I think Jacqui meant 'shoot back' to mean 'return fire' as in fire arrows or
magical bolts, rather than 'run back'.

at least that was how I read it.

Agree with the full TMR of 'Two hexes' for pass actions. <g>

OTP, I don't like spells that require informatino to be passed back, IE rank
in spell to subtract from IV.

Ian

PS - I beleive telepathy is the only exceptino  to the resist each time you
encounter it rule/guideline/concept.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Jackson <salient@kcbbs.gen.nz>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date: Sunday, 22 July 2001 23:02
Subject: Re: [dq] Agony


>At 16:22 21/07/01 +1200, you wrote:
>>The current write-up of Agony is as follows:
>[snip]
>>Entities who fail to resist may only take Pass actions for the duration
>>of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of effect.
>
>>The bizarre thing about this spell is the number of people you find
>>deliberately failing to resist - because then they can run away! At full
>>TMR and not slowed.
>
>This is not correct.  Under section 3.6 "Unengaged Actions" it states :
>"Pass - An unengaged figure may move two hexes and change facing while
>performing a pass action".
>
>What makes you think that they can move full TMR ?
>
>
>>Once out of range they can shoot back with relative impunity.
>
>Section 7.8 "Magic Resistance" states under "Passive Resistance" :
>"If an entity re-encounters an area effect magic, they must re-resist,
>whether they successfully resisted last time or not."
>
>Hence, they may have to spend a few pulses on the edge crossing in and out
>before they successfully resist.
>
>Then they are in the same state as the people who successfully resisted,
>only quite some distance from the action.  To return to where they were is
>going to take awhile at half TMR since all actions (such as Move) take
>twice as long to perform.
>
>This does not seem to be anything like be able to "shoot back with relative
>impunity".
>
>Brent.
>
>
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>
>


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And Snowball, Waterspout - but how often do people get Waterspouted ?

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Wood [mailto:adara@ihug.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 23 July 2001 8:43 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Agony 

Ian

PS - I beleive telepathy is the only exceptino  to the resist each time you
encounter it rule/guideline/concept.


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At 17:32 22/07/01 +1200, you wrote:
>Those who fail may only take pass actions - which means moving 2 TMR, not
>full movement. Many people say this is crawling.

You're right - I was misinformed and should have checked the specific rule 
in the book myself. Although I have to say that the rule on pass actions is 
a little confusing, since it actually refers to a class of actions which 
may be taken in conjunction with moving two hexes, not simply moving 2 
hexes. Things like getting up, changing weapons and so on.

Crawling is very definitely not the same as taking pass actions.

Jacqui


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At 08:42 23/07/01 +1200, you wrote:
>I think Jacqui meant 'shoot back' to mean 'return fire' as in fire arrows or
>magical bolts, rather than 'run back'.
>
>at least that was how I read it.

And that was what I meant. The possible misinterpretation hadn't occurred 
to me.

>Agree with the full TMR of 'Two hexes' for pass actions. <g>

It's more like two hexes + some other non-combat thing. Screaming is free.

>OTP, I don't like spells that require informatino to be passed back, IE rank
>in spell to subtract from IV.

Okay, maybe subtract 10 if you resist, 20 if you don't?

Jacqui


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Jacqui proposed agony spell.

Agony (S-1)
Range: 15 feet + 5/Rank
Duration: Concentration; maximum of 10 seconds + 10 / Rank
Experience Multiple: 350
Base Chance: 10%
Resist: Active, Passive
Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
Target: Area
Effects: This spell causes all entities in the affected area, except the
Adept, to suffer extreme agony.
Entities who fail to resist must reduce their initiative by twice the rank
of the spell, and make a once times willpower check to take any action for
the duration of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of
effect.
Entities who successfully resist must reduce their initiative by the rank
of the spell, and make a three times willpower check to perform any action
for the duration of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of
effect.
Mind Mages gain a bonus to these willpower checks equal to 10% + 2 × Rank
with their Talent of Resisting Pain.

William's (long winded) reply

This version makes Agony ineffectual at high levels where the intended
targets get multiple rolls, correct counterspells,  can pass over effects or
are simply immune. They will resist and then the high WP, r20 greater cuts
in and except for 96-00 they will make all their actions. This is equally
true for NPCs as well as PCs.

For those lesser mortals the spell is simply brutal, esp. for those sub WP
17 dweebs who if even they resist are worse than slowed. If they fail they
just get to (mostly) fail x1 WP checks each pulse. As opposed to pass
actions which (as most forget) allow for the preparing of healing potions,
feeding potions to downed characters and activating wierdo items that all
PCs seem to have. They also get to make a short pithy statement like;

"I say, this hurts, what!"

