An issue occurred last night during a game - when does a defensive
withdrawal occur? Some people play that it happens on your engaged
initiative, some that it happens after the opponent has acted (last in the
melee).

The new combat rules treat it like any other action (i.e. on your
initiative), because I didn't know about the other interpretation when I
rewrote them. I'm particularly interested in how people played withdrawal
timing historically; if the delayed withdrawal is desirable/correct; and if
so, whether we should reintroduce it.

Andrew


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On Wednesday, October 24, 2001, at 10:53 , Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:

> An issue occurred last night during a game - when does a defensive
> withdrawal occur? Some people play that it happens on your engaged
> initiative, some that it happens after the opponent has acted (last in 
> the
> melee).
>
> The new combat rules treat it like any other action (i.e. on your
> initiative), because I didn't know about the other interpretation when I
> rewrote them. I'm particularly interested in how people played 
> withdrawal
> timing historically; if the delayed withdrawal is desirable/correct; 
> and if
> so, whether we should reintroduce it.

Well it can be useful to make the withdraw later - but can't you delay 
your action if you are faster than your opponent? If you act first and 
must withdraw first then it can go something like this:

Pulse 1:

your action: withdraw one hex
their action: step and attack

Pulse 2:

your action: withdraw one hex
their action: step and attack

which doesn't achieve much except that you get a bonus to defense. There 
are situations when this might be what you want. But let's examine how 
it goes when you withdraw last:

Pulse 1:

their action: attack you
your action: withdraw one hex

Pulse 2:

Hopefully you are both now unengaged (if they are still engaged they can 
step and attack before you run away). If you win unengaged initiative:

your action: full movement
their action: full movement (unless they have 1 more TMR than you and 
are wielding a pole weapon, in which case they can charge and attack).

  if you lose unengaged initiative (or they are still engaged) it goes:

their action: step and attack
your action: withdraw one hex

Personally I would prefer that the withdraw goes on your action, but you 
can delay your action to occur after theirs if you wish.

clare


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(Started before Clare's useful post)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> 
> An issue occurred last night during a game - when does a defensive
> withdrawal occur? Some people play that it happens on your engaged
> initiative, some that it happens after the opponent has acted 
> (last in the
> melee).
> 

Rules quote below [0] for those that don't have it to hand.

As written, you have the option to delay your action if you are faster (I
assume the withdrawer had the higher initiative in this case?)[1]


Are you querying if faster engaged figures should have the _option_ to
withdraw before they get attacked in that round, rather than be forced to
wait until the after their opponent has a strike before increasing their
defence and stepping back? See Clare's description of sequence (increased
defence stays in place until your next action presumably [2])

The faster person having the choice makes sense to me. 

Another way to play it would be 

1. increase defence (if you are faster)
2. opponent can attack
3. you can move.

Seems too messy to bother with.

Cheers
Errol

[0]"Defensive Withdraw
An engaged figure may solely defend, increasing
their defence by 20. They may then move one hex
and change facing. They may freely leave the Melee
Zone of any opponent, but may not move into that
opponent's rear hex."

'Rear hex' isn't defined in our rulebook. It is the single hex directly
behind you? (from memory of diagram in Book 2).
Minor point, the +20 to defence _isn't_ in 57.3 Strike Chance Modifiers
Table

[1]"Engaged Initiative 

A figure's engaged Initiative
Value is ...
In each Engagement, figures with faster initiative
may choose to act after figures with lower initiative,
but all engaged Actions must be resolved before any
unengaged Actions. "

[2]"When a figure chooses an Action, they are assumed
to be performing that Action until they start a new
action or are stunned. "


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On Wednesday, October 24, 2001, at 11:45 , Errol Cavit wrote:

> 'Rear hex' isn't defined in our rulebook. It is the single hex directly
> behind you? (from memory of diagram in Book 2).
> Minor point, the +20 to defence _isn't_ in 57.3 Strike Chance Modifiers
> Table

I believe in DQ2 there were pretty piccies of figures with the various 
types of hexes mapped out. One hex creatures have three front hexes and 
three rear hexes and no flank hexes.

clare

--
So long and thanks for all the fish


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