Messages for 31 August 2005

Subject	Re: [dq] Training clarification
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:34:34 +1200
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADA2.3B641890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Woodhams [mailto:mdw@free.net.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2005 17:33 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification > > > On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 16:52, Errol Cavit wrote: > > > "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability > does NOT have > > to be continuous. However training for a given rank must be > completed > > within 6 months of starting training for that rank." > > > "contiguous" rather than "continuous" is more precise. > Perhaps, but I don't think "continuous" will cause any confusion in meaning, and simpler (or more familiar) words should be used for preference. However' how about: "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability may be interrupted by other activity (including being on adventure). However training for a given rank must be completed within 6 months of starting training for that rank." Cheers Errol ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADA2.3B641890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Training clarification</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: Michael Woodhams [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mailto:mdw@free.net.nz</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2005 17:33</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 16:52, Errol Cavit = wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > "Time spent training for a particular = rank of an ability </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> does NOT have</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > to be continuous. However training for a = given rank must be </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> completed</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > within 6 months of starting training for = that rank."</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> "contiguous" rather than = "continuous" is more precise.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Perhaps, but I don't think "continuous" = will cause any confusion in meaning, and simpler (or more familiar) = words should be used for preference.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>However' how about:</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>"Time spent training for a particular rank of an = ability may be interrupted by other activity (including being on = adventure). However training for a given rank must be completed within = 6 months of starting training for that rank."</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADA2.3B641890-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Training clarification
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:53:47 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C5AE1A.43A27470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What did the rule book say on it before it was removed, anything? Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckalnd, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Errol Cavit Sent: 31 August 2005 8:35 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Woodhams [mailto:mdw@free.net.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2005 17:33 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification > > > On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 16:52, Errol Cavit wrote: > > > "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability > does NOT have > > to be continuous. However training for a given rank must be > completed > > within 6 months of starting training for that rank." > > > "contiguous" rather than "continuous" is more precise. > Perhaps, but I don't think "continuous" will cause any confusion in meaning, and simpler (or more familiar) words should be used for preference. However' how about: "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability may be interrupted by other activity (including being on adventure). However training for a given rank must be completed within 6 months of starting training for that rank." Cheers Errol ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C5AE1A.43A27470 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <title>RE: [dq] Training clarification</title> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"country-region" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"City" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Street" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"address" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What did the rule book say on it = before it was removed, anything?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development = Manager</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about = time</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone = <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966 1656         PO Box = 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448 1051           = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 = 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz</span></font>= <font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Free = 0800 55 33 66</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm = 0cm 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 31 August 2005 8:35 = a.m.<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] = Training clarification</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> -----Original Message-----</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> From: Michael = Woodhams [<a href=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mailto:mdw@free.net.nz</a>]</span></font>= <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 = August 2005 17:33</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> To: <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: Re: [dq] = Training clarification</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> On Tue, 2005-08-30 = at 16:52, Errol Cavit wrote:</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > "Time = spent training for a particular rank of an ability </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> does NOT = have</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > to be = continuous. However training for a given rank must be </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> = completed</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > within 6 = months of starting training for that rank."</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > = </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> = "contiguous" rather than "continuous" is more precise.</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> = </span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Perhaps, but I don't think "continuous" will cause any confusion in = meaning, and simpler (or more familiar) words should be used for = preference.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>However' how about:</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>"Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability may be interrupted by = other activity (including being on adventure). However training for a given = rank must be completed within 6 months of starting training for that = rank."</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Errol</span></font> = <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01C5AE1A.43A27470-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Training clarification
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:00:48 +1200