Or not, as the case may be.

A better effect would be to reduce strike/cast chances by 10 (+1/Rnk) and
breaks concentration to all affected and those who fail to resist lose 1(+1
for every 2 full ranks) to MD and AG. Things of evil with Resist Pain reduce
the rank bonus of the spell by their own rank. If the thing of evil has more
Resist Pain ranks than the rank of the agony it may continue in it's foul
deeds unimpaired. To perform an extra action in the pulse requires a WP
check (of some sort being Rank/Resistance dependant). On a X2/x3 effect
multiply the penaties by  x1.5/x2 respectivly as an option to
duration/range/resistance.

This makes agony a dangerous spell to have or to fear as nobody likes losing
Strike/Spell chances. Failing to resist really ruins your day esp. if your
up against a tough necromancer. At R10 you lose 6 MD/AG which means you
probably can't use your weapon, have lost 6 IV, 2 TMR and lose extra hexes
of movement on pass actions. However (and this is important for players) you
still get an action each pulse. You may lose the extra one (or two) but that
is better than not getting to act at all. Then it is up to the character
whether they bear it thrash the necro or run (stagger?) for the hills before
whipping out the Whitefire investeds.


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hi there William, I think I got most of what you wrote,

can you write it up as a spell effect?

cheers Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Dworkin <dworkin@ihug.co.nz>
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Date: Monday, 23 July 2001 11:27
Subject: Re: [dq] Agony


>Jacqui proposed agony spell.
>
>Agony (S-1)
>Range: 15 feet + 5/Rank
>Duration: Concentration; maximum of 10 seconds + 10 / Rank
>Experience Multiple: 350
>Base Chance: 10%
>Resist: Active, Passive
>Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
>Target: Area
>Effects: This spell causes all entities in the affected area, except the
>Adept, to suffer extreme agony.
>Entities who fail to resist must reduce their initiative by twice the rank
>of the spell, and make a once times willpower check to take any action for
>the duration of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of
>effect.
>Entities who successfully resist must reduce their initiative by the rank
>of the spell, and make a three times willpower check to perform any action
>for the duration of the spell, or until such time as they leave the area of
>effect.
>Mind Mages gain a bonus to these willpower checks equal to 10% + 2 × Rank
>with their Talent of Resisting Pain.
>
>William's (long winded) reply
>
>This version makes Agony ineffectual at high levels where the intended
>targets get multiple rolls, correct counterspells,  can pass over effects
or
>are simply immune. They will resist and then the high WP, r20 greater cuts
>in and except for 96-00 they will make all their actions. This is equally
>true for NPCs as well as PCs.
>
>For those lesser mortals the spell is simply brutal, esp. for those sub WP
>17 dweebs who if even they resist are worse than slowed. If they fail they
>just get to (mostly) fail x1 WP checks each pulse. As opposed to pass
>actions which (as most forget) allow for the preparing of healing potions,
>feeding potions to downed characters and activating wierdo items that all
>PCs seem to have. They also get to make a short pithy statement like;
>
>"I say, this hurts, what!"
>
>Or not, as the case may be.
>
>A better effect would be to reduce strike/cast chances by 10 (+1/Rnk) and
>breaks concentration to all affected and those who fail to resist lose 1(+1
>for every 2 full ranks) to MD and AG. Things of evil with Resist Pain
reduce
>the rank bonus of the spell by their own rank. If the thing of evil has
more
>Resist Pain ranks than the rank of the agony it may continue in it's foul
>deeds unimpaired. To perform an extra action in the pulse requires a WP
>check (of some sort being Rank/Resistance dependant). On a X2/x3 effect
>multiply the penaties by  x1.5/x2 respectivly as an option to
>duration/range/resistance.
>
>This makes agony a dangerous spell to have or to fear as nobody likes
losing
>Strike/Spell chances. Failing to resist really ruins your day esp. if your
>up against a tough necromancer. At R10 you lose 6 MD/AG which means you
>probably can't use your weapon, have lost 6 IV, 2 TMR and lose extra hexes
>of movement on pass actions. However (and this is important for players)
you
>still get an action each pulse. You may lose the extra one (or two) but
that
>is better than not getting to act at all. Then it is up to the character
>whether they bear it thrash the necro or run (stagger?) for the hills
before
>whipping out the Whitefire investeds.
>
>
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>
>


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