| Subject | Re: [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions |
|---|---|
| From | ecavit@tranzrail.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:12:42 +1300 |
> -----Original Message----- > From: jimarona@ihug.co.nz [mailto:jimarona@ihug.co.nz] > I think the idea that it > didn't stack with > darkness mods was a decision generally accepted, but whether > or not it was > actually written down anywhere is a mystery, I don't think it needs to be, it follows quite logically from the rules as given, while allowing for the GM's desired flavour/balancing. The most that might be required is some kind of pointer in the spell description to the lighting mods for combat (normally these only apply to a few members of low parties in any case). > > Consider that both Dark AND Shadow Celestials get ShadowForm. > We might > reasonably believe that the spell might behave differently. > > The only difference in spells within each of the Light-aligned and Dark-aligned 'halfs' is the seperate spells available as G-9 and S-10 for each of the 4 divisions. No other spell differentiates within the half. I see no reason to start doing so just because someone had a query on one spell. The main differentiation between branches within a half is in the lighting mods to cast chances. Cheers Errol -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions |
|---|---|
| From | flamis@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:18:47 +1300 |
My low-ish party were wandering around a dungeon full of goblins in near absolute darkness, using witchsight to see with. They wanted to use Shadowform for defence, but I ruled that under those conditions the spell would be ineffective - shifting shadows won't make you harder to target when everything around you is dark. Some clarification: The bestiary is somewhat unclear about goblins - it states that they can "see in the dark". Given the fact that they are in the same category as orcs, I thought that this was probably some form of infravision. Now, as I see it, celestial spells are cold - they don't generate heat, because that's a fire mage thing. So the goblins, using their heat vision in the dark, aren't confused by shadows they can't see. Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions |
|---|---|
| From | stephenm@qed.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:58:56 +1300 |
Following on from your assumptions to an alternate conclusion... The cold shadows occlude the heat of the bodies and make them harder to target for goblins. Or keeping it simple, Goblins can see in the dark and use vision as their primary targetting sense so Shadowform has full effect. -----Original Message----- From: Jacqui Smith [mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2001 3:19 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions My low-ish party were wandering around a dungeon full of goblins in near absolute darkness, using witchsight to see with. They wanted to use Shadowform for defence, but I ruled that under those conditions the spell would be ineffective - shifting shadows won't make you harder to target when everything around you is dark. Some clarification: The bestiary is somewhat unclear about goblins - it states that they can "see in the dark". Given the fact that they are in the same category as orcs, I thought that this was probably some form of infravision. Now, as I see it, celestial spells are cold - they don't generate heat, because that's a fire mage thing. So the goblins, using their heat vision in the dark, aren't confused by shadows they can't see. Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions |
|---|---|
| From | AndrewW@datacom.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:11:31 +1300 |
Hobbits, Orcs & Giants, all with infravision, get normal penalties when hitting shadowformed creatures. Be careful when using "logic" that would affect Player Character races. How one balances monsters is the GMs domain, but if they use logic from properties that PCs have as well, unfortunate consequences can occur. I understand that some people play that some undead (e.g. skeletons - look, no eyes) sense lifeforce, and don't see. These creatures wouldn't be affected by blindness, darkness, invis or shadowform. Likewise, PC skeletons would not be affected by shadowform. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Jacqui Smith [mailto:flamis@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 22 November 2001 3:19 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Celestial defence spells and lighting conditions My low-ish party were wandering around a dungeon full of goblins in near absolute darkness, using witchsight to see with. They wanted to use Shadowform for defence, but I ruled that under those conditions the spell would be ineffective - shifting shadows won't make you harder to target when everything around you is dark. Some clarification: The bestiary is somewhat unclear about goblins - it states that they can "see in the dark". Given the fact that they are in the same category as orcs, I thought that this was probably some form of infravision. Now, as I see it, celestial spells are cold - they don't generate heat, because that's a fire mage thing. So the goblins, using their heat vision in the dark, aren't confused by shadows they can't see. Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | flamis@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:14:38 +1300 |
--=====================_583306402==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I decided some time ago that the principal villain in my current adventure would be a Greater Summoner. I was tired of necromancers and wiccans and wanted to try something different. Last weekend I decided to start on his character sheet (I usually do full a character sheet for the main bad guy - they're complex enough to need it), and started wading into the morass that is Greater Summoner. And promptly decided to rewrite the College. There was a unbelievable amount of repetition and excessively complex prose. I also discovered that they either can't do much at all, or are unbelievably tough. There was no such thing as a "lesser Greater Summoner" suitable as opposition for a low-medium party. Here's the result. I'm presenting this mainly for your interest and comment, but I think its going to be a lot more interesting to GM. The main changes: 1. Adding appropriate talents 2. Adding spells to summon non-sentient extra-planar creatures 3. Adding a ritual to summon lesser devils 4. Condensing the seven similar Special Knowledge rituals into one high EM ritual. 5. Deleting lots and lots of excess verbiage and repetition. 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| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | martin.dickson@peace.com |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:36:45 +1300 |
Jacqui Smith wrote:
> There was a unbelievable amount of repetition and excessively complex prose.
