Well honestly I am semi in favour of the idea thou I
would personally like to know that all the recipe's
had limits similar to the perception booster that has
already been listed i.e raises to a maximum of 15.

The other thing would be to be careful with the type
of recipe's allowed as I know from experience that in
a MMORG that new things sometimes make previously
considered stock standard items redundant and I would
hate to se this happen here... I would be interested
to see the idea given a test run through a few
*eckhem* trustworthy players/GMS/monsters under the
stairs.

adding in new and interesting ways for people to
interact with each other would overall be a benefit to
the world thou I agree with Mandos that this could
quickly and easily become a power grab run if not
carefully maintained and structured.

Oh and it would be worth asking around to find out if
any players already have something similar
currently... I know my witch for example has a recipe
for an amulet not listed in the main DQ book (thou
that is only Jasper Amulets) and I know it has meant I
can trade for interesting and weird items to add to my
bag of tricks without unbalancing the character.

Zane

"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them."

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I suppose my thoughts on this idea are (another 2cp worth):

I like this idea as it’s a way of improving the fantasy game we all love
which is DQ (even if its not perfect, has faults in several areas etc)
there are just things that need to be discussed further.

I’m all for more for PC’s to do in terms of reasons to live, interact with
the world etc

But some Fundamental issues are:
WHAT IS BROKEN THAT THESE RECIPES NEED TO REPLACE?

>> Quest vs. Cash system <<
Answer: See a GM, discuss what you are thinking and if possible they think
of an adventure for you to complete to achieve your aim.     This is
becoming more an more prevalent with a move away from full written
scenarios to looser missions with set objectives which are usually
tailored to PC wishes or at times requirements of the DQ campaign world.

Questing is what the game is all about, GM’s present a mission with
specified goals and rewards and the PC chooses to go on the mission or
not.   Payment is often cash or equivalent for the mission and
commensurate to the level of challenge involved.

If we are players in a medieval world then we would surely be similar to
knights of the time. By this I am meaning PC’s are largely independent of
authority, able to support themselves (& their family) and can buy what
they require.

Most PC’s don’t go on adventure for cash but for other rewards or for the
chance to better the world.    But if PC’s do adventure for money this
means they can then use the money to buy furniture, anti rat rocks etc.   
The cash system means that PC’s are then able to learn skills and spend
vast amounts of time doing ranking etc without having to earn an a
constant income.


>> PC’s working towards things that they cannot normally do <<
Answer:  Develop the appropriate skill-set to allow creation of items.
EG an item to keep rocks away from houses.   Perhaps a combination of
Herbalist applying a particular salve, which the rock absorbs and then
releases over time as a gas inimical to rats in a set area.   The other
part of this is a geologist, miner etc finding the appropriate rock

PC’s should be encouraged to do these sorts of things, which enhance the
interaction with the DQ universe and provide alternative ways to earn
income, prestige, competition (with stoat breeders etc)


>> Players can for the most part not make anything for themselves <<
Answer: learn skills rather than combat orientated abilities such as
baking (we all enjoy chocolate cakes) or learn the non combat spells such
as blessing on crops or unborn children (perfect for wandering around and
getting money from poor hard working farmers or stressed mothers).
DQ has skills so that PC's can make all sorts of things they just need to
learn appropraiet skills.

>> Players should be able to guide their own directions. <<
Absoulutely PCs can do whatever they want to do, they can adventure or
not, they can fight or not, they can create or not, they can discover or
not, they can make rocks or not, they can have families or not.
DQ doesn't limit PC actions - only players do that!


>> Wicca Amulets <<
Answer: Propose changes for the college to be play-tested and then voted
in or out.


>> What power of items are we talking <<
If they are combat orientated are there not already enough ways of doing
this?   Such as herbalist potions, Enhancement spells etc?
If non-combat related then the items are just for around the home (perhaps
better decorations, bells and whistles?).


