> Hi there
> Please find attached the tidied up version of the revised Spy Skill that
> I've been working on.  Although it may not cover everything that people
> wanted, I believe it is better than the current skill.  I propose that we
> officially vote on it at the beginning of the next guild meeting, for its
> inclusion in the next copy of the rules (march 2003 has been proposed).
> Please tell other DQ players not on this mailing list that this version is
> out.

As requested this is available on the website www.dragonquest.org.nz

Mandos
/s


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Hi Sally,

This version looks really good!  It's clear and straightforward but 
looks comprehensive enough to cover any flavour of Spy one might want. 
 Excellent work.

Cheers,
Martin

PS:  I'd be more than happy to also put a copy on the DragonQuest Vault 
site if you like.

PPS:  It still has lock-picking [grumble, grumble]

PPS: Nah, it's fine.  :-)

---

salient@kcbbs.gen.nz wrote:

>A new version of the Spy Skill has been issued to be voted on at the
>beginning of the December Guild Meeting.  A copy has been posted to the
>main list, or I can send a copy if you request it, (or give Mandos a couple
>of days, then get it from his website (hint hint))
>
>Regards,
>Sally
>
>
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>

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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Hi Martin,
Thanks for the comments.  It was mainly based on your document, so thank
you too.  (And to everyone who came up with the ideas ...)

Brent was adamant that spies be able to get into places without being
noticed, hence the pick locks.  Though I avoided the trap searches, and
reckon safe breaking should be dropped altogether since it is too modern a
flavour.  

Sure go ahead and add it to your website too.

Sally

At 08:16 21/11/02 +1300, you wrote:
>Hi Sally,
>
>This version looks really good!  It's clear and straightforward but 
>looks comprehensive enough to cover any flavour of Spy one might want. 
> Excellent work.
>
>Cheers,
>Martin
>
>PS:  I'd be more than happy to also put a copy on the DragonQuest Vault 
>site if you like.
>
>PPS:  It still has lock-picking [grumble, grumble]
>
>PPS: Nah, it's fine.  :-)
>
>---
>
>salient@kcbbs.gen.nz wrote:
>
>>A new version of the Spy Skill has been issued to be voted on at the
>>beginning of the December Guild Meeting.  A copy has been posted to the
>>main list, or I can send a copy if you request it, (or give Mandos a couple
>>of days, then get it from his website (hint hint))
>>
>>Regards,
>>Sally
>>
>>
>>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>>
>
>-- 
>
> _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
>_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
>       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
>
>
>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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After the discussions on copyright and the placing of the rules on the Web I
have been in contact with Wizards of the Coast and discussed our issues.

Basically they are happy for us to have the site with any information and
details we like. If they have a problem they will ask me to remove it.

Basically the gist of his message is that as long as it is not D&D or Magic
the Gathering they really don't care at all. I was asked to put a copyright
disclaimer on the site which has been done.

Mandos
/s


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Thank you

Does the copyright notice on the printed rules also need changing/updating?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mandos@iconz.net [mailto:mandos@iconz.net]
> 
> 
> 
> After the discussions on copyright and the placing of the 
> rules on the Web I
> have been in contact with Wizards of the Coast and discussed 
> our issues.
> 
> Basically they are happy for us to have the site with any 
> information and
> details we like. If they have a problem they will ask me to remove it.
> 
> Basically the gist of his message is that as long as it is 
> not D&D or Magic
> the Gathering they really don't care at all. I was asked to 
> put a copyright
> disclaimer on the site which has been done.
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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>After the discussions on copyright and the placing of the rules on the Web I
>have been in contact with Wizards of the Coast and discussed our issues.
>
>Basically they are happy for us to have the site with any information and
>details we like. If they have a problem they will ask me to remove it.
>
>Basically the gist of his message is that as long as it is not D&D or Magic
>the Gathering they really don't care at all. I was asked to put a copyright
>disclaimer on the site which has been done.

Thank you for helping to clear that up Mandos. I'll put the same disclaimer 
on the library site.

Keith.


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> Thank you
>
> Does the copyright notice on the printed rules also need
> changing/updating?

I don't know too much about writing copyrights but I would pop in a bit of a
mention about Wizards of the coast retaining copyright on all the stuff that
has not been modified :-)

It comes down in the long run to they don't care and they are not going to
rerelease the game nor are they likely to sue anyone over it.

:-)

Mandos
/s


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A link to 
www.wizards.com/company/WebSiteLegalNotice.asp 
 would be a good part of this - it lets WotC have the exact wording they
want.

