William Dymock wrote:

>
>     I am truly lost for words. Well actually I'm not but you're too
>     young to hear my actual opinion.
>
Play nicely William. :-)

You're quite right that there's no contradiction on Namer counterspells 
that a quick introduction to the clue stick couldn't fix.  (Although 
clue sticks sometimes appear to be in short supply). But Errol's other 
point was that 7.10 excludes from the MA req all Namer GK spells, and he 
noted at the foot of his post that:

> Disclosure: WordSmith has just acquired a non-Counterspell Namer GK spell.


Now, putting aside the oddity of this (particularly in light of 17.4 
stating that the "entire general spell knowledge of the Namer college 
consists of the ability to cast Counterspells"), 7.10 would clearly 
indicate that the new spell, being Namer, and being GK, would not count 
towards MA limit... something Errol seems to be suggesting is incorrect.

Simply dropping "and the General Knowledge spells of Namers" from 7.10 
would solve this and any possible counterspell confusion nicely.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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Stephen Martin wrote:

>If an Assassin has a 4% bonus (Rk 2 from suprise or Rk 4 from behind), is
>their chance of causing a Spec Grev:
>A) 9% of their modified Strike Chance
>or
>B) (5% of their modified SC) + 4%
>  
>
Agree with William: B.  Much easier to calculate.

The confusion is caused by the original writers' sloppy way of using % 
to usually mean actual digits or pips rolled against with D100, and then 
occasionally to actually mean percent.

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 16:30, Errol Cavit wrote:

> Disclosure: WordSmith has just acquired a non-Counterspell Namer GK
> spell.

Could you tell me where this previously unknown general knowledge spell
came from? Perhaps I can get married bachelors and invisible pink paint
from the same place.

(Apologies if there now is a standard non-counterspell namer GK spell
that I'm unaware of.)


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I probably should have mentioned it is unteachable. 


Are people so offended by a GK spell known by only one person that it should
be a SK that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared? Main effect of this
will be WS putting less priority on ranking Namer GK counterspell (as I will
want to counter this self-only spell occasionally), and a write-up that is a
bit longer - the mechanics are non-standard, but closer to Namer
Counterspells than SK.

Errol


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Woodhams [mailto:mdw@free.net.nz]
> Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 09:04
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 16:30, Errol Cavit wrote:
> 
> > Disclosure: WordSmith has just acquired a non-Counterspell Namer GK
> > spell.
> 
> Could you tell me where this previously unknown general 
> knowledge spell
> came from? Perhaps I can get married bachelors and invisible 
> pink paint
> from the same place.
> 
> (Apologies if there now is a standard non-counterspell namer GK spell
> that I'm unaware of.)
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I probably should have mentioned it is unteachable. =
</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Are people so offended by a GK spell known by only =
one person that it should be a SK that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be =
prepared? Main effect of this will be WS putting less priority on =
ranking Namer GK counterspell (as I will want to counter this self-only =
spell occasionally), and a write-up that is a bit longer - the =
mechanics are non-standard, but closer to Namer&nbsp; Counterspells =
than SK.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Michael Woodhams [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mailto:mdw@free.net.nz</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 09:04</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; On Thu, 2005-06-09 at 16:30, Errol Cavit =
wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Disclosure: WordSmith has just acquired a =
non-Counterspell Namer GK</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; spell.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Could you tell me where this previously unknown =
general </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; knowledge spell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; came from? Perhaps I can get married bachelors =
and invisible </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; pink paint</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; from the same place.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (Apologies if there now is a standard =
non-counterspell namer GK spell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; that I'm unaware of.)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
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If the war only lasts another year or two I'd be quiet happy.
I need a good short war that leaves everyone in good sprits and keen for the
next one. 
The best money to be made from war is in supply and you don't need a war for
that, just the threat of one. 
In fact an actual war is bad for business; once hostilities start you can
only sell directly to one side.
I need all these nobles to still be around with gold to spend in a few years
time. 
My retirements riding on it.

Thorn

-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Ian at dawn's haven 

You obviously slept through any lessons on fief management, and just how
expensive war is to the nobility. Taxes take time to accrue to anywhere near
what is required to outfit a knight, squire, page and either two men at arms
or 5 longbow men. 

Taxes taken for war is spent on things that don't put meat on the table,
linen on the bed, furs on the ladies and babies in the crèche (meat, linen
and furs being precursors to the babies). Few nobles can afford a drawn out
war, especially one with no prospect of loot or ransoms.

Of course, Esquires often dodged war efforts, and enjoyed the plunder
available at home from undefended manors and their ladies.