I SUGGEST YOU PROVIDE A SAMPLE LIST OF THE SORTS OF RECIPES YOU ARE
PROMOTING SO THAT EVERYONE CAN SEE WHAT THEY ARE INTENDED TO REPLACE AND
THEREFORE HOW WORTHWHILE THEY ARE


>>>>>>>>> PROBLEMS WITH THIS IDEA ARE <<<<<<<<<<<<<

POWERING UP PC’s:
This is yet another way to power up characters (as if there weren’t
already enough) so they can play higher and higher above their ‘normal’
level.
These power ups would not be college related so counter-spells wouldn’t
work and would require the GM’s to equip all their NPC’s with similar
items so as to provide a challenge to PC’s


ITEMS:
One of the problems with DQ is the fact that there are few restraints on
what GM’s give out and sometimes what they give out unbalances the game to
the detriment of others who don’t have items as whoopee.
One GM gives out an item they want to give out and other GM’s have to
rewrite the item to be playable for the PC or in some rare cases state
‘that item wont work in this adventure’

Are you asking that GM’s give out looser items, more badly written up,
freer to interpretation or merely components for various items?

Cheers
Chris

> Chris Caulfield
> I can't see what benefit these changes can bring to DQ.
>
> The key question here is:
>
> - What is lacking in the game that these recipes are needed to address?
>
> JB:
>
> Character and player determination of quests and results across a
> multi-GM-Game, independent of a single GM. I hope it will change the
> culture from a cash system to quest system.
>
> This is an opportunity to allow characters to work towards things that
> they can not normally do - such as make a rock which keeps rats away
> from a house, Talk to the dead. Etc The use of write-ups was intended
> from the start so players can swap with other players at guild meetings.
> I hope that the requirements of places/events/skills and time and
> write-ups for ingredient - will limit if not completely stop the heavy
> involvement of wide scale NPC, but retain the system it in the hands of
> characters and players.
>
>
>
> I am an ex EQ player and I know about all these from that style of
> gaming.
>
> But EQ is about gaining better and better items either by discovery or
>
> creation and no actual Roleplaying which is what DQ is about.   Online
>
> gaming cannot replicate the play of a bunch of PC's in a room together
>
> discussing actions, reactions etc.
>
>
>
> JB:
>
> Forget EQ I don't think it is relevant.
>
>
>
> We have Shapers to create items, Wicca for amulets and other colleges
>
> create various other items for use by PC's.  This means that the
> colleges
>
> and the PC's choices (of colleges (or non colleges), weapons, skills
>
> etc)determine what they can and cannot do rather than their equipment.
>
>
>
> JB:
>
> Wicca amulets are broke. Players can for the most part not make anything
> for themselves, such as a rock to keep rats away. Look upon this as a
> formal system for quests.
>
>
>
>
>
> In DQ we gain items for use and a lot of times to fit with the PC's
>
> character, persona etc but the main thing is the Roleplaying of the PC
> by
>
> a player.
>
>
>
> JB:
>
> I agree - but again GMs give out items and its all about freeing the
> restraints that GMs have to do all the work. Players should be able to
> guide their own directions.
>
>
>
> Apologies Jono, these sound like I'm slating your ideas for the sake of
> it
>
> but I'm not, I just like the DQ system the way it is - with all its
>
> foibles, faults and issues.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of developing PC interactions with the world,
> environment
>
> & geography that are outside of guild missions and developing contacts,
>
> influencing events, building relationships etc, however I too retain the
>
> cynacism Andrew has expressed.
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> JB:
>
> I don't think I can not help you with you cynacism.
>
>


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At 01:33 1/06/05, you wrote:
>Oh and it would be worth asking around to find out if
>any players already have something similar
>currently... I know my witch for example has a recipe
>for an amulet not listed in the main DQ book (thou
>that is only Jasper Amulets) and I know it has meant I
>can trade for interesting and weird items to add to my
>bag of tricks without unbalancing the character.

Of interest would be a recipe Starflower has...


