin (the
> character not the GM), Blitz) have picked it up to cover all of the weapon
> categories but I doubt any of them use it as a main weapon.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [SMTP:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 13:17
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.
> >
> > I think Ross found it in some of the rule minutes from the early '90s,
and
> > as katana was in play, it was included. On the other hand, it could have
> > been a write-up for one player.
> >
> > Does anyone out there _actually_ use katana for their character?
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 1:02 p.m.
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: Re: [dq] A pointed question.
> >
> >
> > "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:
> >
> > >  I believe katana is ranked as per sabre. (its a 1-2H sabre with 2
more
> > MD
> > > requirement).
> > >
> > > From: Mandos Mitchinson
> > > > I have not run through it completly but it seems it is impossible to
> > rank
> > > > katana...
> >
> > More of an odd aside than anything:
> >
> > Does anyone know when and from where those stats for Katana were added?
I
> > ask
> > because:
> > a) I didn't realize (hadn't read carefully enough I guess) that Katana
was
> > even
> > available for training (presumably at the Guild), and
> > b) Those values are quite different from the ones that I have for
Katanas
> > dating
> > back a fair number of years -- which have a lower BC and higher Max
rank,
> > and
> > rank as rapier for EP.
> >
> > Puzzled,
> > Martin
> >
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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This is a multipart message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ian wrote
PPS - while we are doing that, can we remove Note B "Only giants can use
giant weapons" or should we add "Short humanoids can only use hafted 
weapons
or cross bows, very short humanoids can only use weapons weighing 2lbs or
less."??

This was put in deliberately as many fighters were using giant weapons 
unreasonalbly.
It was overtly decided that only giants should be able to use giant 
weapons.  I don't remember when but probably pre 1995.

There has historically been discussion about short characters and weapon 
size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly.

Rosemary
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Ian wrote</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">PPS - while we are doing that, can we remove Note B &quot;Only giants can use<br>
giant weapons&quot; or should we add &quot;Short humanoids can only use hafted weapons<br>
or cross bows, very short humanoids can only use weapons weighing 2lbs or<br>
less.&quot;??</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">This was put in deliberately as many fighters were using giant weapons unreasonalbly.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">It was overtly decided that only giants should be able to use giant weapons. &nbsp;I don't remember when but probably pre 1995.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">There has historically been discussion about short characters and weapon size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Rosemary</font>
--=_alternative 000A81EECC256A70_=--


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Stephen Martin wrote:

> I would say that the source of the Katana is from Kree who got it from
> Martin as the GM...

Libel and slander!  :)  Not my doing at all, at all....

Nope, Kree had a Katana when first I met him as a GM.  Kinlu and the Erelheine
are my doing.

What I do have is a list of various Erelheine/Oriental weapons, so of which date
back to those days (1986?) and have subsequently been simplified a little (to
remove unnecessary writing complexity).


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       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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Stephen Martin wrote:

> The only issue with Katana is that the guild weapon trainers don't teach it.
> You either need to find some other player to teach you or have good contacts
> in Kinloo.

And, if you go and learn it in Kinlu they'll teach you the proper one that
doesn't have those stats.  :)

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_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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At 20:39 18/06/01 +1200, you wrote:
>Aye there's the rub.  At high adventures, the gm/NPC often is out to kill.

Yes and no. Part of the art of good GMing is to take the party right up to 
the line where they can see messy and violent death staring their 
characters in the face, but balancing it so the enemy bites it instead.

> >Secondly, sitting there while one person hogs the action is dead boring for
> >the other players - so if your character wanders off by itsrelf on one of
> >my adventures, it becomes fair game for all sorts of trouble.
>
>It just struck me as being relevant here, that from the parenting guide
>books, they say give positive feedback to good behaivour, and ignore the
>bad behaivour.  The theory is that for the child/player, any attention is
>better than none.  So if the character wanders off, my interpretation is
>that the main group gets lots of gm attention, and the individual gets
>"well basically, nothing really interesting happens and you get back to the
>rest of the group an hour later".

My approach is that life becomes very painful for the errant PC, and the 
rest of the party can have a good chuckle at his or her expense. 
Horse-troughs and stocks are such wonderful inventions...

>I recall there used to be a list for good behaivour for players in the
>player handbook?, with things like being polite, and making an effort to
>turn up to every session, or calling if running late.  To respect the word
>of the gm and bring disagreements up at the end of the session if it's not
>settled immediately, which was immediately followed by rules like Don't
>Shout.

There was. Perhaps it needs to be re-stated...

BTW I am well aware that I have a tendency to get rather loud if I get 
excited without actually realising I'm doing it. I just need to be quietly 
reminded to settle down, and I do. I suspect that there are many times when 
players annoy the GM without meaning to. A quiet word to the player can 
make a real difference.

>Personally, I dislike sidetracks into rules discussions during the game.
>The gm announces how rules are going to work at the beginning of adventure,
>or if the player is unsure, they ask at the start of the session how their
>particular spell is going to be interpreted.

There are a LOT of rules, and as many interpretations as there are players 
in the guild. I can see how misunderstandings can arise, but I think the 
player has to accept that the session GM's interpretation has to be 
accepted - for that session.

