5 to 6 Adventures - probably short by one or two depending on turn-out this session.



Mandos - Night Mo/We, Lvl Neg, Loc My place or Neg.
Baron Francis of NewCourt is recruiting to recover a preist believed kidnapped
by fairies.

William - Night TBA, Lvl Med-Rare, Loc TBA.
Lady Nereth, Beautiful Daughter of The Great Wizard Zarquon is recruiting for
an easy medium rare with extra toppings and side orders mission to retreive
2 objects and put them somewhere.  Promises "Fencing,Fighting, Torture, Revenge,

Giants, Bad Men, Best Men, Monsters of all shapes and sizes, Chases, Escapes,
True Love, Miricles."

Jeff L - Night TBA, Lvl Med/High, Loc TBA.
Amber has some family problems on IceFall and will probably want some friends
to help sort her out.

Chris C - Night Wed, Lvl Lowish, Loc Waterview.
Making contacts and establishing relationships in Erewhon.

Bernard H - Night TBA, Lvl Lowish, Loc TBA.
First time DQ GM, potentially running adventure, requires GM sponsor.

Andrew - Night Mon, Lvl High+, Loc Avondale.
Captain Brown of the Mime Division of Aesthetic Enforcement has recruited for
an off-plane Mime Hunt.


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Proposal: Starting Characteristics are changed so that the player may chose any
of the following values and that choice sets the limit on how much they can
raise each stat (instead of a fixed limit of 5).

Start	Max    
Total	Raise  
82	9      
84	8      
86	7      
88	6      
90	5      
92	4      
94	3      
96	2      
98	1      

***************
The following table is for information purposes about averages, maximums and
xp costs.

Start	Max    Start	Max   Max    At XP
Total	Raise  Ave	Ave   Total  Cost
82	9      13.7	22.7  136    250,000
84	8      14.0	22.0  132    222,500
86	7      14.3	21.3  128    195,000
88	6      14.7	20.7  124    167,500
90	5      15.0	20.0  120    140,000
92	4      15.3	19.3  116    112,500
94	3      15.7	18.7  112    85,000
96	2      16.0	18.0  108    57,500
98	1      16.3	17.3  104    30,000


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Assumption: The Change to Starting Characteristics is Approved.

Proposal: That the new limits on the amount that characteristics can be raised
from their starting values are applied to all existing characters.
Characters that have already exceeded the new limit will keep their existing
values but may not raise them any further.

*********************
Reminder - Rules changes when voted in do not come into play until they are
published in the next rulebook.


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Any comments or feedback on the following?

*****
Any word on Spy or Thief?

Namer, Mind, Fire and Binder are all due or overdue to come out of their probationary
periods.  If anyone has any specific issues to raise and resolve then please

raise them asap, otherwise they should all roll into being non-probationary
with the next rule-book.

Rulebook - the last published rulebook was the September 2001 edition I believe.


I can't remember off-hand whether we have voted in any rules changes since then.

 Can anyone confirm this one way or the other?
Assuming we have some changes then shall we schedule a new edition for later
this year? (2 years after the last version) or shall we hold out for a new record

- 3 years without any rules changes taking effect?


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The Character Tribunal is being revived.

The Tribunal Members are: William, Mandos and __________

The mandate of the tribunal is to oversee the creation of non-standard characters.
 And to ensure that new characters are compatible with our campaign.
This includes rolling for unusual aspects and non-standard backgrounds and abilities,
and anything more bizarre.

All standard characters require a GM to oversee creation and another GM to co-sign
within 6 months of starting.
Non-standard characters require either the creating or co-signing GM to be a
tribunal member.

A GM that is qualified to create characters is an experienced DQ GM in our campaign.

 Preferably with at least 2 or 3 adventures (as a GM) under their belt.  The
idea is that they should have sufficient understanding of the game and campaign
to help the player create a character that will work in our campaign.

************
The appointments and mandate should be approved by the gods meeting.
Once approved, these will take effect immediately.


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Good point.  Thinking on the spot...
The starting value of FT is based on the starting EN which is affected by the
points pool so it would seem fair that the amount it can be raised is also affected,
but not as much as the starting FT values only range from 18 to 21.  Something
along the lines of 5 + (MaxRaise - 5) / 2.
But I think that is getting too complicated and is not required.  The Primary
Stat range is balanced by the Primary Stat maximums.  FT is not sufficiently
affected to require balancing.
I suggest that FT does remain at a fixed 5 point maximum raise.

Cheers, Stephen.

>Question:  Does FT remain a fixed 5 point raise?
>
>Stephen Martin wrote:
>
>>Assumption: The Change to Starting Characteristics is Approved.
>>
>>Proposal: That the new limits on the amount that characteristics can be raised

>>from their starting values are applied to all existing characters.
>>Characters that have already exceeded the new limit will keep their existing

>>values but may not raise them any further.
>>
>>*********************
>>Reminder - Rules changes when voted in do not come into play until they are

>>published in the next rulebook.
>>
>>
>>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>>
>
>-- 
>
> _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
>_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
>       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401
>
>
>
>


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High Class Travel Rations
-------------------------
Sick of stale bread, beef jerky and mouldy cheese?
Adventure with a touch of class
-Brioche fresh out of the oven for breakfast
-Savoury breads filled with delicacies and freshly baked for lunch
-Dinner is a choice of Venison or Game Pie, Glazed Ham on the Bone, Roast Eye
Fillet or Succulent Lamb all fresh from the oven.
Includes 2 bottles of the finest Aquilan wine.
All of this prepared by the finest chefs in Seagate, packaged in a convenient
travel case and kept fresh for 7 weeks.
1,000sp for meals for 2 for a week.
You deserve to eat well!  Be quick, supplies are limited.