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADB6.A92FC360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We went through this in 'Over ranking' 11-12th July. I'm writing down what we have been doing for the last several years, which doesn't match up exactly with what has ever been in the rules. Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Bean [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 10:54 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification What did the rule book say on it before it was removed, anything? Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckalnd, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Errol Cavit Sent: 31 August 2005 8:35 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Woodhams [ mailto:mdw@free.net.nz <mailto:mdw@free.net.nz> ] > Sent: Tuesday, 30 August 2005 17:33 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Training clarification > > > On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 16:52, Errol Cavit wrote: > > > "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability > does NOT have > > to be continuous. However training for a given rank must be > completed > > within 6 months of starting training for that rank." > > > "contiguous" rather than "continuous" is more precise. > Perhaps, but I don't think "continuous" will cause any confusion in meaning, and simpler (or more familiar) words should be used for preference. However' how about: "Time spent training for a particular rank of an ability may be interrupted by other activity (including being on adventure). However training for a given rank must be completed within 6 months of starting training for that rank." Cheers Errol ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADB6.A92FC360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Training clarification</TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"=20 name=3D"country-region"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"City"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"PlaceType"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"PlaceName"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/" name=3D"place"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"Street"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"address"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"PersonName"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTag= Type><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt = 90.0pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: = "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: = auto } SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>We=20 went through this in 'Over ranking' 11-12th July.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm=20 writing down what we have been doing for the last several years, which = doesn't=20 match up exactly with what has ever been in the = rules.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D512355822-30082005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jonathan Bean=20 [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 31 August 2005 = 10:54<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] = Training=20 clarification<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What did = the rule=20 book say on it before it was removed, = anything?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jonathan=20 Bean</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: = navy"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Business = Development=20 Manager</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">TME - Its = all about=20 time</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Phone=20 <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966=20 1656         PO Box=20 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place = w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName=20 w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType=20 w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></SPAN></FONT><FONT = color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Fax 448=20 1051           = <st1:place=20 w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region=20 w:st=3D"on">New = Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20 color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: = navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Mob 021 173=20 = 4060       www.tme.co.nz</SPAN></FONT= ><FONT=20 color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: = navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Free 0800 55=20 33 66</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: blue = 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV> <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" = align=3Dcenter><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = Tahoma">=20 dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Errol = Cavit<BR><B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 31 August 2005 8:35=20 a.m.<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> = <st1:PersonName=20 w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] Training=20 clarification</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT = face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">>=20 -----Original Message-----</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> From: Michael Woodhams [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:mdw@free.net.nz">mailto:mdw@free.net.nz</A>]</SPAN></FONT= >=20 <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Sent: = Tuesday, 30 August=20 2005 17:33</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">>=20 To: <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></SPAN></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> Subject: Re: = [dq] Training=20 clarification</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> On Tue, 2005-08-30 at 16:52, Errol = Cavit=20 wrote:</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">>=20 </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> = > "Time=20 spent training for a particular rank of an ability = </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT=20 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> does NOT = have</SPAN></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > to be = continuous.=20 However training for a given rank must be </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> completed</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> > within 6 months of starting = training for=20 that rank."</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>=20 > </SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">>=20 "contiguous" rather than "continuous" is more precise.</SPAN></FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">> = </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">Perhaps,=20 but I don't think "continuous" will cause any confusion in meaning, = and=20 simpler (or more familiar) words should be used for=20 preference.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">However'=20 how about:</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: = 10pt">"Time=20 spent training for a particular rank of an ability may be interrupted = by other=20 activity (including being on adventure). However training for a given = rank=20 must be completed within 6 months of starting training for that=20 rank."</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cheers</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Errol</SPAN></FONT>=20 <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADB6.A92FC360-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Languages.
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:32:10 +1200
Just thought I would rank languages for a change. If you have a language at an effective rank of 2 because you know other languages do you start to rank from 2 or do you relearn it from unranked? If you say learn the language to 1 do you still use it at the effective rank or the actual rank? I suspect you have you buy from unranked buy get the language at the effective rank, but it does seem a little silly to spend a number of weeks learning something to end up at the same level of skill. Just be interested in peoples thoughts on this. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] General Initiative
From
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:49:54 +1200
just add another collumn to the spell list: initiative. all pre-planned and pre-calculated. just like the weapon-meisters > a mage (excluding boring single spell mages) may have 5-10 combat > options meaning a rediculous number of different initiatives, making the > calculation of when the mage would cast very time consuming. > > It makes a lot of sence but the mechanics trip it up. > > Mandos > /s > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] General Initiative
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:59:57 +1200
> > a mage (excluding boring single spell mages) may have 5-10 combat > > options meaning a rediculous number of different initiatives, making > > the calculation of when the mage would cast very time consuming. > > > > It makes a lot of sence but the mechanics trip it up. > just add another collumn to the spell list: initiative. > > all pre-planned and pre-calculated. just like the weapon-meisters No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the initiative is and then sort out the order again. Every pulse...... Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init sequence quite radically. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Languages.