Maybe something like 

Parts of these works are <a>copyrighted</a> by Wizards of the Coast, and
have been published with their permission.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: mandos@iconz.net [mailto:mandos@iconz.net]
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 12:11 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Copyright



> Thank you
>
> Does the copyright notice on the printed rules also need
> changing/updating?

I don't know too much about writing copyrights but I would pop in a bit of a
mention about Wizards of the coast retaining copyright on all the stuff that
has not been modified :-)

It comes down in the long run to they don't care and they are not going to
rerelease the game nor are they likely to sue anyone over it.

:-)

Mandos
/s


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> A link to
> www.wizards.com/company/WebSiteLegalNotice.asp
>  would be a good part of this - it lets WotC have the exact wording they
> want.
>
> Maybe something like
>
> Parts of these works are <a>copyrighted</a> by Wizards of the Coast, and
> have been published with their permission.

After doing a bit more thinking about this I note that the copyright for
Dragonquest has not been transferred to WoTC. It is still registered to TSR.

However I have no idea what this means to the copyright given that TSR no
longer exists.

It also explains why the guy I was talking to never specified DQ by name,
only refering to it as "our older properties".

Anyone a guru on American Copyright laws and the expiry and ownership
therof?

Mandos
/s


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Good idea Andrew.  'Course if you read through their list of copyrights 
and trademarks DQ is absent.

I'm surprised they even know they owned it.  :-)

---

AndrewW@datacom.co.nz wrote:

>A link to 
>www.wizards.com/company/WebSiteLegalNotice.asp 
> would be a good part of this - it lets WotC have the exact wording they
>want.
>
>Maybe something like 
>
>Parts of these works are <a>copyrighted</a> by Wizards of the Coast, and
>have been published with their permission.
>
>Andrew
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mandos@iconz.net [mailto:mandos@iconz.net]
>Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 12:11 p.m.
>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>Subject: Re: [dq] Copyright
>
>
>
>>Thank you
>>
>>Does the copyright notice on the printed rules also need
>>changing/updating?
>>
>
>I don't know too much about writing copyrights but I would pop in a bit of a
>mention about Wizards of the coast retaining copyright on all the stuff that
>has not been modified :-)
>
>It comes down in the long run to they don't care and they are not going to
>rerelease the game nor are they likely to sue anyone over it.
>
>:-)
>
>Mandos
>/s
>
>
>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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If anyone does wish to investigate this the copyright code for DQ is
TX-2-637-670

Mandos
/s


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mandos@iconz.net wrote:

>Anyone a guru on American Copyright laws and the expiry and ownership
>therof?
>
Nope, but... the term is pretty clear from the US copyright law:
DURATION OF COPYRIGHT
§ 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 19784
(c) ANONYMOUS WORKS, PSEUDONYMOUS WORKS, AND WORKS MADE FOR HIRE.--In 
the case of ... a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term 
of 95 years from the year of its first publication, or a term of 120 
years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

I remember hearing that TSR published 3rd Ed. to keep the copyright, but 
that is not consistent with standard US copyright for a "Work for Hire". 
It is however possible that the original authors had an arrangement with 
SPI that if their work was not published for a number of years then it 
would revert to them.

Just a WAG, but possible.

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: martin.dickson@peace.com 
> 
> >
> Nope, but... the term is pretty clear from the US copyright law:
> DURATION OF COPYRIGHT
> § 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after 
> January 1, 19784

Um, that's clear? ;-)


> (c) ANONYMOUS WORKS, PSEUDONYMOUS WORKS, AND WORKS MADE FOR HIRE.--In 
> the case of ... a work made for hire, the copyright endures 
> for a term 
> of 95 years from the year of its first publication, or a term of 120 
> years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.
> 
> I remember hearing that TSR published 3rd Ed. to keep the 
> copyright, but 
> that is not consistent with standard US copyright for a "Work 
> for Hire". 
> It is however possible that the original authors had an 
> arrangement with 
> SPI that if their work was not published for a number of 
> years then it 
> would revert to them.
> 
> Just a WAG, but possible.

And the legal status of any such agreement could amuse lawyers for days, I'm
sure.

