SubjectRe: [dq] Quickness: The Altering
FromPhil Judd
DateSun, 28 Aug 2005 08:01:45 +1200
Thought I would stick my oar in on the quickness debate and questions.

Note I have a high level E & E which I play often.

I don't like the term "nerf" - smacks of MMOG's and flame wars on boards
between pre-pubescent teens over their favorite broken part of their
game.

Right down the bottom I have a suggestion (around the "--*********"'s

A couple of points about E&E's
1. They are not combat mages, they are support mages.
2. Quickness and slowness tend to be the main things you do in combat at
high level - sleep stops being useful except on the minions and the only
other thing I tend to end up casting is Enhance enchant. They are
defining spells of the college.
3. There are only 12 specials (spells & rituals) in the college and only
mind mages have less (10), Namers now have 7 spells & 5 (I think) Rit's
so I believe care needs to be taken if we are going to tweak them
around. Both still need to be useful and not just spells you might cast
in combat cause you are looking for something to do.
4. The fact that both sides need it in a fight partially cancels out
it's usefulness - except to pulse related effects (quickness HALVES the
speed of trollskins? etc)

Stepping back from that Quickness does make a mess of combats, I have
found it necessary to keep a running track of all the players and their
actions (as a GM's aid) to keep things moving along. Also the whole
interaction with non-quickened characters just plain doesn't work.

"I favor loosing the double action as long as we can keep the spell (and
here's the rub) as useful as it is currently to both Mages and
Fighters."

I also lean towards minimalist changes so we don't have to introduce too
many new rules concepts that could create unwanted interactions.
I am not sure if the suggestions below actually do this but here is an
attempt.

--********************************************************
We could try:
Quickness (S-12)
Range: 15 feet + 15 / Rank
Duration: 10 seconds ◊ [D - 5] ◊ [Rank]
Experience Multiple: 300
Base Chance: 20%
Resist: Active, Passive
Storage: Potion, Investment, Ward
Target: Entity
Effects: The spell affects 1 (+ 1 / 3, or fraction, Ranks) targets. The
targetsí Initiative Value (both engaged and unengaged) is increased by 5
(+ 1 / Rank). In addition at Rank 10 the target may do an additional
action identical to that described in 3.8 Figures with Extraordinary
Agility. Targets that already have Extraordinary Agility (i.e 26+) may
end up with two extra actions. Finally it adds 1 (+1 / 10 full Ranks)
onto each target's TMR.


&
Slowness (S-11)
Range: 15 feet + 15 / Rank
Duration: 10 seconds ◊ [D - 5] ◊ [Rank]
Experience Multiple: 300
Base Chance: 20%
Resist: Active, Passive
Storage: Potion, Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
Target: Entity
Effects: The spell affects 1 (+ 1 / 2, or fraction,
Rank) targets. All entities subject to this spell have
their running, crawling, flying, or swimming speed
halved (both movement rate and TMR) and have their Initiative Value
(both engaged and unengaged) is reduced by 5 (+ 1 / Rank) (minimum 1).

--********************************************************

So quickness gives a Rank Dependent mod to IV and TMR and an extra
non-magical pass action or offensive / defensive withdraw etc.

Slowness halves TMR and has a rank dependent reduction in IV. (not sure
this is tough enough - I cast it to reduce the number of ATTACKS baddies
have - though most GM's play a target gets their NEXT action then looses
the one after that - my experience is that half my slowed people get
killed prior to them loosing a SECOND action)

Note that neither of these spells effect the number of spells / attacks
friends / foes can get.

Actually I think the spells don't end up changed that much and you don't
have to muck about with too many other rules. It is a boring numbers
change and lacks the whiz bang of other suggestions but at the end of it
gets rid of half pulses.

Other related bit's
I agree it would be really nice to overhaul the IV system and get mages
with some sort IV but this has proven difficult to do before and no easy
answer has presented itself other than a complete re-write of combat
(which went down like a tonne of bricks last time it was tried).

Anyway - thatís my two bits.

Phil Judd


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SubjectRe: [dq] Quickness: The Altering
FromJonathan Bean
DateSun, 28 Aug 2005 11:41:16 +1200
I agree with Phil, and I am pleased to see the points about the impact on
E&E mages not only the impact on the rest of the game.