Royalberries

A quarter-cup of these hard, small, round, purple-brown berries must be 
prepared by a chef or herbalist of Rank 2; or an alchemist of Rank 3. When 
crushed & infused in 9 cups of simmering hot water, 6-8 dosses of "Mulled 
Royalberry" are produced. This is the "perfect" recipe: smaller amounts may 
be prepared, in proportion, but such attempts frequently fail. The Mulled 
Royalberry must be drunk within minutes of its preparation. It has a 
distinct but hard-to-describe minty, chocolatey, honey-smooth, coffee-like 
taste.
One drinking it gains +2 Strength; +2 Fatigue & +2 Endurance for 2 hours 
(racial & personal limits may be exceeded). Furthermore, if the Drinker's 
Perception is 10 or less, the Mulled Royalberry increases that perception 
up to 12 for those two hours.
Multiple doses have no special or deleterious effect (but a second cup does 
taste even nicer).
Related, but narcotically addictive, effects may be obtained by smoking or 
chewing the leaves of the bush; usually increased Perception and Paranoia. 
The leaves are a slow poison if swallowed. The berries may be harvested 
without harming the plant, but plucking the leaves damages the bush. 
Plucked berries have a shelf life of 10 weeks if kept dry. At present, this 
party member is assigned one half cup share at each Summer Solstice & every 
Equinox.

Now, that is rather more powerful than anything I have seen presented in 
this discussion. However, as a unique "item", generally used once  per 
session in anticipation of running into the "big bad" it does not seem to 
have caused any problems, especially since the supply is strictly limited, 
and has a stated shelf-life.

Such recipes do make interesting treasure items. Obtaining this one 
required Starflower to be proactive in looking for unusual herbs, and use 
her herbalist skills to take and pot a cutting, and get it safely back to 
the guild. Introduced in this way, recipes can add colour to the game and 
to the uniqueness of characters... which is all good, as long as they are 
controlled. So...

1. Creation times and shelf-life should be noted for all alchemical and 
herbalist concoctions, including poisons.
2. Quantities should be limited by availability of components, so that they 
are rarely on-sold.
3. The character should have to work for the recipe.... they should be 
required to use their skills and/or do research.
4. If plants are used the recipe will generally be considered herbal and 
use the herbalist skill... if animal or mineral products are used it will 
usually be alchemical and use the alchemist skill.
5. Whether or not the concoction stakes with magical bonuses and whether 
limits can be exceeded should be clearly noted.
6. Recipes should not be generally available, but if a character is 
prepared to do the research, and has appropriate skill levels, they may be 
able to find a way to make use of odd and unusual items found while 
adventuring. This reflects the real world where herbal and alchemical 
recipes were jealously guarded.
7. If characters do not have appropriate skill levels, this research could 
be a matter of finding the NPC who is capable of turning the item into 
something useful.... much like finding a skilled armourer capable of 
turning your weirdhide into protection.
8. Recipes should always be looked over by multiple GMs to check that they 
are clearly written up and properly balanced.