SPI was not renowned for short, punchy rules. :)
> I also discovered that they either can't do much at all, or are unbelievably
> tough.
The main reason there are no PC summoners (more correctly; why it really
doesn't work as a PC college). Either the bunny summoner gets dead, or very
tough.
> Here's the result. I'm presenting this mainly for your interest and comment,
> but I think its going to be a lot more interesting to GM.
Well... since you asked for comment... :) (...and from a very quick
read...)
> The main changes:
> 1. Adding appropriate talents
Looks good.
> 2. Adding spells to summon non-sentient extra-planar creatures
Excellent. Particularly like the vermin and "Mosquitos from Hell".
> 3. Adding a ritual to summon lesser devils
Ummm... there's not much difference between an Imp and a 1/2 devil -- except
that Imps had a bestiary listing (well in the old Summoner) and 1/2 devils
didn't getting one line in Black college. Personally, I'd drop 1/2 devils per
se... can't see they add much.
> 4. Condensing the seven similar Special Knowledge rituals into one high EM
> ritual.
Mmmm... not so sure this is good -- or more importantly, that it adds to
getting medium power summoners. I notice you need True name and that does
sound like a good plan... that means the bunny summoner can't summon anyone,
that demons are going to be mighty protective of their names, that you can give
a name as treasure, etc, etc.
Just not convinced that 1 ritual is the way to go.
> 5. Deleting lots and lots of excess verbiage and repetition.
Excellent.
One other suggestion -- make Hero summoning work on game world history/other
places in game world universe rather than real-world mythology. Perhaps also
allow summoning dead heroes (or perhaps summoning other reality shadows of them
or whatever if that is too Necro-y). IMO it is nicer in Alusia to allow the
summoning of Sigismund the Pious, last king of the Old Western Kingdom than
either Ulysses or Atom Ant.
Regards,
Martin
--
_/_/ Peace Software New Zealand Ltd Email: Martin.Dickson@peace.com
_/ Martin Dickson Fax : +64-9-373-0401
Product Specialist Phone: +64-9-373-0400
-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
| |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | jimarona@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:39:09 +1300 |
The nature of Summoners is subject to a great deal of speculation. Of all the colleges, they are the least defined, and they have the greatest internal rationalisations for abilities not covered in the rule book. They can have gifts granted to them by the entities that they deal with. Or they might be able to make use of the abilities of one or more entities that they summon. Whenever setting a Summoner as an NPC, the players can reasonably expect non standard magic. If there's a lot of non standard magic, then it may even act as a clue that there's a Summoner about, if they didn't already know. Although, in my playing experience, Summoners have never been shy about telling you the horrible things they can do to you. As far as Jacqui's college of Greater Summonings is concerned...Well...If someone wants to use it, I don't see a problem with it. I, on the other hand prefer to keep their abilities individual, mysterious, and nasty. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqui Smith" <flamis@ihug.co.nz> To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: [dq] Summoning > I decided some time ago that the principal villain in my current adventure > would be a Greater Summoner. I was tired of necromancers and wiccans and > wanted to try something different. Last weekend I decided to start on his > character sheet (I usually do full a character sheet for the main bad guy - > they're complex enough to need it), and started wading into the morass that > is Greater Summoner. > And promptly decided to rewrite the College. There was a unbelievable > amount of repetition and excessively complex prose. I also discovered that > they either can't do much at all, or are unbelievably tough. There was no > such thing as a "lesser Greater Summoner" suitable as opposition for a > low-medium party. > > Here's the result. I'm presenting this mainly for your interest and > comment, but I think its going to be a lot more interesting to GM. > > The main changes: > 1. Adding appropriate talents > 2. Adding spells to summon non-sentient extra-planar creatures > 3. Adding a ritual to summon lesser devils > 4. Condensing the seven similar Special Knowledge rituals into one high EM > ritual. > 5. Deleting lots and lots of excess verbiage and repetition. > > Jacqui > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | kharsis@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:59:42 +1300 |
--------------6B687F5560BD1D00301DCBDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is the point of rewriting Greater Summoner? It was decided a long time ago that they were'nt available as PC's. The current write up is more than adeqaute for GM's to use. It is an unecessary change and more importantly there is no need to change it. Scott --------------6B687F5560BD1D00301DCBDB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <p>What is the point of rewriting Greater Summoner? <p>It was decided a long time ago that they were'nt available as PC's. <p>The current write up is more than adeqaute for GM's to use. <p>It is an unecessary change and more importantly <b>there is no need to change it.</b> <br><b></b> <b></b> <p><b>Scott</b></html> --------------6B687F5560BD1D00301DCBDB-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | flamis@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:03:31 +1300 |
