Subject[dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
FromMartin Dickson
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 15:58:57 +1300
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Hi Folks,<br>
<br>
Just want clarification/obfusication/opinions on the rules around additional
damage from Skill or PS as they apply to Unarmed.<br>
<br>
Relevant rules state, [bolding mine]:<br>
<u>(3.11 Damage) -- Additional Damage</u><br>
The damage inflicted with a particular weapon may be increased due to exceptional
Physical Strength or Rank. <b>Only one of these two modifiers</b> may be
applied<br>
at any time. <br>
If a figure chooses to over-strength a weapon, they may inflict an additional
point of damage for every 5 full points of Physical Strength they have <b>
over the minimum required</b> to use the weapon. Thown or Missile weapons
may not be over strengthed. <b>See &sect;{3.14 for Unarmed Combat</b>.<br>
If a figure chooses to apply skill to inflict extra damage, they may inflict
an additional point of damage for every full 4 Ranks they have in the weapon.
This affects Close, Melee Thrown, and Missile weapons.<br>
<br>
Now... the damage modifer for Unarmed is not fixed like other weapons, rather
it is D-4 [+1 per 3 full PS over 15], so <u>technically</u> it is not possible
to over-strength Unarmed as the damage is calculated directly from PS and
there is no minimum required PS. &nbsp;However, the reference to Unarmed combat
in the in the over-strength rule suggests (IMHO) that the PS bonus from Unarmed
is being considered in the same cateogy. &nbsp;Was this the intention?<br>
<br>
If so, is it possible only to get bonuses from either PS (1 per 3 over 15)
or skill on Unarmed? &nbsp;Thus Bob, PS 18, and Rk 8 Unarmed can have either D-3
from PS or D-2 from skill, but not D-1 from [D-4 +1 per 3 PS over 15] +2
for skill.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, since it is not technically possible to over-strength
Unarmed, then can the Skill rank be applied as the sole Additional Damage
bonus, (and the DM is calculated on D-4 +1 per 3 PS over 15 as stated)? &nbsp;If
this is the case then I'd suggest that the over-strength rule should include
Unarmed with Thrown and Melee in its list of exclusions rather than simply
refering to it.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401</pre>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
Fromdworkin
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 16:03:21 +1300
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What do you mean by 'Bolding mine'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My extra damage rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You can be either strong or skillful unless the 
character has a scaled up weapon, ala The Bow of Odysseus. So a two hander of a 
giant is 10 ft long and probably has a +9 DM and is twice as heavy with a PS 
requirement of 32.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thrown weapons benefit from over strengthing or get 
+1 hex range per PS over minimum. Big people throw things further, harder and 
throw bigger things. Titans throw boulders with their rock skill.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Unarmed is completely different in that you can be 
both strong and skillfull at the same time when mashing an enemies face into the 
ground. Personally I would prefer the PS bonus caps at +4 (39 PS) or equivalent. 
However it is an heroic game system with scope for the Labours of Hercules, well 
Haagen in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>William</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
FromMandos\ Mitchinson
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 16:08:59 +1300
> What do you mean by 'Bolding mine'.

He added the Bold bits.

> My extra damage rules.

I allow overstrengthing on any kind of weapon but I also add a penalty and
an increased chance to the fumble table as I believe the removal of that
penalty was to the detriment of the game.

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
FromMichael Woodhams
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 16:24:08 +1300
Martin Dickson wrote:

> they may inflict an additional point of damage for every 5 full points 
> of Physical Strength they have * over the minimum required* to use the 
> weapon. Thown or Missile weapons may not be over strengthed. *See 
> {3.14 for Unarmed Combat*.

I think this is just saying 'unarmed combat is a special case (sort of 
like thrown/missile weapons) therefore this rule does not apply'

I.e. you can apply both ST and skill damage bonuses to unarmed, because 
the ST bonus is part of the 'base' damage of an unarmed attack.

I guess if you really wanted to, you could apply only part of your ST to 
the 'base' damage, then overstrength the rest (at a worse conversion 
rate) and then be not allowed to apply the skill bonus... ("I'm going to 
fight like a 10 year old child - just a really really strong one.")

If you get a weaponsmithed body, you could add up to an extra +2. :-)


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SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
FromMichael\ Parkinson
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 17:08:06 +1300
> Just want clarification/obfusication/opinions on the
> rules around
> additional damage from Skill or PS as they apply to Unarmed.
 [...]
> On the other hand, since it is not technically possible to
> over-strength Unarmed, then can the Skill rank be
> applied as the sole Additional Damage bonus ...

That is how I GM it.  Therefore I agree that your modification
would be clearer.

A related problem:  Negative dice modifiers.   Does hypothetical
Bob (PS 18, and Rk 8 Unarmed) do [D-4]+3 damage, or does he do
[D-1] ? or is that even [D-3] +2 ?   Many years ago, when I first
started playing Haagen, I was told by a GM that the first option
applies (can't remember who, doesn't matter, but it was someone
whom I obviously trusted so implicity that I've never thought
otherwise).
[D-4]+3 has a nice feel since half the blows (dice roll 1 through
5) are automatically minimum damage.
[D-1] is easier to calculate.

Perversly, however, this means that when the defender's armour
protection is less than or equal to the attackers total bonuses,
the *first* option, i.e. [D-4]+3 choice where "50% of blow are
minimum damage", does frationally MORE fatigue damage than the
other option, [D-1]

regards, Michael


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SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
Fromdworkin
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 18:11:50 +1300

>
> A related problem:  Negative dice modifiers.   Does hypothetical
> Bob (PS 18, and Rk 8 Unarmed) do [D-4]+3 damage, or does he do
> [D-1] ? or is that even [D-3] +2 ?   Many years ago, when I first
> started playing Haagen, I was told by a GM that the first option
> applies (can't remember who, doesn't matter, but it was someone
> whom I obviously trusted so implicity that I've never thought
> otherwise).
> [D-4]+3 has a nice feel since half the blows (dice roll 1 through
> 5) are automatically minimum damage.
> [D-1] is easier to calculate.

I use the [D-1] option, although it's more likely to be D+6 :.-) It's easier
on the brain when GMing. There's enough wierdo modifiers flying around as it
is. Anyways, rock (a D-1 weapon) scales up to D and D+n on most character
sheets I see.

William


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SubjectRe: [dq] Extra Damage -- Skill vs. PS with regards to Unarmed
FromClare Baldock
DateFri, 14 Feb 2003 18:52:02 +1300
On Friday, Feb 14, 2003, at 16:08 Pacific/Auckland, Mandos Mitchinson 
wrote:

>> What do you mean by 'Bolding mine'.
>
> He added the Bold bits.

Well actually - the words were already there, he just made them bold 
for emphasis.

cheers,

clare


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