Messages for 10 July 2001

Subject	Re: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents
From	AndrewW@datacom.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:10:45 +1200
I missed the namer conversion, but your proposal for Mind conversion is bad. Changing of (25%) EP without regards to time gives Rank 20 purification for anyone who had Rank 6 Mol Rec or Rank 10 in any 400 EM spell. This may not seem that much, but the ritual/spell time difference is one of the few rarely-tampered with balance mechanisms that stop uber-characters from forming out of the cradle. People should only get to change if they are genuinely upset about a spell's changes, in which case they transfer that EP over to a new spell (or possibly spells), keeping all changes as minimal as possible. Otherwise, some people will rework their ranking not because they were dissatisfied at the time, but because they have learnt better spells since then, etc. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [mailto:adara@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 8:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents Hi all This is your "final warning" for the closing of comments on the Namer and Mind Conversion documents. Unless someone has major problems, we will go ahead as written. Cheers Errol -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents
From	RMansfield@aj.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:45:18 +1200
This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00725EE4CC256A84_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have no problem with the 25% re-arrange but I think it should be time & EP not just EP In other cases we have allowed people to re-spend EP where the college has changed significantly, and this has been with the "re-spend time & EP" equation. Occasionally exceptions have generally been because a spell changed into a ritual. Rosemary I missed the namer conversion, but your proposal for Mind conversion is bad. Changing of (25%) EP without regards to time gives Rank 20 purification for anyone who had Rank 6 Mol Rec or Rank 10 in any 400 EM spell. This may not seem that much, but the ritual/spell time difference is one of the few rarely-tampered with balance mechanisms that stop uber-characters from forming out of the cradle. People should only get to change if they are genuinely upset about a spell's changes, in which case they transfer that EP over to a new spell (or possibly spells), keeping all changes as minimal as possible. Otherwise, some people will rework their ranking not because they were dissatisfied at the time, but because they have learnt better spells since then, etc. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [mailto:adara@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 8:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents Hi all This is your "final warning" for the closing of comments on the Namer and Mind Conversion documents. Unless someone has major problems, we will go ahead as written. Cheers Errol -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- --=_alternative 00725EE4CC256A84_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I have no problem with the 25% re-arrange but I think it should be time & EP not just EP</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">In other cases we have allowed people to re-spend EP where the college has changed significantly, and this has been with the "re-spend time & EP" equation.  Occasionally exceptions have generally been because a spell changed into a ritual.</font> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Rosemary</font> <br> <br> <br> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">I missed the namer conversion, but your proposal for Mind conversion is bad.<br> Changing of (25%) EP without regards to time gives Rank 20 purification for<br> anyone who had Rank 6 Mol Rec or Rank 10 in any 400 EM spell. This may not<br> seem that much, but the ritual/spell time difference is one of the few<br> rarely-tampered with balance mechanisms that stop uber-characters from<br> forming out of the cradle.<br> <br> People should only get to change if they are genuinely upset about a spell's<br> changes, in which case they transfer that EP over to a new spell (or<br> possibly spells), keeping all changes as minimal as possible. Otherwise,<br> some people will rework their ranking not because they were dissatisfied at<br> the time, but because they have learnt better spells since then, etc.<br> <br> <br> Andrew<br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood [mailto:adara@ihug.co.nz]<br> Sent: Monday, 9 July 2001 8:18 p.m.<br> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> Subject: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents<br> <br> <br> Hi all<br> <br> This is your "final warning" for the closing of comments on the Namer and<br> Mind Conversion documents. Unless someone has major problems, we will go<br> ahead as written.<br> <br> Cheers<br> Errol<br> <br> <br> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<br> </font> <br> <br> --=_alternative 00725EE4CC256A84_=-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents
From	martin.dickson@peace.com
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:11:52 +1200
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>I missed the namer conversion...</blockquote> For those who missed it: <p><a href="http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~apollyon/vault/namer_convert.html">Namer Conversion Proposal</a> <p><a href="http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~apollyon/vault/namer_prices.html">Namer Spell Prices Proposal</a> <p>Cheers, <br>Martin <p>-- <p> _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com <br>_/     Martin Dickson                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401 <br>       Product Specialist               Phone: +64-9-373-0400 <br> </html> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents
From	p.schmidt@xtra.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:46:26 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C10925.302BC7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can I have a quick look at the doc.. haven't seen it yet Cheers Paul ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Martin Dickson=20 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [dq] Acceptance of conversion documents "Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:=20 I missed the namer conversion... For those who missed it:=20 Namer Conversion Proposal=20 Namer Spell Prices Proposal=20 Cheers,=20 Martin=20 --=20 _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: = Martin.Dickson@peace.com=20 _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401=20 Product Specialist Phone: +64-9-373-0400=20 -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C10925.302BC7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can I have a quick look at the doc.. = haven't seen=20 it yet</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Paul</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@peace.com=20 href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 10, 2001 = 9:11=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Acceptance of = conversion documents</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>"Andrew Withy (DSL AK)" wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">I missed the namer = conversion...</BLOCKQUOTE>For those=20 who missed it:=20 <P><A=20 = href=3D"http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~apollyon/vault/namer_convert.html">N= amer=20 Conversion Proposal</A>=20 <P><A=20 = href=3D"http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~apollyon/vault/namer_prices.html">Na= mer=20 Spell Prices Proposal</A>=20 <P>Cheers, <BR>Martin=20 <P>--=20 <P> _/_/  Peace Software New Zealand Ltd   Email: = <A=20 href=3D"mailto:Martin.Dickson@peace.com">Martin.Dickson@peace.com</A>=20 <BR>_/     Martin=20 = Dickson           =        =20 Fax  : +64-9-373-0401 <BR>       = Product=20 = Specialist          &nb= sp;   =20 Phone: +64-9-373-0400 <BR>  -- to unsubscribe notify=20 mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C10925.302BC7A0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Mind College Conversion doco
From	adara@ihug.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 15:57:49 +1200
for reference here is my original post. my apologies to the list, I meant that the 25% of EP could be rearranged within the college and did not mean to allow the transferance to ritual of purification or even ritual of investment - which may be worse. Would it remedy things to require EP and Time expenditure to be conserved? Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood <adara@ihug.co.nz> To: DQ discussion <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Date: Sunday, 1 July 2001 20:28 Subject: Mind College Conversion doco >Dear all, after reasonable acknowledgements of Martin's copyrighting... > >I propose... > >Mind Conversion Document Draft 0.01 -- From Mind 1.0 to Mind v1.6 > >With the introduction of the clarified Mind college, players may wish to >convert their Mind mage characters, and this document will attempt to make >conversion as simple as possible. Conversion should be undertaken with the >assistance of a GM and will need to be verified and signed off by that GM at >the completion of conversion. The following are GM and Player guidelines >for conversion. > >General >Scope for altering characters is given so that existing characters may >partially rearrange EP spent on Mind college magics. > >Characters cannot completely restructure their character, however, as that >would provide a large benefit not offered to other colleges. >Therefore a maximum of 25% of total EP spent on Mind College talents, spells >and ritual may be reassigned, solely within the college, ignoring training >time. Any alterations beyond these limits should be run past Ian Wood. > >Should a character decide to exit the college, then they may transfer 90% of >EP so spent onto a new college, with the remaining 10% lost to the ether and >guild taxes. A 6 months 'in game time' cost applies. This 'golden parachute' >offer expires on 1 July 2003. > >Some spells have new statistics, and so character sheets and templates will >need revision (I think it is limited to Disruption, whose Base Chance is now >25%). > >Odd Stuff >mostly as is > >Non Mind Characters who gained Mind college spells (EG hypnotism), should >convert to the clarified spell. >Should a non-Mind character have TK or Mind Cloak, then they must specify >either E&E Mage Force or Mind Telekinesis, Wiccan Mind Cloak or Mind Mind >Shield. > >End Note >These guidelines are obviously not exhaustive and GMs will need to >adjudicate for fairness, intent, flavour, etc. as usual. > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Mind College Conversion doco
From	martin.dickson@peace.com
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:20:20 +1200