Jonathan Bean
 
Business Development Manager
TME - Its all about time
Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand
Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz
Free 0800 55 33 66

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Phil Judd
> Sent: 28 August 2005 8:02 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness: The Altering
> 
> Thought I would stick my oar in on the quickness debate and questions.
> 
> Note I have a high level E & E which I play often.
> 
> I don't like the term "nerf" - smacks of MMOG's and flame wars on boards
> between pre-pubescent teens over their favorite broken part of their
> game.
> 
> Right down the bottom I have a suggestion (around the "--*********"'s
> 
> A couple of points about E&E's
> 1. They are not combat mages, they are support mages.
> 2. Quickness and slowness tend to be the main things you do in combat at
> high level - sleep stops being useful except on the minions and the only
> other thing I tend to end up casting is Enhance enchant. They are
> defining spells of the college.
> 3. There are only 12 specials (spells & rituals) in the college and only
> mind mages have less (10), Namers now have 7 spells & 5 (I think) Rit's
> so I believe care needs to be taken if we are going to tweak them
> around. Both still need to be useful and not just spells you might cast
> in combat cause you are looking for something to do.
> 4. The fact that both sides need it in a fight partially cancels out
> it's usefulness - except to pulse related effects (quickness HALVES the
> speed of trollskins? etc)
> 
> Stepping back from that Quickness does make a mess of combats, I have
> found it necessary to keep a running track of all the players and their
> actions (as a GM's aid) to keep things moving along. Also the whole
> interaction with non-quickened characters just plain doesn't work.
> 
> "I favor loosing the double action as long as we can keep the spell (and
> here's the rub) as useful as it is currently to both Mages and
> Fighters."
> 
> I also lean towards minimalist changes so we don't have to introduce too
> many new rules concepts that could create unwanted interactions.
> I am not sure if the suggestions below actually do this but here is an
> attempt.
> 
> --********************************************************
> We could try:
> Quickness (S-12)
> Range: 15 feet + 15 / Rank
> Duration: 10 seconds ◊ [D - 5] ◊ [Rank]
> Experience Multiple: 300
> Base Chance: 20%
> Resist: Active, Passive
> Storage: Potion, Investment, Ward
> Target: Entity
> Effects: The spell affects 1 (+ 1 / 3, or fraction, Ranks) targets. The
> targetsí Initiative Value (both engaged and unengaged) is increased by 5
> (+ 1 / Rank). In addition at Rank 10 the target may do an additional
> action identical to that described in 3.8 Figures with Extraordinary
> Agility. Targets that already have Extraordinary Agility (i.e 26+) may
> end up with two extra actions. Finally it adds 1 (+1 / 10 full Ranks)
> onto each target's TMR.
> 
> 
> &
> Slowness (S-11)
> Range: 15 feet + 15 / Rank
> Duration: 10 seconds ◊ [D - 5] ◊ [Rank]
> Experience Multiple: 300
> Base Chance: 20%
> Resist: Active, Passive
> Storage: Potion, Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
> Target: Entity
> Effects: The spell affects 1 (+ 1 / 2, or fraction,
> Rank) targets. All entities subject to this spell have
> their running, crawling, flying, or swimming speed
> halved (both movement rate and TMR) and have their Initiative Value
> (both engaged and unengaged) is reduced by 5 (+ 1 / Rank) (minimum 1).
> 
> --********************************************************
> 
> So quickness gives a Rank Dependent mod to IV and TMR and an extra
> non-magical pass action or offensive / defensive withdraw etc.
> 
> Slowness halves TMR and has a rank dependent reduction in IV. (not sure
> this is tough enough - I cast it to reduce the number of ATTACKS baddies
> have - though most GM's play a target gets their NEXT action then looses
> the one after that - my experience is that half my slowed people get
> killed prior to them loosing a SECOND action)
> 
> Note that neither of these spells effect the number of spells / attacks
> friends / foes can get.
> 
> Actually I think the spells don't end up changed that much and you don't
> have to muck about with too many other rules. It is a boring numbers
> change and lacks the whiz bang of other suggestions but at the end of it
> gets rid of half pulses.
> 
> Other related bit's
> I agree it would be really nice to overhaul the IV system and get mages
> with some sort IV but this has proven difficult to do before and no easy
> answer has presented itself other than a complete re-write of combat
> (which went down like a tonne of bricks last time it was tried).
> 
> Anyway - thatís my two bits.
> 
> Phil Judd
> 
> 
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Subject[dq] Help please re: Disjunction (S-4)
FromJonathan Bean
DateSun, 28 Aug 2005 14:43:08 +1200
Can I gain peoples assistance with the Namer College Special Knowledge spell
S-4 Disjunction, which is currently in play.


