At 22:38 21/07/01 +1200, you wrote:
>The spell has been in it's current form 5 or 6 years now IIRC and there 
>have been
>no compalints about it.

All I can say is that there has been a fair bit of comment on the spell 
recently, although obviously you haven't heard it. The version I posted 
came out of a long discussion with Jason and various others. Why the flaws 
in the spell description didn't show up earlier I don't know. Perhaps it 
was assumed that the spell worked one way, when If you read it carefully it 
clearly doesn't.

Jacqui


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I like the idea of windstorm being weakened so that it works exactly as is
now if you try to move, but otherwise you can stand and do stuff (I think
that's the summary of Jacqui's rewording). 

I've felt this spell is too tough for a EM 200 spell for a while now.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: Jacqui Smith [mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2001 4:28 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Windstorm


Windstorm (S-16)
Range: 30 feet + 30 / Rank
Duration: 10 seconds + 10 / Rank
Experience Multiple: 200
Base Chance: 40%
Resist: None
Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
Target: Area
Effects: The Adept creates a windstorm of Force 9 centred on the Adept and 
extending out to the full range of the spell. Once cast the Windstorm will 
not move. The winds in the area of a windstorm are random and violent, they 
do not prevail in a particular direction. All entities within this area 
except the Adept and those in the same hex must check against 2 ? (Physical 
Strength + Agility) - 2 ? Rank, every pulse, to regain their feet and/or 
remain upright. Every time an entity within the area falls prone, they take 
[D - 2]
damage. This damage is physical. For the duration of this spell they have 
their TMR halved. All entities attempting to use missile or thrown weapons 
through or inside the area of effect have their Base Chance reduced by 5 
per every 2 hexes of Windstorm travelled through.

The "we all fall down spell". Against an easily achievable (EM=200) Rank 10 
in the spell, with average strength and agility, say a total of 30, a 
character will fall down on a roll of 40 or worse, take damage, and have to 
do it again. A character with good stats, total 40, will fall down on 60 or 
worse. To make matters worse, consider what happens when the spell is cast 
on sand or snow, ruining visibility as well. We won't mention the huge area 
of effect. 330ft radius at rank 10!
The problems with this spell have been exacerbated with the decision to 
prevent mages from casting in a prone position. This means the only real 
way to combat the Air mage is to crawl close enough and grapple!

I'm going to suggest that this spell be modified as follows:

Windstorm (S-16)
Range: 30 feet + 5/Rank (so it doesn't take out entire armies)
Duration: Concentration; Maximum of 10 seconds + 10 / Rank (so that if you 
stun the adept it goes away)
Experience Multiple: 200
Base Chance: 40% (perhaps this should be reduced)
Resist: None
Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
Target: Area
Effects: The Adept creates a windstorm of Force 9 centred on the Adept and 
extending out to the full range of the spell. Once cast the Windstorm will 
not move. The winds in the area of a windstorm are random and violent, they 
do not prevail in a particular direction. All entities within this area 
except the Adept and those in the same hex must check against 2 ? (Physical 
Strength + Agility) - 2 ? Rank, every pulse, to move from hex to hex, or 
engage in melee combat. If an entity fails this check, it falls prone. 
Every time an entity within the area falls prone, they take [D - 4] damage. 
This damage is physical. For the duration of this spell these entities have 
their normal TMR halved (crawling is unaffected). All entities attempting 
to use missile or thrown weapons through or inside the area of effect have 
their Base Chance reduced by 5 per every 2 hexes of Windstorm travelled 
through. Any entity other than the adept attempting to cast a spell within 
the area must make a concentration check.

Now, if you stay put you can act, even though you're penalised when it 
comes to missiles and spells. Try and move, though, and the falling down 
still happens.


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Those who fail may only take pass actions - which means moving 2 TMR, not
full movement. Many people say this is crawling.
This is almost the same speed of movement as a slowed person:

(ignoring dwarves/elves)
AG	2 pass	TMR
=====================
3-4	2		2
5-8	2		3
9-12	4		4
13-17	4		5
18-21	4		6
22-25	6		7
26	8		8

Failing to resist has no advantage unless you have to move the very next
pulse, and that can be avoided by allowing slowed people to move 1/2 TMR
each pulse rather than TMR every second pulse - which is GM style, not a
rule.

Everyone should try to leave the area of effect of agony if they have the
choice, but resisting gives you options to defend/attack on the way out, or
to be heroic and press on in to the necro.

Of course, you could make those who failed to resist Slowed AND take pass
actions, but then Agony becomes even less fun for those players whose
character resisted - they now get to crawl once an hour, not twice.

Its a tough spell for its EM, but PCs don't get to cast it often because the
party isn't immune - its a good EM for PC Necros, and who cares about the EM
for NPC Necros?.

Hmm - that weakens my windstorm argument of 15 minutes ago. <remove foot
from mouth>

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacqui Smith [mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz]
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2001 4:22 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Agony 


The current write-up of Agony is as follows:

<snip>
Entities who fail to resist may only take Pass actions for the duration of
the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of effect. Entities who
successfully resist reduce all Strike Chances by 30, and take twice as long
to perform any action.


The bizarre thing about this spell is the number of people you find 
deliberately failing to resist - because then they can run away! At full 
TMR and not slowed. Once out of range they can shoot back with relative 
impunity. Of course those who did resist have probably been killed by the 
necromancer's undead minions - who, of course, do not feel pain, aren't 
slowed, and don't have 30% off their strike chances. Heroic? Not!


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At 16:22 21/07/01 +1200, you wrote:
>The current write-up of Agony is as follows:
[snip]
>Entities who fail to resist may only take Pass actions for the duration 
>of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of effect. 

>The bizarre thing about this spell is the number of people you find 
>deliberately failing to resist - because then they can run away! At full 
>TMR and not slowed.

This is not correct.  Under section 3.6 "Unengaged Actions" it states :
"Pass - An unengaged figure may move two hexes and change facing while
performing a pass action".

What makes you think that they can move full TMR ?


>Once out of range they can shoot back with relative impunity.

Section 7.8 "Magic Resistance" states under "Passive Resistance" :
"If an entity re-encounters an area effect magic, they must re-resist,
whether they successfully resisted last time or not."

Hence, they may have to spend a few pulses on the edge crossing in and out
before they successfully resist.

Then they are in the same state as the people who successfully resisted,
only quite some distance from the action.  To return to where they were is
going to take awhile at half TMR since all actions (such as Move) take
twice as long to perform.

This does not seem to be anything like be able to "shoot back with relative
impunity".

Brent.


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