From	Andrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:03:55 +1200
I think you learn from unranked. This is the same as with warrior using weapons as if at half rank - they still need to rank from the start. It makes ranking simple and stops number crunching on silly things. Any arguments for "reality" on either side in ranking are secondary to this point for me. Given that, I can debug in a large number of computer languages on first contact - doesn't mean that I can start programming in them without learning the basic structures and principles. I understand real languages are modelled on programming :) Andrew -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 12:32 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Languages. Just thought I would rank languages for a change. If you have a language at an effective rank of 2 because you know other languages do you start to rank from 2 or do you relearn it from unranked? If you say learn the language to 1 do you still use it at the effective rank or the actual rank? I suspect you have you buy from unranked buy get the language at the effective rank, but it does seem a little silly to spend a number of weeks learning something to end up at the same level of skill. Just be interested in peoples thoughts on this. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Languages.
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:05:59 +1200
> I think you learn from unranked. > This is the same as with warrior using weapons as if at half > rank - they still need to rank from the start. > > It makes ranking simple and stops number crunching on silly things. > > Any arguments for "reality" on either side in ranking are > secondary to this point for me. > > Given that, I can debug in a large number of computer > languages on first contact - doesn't mean that I can start > programming in them without learning the basic structures and > principles. I understand real languages are modelled on programming :) Excellent, that matches my thinking. Which rank would you use for the useage of the skill? Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Languages.
From	Andrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 13:10:34 +1200
The better of the two - unless you were actively practising, in which case the rank you have ranked to. <warning - childhood anecdote> I learnt Foil to (say) Rank 4 at High School. When I was messing around with Sabre, I was more fluent than when actually training. When I was learning Sabre (for a couple of weeks), I would get welts all over my arms, but when the tutor wasn't watching, I could defend myself a lot better, but didn't learn much. I would say that I was unranked in Sabre, but used Rank 2 Foil except when under a beady eye. Andrew -----Original Message----- > I think you learn from unranked. Excellent, that matches my thinking. Which rank would you use for the useage of the skill? Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Combat casting IV
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:39:02 +1200
Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to be the spell IV. We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have. It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character. And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA and Spell rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability. What about average Spell rank? Just spells not spells and rituals. One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat and reflects the amount of work a mage has put into their magic. It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be calculated once for each session. (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and dividing by 17 gives her an average rank of 5) If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she could have an IV of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 = 32 and the maximum any mage could possibly get is about 55-60. I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character experience, and full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we also don't want right? Helen -------------------------------------------------------------- No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the initiative is and then sort out the order again. Every pulse...... Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init sequence quite radically. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Initative and PC
From	Noel\ Livingston\ \(DSL\ AK\)
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:07:44 +1200
Helen wrote I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character experience I have a character (Arnaud) who has not raised PC after 10 adventures, so this is not actually true. He is experienced but not perceptive, so does this mean he "appears" inexperienced to the more perceptive people because he is slow, due to his "inexperience", regardless of his ranks in weapons etc. Appearing "inexperienced" when you are actally not is quite funky. Cheers Noel -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Initative and PC
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:15:42 +1200 (NZST)
Noel, you work in IT. Do you base a Business Rule around the single exception? Arnaud has a specific reason for not raising his PC for which he gains certain specific advantages. This is a disadvantage that goes with being blissfully unaware of his surroundings. Please use a Use Case that better represents the user base. Cheers, Stephen. DSL AK said: > Helen wrote > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character experience > > I have a character (Arnaud) who has not raised PC after 10 adventures, so this is not actually > true. He is experienced but not perceptive, so does this mean he "appears" inexperienced to the > more perceptive people because he is slow, due to his "inexperience", regardless of his ranks in > weapons etc. > > Appearing "inexperienced" when you are actally not is quite funky. > > Cheers Noel > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Initative and PC
From	Zane Mendoza
Date	Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
Actually I think the point Noel was getting at is not everyone ranks PC every adventure so PC isn't a true idea of how experienced a character is but it seems that the larger portion of the guild does rank perception once an adventure so for the purpose it seems alright. On a side note or should I say more to the topic at hand. My vote would be merge the initiative's on a trial basis once we work out a way for spell casting to have an initiative value, I would also say that the Initiative value for spell casting should be based on MA as aside from Namers the MA requirement for the colleges is 0ver 10 which gives us a good bench mark (Namers can get over it personally they cast there counterspells faster than anyone else can cast spells anyway) and just use MA+PC. It is an easy formula to follow it uses existing stats that will have a range of between 16-50 compared to a fighter whose normal range would be somewhere between 17-48+ dependant on AG and if the fighter starts with 5 or higher PC. Yes mages might be slightly faster dependant on college etc but not by a lot, and fighters will also likely get a IV bonus from warrior which will more than make up for the difference. just my little bit of input. Zane --- Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net> wrote: > Noel, you work in IT. Do you base a Business Rule > around the single exception? > > Arnaud has a specific reason for not raising his PC > for which he gains certain specific advantages. > This is a disadvantage that goes with being > blissfully unaware of his surroundings. > > Please use a Use Case that better represents the > user base. > > Cheers, Stephen. > > DSL AK said: > > Helen wrote > > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of > character experience > > > > I have a character (Arnaud) who has not raised PC > after 10 adventures, so this is not actually > > true. He is experienced but not perceptive, so > does this mean he "appears" inexperienced to the > > more perceptive people because he is slow, due to > his "inexperience", regardless of his ranks in > > weapons etc. > > > > Appearing "inexperienced" when you are actally not > is quite funky. > > > > Cheers Noel > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify > mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > -- to unsubscribe notify > mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:50:20 +1200
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADDF.1BFE73A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather than something that drops while you rank up a new high-EM spell. Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic? We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking into account their ability with magic. Cheers Errol > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Saggers [mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV > > > Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to > be the spell IV. > We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have. > It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character. > And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA > and Spell > rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability. > > What about average Spell rank? > > Just spells not spells and rituals. > One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat > and reflects > the amount of work a mage has put into their magic. > It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be > calculated once for each > session. > > (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and > dividing by 17 > gives her an average rank of 5) > > If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she > could have an IV > of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 = 32 and the maximum any mage could > possibly get is > about 55-60. > > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character > experience, and > full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we > also don't want > right? > > Helen > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you > know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you > have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the > initiative is and then sort out the order again. > > Every pulse...... > > Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than > once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who > could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back > again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init > sequence quite radically. > > Mandos > /s > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADDF.1BFE73A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Combat casting IV</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, = rather than something that drops while you rank up a new high-EM = spell.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe = Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when = you aren't doing magic? </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping = back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking = into account their ability with magic.</FONT></P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: Helen Saggers [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz">mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Our sticking point on a workable initiative = system seems to </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> be the spell IV.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> We need a system that is fairly stable like the = fighters have.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow = with the Character.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> And there is a strong argument for it to take = into account MA </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> and Spell</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> rank. However including spell rank instantly = removes the stability.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> What about average Spell rank?  </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Just spells not spells and rituals. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> One figure for all casting, it gives stable = number in combat </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> and reflects</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> the amount of work a mage has put into their = magic.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> It's not elegant and simple but it only needs = to be </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> calculated once for each</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> session.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up = the ranks and </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> dividing by 17</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> gives her an average rank of 5)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell = rank, she </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> could have an IV</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 =3D 32 and the maximum any = mage could </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> possibly get is</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> about 55-60.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of = character </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> experience, and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can = get which we </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> also don't want</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> right?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Helen</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> = --------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you = have the players and you</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> know the initative order A B C D E F, at the = start of every pulse you</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> have to work out what each mage is casting and = then find out what the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> initiative is and then sort out the order = again. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Every pulse......</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) = change weapons more than</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> once in a combat and the values are pretty = silmilar unlike a mage who</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a = rank 20 spell and back</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> again. This in turn will be changing where they = may be in the init</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> sequence quite radically. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Mandos</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> /s</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -- to unsubscribe notify <A = HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</= A> --</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADDF.1BFE73A0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Struan Judd