Contact Thaeuss at the guild.
(stephen_martin@clear.net.nz)


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Stephen Martin wrote:

>Assumption: The Change to Starting Characteristics is Approved.
>
Hi Stephen,

Has this actually been approved?  Did it get voted through last 
Guild/gods meeting?  (Wasn't there, don't rember minutes, etc).

If it has then fine I guess... don't like it much.  Do agree that 
starting stats should be balanced but don't like the extreme-ness of 
this method -- if one is planning on playing a short term character one 
will always pick the high end.  Long term one is almost forced to pick 
low end at the start so that eventually the stat total is high enough to 
play in the big leagues.

>Proposal: That the new limits on the amount that characteristics can be raised
>from their starting values are applied to all existing characters.
>
So people who selected their starting stats having planned their future 
development at +5 are screwed?  E.g. starting elf with Ag 20 + 1 racial 
for 21 starting stat and planning to add 5 to 26 now finds their max to 
be lower?  Don't like.

>Characters that have already exceeded the new limit will keep their existing
>values but may not raise them any further.
>
Ewww.  So, Bob and Joe were created on the same high number of points 
and had the same amount of "raise" (5 pts).  Bob has maxed out one stat, 
and Joe has bought one of each.  Now Joe can't raise his any higher, but 
Bob keeps his +5 stat and can still raise the others a bit.  Don't like.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 

 _/_/  Peace Software International     Email: martin.dickson@peace.com
_/     Martin Dickson                   Phone: +64-9-373-0400
       Senior Analyst                   Fax  : +64-9-373-0401


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Neither of these has been approved.  They were discussed on the list about 2
months ago, they are being put forward for voting at the meeting on Sunday.


>Stephen Martin wrote:
>
>>Assumption: The Change to Starting Characteristics is Approved.
>>
>Hi Stephen,
>
>Has this actually been approved?  Did it get voted through last 
>Guild/gods meeting?  (Wasn't there, don't rember minutes, etc).

...

>Cheers,
>Martin
>


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Guys if we drop the roll for stats all together the we might as well just have 1
starting stat figure or as Martin says Short term characters will start at the top
and long term at bottom (or close too it.) to get the the maximum later.

I 'd guess the reason that someone out there wants to fix what isn't really broken
in the character generation system is because they have some low starting roll
character that's maxed out and their sick of watching the high starting rollers max
out at racial max.

Simplest way to do what you want is top everyone out is to set a max total stat
points of say 125 or 130 that gives everyone a max average of  20.8- 21.6 ( The
lower value fits well with +5 on taking the default choice of 90 which gives
average start values of 15)
With the racial max as limits applying as usual.

Thus no matter if a character was rolled or generated by default start points, they
all have the same potential. With the variation being on how many points you choose
to put into which stat.

Martin Dickson wrote:

> So people who selected their starting stats having planned their future
> development at +5 are screwed?  E.g. starting elf with Ag 20 + 1 racial
> for 21 starting stat and planning to add 5 to 26 now finds their max to
> be lower?  Don't like.

I don't like it either, I have characters that are built like this, with the future
in mind.
I am thinking  of those like me who have built new characters in the last 2 or so
years they would be most  caught by this change.
We could see many of these lows being junked.

> Ewww.  So, Bob and Joe were created on the same high number of points
> and had the same amount of "raise" (5 pts).  Bob has maxed out one stat,
> and Joe has bought one of each.  Now Joe can't raise his any higher, but
> Bob keeps his +5 stat and can still raise the others a bit.  Don't like.

And then there is John a  character who has had most of the ep he's earned  spent
on stats so they are all raised 2 or 3 points, forgetting about his magic in the
start.
And Jane  who has only raised say MA a point or two and concentrated on skillst and
spells.
Now she can never raise those other stats more than one point, where as John still
reaps the benefit of those extra points give in weapon choices, endurance, tmr etc.

Back dating the limits on to old characters hurts those who have existing high low
and mediumish characters most.  Such a change might totally screw characters with
years of playing time invested in them as they can no longer make the stats they
were created with the intention of reaching.

Helen


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My Personal View is why not just make it easy, without having to track
starting stats etc...  And just say

	No matter what your starting points, you can increase your stats
up to racial maximum.  After all if it is a racial maximum then each
member of a race has the potential to get there.

No arguments, about what your starting points were, 6 year after you
started playing, etc ....

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, 30 May 2003 4:17 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Voting Issue: Starting Characteristics Limitation
Applied to Existing Characters


Neither of these has been approved.  They were discussed on the list
about 2 months ago, they are being put forward for voting at the meeting
on Sunday.


>Stephen Martin wrote:
>
>>Assumption: The Change to Starting Characteristics is Approved.
>>
>Hi Stephen,
>
>Has this actually been approved?  Did it get voted through last
>Guild/gods meeting?  (Wasn't there, don't rember minutes, etc).

...

>Cheers,
>Martin
>


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