Jacqui


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<h3>
Namer Conversion Document -- Draft v1.0</h3>
With the introduction of the revised Namer college existing Namer characters
will need to be converted, and this document will attempt to make conversion
as simple as possible. Conversion should be undertaken with the assistance
of a GM and will need to be verified and signed off by that GM at the completion
of conversion.&nbsp; The following are GM and Player guidelines for conversion.
<h4>
Talents</h4>
<u>T1. Detect Aura:</u> Converted as is.
<br><u>T2. Expel Magic:</u> Acquired at Rank 0.&nbsp; The first time that
an existing Namer gains rank with this talent they may assume Adventuring
time of (PC-5) weeks for the purposes of achievable rank, but must pay
normal EP.
<br><u>T3. Quick Cast:</u> Acquired. Unrankable.
<h4>
General Knowledge</h4>
Converted as is.
<h4>
Special Knowledge</h4>
Only three of the existing abilities continue through to the revised College
(Banish, Compel Obedience, and Divination).&nbsp; Of these Compel has been
substantially revised.&nbsp; Banish and Divinate should convert as is unless
a Player has justifiable reason for alteration. Players should be given
the option of having time/cost/EP refunded for Compel -- provided that
this refund is respent on Namer abilities.&nbsp; The remaining Namer SK
abilities of Charm, Paralysis and Name Summoning are dropped in the revised
version.&nbsp; Players will have time/cost/EP refunded.&nbsp; This refund
should be spent on Namer abilities.
<h4>
Odd Stuff</h4>
There are some issues with Namer conversion, mostly arising from the number
of odd abilities out there in the field amongst Namer characters.&nbsp;
Magical abilities held by Namer characters can be broken down into a number
of basic types:
<ul>
<li>
<b>Out of College.</b>&nbsp; Some characters will have GM-given magical
abilities that do not fit within the College at all such as spells from
other standard colleges (e.g. Firebolt, Shadow Wings) or non-college abilities
that do not benefit from Namer college bonuses (e.g. shapeshift into a
toad, speak to dragons).&nbsp; <u>These abilities should not be affected
in any way by conversion to the revised College.</u></li>

<li>
<b>In College.</b>&nbsp; These break down further into:</li>

<ul>
<li>
<b>Unusual, Non-analogous.&nbsp;</b>&nbsp; Abilities that are typically
unteachable, often unique and have no similarity to any abilities in either
the revised Namer college or the previous version.&nbsp; (e.g. Name based
weapon enchanting spells). <u>These abilities should not be affected in
any way by conversion to the revised College.</u></li>

<li>
<b>Unusual, Analogous.&nbsp;</b> Abilities that are currently not part
of Namer but which have similarities to new abilities in the revised Namer
college.&nbsp; (e.g. Name based circle of protection, Planar sealing).
It is possible that some of these abilities are currently teachable. Players
should be given the option of either converting their ability to its counterpart
in the revised college (this may require some time and EP rework) or retaining
the ability as an <u>Unteachable</u> variant.&nbsp; This second option
will not prevent the character from subsequently learning the standard
College version in addition.</li>

<li>
<b>Deprecated Variants.</b>&nbsp; Abilities that are modified forms of
existing Namer abilities which <u>are not</u> supported in the revised
College.&nbsp; (e.g. Multi-target paralysis, physical summoning by name).&nbsp;
Some of these abilities may currently be teachable variants.&nbsp; Players
should be given the option of either receiving a refund for these abilities
or retaining them as <u>Unteachable</u> abilities.</li>

<li>
<b>Supported Variants.</b> Abilities that are modified forms of existing
Namer abilities which <u>are</u> supported in the revised College. These
abilities should be converted as closely as possible to the newer versions
of the same ability.&nbsp; GMs may need to alter the ability slightly to
fit with the revised version of the ability.&nbsp; For example, Compel
Obedience has been substantially revised and a variant version should be
checked against the new write-up to ensure that only the variant portion
is converted through.</li>
</ul>
</ul>

<h4>
End Note</h4>
These guidelines are obviously not exhaustive and GMs will need to adjudicate
for fairness, intent, flavour, etc. as usual.
<br>&nbsp;
<p>--
<p>&nbsp;_/_/&nbsp; Peace Software New Zealand Ltd&nbsp;&nbsp; Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
<br>_/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin Dickson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fax&nbsp; : +64-9-373-0401
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Product Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
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For any GMs who are interested, here's my list of Kinlu weapons.
<p>There is no intention to make these standard or main-stream -- if nothing
else whilst they add to the flavour and contrast to odd "eastern" PCs and
games they do not fit well with the pseudo-european fantasy of western
Alusia.
<p>As an aside: If Katana is not taught as a standard weapon, and there
is no-one with one currently, should it perhaps be removed from the weapons
list rather than added to the EP table?
<p>Anyhoo... if any GMs would like to make use of Kinlu weapons... here
they are.
<p>Cheers,
<br>Martin
<p>---
<p><b><font face="Arial"><font size=+1>Kinlu Weapons</font></font></b>
<p>The chart below details the most common weapons in use in Kinlu that
are substantially different from their Alusian counterparts. Many Kinlu
weapons are the same as Alusian ones and the same skills and statistics
apply.
<br>&nbsp;
<table BORDER CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7 >
<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><b><font size=-1>Weapon</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><b><font size=-1>Wt</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><b><font size=-1>PS</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><b><font size=-1>MD</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><b><font size=-1>SC</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><b><font size=-1>DM</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><b><font size=-1>Range</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><b><font size=-1>Class</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><b><font size=-1>Use</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><b><font size=-1>Rk</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><b><font size=-1>EM Equivalent</font></b></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Katana (1-2)<sup>A</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>17</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>45</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+4</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>B</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Rapier</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Wakazashi<sup>A</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>14</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>17</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>45</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>B</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Rapier</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>No-Daichi (2)</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>5</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>18</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>17</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>50</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+6</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>B</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>8</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Scimitar</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Ninjato (1-2)</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>13</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>17</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>50</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>B</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>9</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Estoc</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Sai<sup>B</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>8</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>45</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>6</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>A/C</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>RMC</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Main-Gauche</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Manriki-kusari (2)<sup>C</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>6</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>14</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>19</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>40</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>B</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>RMC</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Whip</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Nunchaku (2)<sup>D</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>14</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>17</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>45</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>C</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>8</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Scimitar</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Tonfa</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>14</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>50</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+0</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>C</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>MC</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>5</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>War Club</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Shuriken<sup>E</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>2oz</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>9</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>40</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>-1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>12</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>A</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>R</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Dart</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Kataran<sup>F</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>12</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>16</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>35</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>-1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>C</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>MC</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>9</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Cestus</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Tetsubo (2)</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>8</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>22</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>50</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+7</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>C</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>M</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>5</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>War Club</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>War Fan<sup>G</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>8</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>40</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>+0</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>P</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>A</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>MC</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>10</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Main-Gauche</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="21%"><font size=-1>Tetsubishi<sup>H</sup></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>5</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>15</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>40</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="6%"><font size=-1>-3</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>6</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>A</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="8%"><font size=-1>R</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="7%"><font size=-1>4</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="17%"><font size=-1>Grenado</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