Hi Ian, Yes, EP _and_ Time will prevent the worst abuse of this conversion -- albeit that the converting GM should have an eye out for abuse anyway. As an aside, I think one would have to argue that Purification is within ones College... although it could be explicitly outside the scope of the conversion. Cheers, Martin -- Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood wrote: > for reference here is my original post. > > my apologies to the list, > > I meant that the 25% of EP could be rearranged within the college and did > not mean to allow the transferance to ritual of purification or even ritual > of investment - which may be worse. > > Would it remedy things to require EP and Time expenditure to be conserved? > > Ian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood <adara@ihug.co.nz> > To: DQ discussion <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > Date: Sunday, 1 July 2001 20:28 > Subject: Mind College Conversion doco > > >Dear all, after reasonable acknowledgements of Martin's copyrighting... > > > >I propose... > > > >Mind Conversion Document Draft 0.01 -- From Mind 1.0 to Mind v1.6 > > > >With the introduction of the clarified Mind college, players may wish to > >convert their Mind mage characters, and this document will attempt to make > >conversion as simple as possible. Conversion should be undertaken with the > >assistance of a GM and will need to be verified and signed off by that GM > at > >the completion of conversion. The following are GM and Player guidelines > >for conversion. > > > >General > >Scope for altering characters is given so that existing characters may > >partially rearrange EP spent on Mind college magics. > > > >Characters cannot completely restructure their character, however, as that > >would provide a large benefit not offered to other colleges. > >Therefore a maximum of 25% of total EP spent on Mind College talents, > spells > >and ritual may be reassigned, solely within the college, ignoring training > >time. Any alterations beyond these limits should be run past Ian Wood. > > > >Should a character decide to exit the college, then they may transfer 90% > of > >EP so spent onto a new college, with the remaining 10% lost to the ether > and > >guild taxes. A 6 months 'in game time' cost applies. This 'golden > parachute' > >offer expires on 1 July 2003. > > > >Some spells have new statistics, and so character sheets and templates will > >need revision (I think it is limited to Disruption, whose Base Chance is > now > >25%). > > > >Odd Stuff > >mostly as is > > > >Non Mind Characters who gained Mind college spells (EG hypnotism), should > >convert to the clarified spell. > >Should a non-Mind character have TK or Mind Cloak, then they must specify > >either E&E Mage Force or Mind Telekinesis, Wiccan Mind Cloak or Mind Mind > >Shield. > > > >End Note > >These guidelines are obviously not exhaustive and GMs will need to > >adjudicate for fairness, intent, flavour, etc. as usual. > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com _/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 Product Specialist Phone: +64-9-373-0400 -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Mind College Conversion doco
From	adara@ihug.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:09:52 +1200
thanks for the assist from Andrew and Martin et al... Purification may or may not be within the college but my interpretation of the rules is that investment is definitely within, and that changed not so long ago, so maybe SP should be conserved as well regards, Ian -----Original Message----- From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@peace.com> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2001 17:17 Subject: Re: [dq] Mind College Conversion doco >Hi Ian, > >Yes, EP _and_ Time will prevent the worst abuse of this conversion -- albeit >that the converting GM should have an eye out for abuse anyway. > >As an aside, I think one would have to argue that Purification is within ones >College... although it could be explicitly outside the scope of the conversion. > >Cheers, >Martin > >-- > >Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood wrote: > >> for reference here is my original post. >> >> my apologies to the list, >> >> I meant that the 25% of EP could be rearranged within the college and did >> not mean to allow the transferance to ritual of purification or even ritual >> of investment - which may be worse. >> >> Would it remedy things to require EP and Time expenditure to be conserved? >> >> Ian >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood <adara@ihug.co.nz> >> To: DQ discussion <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> >> Date: Sunday, 1 July 2001 20:28 >> Subject: Mind College Conversion doco >> >> >Dear all, after reasonable acknowledgements of Martin's copyrighting... >> > >> >I propose... >> > >> >Mind Conversion Document Draft 0.01 -- From Mind 1.0 to Mind v1.6 >> > >> >With the introduction of the clarified Mind college, players may wish to >> >convert their Mind mage characters, and this document will attempt to make >> >conversion as simple as possible. Conversion should be undertaken with the >> >assistance of a GM and will need to be verified and signed off by that GM >> at >> >the completion of conversion. The following are GM and Player guidelines >> >for conversion. >> > >> >General >> >Scope for altering characters is given so that existing characters may >> >partially rearrange EP spent on Mind college magics. >> > >> >Characters cannot completely restructure their character, however, as that >> >would provide a large benefit not offered to other colleges. >> >Therefore a maximum of 25% of total EP spent on Mind College talents, >> spells >> >and ritual may be reassigned, solely within the college, ignoring training >> >time. Any alterations beyond these limits should be run past Ian Wood. >> > >> >Should a character decide to exit the college, then they may transfer 90% >> of >> >EP so spent onto a new college, with the remaining 10% lost to the ether >> and >> >guild taxes. A 6 months 'in game time' cost applies. This 'golden >> parachute' >> >offer expires on 1 July 2003. >> > >> >Some spells