So in the long term, we need a short sharp war, where the nobles keep their
money where it belongs - generating the income that pays for our assistance
over the next decade or five.

Sir Wojer.


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On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 09:28, Errol Cavit wrote:
> I probably should have mentioned it is unteachable. 
> 
> 
> Are people so offended by a GK spell known by only one person that it
> should be a SK that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared? Main
> effect of this will be WS putting less priority on ranking Namer GK
> counterspell (as I will want to counter this self-only spell
> occasionally), and a write-up that is a bit longer - the mechanics are
> non-standard, but closer to Namer  Counterspells than SK.
> 
> Errol

I think a new spell can't be GK - by definition, GK is the stuff that
everyone in the college knows and must learn when acquiring the college.
It could be a new spell which behaves like a GK spell for ranking,
casting cost etc. - I.e. my only objection is labelling it as GK. 

And this also gives you the solution to your other problem - it is an
odd-ball not-by-standard-rules spell. It conforms to standard rules,
except where otherwise stated on the writeup. Ask the granting GM to
amend the writeup to not say it is GK, and clarify exactly in which ways
it behaves like a GK spell (including MA requirement.) Failing that, the
first GM you present the writeup to can fix it in whatever way they see
fit.


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this feels a little pedantic, and is really between Errol and his GM(s). Non-standard GK spells are out there, because it is easier to use a label than to define the same terms. If it is a non-teachable GK then that is why you don't know it. As a GM i have no problem with this. He knows it, you don't. seems simple enough for me.

but the main point is more important: Namer GK spells not counting towards MA limit.

I disagree with Martin. The exception should be explicitly stated in both Namer college and the MA limit rule. I would prefer that section be amened to read "Except for Namer GK spells at Rank 0,..."

damn i don't have the original post in front of me, oh well you get the point,

Let's add it to the list of changes... we should get around to a new book next year anyway.

Ian

> 
> From: Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz>
> Date: 2005/06/10 Fri AM 11:11:59 GMT+12:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> 
> On Fri, 2005-06-10 at 09:28, Errol Cavit wrote:
> > I probably should have mentioned it is unteachable. 
> > 
> > 
> > Are people so offended by a GK spell known by only one person that it
> > should be a SK that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared? Main
> > effect of this will be WS putting less priority on ranking Namer GK
> > counterspell (as I will want to counter this self-only spell
> > occasionally), and a write-up that is a bit longer - the mechanics are
> > non-standard, but closer to Namer  Counterspells than SK.
> > 
> > Errol
> 
> I think a new spell can't be GK - by definition, GK is the stuff that
> everyone in the college knows and must learn when acquiring the college.
> It could be a new spell which behaves like a GK spell for ranking,
> casting cost etc. - I.e. my only objection is labelling it as GK. 
> 
> And this also gives you the solution to your other problem - it is an
> odd-ball not-by-standard-rules spell. It conforms to standard rules,
> except where otherwise stated on the writeup. Ask the granting GM to
> amend the writeup to not say it is GK, and clarify exactly in which ways
> it behaves like a GK spell (including MA requirement.) Failing that, the
> first GM you present the writeup to can fix it in whatever way they see
> fit.
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:

>I disagree with Martin. The exception should be explicitly stated in both Namer college and the MA limit rule. I would prefer that section be amened to read "Except for Namer GK spells at Rank 0,..."
>  
>
I think you mean: ""Except for Namer Counterspells at Rank 0".  Should a 
Namer _somehow_ get a non-CS GK spell then it should count towards MA.

If I might disagree with your disagreement -- there are a multitude of 
odd abilities, items, etc out there in the game world that are in effect 
special case exceptions to general case rules.  We don't and shouldn't 
try to cover these exceptions in the general rules: "27.9 You can't cast 
while holding Cold Iron, except for that weird sword Bob has". :-)  I 
don't see the Namer spells should be treated in a different fashion.

Documenting it in two places simply gives you the opportunity to get it 
out of synch.  Just as when writing code, encapsulate and you'll only 
have to change it in one place.

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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Errol Cavit wrote:

> I probably should have mentioned it is unteachable.
>
I took that as a given...

> Are people so offended by a GK spell known by only one person that it 
> should be a SK...
>
Yes (my opinion)

Magic 7.1 states: "General Knowledge --  All Colleges of Magic have a 
body of Spells, Talents and Rituals which are classified as General 
Knowledge. These magics are taught to all Adepts of the College during 
their initial training."

If this spell is not available generally then it is not GK.  qed.