<p><b>A</b> Katana &amp; Wakizashi are two different sized versions of
the same weapon. They have slightly different uses in combat since the
smaller Wakizashi can be more easily used in confined spaces. The major
difference however is cultural in that the Wakizashi is viewed as a less
hostile weapon and can be carried openly in most situations, much as a
dagger will often be retained in Alusian society. It is only necessary
to rank Katana once and the same rank will apply to both these weapons.
<p><b>B</b> When used in Melee or Close, Sai may inflict either A or C
class damage. Because of their size and weight they cannot inflict C class
Grievous Injuries. If a roll of 15% of modified SC is made when Sai are
used to Disarm the opponent does not receive a roll to retain their weapon
and must drop it. Sai may be used to either attack or deflect blows.
<p><b>C</b> Several similar weapons are covered under this skill, including
the Manriki-kusari, Kusari-gama and Kyoketsu-shogi. All comprise a weighted
chain or rope which may be used to Entangle, and a bladed weapon such as
a small sword or axe. Like a whip these weapons may be used to Entangle
and damage in the same Pulse. This damage has a DM of -2. The damage on
the weapon table is for the blade which may be used in melee and also against
opponents another hex away. The weapon can also Trip in Melee. In close
the weapon may be used as a Garrote. This is a complex and difficult weapon
to use and GMs are encouraged to be inventive with Fumbles.
<p><b>D</b> Due to the Nunchaku's extreme speed in the hands of a Master,
at Ranks 6 and above this weapon may be used to Multi-hex Strike.
<p><b>E</b> Up to three Shuriken can be thrown at one, two or three targets
in one Pulse with no penalty.
<p><b>F</b> Kataran are worn along the backs of the forearms and need not
be prepared to use, and may be used to either attack or deflect blows.
<p><b>G</b> War fans are designed to look like normal decorative fans and
will generally pass casual inspection as such. They may be used to strike
or to distract an opponent and increase the user's DEF.
<p><b>H</b> Tetsubishi are small, sharp caltrops scattered to delay and
deter pursuit. The weight shown is for a single use of them and is enough
to cover 1 mega-hex. The SC is the chance of throwing caltrops so that
they scatter around a centre chosen by the player. In the case of a "miss"
the GM should randomly determine their placement. It is possible to carefully
place the clatrops, or toss them into adjacent hexes only with no chance
of "missing".
<p><b><i><font face="Arial">Shields</font></i></b>
<br>&nbsp;
<table BORDER CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7 >
<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><b><font size=-1>Shield Type</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><b><font size=-1>Wt</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><b><font size=-1>Def/Rank</font></b></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><b><font size=-1>MD loss</font></b></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><font size=-1>&nbsp;</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><font size=-1>Sai</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><font size=-1>-</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><font size=-1>Tonfa</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><font size=-1>-</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><font size=-1>Kataran</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><font size=-1>-1</font></td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="56%"><font size=-1>War Fan</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>1</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="16%"><font size=-1>2</font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="13%"><font size=-1>-</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

<br>&nbsp;
<p>--
<p>&nbsp;_/_/&nbsp; Peace Software New Zealand Ltd&nbsp;&nbsp; Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
<br>_/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin Dickson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fax&nbsp; : +64-9-373-0401
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Product Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone: +64-9-373-0400
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Without wanting to get into a rules change discussion about small people and
weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable weapons for a specific
halfling character.
 
I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been using
a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her height, and
has increased her strength from 5 to 7.
 
However, she now can increase her strength to PS 27 for large chunks of the
day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any weapon except giant weapons,
lance and longbow.
 
What is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6 times her
own weight?
 
Short sword? Sabre? rapier? H&aHalf?
hand axe ? battle axe? great axe?
javelin? spear? glaive?
 
All opinions welcome.
 
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
There has historically been discussion about short characters and weapon
size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly. 

Rosemary


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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001>Without wanting to get into a rules change discussion 
about small people and weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable 
weapons for a specific halfling character.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=771133602-19062001>I play 
a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been using a dagger 
in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her height, and has increased 
her strength from 5 to 7.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001>However, she now can increase her strength to PS 27 for 
large chunks of the day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any weapon except 
giant weapons, lance and longbow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=771133602-19062001>What 
is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6 times her own 
weight?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=771133602-19062001>Short 
sword? Sabre? rapier? H&amp;aHalf?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=771133602-19062001>hand 
axe ? battle axe? great axe?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001>javelin? spear? glaive?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=771133602-19062001>All 
opinions welcome.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=771133602-19062001>Andrew</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR></FONT><FONT face="Courier New" 
  size=2>There has historically been discussion about short characters and 
  weapon size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT 
  face="Courier New" size=2>Rosemary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0F869.DB956C12--


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"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:

>  I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs...What is reasonable for
> a person of her size, given she can lift 6 times her own weight?

With such low weight things you have to swing would seem a bad plan, and
long hafted weapons would appear a bit odd.
"I say, interesting shaped counterweight you've got on that pike... good
grief, it's moving by itself".
So I'd say medium length and very sharp stabbing would seem most
reasonable, e.g. javelin, rapier, estoc.

On the other hand, the strength is obviously magical so why not play it
up -- go for Great Axe and watch people's eyes widen.  :)

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_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
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oh yes please, for then I can seek it again. Mind you, last time sir Wojer
walked all the way to Kinlu, the b!@#$ds spoke foreign so he turned around
and walked back!

>
>As an aside: If Katana is not taught as a standard weapon, and there is
no-one with one currently, should it perhaps be removed from the weapons
list rather than added to the EP table?
>

er, to the point Martin, IIRC, Mark H said katana Strike Chance went up by 3
per rank, rather than the normal 4.

is this correct for all the weapons? I quite like it. nothing like knowing I
am seeking an inferior weapon...<g>

Ian


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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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I started to think about this.

I really did.

And in all seriousness the only answer I can come up with is
"I don't know"

Any thoughts about actual possibilities start spiralling into areas that =
threaten to cause my head to explode. (or make me want to GEOS on an old =
Vic=3D20, which is a lot similar :-)

The more *initially* palatable ideas included:
Javelin as a spear(two handed) or pike.
Spear as Pike.
Hand axe as Battle-Axe.
Unarmed with tiger (climbing) claws and crampons. :-) {Sorry just =
couldn't resist)

The other thoughts I had generally revolve around the idea that as =
someone who has the power to lift 6 times their own weight (albeit only =
to a height of 2'6"), she can probably jump over most characters heads =
(I would probably allow clearing 7' given 20+ AG).

Or the idea of a Heavy composite recurve bow used as a body bow. Sit =
down, set bow haft against heels, nock arrow between boots, Draw bow =
using classic "rowing" action to left or right of nose (depending on =
primary eye), raise legs for elevation and release. A clothyard shaft =
draws between 26 and 32 inches if memory serves, so would be just about =
right.

Or carrying a heavy crossbow (in a back sling) and using it from a pole. =
I'd be worried if a small child (to first perception) could recock and =
fire a heavy crossbow in 10 seconds.=20


Hope these help somewhat.

TTFN,
Struan.

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK)=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] weapons


  Without wanting to get into a rules change discussion about small =
people and weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable weapons =
for a specific halfling character.
  =20
  I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been =
using a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her =
height, and has increased her strength from 5 to 7.
  =20
  However, she now can increase her strength to PS 27 for large chunks =
of the day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any weapon except giant =
weapons, lance and longbow.
  =20
  What is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6 =
times her own weight?
  =20
  Short sword? Sabre? rapier? H&aHalf?
  hand axe ? battle axe? great axe?
  javelin? spear? glaive?
  =20
  All opinions welcome.
  =20
  Andrew
    -----Original Message-----
    There has historically been discussion about short characters and =
weapon size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly.=20

    Rosemary

------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C0F8D1.CD9F5B00
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I started to think about =
this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I really did.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And in all seriousness the only answer =
I can come=20
up with is</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"I don't know"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any thoughts about actual possibilities =
start=20
spiralling into areas that threaten to cause my head to explode. (or =
make me=20
want to GEOS on an old Vic=3D20, which is a lot similar :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The more *initially* palatable ideas=20
included:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Javelin as a spear(two handed) or=20
pike.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Spear as Pike.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hand axe as =
Battle-Axe.</FONT></DIV>Unarmed with=20
tiger (climbing) claws and crampons. :-) {Sorry just couldn't=20
resist)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The other thoughts I had generally =
revolve around=20
the idea that as someone who has the power to lift 6 times their own =
weight=20
(albeit only to a height of 2'6"), she can probably jump over most =
characters=20
heads (I would probably allow clearing 7' given 20+ AG).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or the idea of a Heavy composite =
recurve bow used=20
as a body bow. Sit down, set bow haft against heels, nock arrow between =
boots,=20
Draw bow using classic "rowing" action to left or right of nose =
(depending on=20
primary eye), raise legs for elevation and release. A clothyard shaft =
draws=20
between 26 and 32 inches if memory serves, so would be just about=20
right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or carrying a heavy crossbow (in a back =
sling) and=20
using it from a pole. I'd be worried if a small child (to first =
perception)=20
could recock and fire a heavy crossbow in 10 seconds. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope these help somewhat.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>TTFN,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Struan.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz" =
title=3DAndrewW@datacom.co.nz>Andrew=20
  Withy (DSL AK)</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz"=20
  title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 19, 2001 =
2:45=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] weapons</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001>Without wanting to get into a rules change =
discussion=20
  about small people and weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on =
reasonable=20
  weapons for a specific halfling character.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D771133602-19062001>I=20
  play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been =
using a=20
  dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her height, =
and has=20
  increased her strength from 5 to 7.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001>However, she now can increase her strength =
to PS 27=20
  for large chunks of the day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any =
weapon=20
  except giant weapons, lance and longbow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D771133602-19062001>What=20
  is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6 times her =
own=20
  weight?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001>Short sword? Sabre? rapier?=20
  H&amp;aHalf?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D771133602-19062001>hand=20
  axe ? battle axe? great axe?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001>javelin? spear? glaive?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D771133602-19062001>All=20
  opinions welcome.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D771133602-19062001>Andrew</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"=20
    size=3D2>There has historically been discussion about short =
characters and=20
    weapon size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly.</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
    face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2>Rosemary</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0115_01C0F8D1.CD9F5B00--