> 
> -- 
> 
>  _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: 
> martin.dickson@peace.com
> _/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
>        Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
And on a similar note, a search of the <a href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&amp;state=360400.1.1">
US Patent office Trademark database</a>
 shows that "Dragonquest" with respect to an RPG, as opposed to TSRs later
kiddies game of the same name is not a registered trademark.<br>
<br>
The only registration for Dragonquest refers to the later game, specifically
"Equipment Sold as a Unit for Playing a Board-Type Parlour Game".<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mandos@iconz.net">mandos@iconz.net</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200211202357.MAA32384@smtp.sig.net.nz">
  <pre wrap="">If anyone does wish to investigate this the copyright code for DQ is<br>TX-2-637-670<br><br>Mandos<br>/s<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br><br></pre>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
  <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</pre>
  <br>
  </body>
  </html>


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">


<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4912.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=078403604-21112002>There 
is a dead Trademark which appears to be the original filing as follows 
:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A 
href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&amp;state=360400.7.1">http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&amp;state=360400.7.1</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A 
href="http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&amp;entry=73393822">http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&amp;entry=73393822</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078403604-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Anyone 
keen on going through the hoops to try to reclaim it?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078403604-21112002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078403604-21112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> martin.dickson@peace.com 
  [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 21 November 2002 
  5:36 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] 
  Copyright<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>And on a similar note, a search of the <A 
  href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&amp;state=360400.1.1">US 
  Patent office Trademark database</A> shows that "Dragonquest" with respect to 
  an RPG, as opposed to TSRs later kiddies game of the same name is not a 
  registered trademark.<BR><BR>The only registration for Dragonquest refers to 
  the later game, specifically "Equipment Sold as a Unit for Playing a 
  Board-Type Parlour Game".<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR><BR>---<BR><BR><A 
  class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated 
  href="mailto:mandos@iconz.net">mandos@iconz.net</A> wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite="mid:200211202357.MAA32384@smtp.sig.net.nz" type="cite"><PRE wrap="">If anyone does wish to investigate this the copyright code for DQ is<BR>TX-2-637-670<BR><BR>Mandos<BR>/s<BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A> --<BR><BR></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="$mailwrapcol">-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</A>
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</PRE><BR>-- to 
  unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
I don't think (from a quick read of US trademark FAQs) that it is possible
to "reclaim" it -- rather it would be possible to publish a game called "Dragonquest"
and providing that its description was not in conflict with the live trademark
for the palour game, to register it as a trademark in the US.<br>
<br>
It could be however, that such an act might just annoy WoC, who very possibly
own the copyright on the DQ material for the next 100 years or so. &nbsp;:-)<br>
<br>
BTW, the other Dragonquest trademark expires April next year, though the
current owner (err... TSR) would have a grace period of 6 months after that
to preserve it.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:200211210439.RAA04871@smtp.sig.net.nz">
  <meta content="MSHTML 5.50.4912.300" name="GENERATOR">
  <div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span class="078403604-21112002">
There  is a dead Trademark which appears to be the original filing as follows
 :</span></font></div>
  <div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><a href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&amp;state=360400.7.1">
http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&amp;state=360400.7.1</a>
  </font></div>
  <div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><a href="http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&amp;entry=73393822">
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&amp;entry=73393822</a>
  </font></div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><span class="078403604-21112002"><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">
Anyone  keen on going through the hoops to try to reclaim it?</font></span></div>
  <div><span class="078403604-21112002"></span>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><span class="078403604-21112002"><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">
Andrew</font></span></div>
  <blockquote>
    <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="Ltr" align="Left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">
-----Original Message-----<br>
    <b>From:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>    [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com</a>]<br>
    <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 21 November 2002    5:36 p.m.<br>
    <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</a><br>
    <b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq]    Copyright<br>
    <br>
    </font></div>
And on a similar note, a search of the <a href="http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&amp;state=360400.1.1">
US    Patent office Trademark database</a>
 shows that "Dragonquest" with respect to    an RPG, as opposed to TSRs later
kiddies game of the same name is not a    registered trademark.<br>
    <br>
The only registration for Dragonquest refers to    the later game, specifically
"Equipment Sold as a Unit for Playing a    Board-Type Parlour Game".<br>
    <br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
    <br>
---<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mandos@iconz.net">mandos@iconz.net</a>
 wrote:<br>
    <blockquote cite="mid:200211202357.MAA32384@smtp.sig.net.nz" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">If anyone does wish to investigate this the copyright code for DQ is<br>TX-2-637-670<br><br>Mandos<br>/s<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br><br></pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- <br><br> _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a><br>_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400<br>       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</pre>
      <br>
-- to    unsubscribe notify <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --</blockquote>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</pre>
      <br>
      </body>
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