Just my five copper pieces worth,
Jacqui


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<html>
<body>
At 01:33 1/06/05, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Oh and it would be worth asking
around to find out if<br>
any players already have something similar<br>
currently... I know my witch for example has a recipe<br>
for an amulet not listed in the main DQ book (thou<br>
that is only Jasper Amulets) and I know it has meant I<br>
can trade for interesting and weird items to add to my<br>
bag of tricks without unbalancing the character. </blockquote><br>
Of interest would be a recipe Starflower has...<br><br>
<h4><b>Royalberries</b></h4>A quarter-cup of these hard, small, round,
purple-brown berries must be prepared by a chef or herbalist of Rank 2;
or an alchemist of Rank 3. When crushed &amp; infused in 9 cups of
simmering hot water, 6-8 dosses of &quot;Mulled Royalberry&quot; are
produced. This is the &quot;perfect&quot; recipe: smaller amounts may be
prepared, in proportion, but such attempts frequently fail. The Mulled
Royalberry must be drunk within minutes of its preparation. It has a
distinct but hard-to-describe minty, chocolatey, honey-smooth,
coffee-like taste.<br>
One drinking it gains +2 Strength; +2 Fatigue &amp; +2 Endurance for 2
hours (racial &amp; personal limits may be exceeded). Furthermore, if the
Drinker's Perception is 10 or less, the Mulled Royalberry increases that
perception up to 12 for those two hours.<br>
Multiple doses have no special or deleterious effect (but a second cup
does taste even nicer).<br>
Related, but narcotically addictive, effects may be obtained by smoking
or chewing the leaves of the bush; usually increased Perception and
Paranoia. The leaves are a slow poison if swallowed. The berries may be
harvested without harming the plant, but plucking the leaves damages the
bush. Plucked berries have a shelf life of 10 weeks if kept dry. At
present, this party member is assigned one half cup share at each Summer
Solstice &amp; every Equinox.<br><br>
Now, that is rather more powerful than anything I have seen presented in
this discussion. However, as a unique &quot;item&quot;, generally used
once&nbsp; per session in anticipation of running into the &quot;big
bad&quot; it does not seem to have caused any problems, especially since
the supply is strictly limited, and has a stated shelf-life.<br><br>
Such recipes do make interesting treasure items. Obtaining this one
required Starflower to be proactive in looking for unusual herbs, and use
her herbalist skills to take and pot a cutting, and get it safely back to
the guild. Introduced in this way, recipes can add colour to the game and
to the uniqueness of characters... which is all good, as long as they are
controlled. So...<br><br>
1. Creation times and shelf-life should be noted for all alchemical and
herbalist concoctions, including poisons.<br>
2. Quantities should be limited by availability of components, so that
they are rarely on-sold.<br>
3. The character should have to work for the recipe.... they should be
required to use their skills and/or do research.<br>
4. If plants are used the recipe will generally be considered herbal and
use the herbalist skill... if animal or mineral products are used it will
usually be alchemical and use the alchemist skill.<br>
5. Whether or not the concoction stakes with magical bonuses and whether
limits can be exceeded should be clearly noted.<br>
6. Recipes should not be generally available, but if a character is
prepared to do the research, and has appropriate skill levels, they may
be able to find a way to make use of odd and unusual items found while
adventuring. This reflects the real world where herbal and alchemical
recipes were jealously guarded. <br>
7. If characters do not have appropriate skill levels, this research
could be a matter of finding the NPC who is capable of turning the item
into something useful.... much like finding a skilled armourer capable of
turning your weirdhide into protection.<br>
8. Recipes should always be looked over by multiple GMs to check that
they are clearly written up and properly balanced.<br><br>
Just my five copper pieces worth,<br>
Jacqui<br><br>
</body>
</html>

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As we previously discussed Viola, I would love to assist such a pretty
young lady retrieve her dear companions and hopefully even your loyal
family dogs, Maxim and Belfor. 

Has information come to light as to their whereabouts and condition ?,
has the fairy king any insights?, or should we seek the aid of those who
can find lost things ? 

As to remuneration, being morally opposed to charity, despite it being
such a worthy cause, MONEY would be of course acceptable, however I am
sure we could negotitate alternative rewards in gifts and "services" you
or your allies & minions may be able to provide as well as normal
treasure shares of course. 

Arnaud de Montfort Esq, Hell


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Ome important question I'd like to get an answer to somewhere.  Values on these things, be they generally availible to all players or just someones special thing.  If a PC learns a specific spell on adventure that is already in the college, they have to pay tax on it just like any other normal item, thus why we have GP values for quest only spells to my understanding.  So presumably 'recipies' to make magicial or quasi magical things would have similar sp values also.

Jacqui Smith <flamis@ihug.co.nz> wrote:At 01:33 1/06/05, you wrote:
Oh and it would be worth asking around to find out if
any players already have something similar
currently... I know my witch for example has a recipe
for an amulet not listed in the main DQ book (thou
that is only Jasper Amulets) and I know it has meant I
can trade for interesting and weird items to add to my
bag of tricks without unbalancing the character. 
Of interest would be a recipe Starflower has...