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On Tuesday, June 19, 2001, at 02:45  PM, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:

> Without wanting to get into a rules change discussion about small=20
> people and weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable weapons=20=

> for a specific halfling character.
> =A0
> I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been=20=

> using a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her=20=

> height, and has increased her strength from 5 to 7.
> =A0
> However, she now can increase her strength to PS 27 for large chunks =
of=20
> the day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any weapon except giant=20
> weapons, lance and longbow.
> =A0
> What is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6 =
times=20
> her own weight?
> =A0
> Short sword? Sabre? rapier? H&aHalf?
> hand axe ? battle axe? great axe?
> javelin? spear? glaive?

I agree with Martin that stabby (A class) weapons would make the most=20
sense when regarding how the physics work. Perhaps slashy weapons=20
specially made with counterweights on the end would work - let the=20
weapon provide the weight required rather than you. But I'm no=20
mechanician,

clare


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Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood wrote:

> ... last time sir Wojer walked all the way to Kinlu, the b!@#$ds spoke
> foreign...

Yes, they do that.  I understand however that if you speak Very LOUDLY and
S-L-O-W-L-Y they can understand you just fine.  Perhaps you could try it on your
next trip.  :)

> ...IIRC, Mark H said katana Strike Chance went up by 3 per rank, rather than
> the normal 4.

<shrug>   I think that'll date back to the ill-fated "Adventurer" days.  The
plan was that weapons would have variable rank bonuses.

> is this correct for all the weapons?

No.  The ones on the table I sent have all the standard pluses and minuses
except where explicitly stated otherwise.

> I quite like it. nothing like knowing I am seeking an inferior weapon...<g>

Oh well... in that case may I interest Sir in this magnificent Manriki-kusari...
or is it a Kusari-gama... never the mind... look Sir, it has a finely crafted
and hideously sharp axe bladedy, knifey, hooky thing on this end, two full yards
of high quality chain and the bludgeon on the other end has sharpened ridges.
Would Sir like it wrapped... or would he prefer to wear it?  :)

--

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_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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Clare West wrote:

> Perhaps slashy weapons specially made with counterweights on the end would
> work...

ROTFL.  :)

Wind up halfing, stand well clear and watch her spin through the opposition
like a cartoon Tasmanian Devil.

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 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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If ps 27 and ag 26 halfling then use unarmed

D-4 + 4for ps + 2R8+ = (D-4)+6, fist ,fist, kick (3
attacks per round ).
Try and get fingernails replaced or some such to get
R10 weaponsmith bonus +2 = (D-4)+8
Get warrior R5 +1 dmg = (D-4)+9
Get assasin so they can be poisoned with r10
alchemical poison ( or R15 if you know a daemon or two
)

Then BC will Be 2*AG + MD + PS over 15 + R10 = 130 +
warrior + greater ( should be able to top 160% BC)



=====
cheers noel

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If ps 27 and ag 26 halfling then use unarmed

D-4 + 4for ps + 2R8+ = (D-4)+6, fist ,fist, kick (3
attacks per round ).
Try and get fingernails replaced or some such to get
R10 weaponsmith bonus +2 = (D-4)+8
Get warrior R5 +1 dmg = (D-4)+9
Get assasin so they can be poisoned with r10
alchemical poison ( or R15 if you know a daemon or two
)

Then BC will Be 2*AG + MD + PS over 15 + R10 = 130 +
warrior + greater ( should be able to top 160% BC)



=====
cheers noel

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If ps 27 and ag 26 halfling then use unarmed

D-4 + 4for ps + 2R8+ = (D-4)+6, fist ,fist, kick (3
attacks per round ).
Try and get fingernails replaced or some such to get
R10 weaponsmith bonus +2 = (D-4)+8
Get warrior R5 +1 dmg = (D-4)+9
Get assasin so they can be poisoned with r10
alchemical poison ( or R15 if you know a daemon or two
)

Then BC will Be 2*AG + MD + PS over 15 + R10 = 130 +
warrior + greater ( should be able to top 160% BC)



=====
cheers noel

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A very string hobbit could use a large bow in the style of the Japanese
giant bows (whatever they were called) where you start with the arrow and
bow above your head and bring it down to eye level to fire.  Using this
method the bow can be almost twice your height and the length or arrows can
be almost your height (given that finger tip to finger tip is approx equal
to your height).

Drawing on my memory of LOTR the fellowship Hobbits all used daggers or
short swords.  However in the battle for the shire I seem to recall there
were Hobbits that wielded pole-weapons - in proportion to their size of
course.  So while a Human Halberd was 6' a Hobbit Halberd was only 3'.