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:05:13 +1200
------=_Part_621_31280192.1125461113280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline As a Archer/Fighter/Mage I already swap between 2-3 IV's in an extended=20 combat. In fact as a Warrior I will swap between IV's as I move from ranged to Mele= e=20 to Close and back again. 2-3 IV's is fine. 10-20 is not. TTFN, Struan. On 8/31/05, Errol Cavit <tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz> wrote: >=20 > I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather than something=20 > that drops while you rank up a new high-EM spell. >=20 > Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with=20 > something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic= ?=20 >=20 > We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between= =20 > 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking into account their ability w= ith=20 > magic. >=20 > Cheers=20 > Errol=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message-----=20 > > From: Helen Saggers [mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz <helen@owbn.net.nz>]=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39=20 > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 > > Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to=20 > > be the spell IV.=20 > > We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have.=20 > > It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character.=20 > > And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA=20 > > and Spell=20 > > rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability.=20 > >=20 > > What about average Spell rank?=20 > >=20 > > Just spells not spells and rituals.=20 > > One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat=20 > > and reflects=20 > > the amount of work a mage has put into their magic.=20 > > It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be=20 > > calculated once for each=20 > > session.=20 > >=20 > > (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and=20 > > dividing by 17=20 > > gives her an average rank of 5)=20 > >=20 > > If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she=20 > > could have an IV=20 > > of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 =3D 32 and the maximum any mage could=20 > > possibly get is=20 > > about 55-60.=20 > >=20 > > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character=20 > > experience, and=20 > > full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we=20 > > also don't want=20 > > right?=20 > >=20 > > Helen=20 > >=20 > > --------------------------------------------------------------=20 > > No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you= =20 > > know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you= =20 > > have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the= =20 > > initiative is and then sort out the order again.=20 > >=20 > > Every pulse......=20 > >=20 > > Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than= =20 > > once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who= =20 > > could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back=20 > > again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init=20 > > sequence quite radically.=20 > >=20 > > Mandos=20 > > /s=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<dq-request@dq.s= f.org.nz>--=20 > >=20 > ------=_Part_621_31280192.1125461113280 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline As a Archer/Fighter/Mage I already swap between 2-3 IV's in an extended com= bat.<br> <br> In fact as a Warrior I will swap between IV's as I move from ranged to Mele= e to Close and back again.<br> <br> 2-3 IV's is fine. 10-20 is not.<br> <br> TTFN, Struan.<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 8/31/05, <b class= =3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> <<a href=3D"mailto:tmp0002@tollnz.= co.nz">tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt= 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <p><font size=3D"2">I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather= than something that drops while you rank up a new high-EM spell.</font></p= > <p><font size=3D"2">Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic? </font></p> <p><font size=3D"2">We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking into account their ability with magic.</font></p> <br> <p><font size=3D"2">Cheers</font> <br><span class=3D"sg"><font size=3D"2">Errol</font> </span></p><div><span class=3D"e" id=3D"q_1060aab820b35144_3"> <p><font size=3D"2">> -----Original Message-----</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> From: Helen Saggers [<a href=3D"mailto:helen@owbn= .net.nz" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,even= t,this)">mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz</a>]</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> To: <a href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"= _blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">dq@dq.sf.o= rg.nz</a></font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Our sticking point on a workable initiative syste= m seems to </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> be the spell IV.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> We need a system that is fairly stable like the f= ighters have.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow w= ith the Character.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> And there is a strong argument for it to take int= o account MA </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> and Spell</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> rank. However including spell rank instantly remo= ves the stability.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> What about average Spell rank?  </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Just spells not spells and rituals. </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> One figure for all casting, it gives stable numbe= r in combat </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> and reflects</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> the amount of work a mage has put into their magi= c.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to = be </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> calculated once for each</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> session.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up t= he ranks and </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> dividing by 17</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> gives her an average rank of 5)</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell r= ank, she </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> could have an IV</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 =3D 32 and the maximum any m= age could </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> possibly get is</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> about 55-60.