dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:

>I read with alarm that the good duckies (er, duchies)  that
>now make up the Western Kingdom, were able to mobilise over 1% of their
>populace to fight a war of aggression.
>
[snip]

>In some regions every 100 hearths wre obligated to pay for one
>soldier for one year. In poorer districts the obligation might be one
>soldier for every 200 or 300 hearths.
>
Hi Ian,

IIRC, the levy estimates for the Baronies War assumed 60 days service as 
standard rather than a year.  If the levy was 1 soldier per 100 people 
(approx 10 hearths) for 1/6th of a year, that's effectively 1 per 60 
hearths for a year.  Rather more perhaps than the 1 per 100+ hearths 
from your reference but less than it might appear at first.  I'm pretty 
sure the 1% figure did come from some historical source and I recall a 
5% figure as well -- 1 in 20 as the maximum number of people who can be 
raised for fighting in defence.

>The english requirement was, therefore quite reasonable (from an
>adventurer's point of view):
>income of over        equip and provide the following
>8000 sp per year = one man-at-arms for a year
>6400 sp per year = two mounted spearmen
>3200 sp per year = one mounted spearman
>1920 sp per year = one archer
>
Pounds sterling to Seagate coinage conversion aside for a moment, I 
think those incomes might be rather on the low side -- 

The GM guide's coinage equivalent incomes (assuming that many 
families/hearths see little actual coinage) gives an annaul income of 
1095sp as Subsistence and 3650sp as Poor (it should technically now be 
3640 -- it was calculated as 1 penny per person per day, with 10 people 
to a hearth -- [shrug] maybe the extra 10 are spent on the High 
Holidays).  But anyway, a Poor hearth is unlikely to be able to support 
a mounted spearman (Hobilar), and a family half way between Subsistence 
and Poor aren't going to support an archer.  Poor may however describe 
"landed peasants" and could perhaps supply an archer.

The next step up on the DQ chart is Middle Class at 8760sp per annum, 
and the first tier at which the family might support a mounted anything. 
 There's a fairly big jump to the next level at 20,000sp per annum, the 
equivalent of a poor-ish knight, and this level could expect to 
personlly furnish the army with a Knight and squire, or perhaps pay for 
a professional man-at-arms.

So, I'd suggest a revision to your chart along the lines of:

income of over     equip and provide the following
20000 sp per year = one man-at-arms for a year (or attend self with squire)
14500 sp per year = two mounted spearmen
8760 sp per year = one mounted spearman
3650 sp per year = one archer 

Cheers,
Martin

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 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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martin.dickson@peace.com wrote:

> Pounds sterling to Seagate coinage conversion aside for a moment, I 
> think those incomes might be rather on the low side --
> The GM guide's coinage equivalent incomes (assuming that many 
> families/hearths see little actual coinage) gives an annaul income of 
> 1095sp as Subsistence and 3650sp as Poor 

[...]

>
> So, I'd suggest a revision to your chart along the lines of:
>
> income of over     equip and provide the following
> 20000 sp per year = one man-at-arms for a year (or attend self with 
> squire)
> 14500 sp per year = two mounted spearmen
> 8760 sp per year = one mounted spearman
> 3650 sp per year = one archer 

Or alternatively, reduce the living expenses - they've always seemed to 
me to be out of whack with the rest of the prices. E.g. Adventurers 
spending 5 minutes of real-world-time arguing over spending 20sp to get 
6 people and their horses put up overnight in an inn with meals.

The only one of my characters who has made it to 'middle class' is 
Anathea, and she only gets there because the villagers give her chickens 
and flour for blessings, potions etc.


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michael.woodhams@peace.com wrote:

> Or alternatively, reduce the living expenses - they've always seemed 
> to me to be out of whack with the rest of the prices. E.g. Adventurers 
> spending 5 minutes of real-world-time arguing over spending 20sp to 
> get 6 people and their horses put up overnight in an inn with meals. 

Ummm... sure.  'Course all of the prices (other than weapons and armour 
that came directly from the DQ2 rules) were worked out at the same time 
and are _suppossed_ to be roughly in sync.  :-)

20sp for a party for two good rooms for a night plus good meals 
(advtenturers need their protein) plus stabling and feed works out as a 
bit more expensive than maintaining a Middle Class household/hearth for 
a day (living away from home is usually more expensive -- the innkeeper 
has to make a profit after all).

For comparison, what could one buy for the same 20sp?  A Rk 0 
Main-gauche (let's not get into how long that takes to make or costs the 
Weaponsmith for raw materials 'cos that is very dubious); 12oz of Coffee 
beans, 1 good dyed middle-class woman's dress, 10 chickens, 2 packs of 
playing cards or 2 gallons of good olive oil.  Doesn't look like the inn 
prices are unreasonably out of whack.

I guess YMMV, but I've played with and GMed parties who quibbled over 
room prices and others who'd spend 500sp on a particularly fine bottle 
of Bordelais. :-)

Cheers,
Martin

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 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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<html>
<head>
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<body>
This topic has reminded me -- there's a quite good little web page that might
be of use to GMs called <a href="http://www.io.com/%7Esjohn/demog.htm">Medieval
Demographics Made Easy</a>
.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately it doesn't really address the military potential of an area
but covers quite a few other aspects.  The <a href="http://www.rpglibrary.org/utils/meddemog/">
on-line javascript calculator</a>
 derived from this information is very quick and easy to use.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</pre>
<br>
</body>
</html>


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