My assumption is that hobbit weapons are slightly smaller (shorter hafts
etc) but if wielded by a hobbit with sufficient physical prowess they are as
effective as if they were wielded by a human.  
Hobbits move around more, get better power to weight ratio and make up for
greater swing momentum by applying greater accelleration in the swing, most
armour is designed to stop blows from an equal height or taller opponent and
is thus more vulnerable to attacks from below, ...

1 handed piercing weapons, and small or light slashing weapons are the ones
that feel most appropriate for a Hobbit though.

Cheers, Stephen.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Struan Judd [SMTP:neongraal@neongraal.sf.org.nz]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 15:09
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] weapons
>  
> Or the idea of a Heavy composite recurve bow used as a body bow. Sit down,
> set bow haft against heels, nock arrow between boots, Draw bow using
> classic "rowing" action to left or right of nose (depending on primary
> eye), raise legs for elevation and release. A clothyard shaft draws
> between 26 and 32 inches if memory serves, so would be just about right.
>  
> TTFN,
> Struan.
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> 	From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) <mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz> 
> 	To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz> 
> 
> 	Without wanting to get into a rules change discussion about small
> people and weapons, I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable weapons for
> a specific halfling character.
> 	 
> 	I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has
> been using a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her
> height, and has increased her strength from 5 to 7.
> 	 
> 	However, she now can increase her strength to PS 27 for large chunks
> of the day, which with MD 25 allows her to use any weapon except giant
> weapons, lance and longbow.
> 	 
> 	What is reasonable for a person of her size, given she can lift 6
> times her own weight?
> 	 
> 	Short sword? Sabre? rapier? H&aHalf?
> 	hand axe ? battle axe? great axe?
> 	javelin? spear? glaive?
> 	 
> 	All opinions welcome.
> 	 
> 	Andrew
> 
> 		-----Original Message-----
> 		There has historically been discussion about short
> characters and weapon size but it has never gone anywhere sensibly. 
> 		
> 		Rosemary
>


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Proposed prices for the revised Namer college, intended for inclusion in
the Player's guide. My thanks to Rosemary for her assistance with the prices.
<p>Existing abilities have retained the same price, except for Divination
which has had its price raised slightly to account for the new "Ancient
Divination" functionality.
<p>Cheers,
<br>Martin
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<table BORDER CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 >
<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>#</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Name</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Price</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>GM Value</font></font></div>
</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP COLSPAN="4" WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-1</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bane</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>12000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-2</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Banishment</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>2000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-3</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Compel
Obedience</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>10000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-4</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Disjunction</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>8000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-5</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Dispel
Magic</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>15000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-6</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Forbidding</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>4000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-7</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Mana
Sense</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>3000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-8</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Scry
Shield</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>15000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-9</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Spell
Barrier</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>7500</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>S-10</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>True
Seeing</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>6000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-1</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Divination</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>2000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-2</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Expulsion</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>7500</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-3</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Interregnum</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>7500</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-4</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Remove
Curse</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>5000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-5</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Sealing</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>10000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-6</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>True
Form</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>3000</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">&nbsp;</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R-7</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="42%" HEIGHT="16"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>True
Speaking</font></font></td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="20%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Quest</font></font></div>
</td>

<td VALIGN=TOP WIDTH="19%" HEIGHT="16">
<div align=right><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>15000</font></font></div>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<p>--
<p>&nbsp;_/_/&nbsp; Peace Software New Zealand Ltd&nbsp;&nbsp; Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
<br>_/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin Dickson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fax&nbsp; : +64-9-373-0401
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Product Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone: +64-9-373-0400
<br>&nbsp;</html>


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A couple of minor points...
You can't punch twice and kick without some odd GM given ability.  Punching
twice is effectively a 2 weapon attack and suffers the usual -10/-30 to hit.
Kick is an alternative unarmed attack that does D-2 instead of D-4.  So you
could 2 weapon attack and punch them at -10 then kick them at -30 (or the
other way around) but you don't get 3 attacks.

Expecting a damage bonus for weaponsmith is a bit optimistic.  Items or
abilities to make unarmed attacks magical or silvered or weaponsmithed are
extremely rare.

I do however like the idea of using kick as the main attack.  D-2 +6  =>  7
to 14 damage.  A 2 weapon attack with kicks: Faith tramples her opposition
into the ground by running up them and kicking them in the head (often using
their kidneys as foot-holds).


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Noel Livingston [SMTP:arnauddemontfort@yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 15:28
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	[dq] Halfling weapons
> 
> If ps 27 and ag 26 halfling then use unarmed
> 
> D-4 + 4for ps + 2R8+ = (D-4)+6, fist ,fist, kick (3
> attacks per round ).
> Try and get fingernails replaced or some such to get
> R10 weaponsmith bonus +2 = (D-4)+8
> Get warrior R5 +1 dmg = (D-4)+9
> Get assasin so they can be poisoned with r10
> alchemical poison ( or R15 if you know a daemon or two
> )
> 
> Then BC will Be 2*AG + MD + PS over 15 + R10 = 130 +
> warrior + greater ( should be able to top 160% BC)
> 
> =====
> cheers noel
>


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Given that the specific problem I am encountering with Excel is a DQ
spreadsheet I was wondering if any Excel Guru's preferably with Visual Basic
knowledge could fire me an Email to help out with a problem I am having :-)

Mandos
/s


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Stephen Martin,

Actually if ambidextrous get both at -10%, I think.
and if R3 unarmed or above get free kick, which can be
a trip attack to drop them to the ground so you can
beat them in the head with those melee attacks.



