> >Please - can we have your contributions to the Seagate Times as soon as
> >possible please ... we especially need a lead article.
>
> And one slightly odd question. Can anyone tell me who was Tussock's most
> recent non-hobbit party leader?

She has been the party leader on her 3 of her last four missions with Faith
being the party leader on the other mission. Prior to that it was Englton.

Mandos
/s


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Could anyone who had any comments to make after this sessions playtest
please come forward with your comments.

My findings have been that the Enhanced perception sub skill needs a bit
more work on the numbers and the skill description.

The hiding skill allows someone to be motionless for a little long and needs
to be shortened.

Overall with a Rk8 theif some of the numbers are still in the ludicrous
range but it was noted with amusement that they are lower than the old
skill.

If there is anything else I need to be aware of please let me know.

Mandos
/s


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I found Spy was a little hard to use sometimes, as only some of the party had it, so any real use of it for the most part requred people to go off in smaller groups.
 
It was definatly a step up on the old spy though, with Fieldcraft and Shadowing seeing the most use in my game.  The old spy just wouldn't have covered some of the situations that arose.

The willpower adjustment for torture seemed a little underpowered, but I'm happy with the numbers in it, as faking that sort of thing should be hard.
 
Thief i was using the old version so no comments there

Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@allowed.to> wrote:

Could anyone who had any comments to make after this sessions playtest
please come forward with your comments.

My findings have been that the Enhanced perception sub skill needs a bit
more work on the numbers and the skill description.

The hiding skill allows someone to be motionless for a little long and needs
to be shortened.

Overall with a Rk8 theif some of the numbers are still in the ludicrous
range but it was noted with amusement that they are lower than the old
skill.

If there is anything else I need to be aware of please let me know.

Mandos
/s


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From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk


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<DIV>I found Spy was a little hard to use sometimes, as only some of the party had it, so any real use of it for the most part requred people to go off in smaller groups.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It was definatly a step up on the old spy though, with Fieldcraft and Shadowing seeing the most use in my game.&nbsp; The old spy just wouldn't have covered some of the situations that arose.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>The willpower adjustment for torture seemed a little underpowered, but I'm happy with the numbers in it, as faking that sort of thing should be hard.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thief i was using the old version so no comments there</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>Mandos Mitchinson &lt;mandos@allowed.to&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>Could anyone who had any comments to make after this sessions playtest<BR>please come forward with your comments.<BR><BR>My findings have been that the Enhanced perception sub skill needs a bit<BR>more work on the numbers and the skill description.<BR><BR>The hiding skill allows someone to be motionless for a little long and needs<BR>to be shortened.<BR><BR>Overall with a Rk8 theif some of the numbers are still in the ludicrous<BR>range but it was noted with amusement that they are lower than the old<BR>skill.<BR><BR>If there is anything else I need to be aware of please let me know.<BR><BR>Mandos<BR>/s<BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p><br><hr size=1>
Find local movie times and trailers on <a href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com" target=_blank><b>Yahoo! Movies.</b></a><br>
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I was in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use the new
thief because we didn't think the new structure was good for thief,
although it was good for spy.
=20
Andrew

	-----Original Message-----
	From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Bernard Hoggins
	Sent: Saturday, 11 September 2004 10:00 a.m.
	To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
	Subject: Re: [dq] Thief and Spy.=20
=09
=09
	I found Spy was a little hard to use sometimes, as only some of
the party had it, so any real use of it for the most part requred people
to go off in smaller groups.
	=20
	It was definatly a step up on the old spy though, with
Fieldcraft and Shadowing seeing the most use in my game.  The old spy
just wouldn't have covered some of the situations that arose.
=09
	The willpower adjustment for torture seemed a little
underpowered, but I'm happy with the numbers in it, as faking that sort
of thing should be hard.
	=20
	Thief i was using the old version so no comments there

	Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@allowed.to> wrote:


		Could anyone who had any comments to make after this
sessions playtest
		please come forward with your comments.
	=09
		My findings have been that the Enhanced perception sub
skill needs a bit
		more work on the numbers and the skill description.
	=09
		The hiding skill allows someone to be motionless for a
little long and needs
		to be shortened.
	=09
		Overall with a Rk8 theif some of the numbers are still
in the ludicrous
		range but it was noted with amusement that they are
lower than the old
		skill.
	=09
		If there is anything else I need to be aware of please
let me know.
	=09
		Mandos
		/s
	=09
	=09
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--
	=09



	From Bernard Hoggins
	nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk=20

=09
=09
________________________________

	Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
<http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com>=20
=09


