Is it not so much how you acquire the skill 
ie You had a family friend teach you to paint
but rather how you employ the skill, ie you pretend to paint to gte on
someones good side and ingratiate yourself to them?
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz [mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:39
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Courtier amendment proposal


  Playing instruments are taught by minstrels, as painting
> watercolours are taught by artists.  All courtly employment, but not
> courtier stuff.

not true. Ask Buckingham. Read Pride and Prejudice. The list of counter
examples is long...

Ian



>
> Regards,
> Sally
>
>
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>


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Yabut if you only pretend to paint your rivals _will_ find out, and
embarrass you. You have to be at least competent by the standards of your
peers - this may be different from what 'real' artists think, but the golden
rule[1] applies.

Errol

[1] He who has the gold make the rules - only independently wealthy artists
count.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris.Caulfield@WaitemataDHB.govt.nz
> [mailto:Chris.Caulfield@WaitemataDHB.govt.nz]
> Sent: Friday, 18 October 2002 9:08 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Courtier amendment proposal
> 
> 
> Is it not so much how you acquire the skill 
> ie You had a family friend teach you to paint
> but rather how you employ the skill, ie you pretend to paint to gte on
> someones good side and ingratiate yourself to them?
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz [mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:39
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Courtier amendment proposal
> 
> 
>   Playing instruments are taught by minstrels, as painting
> > watercolours are taught by artists.  All courtly employment, but not
> > courtier stuff.
> 
> not true. Ask Buckingham. Read Pride and Prejudice. The list 
> of counter
> examples is long...
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sally
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Good question.

I guess it is what you hope to achieve by it.

the arts are something expected of gentle folk, ie those who inhabit courts.
Singing, playing instruments, needlepoint, tapestries, dancing, playing
cards, gambling. Nothing useful, but things that fill in the time and have
elegance. Entertaining the King by dancing was a legitimate endeavour for a
duke - it also showed off his fine calves (the male equivalent of breasts in
those days).

People who live by their craft are considered artisans.

those that life by the work of others are gentle (or military or temple).

Also, courtier seems to becoming the skill of attending court, rather than
that of polite entertainment (courtesan) - not to be confused with ribald
entertainment (troubadour) - which was welcomed anywhere from dive to
castle.

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: <Chris.Caulfield@WaitemataDHB.govt.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Friday, 18 October 2002 09:07
Subject: Re: [dq] Courtier amendment proposal


> Is it not so much how you acquire the skill
> ie You had a family friend teach you to paint
> but rather how you employ the skill, ie you pretend to paint to gte on
> someones good side and ingratiate yourself to them?
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz [mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 20:39
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Courtier amendment proposal
>
>
>   Playing instruments are taught by minstrels, as painting
> > watercolours are taught by artists.  All courtly employment, but not
> > courtier stuff.
>
> not true. Ask Buckingham. Read Pride and Prejudice. The list of counter
> examples is long...
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sally
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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