RoyalberriesA quarter-cup of these hard, small, round, purple-brown berries must be prepared by a chef or herbalist of Rank 2; or an alchemist of Rank 3. When crushed & infused in 9 cups of simmering hot water, 6-8 dosses of "Mulled Royalberry" are produced. This is the "perfect" recipe: smaller amounts may be prepared, in proportion, but such attempts frequently fail. The Mulled Royalberry must be drunk within minutes of its preparation. It has a distinct but hard-to-describe minty, chocolatey, honey-smooth, coffee-like taste.
One drinking it gains +2 Strength; +2 Fatigue & +2 Endurance for 2 hours (racial & personal limits may be exceeded). Furthermore, if the Drinker's Perception is 10 or less, the Mulled Royalberry increases that perception up to 12 for those two hours.
Multiple doses have no special or deleterious effect (but a second cup does taste even nicer).
Related, but narcotically addictive, effects may be obtained by smoking or chewing the leaves of the bush; usually increased Perception and Paranoia. The leaves are a slow poison if swallowed. The berries may be harvested without harming the plant, but plucking the leaves damages the bush. Plucked berries have a shelf life of 10 weeks if kept dry. At present, this party member is assigned one half cup share at each Summer Solstice & every Equinox.

Now, that is rather more powerful than anything I have seen presented in this discussion. However, as a unique "item", generally used once  per session in anticipation of running into the "big bad" it does not seem to have caused any problems, especially since the supply is strictly limited, and has a stated shelf-life.

Such recipes do make interesting treasure items. Obtaining this one required Starflower to be proactive in looking for unusual herbs, and use her herbalist skills to take and pot a cutting, and get it safely back to the guild. Introduced in this way, recipes can add colour to the game and to the uniqueness of characters... which is all good, as long as they are controlled. So...

1. Creation times and shelf-life should be noted for all alchemical and herbalist concoctions, including poisons.
2. Quantities should be limited by availability of components, so that they are rarely on-sold.
3. The character should have to work for the recipe.... they should be required to use their skills and/or do research.
4. If plants are used the recipe will generally be considered herbal and use the herbalist skill... if animal or mineral products are used it will usually be alchemical and use the alchemist skill.
5. Whether or not the concoction stakes with magical bonuses and whether limits can be exceeded should be clearly noted.
6. Recipes should not be generally available, but if a character is prepared to do the research, and has appropriate skill levels, they may be able to find a way to make use of odd and unusual items found while adventuring. This reflects the real world where herbal and alchemical recipes were jealously guarded. 
7. If characters do not have appropriate skill levels, this research could be a matter of finding the NPC who is capable of turning the item into something useful.... much like finding a skilled armourer capable of turning your weirdhide into protection.
8. Recipes should always be looked over by multiple GMs to check that they are clearly written up and properly balanced.