> that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared?
>
Can't be prepared?  Is that a special attribute of the spell?  Namers 
can Quick Cast (T-3) any Counterspell they know without preparing first, 
but the talent does not apply to anything else.

    - Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:

>Non-standard GK spells are out there... If it is a non-teachable GK then that is why you don't know it.
>
Non-teachable GK is an oxymoron.

GK is by necessity teachable.  Anything else is SK.  It may be SK that 
takes only 1 FT to cast, or indeed 5 FT.  But it is not GK, should not 
be listed as GK, and should not get GK MA discount... unless that bonus 
is explicitly listed in the spell writeup and carefully considered and 
balanced by the creating GM.

All IMO of course -- not yet pope. :-)

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 11:50
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> 
> 
> Errol Cavit wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> > that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared?
> >
> Can't be prepared?  Is that a special attribute of the spell?  


Yes. "Interesting" impact on backfire chance. Who turned the lights off? ;-)

Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; From: Martin Dickson [<A HREF="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 11:50</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Errol Cavit wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt; that takes 1 FT to cast and can't be prepared?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Can't be prepared?&nbsp; Is that a special attribute of the spell?&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Yes. &quot;Interesting&quot; impact on backfire chance. Who turned the lights off? ;-)</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Errol</FONT>
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hey there Martin, 

i have no problem with Namer non-CS GK spells counting towards MA limit

  I strongly recommend that we have to call that code, so the rule would require "Except as specified in the Namer College" 

That is nice and clear. code can be called from many procedures, so a unique call is not required.

And non-teachable GK are out there. Would you object if the Spell Description included "Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer College"?

that emulates your idea of calling code from only one place - the unique item/spell.

Ian


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Hi Ian,

Having a bad programming day -- it's spilling over into my other 
thinking.  :-)

dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:

>  I strongly recommend that we have to call that code, so the rule would require "Except as specified in the Namer College" 
>  
>
Yeah, I'd be OK with that.

>And non-teachable GK are out there. Would you object if the Spell Description included "Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer College"?
>  
>
No strong objection  -- like Michael Woodhams wrote: "my only objection 
is labelling it as GK".  But I'd rather that it did not get MA discount 
-- or that the GM at least acknowledged that MA discount was included.  
A redundancy of sorts, but at least that way we'd know they hadn't just 
overlooked it and included that bonus inadvertently.

So: "Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer 
College, including MA discount on EM".

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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The Guild Meeting is this Sunday, 12th June, 1pm at the Grey Lynn Hall.

I know of 3 or 4 adventures going out this session.  We will probably need another 3 or 4 GMs.

The Scribe Experience Guideline is on the agenda for GM voting.  I know of no other voting issues.


Have a good weekend, write the adventure you're going to run, and I'll see you all on Sunday.

Cheers, Stephen.


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 13:24
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> 
> 
> Hi Ian,
> 
> Having a bad programming day -- it's spilling over into my other 
> thinking.  :-)
> 
> dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> 
> >  I strongly recommend that we have to call that code, so 
> the rule would require "Except as specified in the Namer College" 
> >  
> >
> Yeah, I'd be OK with that.

Me too.

Wiki updated
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes

(um, to be fussy, they are _Rulebook_ changes, not neccesarily Rule changes)


> 
> >And non-teachable GK are out there. Would you object if the 
> Spell Description included "Acts in all respects as if a 
> non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer College"?
> >  
> >
> No strong objection  -- like Michael Woodhams wrote: "my only 
> objection 
> is labelling it as GK".  But I'd rather that it did not get 
> MA discount 
> -- or that the GM at least acknowledged that MA discount was 
> included.  
> A redundancy of sorts, but at least that way we'd know they 
> hadn't just 
> overlooked it and included that bonus inadvertently.
> 
> So: "Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of 
> the Namer 
> College, including MA discount on EM".
> 

Ironically, the MA discount aspect of it was the one thing we hadn't thought
about!
Thanks for the input.