Disjunction (S-4)
Range: 10 feet + 10 / Rank
Duration: 1 minute + 1 / Rank
Experience Multiple: 300
Base Chance: 30%
Resist: Passive
Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
Target: Object, Area
Effects: This spell prevents stored magics within an object or area from
coming into effect. Magics that are affected by this spell include Wards,
Invested items, Potions, Magical Traps, and permanent magics that need to be
triggered. If a potion under the effects of a Disjunction is consumed, the
potion will take effect after the spell effect ceases, provided it is still
inside an entity. Other items will simply be unable to be triggered, and no
charges will be lost.


Q: What is the area that this spell talks of?


Jonathan Bean
 
Business Development Manager
TME - Its all about time
Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand
Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz
Free 0800 55 33 66


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SubjectRe: [dq] Help please re: Disjunction (S-4)
FromStephen Martin
DateSun, 28 Aug 2005 17:43:17 +1200 (NZST)
A circle centered on the adept with a radius equal to their range.

Same as Enhance Enchant, Agony, etc.


Jonathan Bean said:
> Can I gain peoples assistance with the Namer College Special Knowledge spell S-4 Disjunction,
> which is currently in play.
>
>
> Disjunction (S-4)
> Range: 10 feet + 10 / Rank
> Duration: 1 minute + 1 / Rank
> Experience Multiple: 300
> Base Chance: 30%
> Resist: Passive
> Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
> Target: Object, Area
> Effects: This spell prevents stored magics within an object or area from coming into effect.
> Magics that are affected by this spell include Wards, Invested items, Potions, Magical Traps,
> and permanent magics that need to be triggered. If a potion under the effects of a Disjunction
> is consumed, the potion will take effect after the spell effect ceases, provided it is still
> inside an entity. Other items will simply be unable to be triggered, and no charges will be
> lost.
>
>
> Q: What is the area that this spell talks of?
>
>
> Jonathan Bean
>
> Business Development Manager
> TME - Its all about time
> Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
> Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand
> Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz
> Free 0800 55 33 66
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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SubjectRe: [dq] Help please re: Disjunction (S-4)
FromJonathan Bean
DateSun, 28 Aug 2005 18:49:32 +1200
Ok so out to the range - which is large.

Jonathan Bean
 
Business Development Manager
TME - Its all about time
Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand
Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz
Free 0800 55 33 66

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: 28 August 2005 5:43 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Help please re: Disjunction (S-4)
> 
> A circle centered on the adept with a radius equal to their range.
> 
> Same as Enhance Enchant, Agony, etc.
> 
> 
> Jonathan Bean said:
> > Can I gain peoples assistance with the Namer College Special Knowledge
> spell S-4 Disjunction,
> > which is currently in play.
> >
> >
> > Disjunction (S-4)
> > Range: 10 feet + 10 / Rank
> > Duration: 1 minute + 1 / Rank
> > Experience Multiple: 300
> > Base Chance: 30%
> > Resist: Passive
> > Storage: Investment, Ward, Magical Trap
> > Target: Object, Area
> > Effects: This spell prevents stored magics within an object or area from
> coming into effect.
> > Magics that are affected by this spell include Wards, Invested items,
> Potions, Magical Traps,
> > and permanent magics that need to be triggered. If a potion under the
> effects of a Disjunction
> > is consumed, the potion will take effect after the spell effect ceases,
> provided it is still
> > inside an entity. Other items will simply be unable to be triggered, and
> no charges will be
> > lost.
> >
> >
> > Q: What is the area that this spell talks of?
> >
> >
> > Jonathan Bean
> >
> > Business Development Manager
> > TME - Its all about time
> > Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
> > Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand
> > Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz
> > Free 0800 55 33 66
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 
> 
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