have new statistics, and so character sheets and templates will >> >need revision (I think it is limited to Disruption, whose Base Chance is >> now >> >25%). >> > >> >Odd Stuff >> >mostly as is >> > >> >Non Mind Characters who gained Mind college spells (EG hypnotism), should >> >convert to the clarified spell. >> >Should a non-Mind character have TK or Mind Cloak, then they must specify >> >either E&E Mage Force or Mind Telekinesis, Wiccan Mind Cloak or Mind Mind >> >Shield. >> > >> >End Note >> >These guidelines are obviously not exhaustive and GMs will need to >> >adjudicate for fairness, intent, flavour, etc. as usual. >> > >> > >> >> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > >-- > > _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com >_/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 > Product Specialist Phone: +64-9-373-0400 > > >-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Mind College Conversion doco
From	jimarona@ihug.co.nz
Date	Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:36:30 GMT
Actually, I don't think it's any kind of problem at all. The Mind College is the only College with a 1000 EM spell, talent or ritual. The fact that a Mind Mage MIGHT be able to turn a rank 6 spell into a rank 20 Ritual. The fact is that it's an uncommon spell, it's something that Mind Mages have to think carefully about before learning because of the burden it puts on their character's development. Personally, I think worrying about the ability of Mind Mages to do this is a bit of a problem that isn't really a problem. It's not like Mind Mages don't sit around contemplating their navels, for endless weeks, after they've spent all of their XP from the previous campaign. > thanks for the assist from Andrew and Martin et al... > > Purification may or may not be within the college but my interpretation of > the rules is that investment is definitely within, and that changed not so > long ago, so maybe SP should be conserved as well > > regards, Ian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@peace.com> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > Date: Tuesday, 10 July 2001 17:17 > Subject: Re: [dq] Mind College Conversion doco > > > >Hi Ian, > > > >Yes, EP _and_ Time will prevent the worst abuse of this conversion -- > albeit > >that the converting GM should have an eye out for abuse anyway. > > > >As an aside, I think one would have to argue that Purification is within > ones > >College... although it could be explicitly outside the scope of the > conversion. > > > >Cheers, > >Martin > > > >-- > > > >Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood wrote: > > > >> for reference here is my original post. > >> > >> my apologies to the list, > >> > >> I meant that the 25% of EP could be rearranged within the college and did > >> not mean to allow the transferance to ritual of purification or even > ritual > >> of investment - which may be worse. > >> > >> Would it remedy things to require EP and Time expenditure to be > conserved? > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood <adara@ihug.co.nz> > >> To: DQ discussion <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > >> Date: Sunday, 1 July 2001 20:28 > >> Subject: Mind College Conversion doco > >> > >> >Dear all, after reasonable acknowledgements of Martin's copyrighting... > >> > > >> >I propose... > >> > > >> >Mind Conversion Document Draft 0.01 -- From Mind 1.0 to Mind v1.6 > >> > > >> >With the introduction of the clarified Mind college, players may wish to > >> >convert their Mind mage characters, and this document will attempt to > make > >> >conversion as simple as possible. Conversion should be undertaken with > the > >> >assistance of a GM and will need to be verified and signed off by that > GM > >> at > >> >the completion of conversion. The following are GM and Player > guidelines > >> >for conversion. > >> > > >> >General > >> >Scope for altering characters is given so that existing characters may > >> >partially rearrange EP spent on Mind college magics. > >> > > >> >Characters cannot completely restructure their character, however, as > that > >> >would provide a large benefit not offered to other colleges. > >> >Therefore a maximum of 25% of total EP spent on Mind College talents, > >> spells > >> >and ritual may be reassigned, solely within the college, ignoring > training > >> >time. Any alterations beyond these limits should be run past Ian Wood. > >> > > >> >Should a character decide to exit the college, then they may transfer > 90% > >> of > >> >EP so spent onto a new college, with the remaining 10% lost to the ether > >> and > >> >guild taxes. A 6 months 'in game time' cost applies. This 'golden > >> parachute' > >> >offer expires on 1 July 2003. > >> > > >> >Some spells have new statistics, and so character sheets and templates > will > >> >need revision (I think it is limited to Disruption, whose Base Chance is > >> now > >> >25%). > >> > > >> >Odd Stuff > >> >mostly as is > >> > > >> >Non Mind Characters who gained Mind college spells (EG hypnotism), > should > >> >convert to the clarified spell. > >> >Should a non-Mind character have TK or Mind Cloak, then they must > specify > >> >either E&E Mage Force or Mind Telekinesis, Wiccan Mind Cloak or Mind > Mind > >> >Shield. > >> > > >> >End Note > >> >These guidelines are obviously not exhaustive and GMs will need to > >> >adjudicate for fairness, intent, flavour, etc. as usual. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > >-- > > > > _/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com > >_/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401 > > Product Specialist Phone: +64-9-373-0400 > > > > > >-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --