SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 08:22:58 +1200
If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos' racial
proposal happens automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are
stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been doing for
some time. Most people use spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam is a
person too).

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Mandos Mitchinson
Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Discounts



After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the following.

Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other Discounts
and applied first.

So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the cost then
the 10-60% from skill.

Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and it is nice
an easy to apply. If people are happy can we get it added to the Agenda
for the next GM's Meeting.

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] tides - dark moon cycles
FromMartin Dickson
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 08:56:50 +1200
Keith Smith wrote:

>
>> We do have a second moon, just not a very big one.
>
> We do? I'd like to see that story in the Seagate Times

There was info published... I'm pretty sure.  "Moon" is something of an 
overstatement however. "Moonlet", or "small asteroid" would be more 
accurate.  Its size will have no measurable effect on tides... about its 
only real effect will be to give Astrologers something to blame failed 
readings on. :)

    - Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromErrol Cavit
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 09:08:21 +1200
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There is a risk with this issue that no particular calculation method has
clear majority approval. However, what is more important IMO than the method
used is that it is consistent for all characters.

Therefore I suggest that we firstly vote that the most popular method is
adopted (rather than putting up a series of Method1 Y/N; Method2 Y/N;
Method3 Y/N).
We possibly want to decide at this stage how to handle previous rankings
done using methods other than that ultimately adopted.

Then we do multi-round voting to find the most popular, with the least
popular choice each round dropping out (I expect we will have 3-4 methods,
so 2-3 rounds) [1]

THIS IS ACTUALLY QUITE SIMPLE. I'm happy to be returning officer.

Each proposed method should be written up as it would appear in the rules
before the meeting. It should be in 6 Ranking I think, with possible
exceptions noted elsewhere as well (e.g. the racial modifiers affecting EP
earned rather than spent, as in the current rules).


Cheers
Errol



[1] to demonstrate the mechanics (which is what happens with things like
political parties selecting candidates for seats):

3 Methods proposed
Round 1: M1 10 votes; M2 8 votes; M3 5 votes
Round 2: M2 11 votes; M2 12 votes
Method 2 adopted



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mandos Mitchinson [mailto:mandos@allowed.to]
> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Discounts
> 
> 
> 
> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the 
> following.
> 
> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other 
> Discounts and
> applied first.
> 
> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the 
> cost then the
> 10-60% from skill.
> 
> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and 
> it is nice an
> easy to apply. If people are happy can we get it added to the 
> Agenda for the
> next GM's Meeting.
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 

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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Discounts</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is a risk with this issue that no particular =
calculation method has clear majority approval. However, what is more =
important IMO than the method used is that it is consistent for all =
characters.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Therefore I suggest that we firstly vote that the =
most popular method is adopted (rather than putting up a series of =
Method1 Y/N; Method2 Y/N; Method3 Y/N).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We possibly want to decide at this stage how to =
handle previous rankings done using methods other than that ultimately =
adopted.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Then we do multi-round voting to find the most =
popular, with the least popular choice each round dropping out (I =
expect we will have 3-4 methods, so 2-3 rounds) [1]</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>THIS IS ACTUALLY QUITE SIMPLE. I'm happy to be =
returning officer.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Each proposed method should be written up as it would =
appear in the rules before the meeting. It should be in 6 Ranking I =
think, with possible exceptions noted elsewhere as well (e.g. the =
racial modifiers affecting EP earned rather than spent, as in the =
current rules).</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>[1] to demonstrate the mechanics (which is what =
happens with things like political parties selecting candidates for =
seats):</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>3 Methods proposed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Round 1: M1 10 votes; M2 8 votes; M3 5 votes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Round 2: M2 11 votes; M2 12 votes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Method 2 adopted</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Mandos Mitchinson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:mandos@allowed.to">mailto:mandos@allowed.to</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: [dq] Discounts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; After giving it some more thought I would like =
to propose the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; following.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly =
from all other </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Discounts and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; applied first.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; So in the case of the thief the 50% discount =
applies to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; cost then the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 10-60% from skill.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Seems to be what people are currently doing in =
some cases and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; it is nice an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; easy to apply. If people are happy can we get =
it added to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Agenda for the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; next GM's Meeting.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; /s</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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Subject[dq] Rewards For Scribe Notes (was correction to Autumn minutes)
FromErrol Cavit
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 09:29:26 +1200
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I'm not sure if this is stated somewhere currently, but presumably whatever
reward is given isn't actually 'handed over' until the scribe notes are in
the Guild Library? 

Should the submitted version be treated as a 'night' (or two?) for reward
purposes? I find value in Notes that are modified for submission from what
the party found most useful while playing (and I don't just mean removing
parts to sealed sections).

Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz [mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 11:56
> 
> Rewards For Scribe Notes:
> 
> Ian Wood will put forward a suggestion on DQ-discussion for 
> development. The suggestion includes several standards of 
> excellence. Range of reward is 100 EP per night, plus up to 
> an additional 150 EP per night for excellence (brevity, 
> comprehension, accuracy, timeliness, regularity of 
> circulation, structure etc).
> 

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>Rewards For Scribe Notes (was correction to Autumn =
minutes)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm not sure if this is stated somewhere currently, =
but presumably whatever reward is given isn't actually 'handed over' =
until the scribe notes are in the Guild Library? </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Should the submitted version be treated as a 'night' =
(or two?) for reward purposes? I find value in Notes that are modified =
for submission from what the party found most useful while playing (and =
I don't just mean removing parts to sealed sections).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</A>]</F=
ONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2005 11:56</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Rewards For Scribe Notes:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Ian Wood will put forward a suggestion on =
DQ-discussion for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; development. The suggestion includes several =
standards of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; excellence. Range of reward is 100 EP per =
night, plus up to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; an additional 150 EP per night for excellence =
(brevity, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; comprehension, accuracy, timeliness, regularity =
of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; circulation, structure etc).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 15:19:47 +1200 (NZST)
Yes Healer abilities are considered to have worked until they fail.

Yes a Healer can stop the effects of a poison as long as they keep trying to fix it.

It rarely happens in combat because the healer is better off casting their spells or wielding
their items in combat.
If a healer were able to take one or two pulses to cure someone who is poisoned in the middle of
combat then they might do so.  Otherwise what happens is they trigger a Trollskin or Petit Mort or
Hibernation if they have one to stop the poisoned person from dying then carry on with something
effective until the combat is resolved.  Or the lower level approach is to pour a waters of
healing down them and hope it's a natural poison.

My point is that Healer doesn't usually use their skill in combat because it is not a good use of
their time.
Tactically you are better off telling the poisoned person to fight to the death and you'll rez
them later so that you only lose one effective person from the combat as opposed to losing the
healer and the patient for the minutes it takes to cure them.
If curing poison only takes a pulse then the balance changes and it probably is worth getting the
poisoned person and the healer out of melee so they can spend that pulse and both rejoin.


But I think that's all irrelevent as the problem is not with Healer.  It's that poisons are boring
(only doing damage as I mentioned before).

Cheers, Stephen.

>
> er, i thought healer abilities stopped the progress of wounds, and i would expect that to extend
> to poisons. Am i wrong?
>
> It may take several minutes or even an hour to comepltely negate the ill effects of a poison,
> and that is one of their benefits to the game (PCs have to pay more attention to them and not
> just quaff another potion). As long as the effects are suspended whilst the healer is
> 'ministering' to the fallen (er healing them, not knicking their boots)
>
> I would prefer poisons to take longer than a normal blow to cure. and to linger. it is hard
> enough to kill PCs as it is, and i want it easier.
>
> poisons should, imHo, not be combat friendly. they should be very unfriendly to any afflicted by
> them. they should require the PCs to get out of combat quickly so that the fallen can be healed.
> I beleive GMs need options on how to slow or hinder a party, rather than just damage them, and i
> look to poisons to help in this.
>
> cheers Ian
>
>>
>> From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net>
>> Date: 2005/04/25 Mon PM 10:39:18 GMT+12:00
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Subject: Re: [dq] Healer
>>
>> I believe that one of the reasons behind some of the changes were to make the combat related
>> healer abilities more combat friendly.
>>
>> The problem used to be that the healer cure poison ability took so long that it was never used
>> and people acquired items and abilites to get rid of the poisons.  Or they just put up with
>> the poison and took healing potions until it went away or the combat was over and the healer
>> could attend to them.
>>
>> If the rules lead to the Healer being the person least likely to be able to cure the poison
>> then there's something wrong with the rules. - IMO :-)
>>
>>
>> But I think the key problem here is that poisons just do more damage in varying amounts.  And
>> basically they're boring and usually  not as effective as a combat spell.
>> If we were to address the poison issues and make them more interesting then the effects of
>> "miraculous" healing could be written into the poison effects too.  So Healers might be able
>> to stop the sleepy poison instantly but only be able to temporarily supress the poison that
>> makes you vomit every time you eat. (as an arbitrary and not thought through example).
>>
>> Cheers, Stephen.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson
>> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:08 a.m.
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Subject: [dq] Healer
>>
>>
>> It came up in a game just recently that the Healer skill of Remove poison now only takes 5
>> seconds.
>>
>> The main thing I note was that none of the players in the game were aware of it, it was only
>> found while people were loking to see how many minutes it would take.
>>
>> I am sure this is the kind of thing that was discussed and voted on etc, but I was wondering
>> what the rational was behind it? It just seems a bit quick and easy.
>>
>> It also seems that a lot of people are still playing the old times which makes me think it may
>> mot be a change worth hanging onto and going back to the old timings may be appropriate.
>>
>> Mandos
>> /s
>>
>>
>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>>
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 15:37:02 +1200 (NZST)
Am I missing something?

I believe that Mandos proposed that discounts are grouped by racial vs non-racial then multiplied
_not_ all individually multiplied.

For some skills there is no difference.  For others there is a big difference.
E.g.
1. Thieves get EP Cost * Halfling Racial Discount * Higher Rank Spy Discount. - No Difference
either way (and yes I do know the Spy discount is going away but its an easy example).
2. Courtiers get EP Cost * Elven Racial Discount * (AG Discount + PB Discount).
  As opposed to EP Cost * Elven Racial Discount * AG Discount * PB Discount.

As opposed to the method that causes the originally raised problem which is EP Cost * (Elven
Racial Discount + AG Discount + PB Discount).  Which I believe we all agree is problematic.

Cheers, Stephen.

DSL AK said:
> If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos' racial
> proposal happens automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are
> stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been doing for some time. Most people
> use spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam is a person too).
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson
> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Discounts
>
>
>
> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the following.
>
> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other Discounts and applied first.
>
> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the cost then the 10-60% from skill.
>
> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and it is nice an easy to apply. If
> people are happy can we get it added to the Agenda for the next GM's Meeting.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 15:44:21 +1200
Stephen,
As you say, there is a difference between what Mandos proposed and what
Ian and I replied with. Ian and I believe that multipling all discounts
is the most common method. We are also suggesting this is preferable to
Mandos' proposal. Errol then suggests a vote to determine the prefered
solution.

Ian - please correct me if I am misinterpreting your email.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 3:37 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts


Am I missing something?

I believe that Mandos proposed that discounts are grouped by racial vs
non-racial then multiplied _not_ all individually multiplied.

For some skills there is no difference.  For others there is a big
difference. E.g. 1. Thieves get EP Cost * Halfling Racial Discount *
Higher Rank Spy Discount. - No Difference either way (and yes I do know
the Spy discount is going away but its an easy example). 2. Courtiers
get EP Cost * Elven Racial Discount * (AG Discount + PB Discount).
  As opposed to EP Cost * Elven Racial Discount * AG Discount * PB
Discount.

As opposed to the method that causes the originally raised problem which
is EP Cost * (Elven Racial Discount + AG Discount + PB Discount).  Which
I believe we all agree is problematic.

Cheers, Stephen.

DSL AK said:
> If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos' racial 
> proposal happens automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are 
> stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been doing 
> for some time. Most people use spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam 
> is a person too).
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf 
> Of Mandos Mitchinson
> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Discounts
>
>
>
> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the 
> following.
>
> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other Discounts 
> and applied first.
>
> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the cost then 
> the 10-60% from skill.
>
> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and it is 
> nice an easy to apply. If people are happy can we get it added to the 
> Agenda for the next GM's Meeting.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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SubjectRe: [dq] Healer
FromBernard Hoggins
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 13:45:50 +1000 (EST)
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Currently Poisons take a fraction of the time to cure than a normal blow.  Normal Endurance damage takes 11-rank minutes to cure, compared to the listed 5 seconds for Neutralize Poison.
 
However, on the front of the time and healers not being able to do it in the middle of a combat, there are spells out there that can deal with poison, and they are somewhat sidelined by having a healer able to do it in 5 seconds.  Why put up with a minute of burning from a cleansing flame when the healer can do it in a pulse.

dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:
I would prefer poisons to take longer than a normal blow to cure. and to linger. it is hard enough to kill PCs as it is, and i want it easier.

From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk


---------------------------------
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

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<DIV>Currently Poisons take a fraction of the time to cure than a normal blow.&nbsp; Normal Endurance damage takes 11-rank minutes to cure, compared to the listed 5 seconds for Neutralize Poison.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>However, on the front of the time and healers not being able to do it in the middle of a combat, there are spells out there that can deal with poison, and they are somewhat sidelined by having a healer able to do it in 5 seconds.&nbsp; Why put up with a minute of burning from a cleansing flame when the healer can do it in a pulse.<BR><BR><B><I>dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I would prefer poisons to take longer than a normal blow to cure. and to linger. it is hard enough to kill PCs as it is, and i want it easier.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p><br><hr size=1>
Find local movie times and trailers on <a href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com" target=_blank><b>Yahoo! Movies.</b></a><br>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 15:52:26 +1200 (NZST)
Thank you.  The way I read your email and Ian's was that you were supporting Mandos' proposal of
multiplying all discounts.  Which was contrary to what I thought he proposed.


DSL AK said:
> Stephen,
> As you say, there is a difference between what Mandos proposed and what Ian and I replied with.
> Ian and I believe that multipling all discounts is the most common method. We are also
> suggesting this is preferable to Mandos' proposal. Errol then suggests a vote to determine the
> prefered solution.
>
> Ian - please correct me if I am misinterpreting your email.
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Stephen Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 3:37 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts
>
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> I believe that Mandos proposed that discounts are grouped by racial vs non-racial then
> multiplied _not_ all individually multiplied.
>
> For some skills there is no difference.  For others there is a big difference. E.g. 1. Thieves
> get EP Cost * Halfling Racial Discount * Higher Rank Spy Discount. - No Difference either way
> (and yes I do know the Spy discount is going away but its an easy example). 2. Courtiers get EP
> Cost * Elven Racial Discount * (AG Discount + PB Discount).
>   As opposed to EP Cost * Elven Racial Discount * AG Discount * PB
> Discount.
>
> As opposed to the method that causes the originally raised problem which is EP Cost * (Elven
> Racial Discount + AG Discount + PB Discount).  Which I believe we all agree is problematic.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> DSL AK said:
>> If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos' racial  proposal happens
>> automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are  stopped. This is also what a large number of
>> people have been doing  for some time. Most people use spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam
>> is a person too).
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf  Of Mandos Mitchinson
>> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.
>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
>> Subject: [dq] Discounts
>>
>>
>>
>> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the
>> following.
>>
>> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other Discounts  and applied first.
>>
>> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the cost then  the 10-60% from skill.
>>
>> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and it is  nice an easy to apply. If
>> people are happy can we get it added to the  Agenda for the next GM's Meeting.
>>
>> Mandos
>> /s
>>
>>
>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromErrol Cavit
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 17:05:44 +1200
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What you mean by 'every discount' needs to be further defined. Taken to it's
illogical extreme, this would mean treating each EP cost modifier available
within each skill in the rules as a separate 'discount'
e.g. A Courtier with PB 14 and AG 23 has cost of EP * (0.9) * (1.1) = EP *
0.99, rather than the EP * 1 + (0.1 - 0.1) = EP * 1.00 that I think we all
consider correct, and what those drafting each individual skill intended as
default.



Therefore can your proposal be better given as:

Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd column p9) are
applied to the EP earned.
EP cost modifiers within each Skill or other rules section[1] have
percentages added together.
The resulting EP cost modifier percentages from each Skill or other rules
section are then multiplied together.
??


Mandos's would be 
Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd column p9) are
applied to the EP earned.
EP cost modifier percentages from '2.2 Race' are multiplied with the result
of adding together all other EP cost modifier percentages.

I think we can drop the current languages 50% 'cap' for either proposal.


The other alternative would seem to be:
Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd column p9) are
applied to the EP earned.
All EP cost modifier percentages are added together, except that [some
yet-to-be-determined way of stopping the couple of silly results]


[1] A 'section' being one of e.g. 27 The College of Witchcraft (Ver 1.1), 28
Skills, 29 Adventuring Skills (Ver 1.0), 30 Alchemist (Ver 1.0) etc.


The wording I've given can probably be improved, but I think it makes the
proposals unambiguous.


Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:23
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts
> 
> 
> If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos' racial
> proposal happens automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are
> stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been 
> doing for
> some time. Most people use spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam is a
> person too).
> 
> Andrew
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On 
> Behalf Of
> Mandos Mitchinson
> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Discounts
> 
> 
> 
> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the 
> following.
> 
> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other Discounts
> and applied first.
> 
> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the cost then
> the 10-60% from skill.
> 
> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and 
> it is nice
> an easy to apply. If people are happy can we get it added to 
> the Agenda
> for the next GM's Meeting.
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What you mean by 'every discount' needs to be further =
defined. Taken to it's illogical extreme, this would mean treating each =
EP cost modifier available within each skill in the rules as a separate =
'discount'</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>e.g. A Courtier with PB 14 and AG 23 has cost of EP * =
(0.9) * (1.1) =3D EP * 0.99, rather than the EP * 1 + (0.1 - 0.1) =3D =
EP * 1.00 that I think we all consider correct, and what those drafting =
each individual skill intended as default.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Therefore can your proposal be better given =
as:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at =
top of 3rd column p9) are applied to the EP earned.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EP cost modifiers within each Skill or other rules =
section[1] have percentages added together.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The resulting EP cost modifier percentages from each =
Skill or other rules section are then multiplied together.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>??</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mandos's would be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at =
top of 3rd column p9) are applied to the EP earned.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EP cost modifier percentages from '2.2 Race' are =
multiplied with the result of adding together all other EP cost =
modifier percentages.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think we can drop the current languages 50% 'cap' =
for either proposal.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The other alternative would seem to be:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at =
top of 3rd column p9) are applied to the EP earned.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>All EP cost modifier percentages are added together, =
except that [some yet-to-be-determined way of stopping the couple of =
silly results]</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>[1] A 'section' being one of e.g. 27 The College of =
Witchcraft (Ver 1.1), 28 Skills, 29 Adventuring Skills (Ver 1.0), 30 =
Alchemist (Ver 1.0) etc.</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The wording I've given can probably be improved, but =
I think it makes the proposals unambiguous.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</A>]<=
/FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:23</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; If every discount is multiplied individually, =
then Mandos' racial</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; proposal happens automatically, and stupid =
cumulative bonuses are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; stopped. This is also what a large number of =
people have been </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; doing for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; some time. Most people use spreadsheets these =
days (yes, Wililam is a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; person too).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Andrew</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] =
On </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos Mitchinson</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: [dq] Discounts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; After giving it some more thought I would like =
to propose the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; following.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly =
from all other Discounts</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and applied first.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; So in the case of the thief the 50% discount =
applies to the cost then</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the 10-60% from skill.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Seems to be what people are currently doing in =
some cases and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; it is nice</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; an easy to apply. If people are happy can we =
get it added to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the Agenda</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; for the next GM's Meeting.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; /s</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Discounts
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateTue, 26 Apr 2005 18:54:53 +1200
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"All modifiers are cumulative" is a common phrase in DQ rules applying
to multiple modifiers in a single section. Cumulative means "increasing
by successive additions". Works for me.
=20
The EP cost of each ability improved is multiplied by all applicable EP
modifiers. Note that Racial EM (see 2.2 Race) is a divisor.=20
The EP cost of each ability improved is adjusted by the product of all
applicable EP modifiers, then divided by the Racial EM (see 2.2 Race).
etc.
=20
Its actually really simple. Please keep it that way.
=20
Andrew
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 5:06 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts



	What you mean by 'every discount' needs to be further defined.
Taken to it's illogical extreme, this would mean treating each EP cost
modifier available within each skill in the rules as a separate
'discount'

	e.g. A Courtier with PB 14 and AG 23 has cost of EP * (0.9) *
(1.1) =3D EP * 0.99, rather than the EP * 1 + (0.1 - 0.1) =3D EP * 1.00 =
that
I think we all consider correct, and what those drafting each individual
skill intended as default.



	Therefore can your proposal be better given as:=20

	Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd
column p9) are applied to the EP earned.=20
	EP cost modifiers within each Skill or other rules section[1]
have percentages added together.=20
	The resulting EP cost modifier percentages from each Skill or
other rules section are then multiplied together.=20
	??=20


	Mandos's would be=20
	Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd
column p9) are applied to the EP earned.=20
	EP cost modifier percentages from '2.2 Race' are multiplied with
the result of adding together all other EP cost modifier percentages.

	I think we can drop the current languages 50% 'cap' for either
proposal.=20


	The other alternative would seem to be:=20
	Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd
column p9) are applied to the EP earned.=20
	All EP cost modifier percentages are added together, except that
[some yet-to-be-determined way of stopping the couple of silly results]


	[1] A 'section' being one of e.g. 27 The College of Witchcraft
(Ver 1.1), 28 Skills, 29 Adventuring Skills (Ver 1.0), 30 Alchemist (Ver
1.0) etc.


	The wording I've given can probably be improved, but I think it
makes the proposals unambiguous.=20


	Cheers=20
	Errol=20

	> -----Original Message-----=20
	> From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]=20
	> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:23=20
	> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
	> Subject: Re: [dq] Discounts=20
	>=20
	>=20
	> If every discount is multiplied individually, then Mandos'
racial=20
	> proposal happens automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses
are=20
	> stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been=20
	> doing for=20
	> some time. Most people use spreadsheets these days (yes,
Wililam is a=20
	> person too).=20
	>=20
	> Andrew=20
	>=20
	> -----Original Message-----=20
	> From: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] On=20
	> Behalf Of=20
	> Mandos Mitchinson=20
	> Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 11:07 a.m.=20
	> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
	> Subject: [dq] Discounts=20
	>=20
	>=20
	>=20
	> After giving it some more thought I would like to propose the=20
	> following.=20
	>=20
	> Racial Discounts should be Handled seperatly from all other
Discounts=20
	> and applied first.=20
	>=20
	> So in the case of the thief the 50% discount applies to the
cost then=20
	> the 10-60% from skill.=20
	>=20
	> Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and=20
	> it is nice=20
	> an easy to apply. If people are happy can we get it added to=20
	> the Agenda=20
	> for the next GM's Meeting.=20
	>=20
	> Mandos=20
	> /s=20
	>=20
	>=20
	> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --=20
	>=20


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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>"All modifiers are cumulative" is a common phrase in DQ rules =
applying to=20
multiple modifiers in a single section. Cumulative means "increasing by=20
successive additions". Works for me.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT size=3D2>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT size=3D2>The EP cost of each =
<FONT=20
size=3D2>ability improved is multiplied by a</FONT>ll applicable EP =
modifiers<FONT=20
size=3D2>.</FONT><FONT size=3D3> </FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2>Note that =
Racial EM (see=20
2.2 Race) is a divisor.
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT size=3D2>The EP cost of each =
<FONT=20
size=3D2>ability improved is adjusted by the product of a</FONT>ll =
applicable EP=20
modifiers,&nbsp;then divided by the </FONT><FONT size=3D2>Racial EM (see =
2.2=20
Race).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>etc.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>Its actually=20
really simple. Please keep it that way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SP=
AN><SPAN=20
class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D822514106-26042005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Errol=20
Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 26 April 2005 5:06 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] =
Discounts<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <P><FONT size=3D2>What you mean by 'every discount' needs to be =
further defined.=20
  Taken to it's illogical extreme, this would mean treating each EP cost =

  modifier available within each skill in the rules as a separate=20
  'discount'</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>e.g. A Courtier with PB 14 and AG 23 has cost of EP =
* (0.9) *=20
  (1.1) =3D EP * 0.99, rather than the EP * 1 + (0.1 - 0.1) =3D EP * =
1.00 that I=20
  think we all consider correct, and what those drafting each individual =
skill=20
  intended as default.</FONT></P><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Therefore can your proposal be better given =
as:</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at =
top of 3rd=20
  column p9) are applied to the EP earned.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>EP =
cost=20
  modifiers within each Skill or other rules section[1] have percentages =
added=20
  together.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>The resulting EP cost modifier =
percentages=20
  from each Skill or other rules section are then multiplied =
together.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>??</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Mandos's would be </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>Racial =
modifiers per=20
  start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd column p9) are applied to the =
EP=20
  earned.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>EP cost modifier percentages from =
'2.2 Race'=20
  are multiplied with the result of adding together all other EP cost =
modifier=20
  percentages.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>I think we can drop the current languages 50% 'cap' =
for either=20
  proposal.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>The other alternative would seem to be:</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Racial modifiers per start of '2.2 Race' (table at top of 3rd =
column=20
  p9) are applied to the EP earned.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>All EP =
cost modifier=20
  percentages are added together, except that [some yet-to-be-determined =
way of=20
  stopping the couple of silly results]</FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>[1] A 'section' being one of e.g. 27 The College of =
Witchcraft=20
  (Ver 1.1), 28 Skills, 29 Adventuring Skills (Ver 1.0), 30 Alchemist =
(Ver 1.0)=20
  etc.</FONT></P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>The wording I've given can probably be improved, but =
I think=20
  it makes the proposals unambiguous.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</A>]</=
FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2005 08:23</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
Subject: Re: [dq]=20
  Discounts</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; If every discount is multiplied =
individually,=20
  then Mandos' racial</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; proposal happens=20
  automatically, and stupid cumulative bonuses are</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  stopped. This is also what a large number of people have been =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; doing for</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; some time. Most =
people use=20
  spreadsheets these days (yes, Wililam is a</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt; person=20
  too).</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
Andrew</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; -----Original=20
  Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; From: =
owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz [<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] =
On=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Behalf Of</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt; Mandos=20
  Mitchinson</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 25 April 2005 =
11:07=20
  a.m.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; Subject: [dq] Discounts</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; After giving it some more thought I would like to =
propose the=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; following.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Racial Discounts should be Handled =
seperatly from=20
  all other Discounts</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; and applied =
first.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; So in the case =
of the thief=20
  the 50% discount applies to the cost then</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt; the=20
  10-60% from skill.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  Seems to be what people are currently doing in some cases and =
</FONT><BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; it is nice</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; an easy to =
apply. If=20
  people are happy can we get it added to </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
the=20
  Agenda</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; for the next GM's =
Meeting.</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; Mandos</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; /s</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; </FONT><BR><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  </FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A=
>=20
  --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>&gt; =
</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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