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of ch= aracter </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> experience, and</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get = which we </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> also don't want</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> right?</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Helen</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> -------------------------------------------------= -------------</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you hav= e the players and you</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> know the initative order A B C D E F, at the star= t of every pulse you</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> have to work out what each mage is casting and th= en find out what the</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> initiative is and then sort out the order again. = </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Every pulse......</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) chan= ge weapons more than</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> once in a combat and the values are pretty silmil= ar unlike a mage who</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank = 20 spell and back</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> again. This in turn will be changing where they m= ay be in the init</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> sequence quite radically. </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> Mandos</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> /s</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> <br><font size=3D"2">> -- to unsubscribe notify <a href=3D"mailto:dq-req= uest@dq.sf.org.nz" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(w= indow,event,this)">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> </p> </span></div></blockquote></div><br> ------=_Part_621_31280192.1125461113280-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:19:19 +1200 (NZST)
Players having 4, 5, or even 40 different IVs is manageable. Less is easier and faster but even with lots, each player is keeping track of one character and can co-ordinate with their fellows to work out who goes next. A small fight with 2 or 3 bad guys is also manageable. But what about 12 to 30 bad guys. 70% of them probably just use the same weapons and same IV. But the 5 mages could have 10 different IVs each. Completely unplayable in my book. And I am not keen on introducing rules that I know I am going to fudge. Cheers, Stephen. Struan Judd said: > As a Archer/Fighter/Mage I already swap between 2-3 IV's in an extended combat. > > In fact as a Warrior I will swap between IV's as I move from ranged to Melee to Close and back > again. > > 2-3 IV's is fine. 10-20 is not. > > TTFN, Struan. > > On 8/31/05, Errol Cavit <tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz> wrote: >> >> I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather than something that drops while you >> rank up a new high-EM spell. >> >> Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged >> IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic? >> >> We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth >> the extra flavour of taking into account their ability with magic. >> >> Cheers >> Errol >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Helen Saggers [mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz <helen@owbn.net.nz>] Sent: Wednesday, 31 >> August 2005 14:39 >> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >> > Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV >> > >> > >> > Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to >> > be the spell IV. >> > We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have. It also like the weapon IV >> system needs to grow with the Character. And there is a strong argument for it to take into >> account MA and Spell >> > rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability. >> > >> > What about average Spell rank? >> > >> > Just spells not spells and rituals. >> > One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat >> > and reflects >> > the amount of work a mage has put into their magic. >> > It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be >> > calculated once for each >> > session. >> > >> > (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and dividing by 17 >> > gives her an average rank of 5) >> > >> > If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she >> > could have an IV >> > of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 = 32 and the maximum any mage could >> > possibly get is >> > about 55-60. >> > >> > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character >> > experience, and >> > full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we >> > also don't want >> > right? >> > >> > Helen >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------- No the problem is at the >> start of pulse 1 you have the players and you know the initative order A B C D E F, at the >> start of every pulse you have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what >> the initiative is and then sort out the order again. >> > >> > Every pulse...... >> > >> > Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than once in a combat and >> the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to >> a rank 20 spell and back again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init >> sequence quite radically. >> > >> > Mandos >> > /s >> > >> > >> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz<dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>-- >> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:26:24 +1200
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADE4.25584DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This sounds reasonable when you are resolving by engagement, then unengaged side - generally you only have to worry about relative IV with 1-4 other figures. How about when when it's your IV relative to everyone on the hexmap, including the GM slotting in the NPCs? Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: Struan Judd [mailto:scifigeeknz@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:05 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Combat casting IV As a Archer/Fighter/Mage I already swap between 2-3 IV's in an extended combat. In fact as a Warrior I will swap between IV's as I move from ranged to Melee to Close and back again. 2-3 IV's is fine. 10-20 is not. TTFN, Struan. On 8/31/05, Errol Cavit < tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz <mailto:tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz> > wrote: I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather than something that drops while you rank up a new high-EM spell. Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic? We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking into account their ability with magic. Cheers Errol > -----Original Message----- > From: Helen Saggers [ mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz <mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz> ] > Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz> > Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV > > > Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to > be the spell IV. > We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have. > It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character. > And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA > and Spell > rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability. > > What about average Spell rank? > > Just spells not spells and rituals. > One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat > and reflects > the amount of work a mage has put into their magic. > It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be > calculated once for each > session. > > (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and > dividing by 17 > gives her an average rank of 5) > > If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she > could have an IV > of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 = 32 and the maximum any mage could > possibly get is > about 55-60. > > I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character > experience, and > full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we > also don't want > right? > > Helen > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you > know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you > have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the > initiative is and then sort out the order again. > > Every pulse...... > > Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than > once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who > could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back > again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init > sequence quite radically. > > Mandos > /s > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz <mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz> -- > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADE4.25584DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This sounds reasonable when you are resolving by engagement, then unengaged side - generally you only have to worry about relative IV with 1-4 other figures.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>How about when when it's your IV relative to everyone on the hexmap, including the GM slotting in the NPCs?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=444381504-31082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Struan Judd [mailto:scifigeeknz@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 31 August 2005 16:05<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Combat casting IV<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>As a Archer/Fighter/Mage I already swap between 2-3 IV's in an extended combat.<BR><BR>In fact as a Warrior I will swap between IV's as I move from ranged to Melee to Close and back again.<BR><BR>2-3 IV's is fine. 10-20 is not.<BR><BR>TTFN, Struan.<BR><BR> <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 8/31/05, <B class=gmail_sendername>Errol Cavit</B> <<A href="mailto:tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz">tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz</A>> wrote:</SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <P><FONT size=2>I'd prefer something involving MA or 'spare' MA, rather than something that drops while you rank up a new high-EM spell.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Presumably this applies on the Cast (and maybe Prepare) pulse, with something else (engaged IV using Unarmed Rk?) when you aren't doing magic? </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>We need to ask ourselves if having (N)PCs swapping back and forth between 2-3 IVs is worth the extra flavour of taking into account their ability with magic.</FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><SPAN class=sg><FONT size=2>Errol</FONT> </SPAN></P> <DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_1060aab820b35144_3> <P><FONT size=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> From: Helen Saggers [<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz" target=_blank>mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 14:39</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> To: <A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target=_blank>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Subject: [dq] Combat casting IV</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Our sticking point on a workable initiative system seems to </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> be the spell IV.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> and Spell</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> What about average Spell rank?  </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Just spells not spells and rituals. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> and reflects</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> the amount of work a mage has put into their magic.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> calculated once for each</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> session.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> (Rowan has 17 spells from rank 3 to 8 adding up the ranks and </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> dividing by 17</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> gives her an average rank of 5)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> If IV for casting was (PC-5)/2 + MA + adv Spell rank, she </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> could have an IV</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> of (15-5)/2 + 22 + 5 = 32 and the maximum any mage could </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> possibly get is</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> about 55-60.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> I used (PC-5)/2 as PC seems to be a measure of character </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> experience, and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> full PC gives a higher IV than a fighter can get which we </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> also don't want</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> right?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Helen</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> --------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> No the problem is at the start of pulse 1 you have the players and you</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> know the initative order A B C D E F, at the start of every pulse you</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> have to work out what each mage is casting and then find out what the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> initiative is and then sort out the order again. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Every pulse......</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Warriors rarely (excluding Kit the Worrying) change weapons more than</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> once in a combat and the values are pretty silmilar unlike a mage who</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> could be skipping between a Rk 4 spell to a rank 20 spell and back</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> again. This in turn will be changing where they may be in the init</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> sequence quite radically. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Mandos</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> /s</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> -- to unsubscribe notify <A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" target=_blank>mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A> --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT></P></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5ADE4.25584DE0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Languages.