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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D757160122-10092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I was=20
in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use the new thief =
because=20
we didn't think the new structure was good for thief, although it was =
good for=20
spy.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D757160122-10092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D757160122-10092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>Bernard Hoggins<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 11 September 2004 10:00=20
  a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Thief =
and Spy.=20
  <BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>I found Spy was a little hard to use sometimes, as only some of =
the party=20
  had it, so any real use of it for the most part requred people to go =
off in=20
  smaller groups.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>It was definatly a step up on the old spy though, with Fieldcraft =
and=20
  Shadowing seeing the most use in my game.&nbsp; The old spy just =
wouldn't have=20
  covered some of the situations that arose.<BR></DIV>
  <DIV>The willpower adjustment for torture seemed a little =
underpowered, but=20
  I'm happy with the numbers in it, as faking that sort of thing should =
be=20
  hard.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Thief i was using the old version so no comments there</DIV>
  <DIV><BR><B><I>Mandos Mitchinson &lt;mandos@allowed.to&gt;</I></B>=20
wrote:</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid"><BR>Could=20
    anyone who had any comments to make after this sessions =
playtest<BR>please=20
    come forward with your comments.<BR><BR>My findings have been that =
the=20
    Enhanced perception sub skill needs a bit<BR>more work on the =
numbers and=20
    the skill description.<BR><BR>The hiding skill allows someone to be=20
    motionless for a little long and needs<BR>to be =
shortened.<BR><BR>Overall=20
    with a Rk8 theif some of the numbers are still in the =
ludicrous<BR>range but=20
    it was noted with amusement that they are lower than the=20
    old<BR>skill.<BR><BR>If there is anything else I need to be aware of =
please=20
    let me know.<BR><BR>Mandos<BR>/s<BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify =

    mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From =
Bernard=20
  Hoggins<BR>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk
  <P><BR>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  Find local movie times and trailers on <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com" =

  target=3D_blank><B>Yahoo! =
Movies.</B></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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> I was in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use 
> the new thief because we didn't think the new structure was good 
> for thief, although it was good for spy.

What about it wasn't good?

More info would be nice.

Mandos
/s


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Generally my thought on the matter is that we were changing spy because spy was just a clone of thief in it's old version.  The Thief change just doesn't seem needed as thief works in it's current format.
Just my reasoning on the matter anyway

Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@allowed.to> wrote:

> I was in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use 
> the new thief because we didn't think the new structure was good 
> for thief, although it was good for spy.

What about it wasn't good?

More info would be nice.

Mandos
/s


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From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk


---------------------------------
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<DIV>Generally my thought on the matter is that we were changing spy because spy was just a clone of thief in it's old version.&nbsp; The Thief change just doesn't seem needed as thief works in it's current format.</DIV>
<DIV>Just my reasoning on the matter anyway<BR><BR><B><I>Mandos Mitchinson &lt;mandos@allowed.to&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>&gt; I was in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use <BR>&gt; the new thief because we didn't think the new structure was good <BR>&gt; for thief, although it was good for spy.<BR><BR>What about it wasn't good?<BR><BR>More info would be nice.<BR><BR>Mandos<BR>/s<BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p><br><hr size=1>
Find local movie times and trailers on <a href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com" target=_blank><b>Yahoo! Movies.</b></a><br>
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While I thought that Thief is a numbers skill, where the point is to get
better chances of doing things faster, while spy is (now) a roleplaying
skill, where the range of options and skills is more important than the
actual numbers - hence the 3xStat+5/Rank.

To paraphrase, Picking Locks, Removing Traps and Climbing is more like
combat - you roll your dice & take your chances; while most of the spy
stuff is roleplaying & GM whim based on your actions supported by your
rank and list of subskills. This is why I think the current Thief format
is better for Thief, although the proposed Spy format is better for Spy.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Mandos Mitchinson
Sent: Saturday, 11 September 2004 10:08 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Thief and Spy. 



> I was in Bernard's game. My understanding was that we didn't use
> the new thief because we didn't think the new structure was good 
> for thief, although it was good for spy.

What about it wasn't good?

More info would be nice.

Mandos
/s


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

> Generally my thought on the matter is that we were changing spy
> because spy was just a clone of thief in it's old version.
> The Thief change just doesn't seem needed as thief works in it's
> current format.
> Just my reasoning on the matter anyway

My Impression was that Spy was rewritten because it was unplayable and crap,
with spy's having no flavour very little skills and in most cases nothing
that could actually be used on an adventure at all.

With Thief effectivly being the same skill it suffers from an identical
problem.

Both skills in their original form effectivly allow you to pick locks, pick
pockets and Remove traps. No other DQ skills are as limited in their scope,
accept possibly Assasin.

From playing a theif over the years the only way to acheive anything with
the skill is to play that you are a theif of X rank and avoid the rules
altogether unless you are picking a lock, picking a pocket or Removing a
trap which to me seems to give a god indication that the rules are broken.

Mandos
/s


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> While I thought that Thief is a numbers skill, where the point is to get
> better chances of doing things faster, while spy is (now) a roleplaying
> skill, where the range of options and skills is more important than the
> actual numbers - hence the 3xStat+5/Rank.

I completly agree it is, but the new spy also added a range of options that
are more numbers based as well, more actions they can perform and more
things they can do. This now leaves thief as an extremely poor cousin to
Spy.

> To paraphrase, Picking Locks, Removing Traps and Climbing is more like
> combat - you roll your dice & take your chances; while most of the spy
> stuff is roleplaying & GM whim based on your actions supported by your
> rank and list of subskills. This is why I think the current Thief format
> is better for Thief, although the proposed Spy format is better for Spy.

At present however I find thief is almost entirely roleplayed as it is
reduced to 2 or three numbers based actions. The rest of the skill has to be
roleplayed and GM whim, the difference being it is not supported by
subskills and instead is held up entirely on your rank.

Format aside the option of rewriting the skill to contain all the options in
the new skill in the format of the old is reasonable if it is the format
that you think works but the skill itself has to change to allow more
options and abilities because at the moment it does not work at all
requireing either the GM or the player to research what a Thief may or may
not be able to do or restricting them to 3 very uninteresting abilities.

Mandos
/s


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