Just my five copper pieces worth,
Jacqui




From Bernard Hoggins
nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk


---------------------------------
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<DIV>Ome important question I'd like to get an answer to somewhere.&nbsp; Values on these things, be they generally availible to all players or just someones special thing.&nbsp; If a PC learns a specific spell on adventure that is already in the college, they have to pay tax on it just like any other normal item, thus why we have GP values for quest only spells to my understanding.&nbsp; So presumably 'recipies' to make magicial or quasi magical things would have similar sp values also.<BR><BR><B><I>Jacqui Smith &lt;flamis@ihug.co.nz&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">At 01:33 1/06/05, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Oh and it would be worth asking around to find out if<BR>any players already have something similar<BR>currently... I know my witch for example has a recipe<BR>for an amulet not listed in the main DQ book (thou<BR>that is only Jasper Amulets) and I know it has meant I<BR>can trade for interesting and weird items to add to my<BR>bag of tricks without unbalancing the character. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of interest would be a recipe Starflower has...<BR><BR>
<H4><B>Royalberries</B></H4>A quarter-cup of these hard, small, round, purple-brown berries must be prepared by a chef or herbalist of Rank 2; or an alchemist of Rank 3. When crushed &amp; infused in 9 cups of simmering hot water, 6-8 dosses of "Mulled Royalberry" are produced. This is the "perfect" recipe: smaller amounts may be prepared, in proportion, but such attempts frequently fail. The Mulled Royalberry must be drunk within minutes of its preparation. It has a distinct but hard-to-describe minty, chocolatey, honey-smooth, coffee-like taste.<BR>One drinking it gains +2 Strength; +2 Fatigue &amp; +2 Endurance for 2 hours (racial &amp; personal limits may be exceeded). Furthermore, if the Drinker's Perception is 10 or less, the Mulled Royalberry increases that perception up to 12 for those two hours.<BR>Multiple doses have no special or deleterious effect (but a second cup does taste even nicer).<BR>Related, but narcotically addictive, effects may be obtained by smoking or
 chewing the leaves of the bush; usually increased Perception and Paranoia. The leaves are a slow poison if swallowed. The berries may be harvested without harming the plant, but plucking the leaves damages the bush. Plucked berries have a shelf life of 10 weeks if kept dry. At present, this party member is assigned one half cup share at each Summer Solstice &amp; every Equinox.<BR><BR>Now, that is rather more powerful than anything I have seen presented in this discussion. However, as a unique "item", generally used once&nbsp; per session in anticipation of running into the "big bad" it does not seem to have caused any problems, especially since the supply is strictly limited, and has a stated shelf-life.<BR><BR>Such recipes do make interesting treasure items. Obtaining this one required Starflower to be proactive in looking for unusual herbs, and use her herbalist skills to take and pot a cutting, and get it safely back to the guild. Introduced in this way, recipes can add colour
 to the game and to the uniqueness of characters... which is all good, as long as they are controlled. So...<BR><BR>1. Creation times and shelf-life should be noted for all alchemical and herbalist concoctions, including poisons.<BR>2. Quantities should be limited by availability of components, so that they are rarely on-sold.<BR>3. The character should have to work for the recipe.... they should be required to use their skills and/or do research.<BR>4. If plants are used the recipe will generally be considered herbal and use the herbalist skill... if animal or mineral products are used it will usually be alchemical and use the alchemist skill.<BR>5. Whether or not the concoction stakes with magical bonuses and whether limits can be exceeded should be clearly noted.<BR>6. Recipes should not be generally available, but if a character is prepared to do the research, and has appropriate skill levels, they may be able to find a way to make use of odd and unusual items found while
 adventuring. This reflects the real world where herbal and alchemical recipes were jealously guarded. <BR>7. If characters do not have appropriate skill levels, this research could be a matter of finding the NPC who is capable of turning the item into something useful.... much like finding a skilled armourer capable of turning your weirdhide into protection.<BR>8. Recipes should always be looked over by multiple GMs to check that they are clearly written up and properly balanced.<BR><BR>Just my five copper pieces worth,<BR>Jacqui<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p><br><hr size=1>
Find local movie times and trailers on <a href="http://au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/*http://au.movies.yahoo.com" target=_blank><b>Yahoo! Movies.</b></a><br>
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Guild Security Announcement.

Due to formal announcements recently Guild memebers are requested not to
discuss matters that occour within the walls of the guild with non-members.
This is only an advisory but it is in your best interests to follow this
advisory.

Regarding the recent suicide of Henri D'guisard within the guild halls we
are releasing the following information to GUILD MEMBERS ONLY.

It appears that some form of new Greater undead has been at work north of
Brastor, we have spoken to the Duke and a party will be despatched north to
Tor's Folly to investigate and to work back along the trail to discover the
type of undead and it's aims.

Henri was not the victim of foul play by Guild Mind mages.

Guild Security


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