=====
cheers noel

__________________________________________________
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At 14:45 19/06/01 +1200, you wrote:
>I play a tiny female halfling - 2'6", 37lbs. Up until now she has been 
>using a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18" long, or 60% of her 
>height, and has increased her strength from 5 to 7.
>
Hmm... My 3-year-old son is 90cm tall and weighs about 11kg. I think he's 
working on ranking broom and plastic sword just now...

Jacqui
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<html>
At 14:45 19/06/01 +1200, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">I
play a tiny female halfling - 2'6&quot;, 37lbs. Up until now she has been
using a dagger in two hands, as the dagger is 18&quot; long, or 60% of
her height, and has increased her strength from 5 to 7.</font><br>
&nbsp;</blockquote>Hmm... My 3-year-old son is 90cm tall and weighs about
11kg. I think he's working on ranking broom and plastic sword just
now...<br><br>
Jacqui</html>

--=====================_310942358==_.ALT--


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Noel Livingston wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>...if R3 unarmed or above get free kick...</blockquote>
Not free.
<p><i>3.14 Unarmed Combat</i>
<p>Figures with Rank 3 Unarmed may kick <u>rather than</u> striking with
their hands... They may also use a kick as their secondary weapon for a
Multiple Strike Attack.
<p>Cheers,
<br>Martin
<br>--
<p>&nbsp;_/_/&nbsp; Peace Software New Zealand Ltd&nbsp;&nbsp; Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
<br>_/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin Dickson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fax&nbsp; : +64-9-373-0401
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Product Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone: +64-9-373-0400
<br>&nbsp;</html>


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Note that kick does the same damage as normal unarmed (combat 3.14).

An idea of whether a kick is a second or third attack would be useful, both
as player & GM. (without weird abilities, of course)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 4:03 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Halfling weapons


A couple of minor points...
You can't punch twice and kick without some odd GM given ability.  Punching
twice is effectively a 2 weapon attack and suffers the usual -10/-30 to hit.
Kick is an alternative unarmed attack that does D-2 instead of D-4.  So you
could 2 weapon attack and punch them at -10 then kick them at -30 (or the
other way around) but you don't get 3 attacks.


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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font color="#0000FF"><font size=-1>Without
wanting to get into a rules change discussion about small people and weapons,
I'd like a range of opinions on reasonable weapons for a specific halfling
character.</font></font></font></blockquote>
[...]
<br>Here is an example of how a somewhat similar problem has been dealt
with.
<p>My illusionist, Hoo, has some boots that makes him leprachaun sized
(12" tall). The item writeup restricts weapons use to nothing heavier than
a shortsword. (I&nbsp;can look up the exact wording if anyone cares - I&nbsp;can't
remember if it was limited on PS requirement, length, weight, or a combination.)&nbsp;For
what it is worth, he can use normal weapons - they don't need to have specially
resized hilts. The explanation for this is the traditional one:&nbsp;"It's
magic."
<p>Scaling this up to a halfling would allow you to use pretty much anything
except the biggest weapons - two handed sword, great axe, glaive.</html>


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Stephen Martin wrote:

> You're right on the Ambidextrous bit though, it effectively gives you +20%
> on the second attack.  Which makes sense with two weapons or fists but
> doesn't make much sense for a punch and kick.

I disagree.  From what tiny bit of martial arts I did years ago I know that I
can kick better with my right foot than my left, because I'm left handed and
balancing on my left leg feels more natural.

Whilst "Ambidexterity" generally refers to hands, what it means is "equally
dextrous" -- or skilled in physical movement.

--

 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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I stand corrected on the kick damage.  I'm sure it was D-2 at one stage,
perhaps that was in the Advanced Unarmed Combat that was around for a while
in the days of Yore.
Also it specifies in Unarmed that Kick may be used as a secondary attack for
a Multiple Strike Attack.  But given that the only advantage kicking has
over punching is that you can have your hands full, I'd rule that if at
least one hand is empty then you can attack with whatever combination of
fists and feet is most stylish.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [SMTP:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 16:36
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] Halfling weapons
> 
> Note that kick does the same damage as normal unarmed (combat 3.14).
> 
> An idea of whether a kick is a second or third attack would be useful,
> both
> as player & GM. (without weird abilities, of course)
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@qed.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 4:03 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Halfling weapons
> 
> 
> A couple of minor points...
> You can't punch twice and kick without some odd GM given ability.
> Punching
> twice is effectively a 2 weapon attack and suffers the usual -10/-30 to
> hit.
> Kick is an alternative unarmed attack that does D-2 instead of D-4.  So
> you
> could 2 weapon attack and punch them at -10 then kick them at -30 (or the
> other way around) but you don't get 3 attacks.
> 
> 
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What Martin said.  Also Trip is a special attack and as such can't be
combined with other special attacks like 2 weapon attack.
So you can Trip them and then hit them in the head twice but it takes two
pulses or quickness.
You're right on the Ambidextrous bit though, it effectively gives you +20%
on the second attack.  Which makes sense with two weapons or fists but
doesn't make much sense for a punch and kick.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Noel Livingston [SMTP:arnauddemontfort@yahoo.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, 19 June 2001 16:13
> To:	dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject:	Re: [dq] Halfling weapons
> 
> Stephen Martin,
> 
> Actually if ambidextrous get both at -10%, I think.
> and if R3 unarmed or above get free kick, which can be
> a trip attack to drop them to the ground so you can
> beat them in the head with those melee attacks.
> 
> =====
> cheers noel
> 
>


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In order to get a Multiple Strike attack one has to be "armed with two prepared
weapons".  If you have the baby in one hand and the other hand free, you can
Multiple Strike with punch and kick  (assuming Rk3+ UnCbt).