Cheers
Errol
 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Martin Dickson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com=
</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 13:24</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hi Ian,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Having a bad programming day -- it's spilling =
over into my other </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; thinking.&nbsp; :-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I strongly recommend that we have to =
call that code, so </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the rule would require &quot;Except as =
specified in the Namer College&quot; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Yeah, I'd be OK with that.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Me too.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Wiki updated</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Chan=
ges" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending=
_Rule_Changes</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>(um, to be fussy, they are _Rulebook_ changes, not =
neccesarily Rule changes)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;And non-teachable GK are out there. Would =
you object if the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Spell Description included &quot;Acts in all =
respects as if a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer =
College&quot;?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; No strong objection&nbsp; -- like Michael =
Woodhams wrote: &quot;my only </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; objection </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; is labelling it as GK&quot;.&nbsp; But I'd =
rather that it did not get </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; MA discount </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- or that the GM at least acknowledged that MA =
discount was </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; included.&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; A redundancy of sorts, but at least that way =
we'd know they </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; hadn't just </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; overlooked it and included that bonus =
inadvertently.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; So: &quot;Acts in all respects as if a =
non-teachable, GK spell of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the Namer </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; College, including MA discount on =
EM&quot;.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ironically, the MA discount aspect of it was the one =
thing we hadn't thought about!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for the input.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>

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Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

GoK Walks into the Pub

One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness of
Guwilliam - Must be willing to never return.

Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda pissed!  We spent a lot of
time and effort getting the necromancers out of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness of Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Have to Admit to not really knowing I ran off after one Day.

I... er... Had something to attend to.

  

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:06 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda
pissed!  We spent a lot of
time and effort getting the necromancers out of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness of
Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Though I can say That the Necromancers, Harpies, Relm of the dead, and
un-banishable air-elementals are back.

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:13 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Have to Admit to not really knowing I ran off after one Day.

I... er... Had something to attend to.

  

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:06 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda
pissed!  We spent a lot of
time and effort getting the necromancers out of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness of
Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

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_sweet_


> 
> From: Errol Cavit <tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz>
> Date: 2005/06/10 Fri PM 01:49:59 GMT+12:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> > Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 13:24
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Ian,
> > 
> > Having a bad programming day -- it's spilling over into my other 
> > thinking.  :-)
> > 
> > dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> > 
> > >  I strongly recommend that we have to call that code, so 
> > the rule would require "Except as specified in the Namer College" 
> > >  
> > >
> > Yeah, I'd be OK with that.
> 
> Me too.
> 
> Wiki updated
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes
> 
> (um, to be fussy, they are _Rulebook_ changes, not neccesarily Rule changes)
> 
> 
> > 
> > >And non-teachable GK are out there. Would you object if the 
> > Spell Description included "Acts in all respects as if a 
> > non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer College"?
> > >  
> > >
> > No strong objection  -- like Michael Woodhams wrote: "my only 
> > objection 
> > is labelling it as GK".  But I'd rather that it did not get 
> > MA discount 
> > -- or that the GM at least acknowledged that MA discount was 
> > included.  
> > A redundancy of sorts, but at least that way we'd know they 
> > hadn't just 
> > overlooked it and included that bonus inadvertently.
> > 
> > So: "Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of 
> > the Namer 
> > College, including MA discount on EM".
> > 
> 
> Ironically, the MA discount aspect of it was the one thing we hadn't thought
> about!
> Thanks for the input.
> 
> Cheers
> Errol
>  
> 
> 

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<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; From: Martin Dickson [<A HREF="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 13:24</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Hi Ian,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Having a bad programming day -- it's spilling over into my other </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; thinking.&nbsp; :-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; I strongly recommend that we have to call that code, so </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; the rule would require &quot;Except as specified in the Namer College&quot; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Yeah, I'd be OK with that.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Me too.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Wiki updated</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes" TARGET="_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>(um, to be fussy, they are _Rulebook_ changes, not neccesarily Rule changes)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;And non-teachable GK are out there. Would you object if the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Spell Description included &quot;Acts in all respects as if a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; non-teachable, GK spell of the Namer College&quot;?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; No strong objection&nbsp; -- like Michael Woodhams wrote: &quot;my only </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; objection </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; is labelling it as GK&quot;.&nbsp; But I'd rather that it did not get </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; MA discount </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; -- or that the GM at least acknowledged that MA discount was </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; included.&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; A redundancy of sorts, but at least that way we'd know they </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; hadn't just </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; overlooked it and included that bonus inadvertently.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; So: &quot;Acts in all respects as if a non-teachable, GK spell of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; the Namer </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; College, including MA discount on EM&quot;.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Ironically, the MA discount aspect of it was the one thing we hadn't thought about!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks for the input.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Errol</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>

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------=____1118373509909_XSm5Xf7?3q--


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is the list of names in
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names officially
available at the guild ? 
How much do they cost to learn given they take 1/2 a days training each
?

Thanks Noel


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

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From the Player's Guide:

4.1 MAGIC TRAINING
..
Non-college specific Price 
Taught by the Namer College
Names (see list on page 16) 30sp


You can learn 'By means of a Detect Aura.', so I assume this is a charge for
getting a sample out of the cupboard for most things for most people - what
is known as a 'nice little earner' Well, something has to cover that
subsidised Remove Curse fee. But if some wet-behind-the-ears namer has to
actually teach you, it's only a bit cheaper than a General (300sp for 7
days)

Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel Livingston (DSL AK) [mailto:NoelL@datacom.co.nz]
> Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 15:34
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] 
> 
> 
> is the list of names in
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names officially
> available at the guild ? 
> How much do they cost to learn given they take 1/2 a days 
> training each
> ?
> 
> Thanks Noel
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>From the Player's Guide:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>4.1 MAGIC TRAINING</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>..</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Non-college specific Price </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Taught by the Namer College</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Names (see list on page 16) 30sp</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You can learn 'By means of a Detect Aura.', so I =
assume this is a charge for getting a sample out of the cupboard for =
most things for most people - what is known as a 'nice little earner' =
Well, something has to cover that subsidised Remove Curse fee. But if =
some wet-behind-the-ears namer has to actually teach you, it's only a =
bit cheaper than a General (300sp for 7 days)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Noel Livingston (DSL AK) [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:NoelL@datacom.co.nz">mailto:NoelL@datacom.co.nz</A>]</FON=
T>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 15:34</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: [dq] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; is the list of names in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names</=
A> officially</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; available at the guild ? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; How much do they cost to learn given they take =
1/2 a days </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; training each</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thanks Noel</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
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No takers Aye - I was told E&E's where the most HEROIC of the collages, and
the most likely to pass themselves off as Godbothering.
-GoK-



Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:27 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Though I can say That the Necromancers, Harpies, Relm of the dead, and
un-banishable air-elementals are back.

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:13 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Have to Admit to not really knowing I ran off after one Day.

I... er... Had something to attend to.

  

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:06 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda
pissed!  We spent a lot of
time and effort getting the necromancers out of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness of
Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

What part of E&E did you want in particular?  There are many
godbothering peoples with parts of the college.  And several E&E's
without the bits you probably want.

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 3:55 p.m.
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]


No takers Aye - I was told E&E's where the most HEROIC of the collages,
and the most likely to pass themselves off as Godbothering.
-GoK-



Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:27 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Though I can say That the Necromancers, Harpies, Relm of the dead, and
un-banishable air-elementals are back.

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:13 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Have to Admit to not really knowing I ran off after one Day.

I... er... Had something to attend to.

  

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:06 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda
pissed!  We spent a lot of time and effort getting the necromancers out
of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness 
> of
Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-pub-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
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Hi Noel,

[aside] Could you please use a subject in your posts?

Noel Livingston (DSL AK) wrote:

>is the list of names in
>http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names officially
>available at the guild ? 
>  
>
There used to be a list for bunny namers. I cannot find it now.  There 
should be a base list for new players.  The rest of that list should be 
available for a fee.

>How much do they cost to learn given they take 1/2 a days training each
>  
>
They take 1/2 a day of study to get to Rank 0.  They do not require 1/2 
a day of tuition.  This explains the nominal 30sp cost Errol posted.

Look at the Namer cast mods.  The first time you meet a Flumox you're at 
-15%.  Once you've DAed it and got its GTN (unranked) your at -10%. 
After a day of study -- or we may assume quiet contemplation of the Aura 
you saw -- you're at +0%  No-one has to teach you the name if you gain 
it via DA but you do have to study it.  Conversely, if there is no 
sample available to DA then it requires a teacher.

Hmmm... makes you wonder what the Guild has as samples... fortunately it 
only has to be a bit of skin on a sample board and not a live specimen.  
"Hey Fred, there's a bunny here who wants to learn Balrog... get the 
large study room ready, and get the really big sleeping potion".

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

> and get the really big sleeping potion".

does the bunny get nightmares and is too scared to sleep?

I guess a piece of balrog skin could do that...

Ian :-D


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Looking for your news, your articles, tips, What's Hot, What's Not .. 
quotes, gossip, rumours .. innuendos .. etc etc etc ..

Please get these into the editors by lunchtime Saturday ..

And thanks to all those who have sent stuff already.

The Editors
SGT


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com]
> Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 16:21
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Learning Names
> 
> 
> Hi Noel,
> 
> [aside] Could you please use a subject in your posts?
> 
> Noel Livingston (DSL AK) wrote:
> 
> >is the list of names in
> >http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names officially
> >available at the guild ? 
> >  
> >
> There used to be a list for bunny namers. I cannot find it 
> now.  There 
> should be a base list for new players.  

There is one in the Player's Guide. What's on the Wiki is a slightly updated
version of this I think?

The rest of that list 
> should be 
> available for a fee.
> 

I've changed the Magic training section of the Wiki to link to the Names
list there from both the 'Non-college specific' bit at the start (at a 30sp
cost), and from the Namer College (with a note that learning them is part of
the training for the College)

How about any Names on the Wiki list that aren't taught to starting Namers
be indicated as such?


> >How much do they cost to learn given they take 1/2 a days 
> training each
> >  
> >
> They take 1/2 a day of study to get to Rank 0.  They do not 
> require 1/2 
> a day of tuition.  This explains the nominal 30sp cost Errol posted.

My first reaction was that it was nominal too, but it actually is more per
day than 300sp for Generals that take 2-3 weeks to teach (re-learn, unless
I'm missing something these are (EM / 100 rounded up + 1) weeks), and half
the price of e.g. a GK Counter per day.

<snip>

Cheers
Errol

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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Learning Names</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Martin Dickson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com=
</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 16:21</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Learning Names</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hi Noel,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; [aside] Could you please use a subject in your =
posts?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Noel Livingston (DSL AK) wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;is the list of names in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;<A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names</=
A> officially</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;available at the guild ? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; There used to be a list for bunny namers. I =
cannot find it </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; now.&nbsp; There </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; should be a base list for new players.&nbsp; =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is one in the Player's Guide. What's on the =
Wiki is a slightly updated version of this I think?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The rest of that list </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; should be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; available for a fee.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I've changed the Magic training section of the Wiki =
to link to the Names list there from both the 'Non-college specific' =
bit at the start (at a 30sp cost), and from the Namer College (with a =
note that learning them is part of the training for the =
College)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>How about any Names on the Wiki list that aren't =
taught to starting Namers be indicated as such?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;How much do they cost to learn given they =
take 1/2 a days </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; training each</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; They take 1/2 a day of study to get to Rank =
0.&nbsp; They do not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; require 1/2 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; a day of tuition.&nbsp; This explains the =
nominal 30sp cost Errol posted.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>My first reaction was that it was nominal too, but it =
actually is more per day than 300sp for Generals that take 2-3 weeks to =
teach (re-learn, unless I'm missing something these are (EM / 100 =
rounded up + 1) weeks), and half the price of e.g. a GK Counter per =
day.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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Errol Cavit wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid200506100511.j5A5BEqk021780@smtp.sig.net.nz"
 type="cite">
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
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 content="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
  <title>RE: [dq] Learning Names</title>
  <p><font size="2">There is one in the Player's Guide. What's on the
Wiki is a slightly updated version of this I think?</font></p>
</blockquote>
The Wiki list is too much (IMO)... and with Names taking a day each to
learn (with up to 3 learnt at the same time) there is a reasonable
argument I feel that bunny Namers should start with a good solid list,
but excluding the more exotic kind.&nbsp; (e.g. Balrog).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid200506100511.j5A5BEqk021780@smtp.sig.net.nz"
 type="cite">
  <p><font size="2">How about any Names on the Wiki list that aren't
taught to starting Namers be indicated as such?</font></p>
</blockquote>
Sure -- or break the list into common and exotic.&nbsp; I've added a few
questions to the <a
 href="http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Names">Names
Talk page</a> if anyone wants to discuss some specifics of the list..<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research &amp; Architecture        email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.dickson@peace.com">martin.dickson@peace.com</a>
Peace Software                           <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.peace.com">http://www.peace.com</a></pre>
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Errol Cavit wrote:

> Another strange thing: Shadowform (SF) wording
>
> ...I've discovered that some people think this means that SF (a 150EM 
> GK spell with multi-hour duration, I remind you) stacks with the other 
> standard defence spells.
>
> Can we officially put the nix on this concept? Please?
>
Mmm... all those in favour of Shadowform stacking?  :-)  <occasional 
clue-stick thump>.

Does that mean that Errol's clarification request is uncontroversial?

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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Quickness!  - I'll catch up with you at the guild meeting.

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Sally Musgrave
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 4:00 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What part of E&E did you want in particular?  There are many
godbothering peoples with parts of the college.  And several E&E's
without the bits you probably want.

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 3:55 p.m.
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]


No takers Aye - I was told E&E's where the most HEROIC of the collages,
and the most likely to pass themselves off as Godbothering.
-GoK-



Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:27 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Though I can say That the Necromancers, Harpies, Relm of the dead, and
un-banishable air-elementals are back.

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:13 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

Have to Admit to not really knowing I ran off after one Day.

