It used to be a spell with a range, I think. If we need a range (and
Helen's point is cogent as always), then the spell range would be a
place to start.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Mandos Mitchinson
Sent: Sunday, 24 July 2005 1:50 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Binders


I was just confirming their evil when I noted that there is no range on
the talent of Activate Golem.

Should there be one?

Mandos
/s


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> We've been fine with the talent for years and this is the first time
anyone has realized there is no x ft range.

I know, it is sad really. All the work that goes into the rules and
no-one reads them :-)

> Why do we need a fixed range? 

I am not sure we do, I just thought it was odd there wasn't one. 

> Are you thinking we want to activate our golems from half way across
the continent? 

You mean commit evil while you are not physically there to take the
blame.....of course you do.

> What would be the point? 

See Above. 

> How do I tell it what I want it to do?
 
Bound speech.

</Silly answers>

I kind of like the "Voice" range, but I do think it should be added to
the talent. 

Mandos
/s


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It was previously part of the Animation spell.
The current Animation has a 10 +5/r range, the same as Instant Golem.

The Activate talent is charging an instance of a golem ritual and uses the rank of the relevant
ritual for all specific effects.
If we were to add a specific range then I think it should be based on the ritual rank.  Say 5 feet
per rank (touch at rank 0).

Or maybe just range sight, can't see it, can't activate it.
Similar to the control of them, can't talk to it, can't control it.


That's IF it is considered an issue.  It has not been an issue in game as yet.

Cheers, Stephen.

Declaration - I am an Evil Binder!  oops I mean I play an Evil Binder!
It's quite convenient sometimes - I didn't want to kill him officer.  I'm a Binder, I had to,
people expect it of me.
Vote for Thaeuss as the Most Evil Binder!

Of course the whole Evil Binder thing is just a smear campign by the Necromancers to distract
do-gooders from interfering in their evil necromantic schemes.
The same as we're doing to do to the Bards.  It's just that the Necromancers have better campaign
funding.

DSL AK said:
> It used to be a spell with a range, I think. If we need a range (and Helen's point is cogent as
> always), then the spell range would be a place to start.
>
> Andrew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson
> Sent: Sunday, 24 July 2005 1:50 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Binders
>
>
> I was just confirming their evil when I noted that there is no range on the talent of Activate
> Golem.
>
> Should there be one?
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>I know, it is sad really. All the work that goes into the rules and
>no-one reads them :-)

Most only bother with general rules and their own collage and skills, since
binders are rare few will have read those rules.

>> Why do we need a fixed range? 
>I am not sure we do, I just thought it was odd there wasn't one.

It's not the only talent without a range DA for example, which ends up
limited by the range modifier. And Wizards sight, which is limited to what
the wizard can see. Sorry, I missed the invisible assassin creeping up, he
was behind that wall.

>You mean commit evil while you are not physically there to take the
blame.....of course you do.

But Binders can do that without activating Golems from afar at rank 6 a
Stone Golem will run for 30 hrs, an Iron 36, how far can you get in that
time even without instill flight? "Golem wait until moon rise tomorrow and
then...."

>>How do I tell it what I want it to do?
>Bound speech.

Does bound speech store active concentration? That's another of the
instruction requirements.
 
>I kind of like the "Voice" range, but I do think it should be added to
>the talent. 

Golems themselves are poorly written there is half a page at the beginning
of Binder, and the stats are on a table on the last page. Like Elementals
there is room for a lot of GM and Player interpretation in the way they are
run. Which may or may not be a good thing.

I've been thinking it would be better to put all the Golem info in one place
of a while now, perhaps I will try to do a page for the wiki.
 
And then once it's all together in one place looking at organizing a review,
rewrite or just a clarification of Golems. Eg. The Names and Auras Section
uses Stone Golems as an example of a Non-Sentient Animate, but a Stone golem
has an MA of 0. And MA 0 is sentient, go figure.

It's just finding the time I've been either running an adventure or writing
the next one for the last two years (as well as playing). I'm currently
writing one for this spring, in between rounds of toddler taming, the
terrible twos are, terrible.

Helen


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in a perverse way i like a range of "audible voice". It has the maximum potential for abuse :-D

sophistication leads to using Whispering winds, Bound speech, ventriloquism. I think it would be wrong for a binder to activate a golem from several hundred miles away - heck what more encouragement do i need? Lets allow it! It would be terrific.

BTW - i play a mind mage, and we like other colleges to be thought of as scary - it distracts people from fearing us.