Failing Rk3+ you must settle for either a single punch, or punch and crude
club.  :)

---

Stephen Martin wrote:

> Also it specifies in Unarmed that Kick may be used as a secondary attack for
> a Multiple Strike Attack.  But given that the only advantage kicking has
> over punching is that you can have your hands full, I'd rule that if at
> least one hand is empty then you can attack with whatever combination of
> fists and feet is most stylish.

--

 _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400


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Yep, I'm not too bad (but a little rusty, I've mainly being doing Access
recently, though work is helping with this)

Errol

me too, from Thursday - Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@nz.asiaonline.net>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 16:27
Subject: [dq] Calling all Excel Gods. Vaguely on topic in the loosest
fashion.


>
>
>Given that the specific problem I am encountering with Excel is a DQ
>spreadsheet I was wondering if any Excel Guru's preferably with Visual
Basic
>knowledge could fire me an Email to help out with a problem I am having :-)
>
>Mandos
>/s
>
>
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>
>


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I feel there is more to go on this thread. We should address issues as they
arise, rather than wait for teh end of session etc.

Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Clare West <clare@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date: Tuesday, 19 June 2001 08:47
Subject: Re: [dq] Players advice from GM's


>
>On Tuesday, June 19, 2001, at 08:12  AM, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:
>
>> I believe assassin says something about the GM even being advised
>> to run solo sessions for that character.
>
>The rule actually says:
>
>"The GM must allow assassins to practice their art as they wish and this
>may result in solo adventures."
>
>And so long as an assassin doesn't think "as they wish" includes not
>being caught and strung up and their ashes scattered to the 4 winds, I
>guess its fine.
>
>clare
>
>
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>
>


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Several time speople have commented on various
messages that the rules being looked at are
trivial and this may be a fact that everything
major has been resolved.

Some examples of trivial or perrenial items that
crop up;
Death aspect - its worked since DQ1     trivial
item
GE - perennial   always get brought up at least
once a year
Inivisibility (of any flavour)  perennial   always

get brought up at least once a year
Quickness  perennial   always get brought up at
least once a year

The list goes on.



Maybe its time to take a step back look at the
system as a whole and ask "Where do we want DQ to
go?".


There is also 1 major area that everbody agrees is

broken and a lot of time and effort has been put
in by a lot of GM's and Players.  This area is
combat yet every time it is discussed the
discussion quietly dies and nobody carries on with

it.


Scott Whitaker


PS:  If GE is dropped do those characters for whom

a permanent greater was the only reward for the
session get money in return?


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Baby should be counted as a weapon.
1> it can be thrown & swung
2> Can become a highly volatile missile weapon LOL :-)

Scott

Disclaimer;  This e-mail should be taken in jest and in no way shows the opinion of
the authour.

Martin Dickson wrote:

> In order to get a Multiple Strike attack one has to be "armed with two prepared
> weapons".  If you have the baby in one hand and the other hand free, you can
> Multiple Strike with punch and kick  (assuming Rk3+ UnCbt).
>
> Failing Rk3+ you must settle for either a single punch, or punch and crude
> club.  :)
>
> ---
>
> Stephen Martin wrote:
>
> > Also it specifies in Unarmed that Kick may be used as a secondary attack for
> > a Multiple Strike Attack.  But given that the only advantage kicking has
> > over punching is that you can have your hands full, I'd rule that if at
> > least one hand is empty then you can attack with whatever combination of
> > fists and feet is most stylish.
>
> --
>
>  _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
> _/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
>        Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Baby should be counted as a weapon.
<br>1> it can be thrown &amp; swung
<br>2> Can become a highly volatile missile weapon LOL :-)
<p>Scott
<p><b>Disclaimer;&nbsp; This e-mail should be taken in jest and in no way
shows the opinion of the authour.</b>
<p>Martin Dickson wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>In order to get a Multiple Strike attack one has
to be "armed with two prepared
<br>weapons".&nbsp; If you have the baby in one hand and the other hand
free, you can
<br>Multiple Strike with punch and kick&nbsp; (assuming Rk3+ UnCbt).
<p>Failing Rk3+ you must settle for either a single punch, or punch and
crude
<br>club.&nbsp; :)
<p>---
<p>Stephen Martin wrote:
<p>> Also it specifies in Unarmed that Kick may be used as a secondary
attack for
<br>> a Multiple Strike Attack.&nbsp; But given that the only advantage
kicking has
<br>> over punching is that you can have your hands full, I'd rule that
if at
<br>> least one hand is empty then you can attack with whatever combination
of
<br>> fists and feet is most stylish.
<p>--
<p>&nbsp;_/_/&nbsp; Peace Software New Zealand Ltd&nbsp;&nbsp; Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
<br>_/&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Martin Dickson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Fax&nbsp; : +64-9-373-0401
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Product Specialist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Phone: +64-9-373-0400
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--</blockquote>
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scott whitaker wrote:

> 
> PS:  If GE is dropped do those characters for whom
> 
> a permanent greater was the only reward for the
> session get money in return?


I have only one thing to say to this.

Jesus.


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