I... er... Had something to attend to.

  

Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:06 PM
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] [dq-pub]

What's going on down there?

If you're damaging one of my favourite high mana zones, I'll be kinda
pissed!  We spent a lot of time and effort getting the necromancers out
of there.

- Braegon.

Johanna and Hamish said:
>
>
> GoK Walks into the Pub
>
> One God-bothering level E&E with Rk10+ Healer needed in the Fastness 
> of
Guwilliam - Must be
> willing to never return.
>
> Any Takers??


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Yes Yes it should stack with it's self.

Makes good sence - Also I'm not biased.



Hamish Brown
Director

Zenergy
Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
119 Mt Eden Rd,
Auckland
www.zenergyglobal.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 5:27 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification #2 - Shadowform

Errol Cavit wrote:

> Another strange thing: Shadowform (SF) wording
>
> ...I've discovered that some people think this means that SF (a 150EM 
> GK spell with multi-hour duration, I remind you) stacks with the other 
> standard defence spells.
>
> Can we officially put the nix on this concept? Please?
>
Mmm... all those in favour of Shadowform stacking?  :-)  <occasional 
clue-stick thump>.

Does that mean that Errol's clarification request is uncontroversial?

-- 
Martin Dickson                           ph:  +64 9 3730400 x5115
User Experience Engineer                 fax: +64 9 3730401
Strategy, Research & Architecture        email: martin.dickson@peace.com
Peace Software                           http://www.peace.com


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Not wanting to cause too many rule "clarifications", but if we are
talking about SF stacking, can we point out that it doesn't stack with
darkness/vision penalties, and doesn't work with invis, being a
visual-type bonus.

This is why it's a 150EM general, not a 200EM special like real defence
spells.

Or is this also really obvious to those clue-stick wielders?

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 5:27 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification #2 - Shadowform

Errol Cavit wrote:

> Another strange thing: Shadowform (SF) wording
>
> ...I've discovered that some people think this means that SF (a 150EM
> GK spell with multi-hour duration, I remind you) stacks with the other

> standard defence spells.
>
> Can we officially put the nix on this concept? Please?
>
Mmm... all those in favour of Shadowform stacking?  :-)  <occasional 
clue-stick thump>.

Does that mean that Errol's clarification request is uncontroversial?

-- 
Martin Dickson


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The list on the Wiki is a combination of names taught to new namers (a list from Rosemary) and
names available from the guild (from Rosemary and other documents I scrounged).
I think I still have the document from Rosemary at home that differentiated between "Bunny Names",
those commonly taught, and those that are only taught on a need to know basis.

I resolved duplicates between the various lists and sorted them by group for easier reference.
I didn't get all of the duplicates, nor group all the names correctly.
Please feel free to continue to de-dupe and group correctly - I take no offence at the correction
of my errors, mis-assumptions, or plain missed bits.

My next planned step was to "flag" each of the names by whether they are taught with the college,
available to anyone, or available on adventure with GM approval only.  But I got distracted by
other projects.  I still think this should be done.
If I find the original document I'll re-post it so anyone who has time and inclination can apply it.

I also had a vague plan to include ITNs available from the guild either as a sub-section or as a
seperate page.

And I hoped that this would be a living document, added to as characters brought back new names
and taught them to the guild.
Potentially another category could be for names bought back but not taught to the guild (for
whatever reason) with the name of the character that has them.

The "Guild Namers" who ratify what is taught to whom could be senior Namers and interested GMs who
are willing to spend the time monitoring the Names lists on the wiki.


[End of confession of benevolent dictatorial scheming]

Errol, if you agree, perhaps you could ammend the bit you added to Magic Training to say that not
all on the list are taught to new namers (or words to that effect).

Cheers, Stephen.

Errol Cavit said:
>
>> >is the list of names in
>> >http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Names officially available at the guild ?
>> >
>> >
>> There used to be a list for bunny namers. I cannot find it
>> now.  There
>> should be a base list for new players.
>
> There is one in the Player's Guide. What's on the Wiki is a slightly updated version of this I
> think?
>
> The rest of that list
>> should be
>> available for a fee.
>>
>
> I've changed the Magic training section of the Wiki to link to the Names list there from both
> the 'Non-college specific' bit at the start (at a 30sp cost), and from the Namer College (with a
> note that learning them is part of the training for the College)
>
> How about any Names on the Wiki list that aren't taught to starting Namers be indicated as such?
>


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> >If an Assassin has a 4% bonus (Rk 2 from suprise or Rk 4 from behind), is
> >their chance of causing a Spec Grev:
> >A) 9% of their modified Strike Chance
> >or
> >B) (5% of their modified SC) + 4%
> >
> >
> Agree with William: B.  Much easier to calculate.
>
> The confusion is caused by the original writers' sloppy way of using %
> to usually mean actual digits or pips rolled against with D100, and then
> occasionally to actually mean percent.