Ian

> 
> From: Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net>
> Date: 2005/07/25 Mon AM 09:42:47 GMT+12:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Binders
> 
> It was previously part of the Animation spell.
> The current Animation has a 10 +5/r range, the same as Instant Golem.
> 
> The Activate talent is charging an instance of a golem ritual and uses the rank of the relevant
> ritual for all specific effects.
> If we were to add a specific range then I think it should be based on the ritual rank.  Say 5 feet
> per rank (touch at rank 0).
> 
> Or maybe just range sight, can't see it, can't activate it.
> Similar to the control of them, can't talk to it, can't control it.
> 
> 
> That's IF it is considered an issue.  It has not been an issue in game as yet.
> 
> Cheers, Stephen.
> 
> Declaration - I am an Evil Binder!  oops I mean I play an Evil Binder!
> It's quite convenient sometimes - I didn't want to kill him officer.  I'm a Binder, I had to,
> people expect it of me.
> Vote for Thaeuss as the Most Evil Binder!
> 
> Of course the whole Evil Binder thing is just a smear campign by the Necromancers to distract
> do-gooders from interfering in their evil necromantic schemes.
> The same as we're doing to do to the Bards.  It's just that the Necromancers have better campaign
> funding.
> 
> DSL AK said:
> > It used to be a spell with a range, I think. If we need a range (and Helen's point is cogent as
> > always), then the spell range would be a place to start.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson
> > Sent: Sunday, 24 July 2005 1:50 p.m.
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: [dq] Binders
> >
> >
> > I was just confirming their evil when I noted that there is no range on the talent of Activate
> > Golem.
> >
> > Should there be one?
> >
> > Mandos
> > /s
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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> Or maybe just range sight, can't see it, can't activate it. 
> Similar to the control of them, can't talk to it, can't control it.
> 
> 
> That's IF it is considered an issue.  It has not been an 
> issue in game as yet.

Oh I definatly don't think it is an issue. Just an oddity. But I would
probably err on the side of adding a range, even one like 'Vocal' or
sight.

I am working through all of the spells one by one for another
charactersheet upgrade and so will probably be annoying the list with
small points in the coming weeks :-)

Like the fact that there are four colleges with Walking Unseen and three
different base chances depending on the college. Do realise what a pain
in the bum that is when you are looking at spell lookup tables. 

Mandos
/s


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mandos Mitchinson [mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz]
> Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 11:32
<snip>
> 
> I am working through all of the spells one by one for another
> charactersheet upgrade and so will probably be annoying the list with
> small points in the coming weeks :-)
> 
> Like the fact that there are four colleges with Walking 
> Unseen and three
> different base chances depending on the college. Do realise 
> what a pain
> in the bum that is when you are looking at spell lookup tables. 
> 

Well if you try using a non-unique key.... :-)
Lookup on a code based on CollegeCode & MagicCode (e.g. CE_G08 for
Celestial,  EE_G04 for E&E)? All hidden to the user of course - they aren't
designed to be user-editable, are they?

Hmmm. So, Celestial is four colleges then?

Cheers
Errol

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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: [dq] Charactersheets</TITLE>
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<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Mandos Mitchinson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz">mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz</A>]</F=
ONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 11:32</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I am working through all of the spells one by =
one for another</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; charactersheet upgrade and so will probably be =
annoying the list with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; small points in the coming weeks :-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Like the fact that there are four colleges with =
Walking </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Unseen and three</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; different base chances depending on the =
college. Do realise </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; what a pain</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; in the bum that is when you are looking at =
spell lookup tables. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Well if you try using a non-unique key.... :-)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lookup on a code based on CollegeCode &amp; =
MagicCode (e.g. CE_G08 for Celestial,&nbsp; EE_G04 for E&amp;E)? All =
hidden to the user of course - they aren't designed to be =
user-editable, are they?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hmmm. So, Celestial is four colleges then?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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Nah, you just allow the "Variant" spells to have a code that includes
their branch.
A similar thing can be worked out for the two(?) "branches" of Earth.

The biggest issue with these tables (esp Magic) tends to be the
personal (and OOC) Talents, spells and rituals that many characaters
accumulate.

TTFN, Struan.

On 7/25/05, Errol Cavit <tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:
>  
>  
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Mandos Mitchinson [mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz] 
> > Sent: Monday, 25 July 2005 11:32 
> <snip> 
> > 
> > I am working through all of the spells one by one for another 
> > charactersheet upgrade and so will probably be annoying the list with 
> > small points in the coming weeks :-) 
> > 
> > Like the fact that there are four colleges with Walking 
> > Unseen and three 
> > different base chances depending on the college. Do realise 
> > what a pain 
> > in the bum that is when you are looking at spell lookup tables. 
> > 
> 
> Well if you try using a non-unique key.... :-) 
> Lookup on a code based on CollegeCode & MagicCode (e.g. CE_G08 for
> Celestial,  EE_G04 for E&E)? All hidden to the user of course - they aren't
> designed to be user-editable, are they? 
> 
> Hmmm. So, Celestial is four colleges then? 
> 
> Cheers 
> Errol


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