At 17:36 22/11/01 +1300, you wrote: >The main reason there are no PC summoners (more correctly; why it really >doesn't work as a PC college). Either the bunny summoner gets dead, or very >tough. Which makes it difficult to justify their existence. They must live very sheltered lives - until they turn into horrifying god-botherers. > > Here's the result. I'm presenting this mainly for your interest and > comment, > > but I think its going to be a lot more interesting to GM. > >Well... since you asked for comment... :) (...and from a very quick >read...) > > > The main changes: > > 1. Adding appropriate talents > >Looks good. > > > 2. Adding spells to summon non-sentient extra-planar creatures > >Excellent. Particularly like the vermin and "Mosquitos from Hell". > > > 3. Adding a ritual to summon lesser devils > >Ummm... there's not much difference between an Imp and a 1/2 devil -- except >that Imps had a bestiary listing (well in the old Summoner) and 1/2 devils >didn't getting one line in Black college. Personally, I'd drop 1/2 devils per >se... can't see they add much. This I can do. My intention here was to allow the summoning of various types of minor devils - whatever the GM's imagination can cook up - or dig out of sources such as the D&D Monster Manuals. > > 4. Condensing the seven similar Special Knowledge rituals into one high EM > > ritual. > >Mmmm... not so sure this is good -- or more importantly, that it adds to >getting medium power summoners. I notice you need True name and that does >sound like a good plan... that means the bunny summoner can't summon anyone, >that demons are going to be mighty protective of their names, that you can >give >a name as treasure, etc, etc. >Just not convinced that 1 ritual is the way to go. It was an attempt at condensing a whole lot of text - but I can easily see a way to return to multiple rituals by simply stating that the different Ranks of Greater Demon are learned separately at whatever EM. That would work. > > 5. Deleting lots and lots of excess verbiage and repetition. > >Excellent. > >One other suggestion -- make Hero summoning work on game world history/other >places in game world universe rather than real-world mythology. Perhaps also >allow summoning dead heroes (or perhaps summoning other reality shadows of >them >or whatever if that is too Necro-y). IMO it is nicer in Alusia to allow the >summoning of Sigismund the Pious, last king of the Old Western Kingdom than >either Ulysses or Atom Ant. I was trying to get away from the Atom Ant possibility - again an easy fix. Thank you for your comments. Very constructive. I think I'm almost at the point of having a Summoner College which I feel that I can use as a GM at relatively low levels. Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | flamis@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:47:51 +1300 |
At 17:59 22/11/01 +1300, you wrote: > > >What is the point of rewriting Greater Summoner? > >It was decided a long time ago that they were'nt available as PC's. > >The current write up is more than adeqaute for GM's to use. I felt otherwise as soon I tried to create a Summoner as a villain for a low level party. The current write-up is really badly written, it doesn't work at all for lower level Summoners, and I didn't want to use it. So I did some work on it. For me. Jacqui -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |
| Subject | Re: [dq] Summoning |
|---|---|
| From | jimarona@ihug.co.nz |
| Date | Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:42:21 +1300 |
Sounds fine to me. I don't know that I would put that much work into it, myself...DM's are subject to the temptation to fiddle with things too much, when they've got time on their hands. While it's not a problem in and of itself, it's an example of over preparation...And, over preparation makes you assume that your players understand the underpinnings of your world, and the implications of those underpinnings. On the other hand, preparation gives your game depth, as well.... Horses for courses. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacqui Smith" <flamis@ihug.co.nz> To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [dq] Summoning > At 17:59 22/11/01 +1300, you wrote: > > > > > >What is the point of rewriting Greater Summoner? > > > >It was decided a long time ago that they were'nt available as PC's. > > > >The current write up is more than adeqaute for GM's to use. > > I felt otherwise as soon I tried to create a Summoner as a villain for a > low level party. The current write-up is really badly written, it doesn't > work at all for lower level Summoners, and I didn't want to use it. So I > did some work on it. For me. > > Jacqui > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- | |