I have always played A but only because I never thought of B :-) Given an
assasin from behind should always have greater than 100% SC B looks like a
good option but as a player of an Assasin I admit total bias on this :-)

Mandos
/s


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Most of these things are already in the spell description.

"Shadow Form / Coruscade (G-4)
Range: 15 feet + 1 / Rank
Duration: 30 minutes + 30 / Rank
Experience Multiple: 150
Base Chance: 10%
Resist: None
Storage: Investment, Ward, Potion
Target: Entity
Effects: The target of this spell is enveloped in a confusing
pattern of shadows (for Dark and Shadow) or
coruscating pattern of motes of light (Solar and Star).
Any attempt to physically hit the target with Melee
or Ranged attacks will have 2 (+ 2 / Rank) subtracted
from the Strike Chance. In Close combat 1 (+ 1 /
Rank) is subtracted. Any attack made without using
the sense of sight (either normal, or for that particular
attack) will not be affected by this spell (e.g. a blind
entity, a trample attack). In almost all circumstances
it is quite apparent when an entity is under the effect
of this spell. No form of magical vision will aid in
avoiding the Strike Chance reduction produced as a
result of this spell."

However, the fact that it reduces the attacker's Strike Chance, rather than
increasing the target's Defence, means that the raw rules on stacking don't
apply.

I also guess that it would not stack with spells that _increase_ the
attacker's Strike Chance (eg Enchant Weapon). Greatest rank wins?
I like spells that have weirdnesses, but perhaps that is one too many?

I could also argue that it won't stack on a magical weapon with a magical
bonus to Strike Chance.

So in theory, I would be happy for this spell to apply to strike chances,
but to have no effect if:
  Attacker is blind or uses other senses to detect the target (eg smell)
  Attacker is under the effect of a higher ranked spell that affects Strike
Chance
  Attacker is wielding a magical weapon with an intrinsic magical bonus to
the Strike Chance (regardless of magnitude).

  However, in close I would also suggest it applies to all Strike Chances on
every target within that hex (as it has a general blurring effect) (with the
same exceptions).

**These would require a change in the spell description.**


In practice I would prefer it to affect defence and be subject to the normal
stacking rules!

Ian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Andrew Withy (DSL AK)
> Sent: 10 June 2005 17:43
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification #2 - Shadowform
> 
> Not wanting to cause too many rule "clarifications", but if we are
> talking about SF stacking, can we point out that it doesn't stack with
> darkness/vision penalties, and doesn't work with invis, being a
> visual-type bonus.
> 
> This is why it's a 150EM general, not a 200EM special like real defence
> spells.
> 
> Or is this also really obvious to those clue-stick wielders?
> 
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Martin Dickson
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 5:27 PM
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quick clarification #2 - Shadowform
> 
> Errol Cavit wrote:
> 
> > Another strange thing: Shadowform (SF) wording
> >
> > ...I've discovered that some people think this means that SF (a 150EM
> > GK spell with multi-hour duration, I remind you) stacks with the other
> 
> > standard defence spells.
> >
> > Can we officially put the nix on this concept? Please?
> >
> Mmm... all those in favour of Shadowform stacking?  :-)  <occasional
> clue-stick thump>.
> 
> Does that mean that Errol's clarification request is uncontroversial?
> 
> --
> Martin Dickson
> 
> 
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> > And this also gives you the solution to your other problem - it is an
> > odd-ball not-by-standard-rules spell. It conforms to standard rules,
> > except where otherwise stated on the writeup. Ask the granting GM to
> > amend the writeup to not say it is GK, and clarify exactly in which ways
> > it behaves like a GK spell (including MA requirement.) Failing that, the
> > first GM you present the writeup to can fix it in whatever way they see
> > fit.
>
> this feels a little pedantic, and is really between Errol and his
> GM(s). Non-standard GK spells are out there, because it is easier
> to use a label than to define the same terms. If it is a
> non-teachable GK then that is why you don't know it. As a GM i
> have no problem with this. He knows it, you don't. seems simple
> enough for me.

I concur with Micheal on this one. New spells should be SK by definition.
And just because other idio....people have given Generals out does not mean
it is ok to add another...it means the old ones need to be fixed.

Mandos
/s


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