From	Clare Baldock
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:26:39 +1200
On 31/08/2005, at 12:32, Mandos Mitchinson wrote: > Just be interested in peoples thoughts on this. I agree with Andrew - you rank from unranked but use the best of actual and effective rank, cheers, clare -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Michael Parkinson
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:39:37 +1200
I strongly disagree with Helen's description & concept (attached at end). Why should Mages cast all their spells at the same initiative? The only acceptable answer is convenience -- but it is possible for a fighter who has ranked weapons to the maximum rank to have IV that varies by 6 or 7 points ... so clearly we're used to the "inconvenience" of a single character having varying IV values. Consider a mage ranking a 250 EM special spell to rank 20 ... that's 9,750 EP. I think they should be rewarded for the time & EP spent by having higher initiative with that spell. Indeed if one of the Magical IV factors is Rank [or half rank, whatever] then we are ensuring a reward for rank similar to that of weapons. Incidentally I would prefer that the Rank factor only applied to spells one CAST -- triggered or activated items having a rank of Zero (which also means that we don't have to assign a rank to item which allow a magic effect to be invoked). This would be another incentive to rank spells [Does anyone yet have Sleep over Rank 11?]. Even if you did have a single value, I would strongly recommend against using an average. Is that an average of just the spells the character knows, or all the spells in the college? The key point is ... Why should the mage be the same speed with ALL their spells? -- A fighter only has the same initiative with weapons if they're the same rank. regards, Michael ==========> We need a system that is fairly stable like the fighters have. > It also like the weapon IV system needs to grow with the Character. > And there is a strong argument for it to take into account MA > and Spell > rank. However including spell rank instantly removes the stability. > > What about average Spell rank? > > Just spells not spells and rituals. > One figure for all casting, it gives stable number in combat > and reflects > the amount of work a mage has put into their magic. > It's not elegant and simple but it only needs to be > calculated once for each > session. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Michael Parkinson
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:55:48 +1200
> But the 5 mages could have 10 different IVs each. > Completely unplayable in my book. What's unplayable? The character calculates their IV for weapons OK, why can't they do it for spells. For combats (the only time Initiave matters), I know which specific spells, & at which ranks, the NPC is probably going to cast -- no hassle. If you're doing it on the fly, and spell X at Rank 12 had IV 60; then spell Y at 15 has IV 63 ... or whatever. Feeling really lazy? ... use demons or half-devils. I think it is cute that, say, a Mage takes mild spell to high rank quickly simply so that they have high initiative on one spell so that it has a chance of hitting an enemy monster before it hits a friendly combatant. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:46:10 +1200 (NZST)
Ignoring the players - they can look after themselves or go last. :) B1 - Badguy 1 is a fighter Fire-mage, he has 60iv with unarmed, 57iv with sword, 45iv with Hellfire, 48iv with Wall of Fire, and 52iv with general unengaged actions (move, drink potion, ...) B2 - Badguy 2 is a Necro, he has 40iv with unarmed, 45iv with general actions, 58iv with Necrosis, 62iv with Stream, and 55iv with Spectral Warrior. B3 - Badguy 3 is a Namer, he has 43iv with unarmed, 48iv with general actions, 39iv with most Counterspells, 46iv with DA, 42iv with Quickness, and 40iv with Empathy. B4-10 - Badguys 4 to 10 are Glaive wielders, they have 47iv with Glaive, 45iv with unarmed, and 43iv for general actions. Pulse 1: 52: B1 prepares Hellfire 46: B3 DA's party mage 45: B2 prepares Necrosis 43: B4-7 Charge and attack 43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages Pulse 2: 58: B2 Casts Necrosis 48: B3 prepares Quickness 47: B4-6 Attack 45: B1 Casts Hellfire 43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages 1: B7 recovers from stun but has dropped his glaive Pulse 3: 52: B1 prepares Sword 45: B2 prepares Necrosis 47: B4-6 Attack 47: B10 Attacks 45: B7 (Unarmed) Evades 43: B8-9 Evade in front of the mages 42: B3 Casts Quickness (on B1 to 4) 0: B6 is down and bleeding Pulse 4: 67: B1 Attacks 57: B4 attacks 55: B2 Prepares Stream 49: B3 Casts Counterspell 47: B5 & 10 Attack 43: B7 Picks up Glaive 43: B9 Evade in front of the mages 1: B8 Fail to recover from stun 0: B6 Bleeds ... The sequence of the NPC actions changes every pulse as they change their actions, then gets worse as the Quickness, Slows, stun, disarms, spec grevs, lodged arrows, etc. all have their effects on the sequence. As I've said before, give me a spreadsheet and I can keep track of them, resort every pulse based on next action, and tick them off in sequence. Without, I am going to get it wrong, miss people, and generally be slow. It took me 10 minutes just to create this example and make sure I had the right numbers and that nobody was missed. Later at night with half a dozen players interjecting their actions and questions, I am sure that I will lose track. This is what I mean by unplayable and resulting in fudging it so they all operate on the same IV value all the time. Cheers, Stephen. Michael Parkinson said: >> But the 5 mages could have 10 different IVs each. >> Completely unplayable in my book. > > What's unplayable? The character calculates their IV for weapons OK, why can't they do it for > spells. For combats (the only time Initiave matters), I know which specific spells, & at which > ranks, the NPC is probably going to cast -- no hassle. If you're doing it on the fly, and spell > X at Rank 12 had IV 60; then spell Y at 15 has IV 63 ... or whatever. Feeling really lazy? ... > use demons or half-devils. > > I think it is cute that, say, a Mage takes mild spell to high rank quickly simply so that they > have high initiative on one spell so that it has a chance of hitting an enemy monster before it > hits a friendly combatant. > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Combat casting IV
From	Bernard Hoggins
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:05:10 +1000 (EST)
--0-483338607-1125468310=:2470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If we use this system for only engaged mages, and leave unengaged as seperate phases that people can move as groups in, this wouldn't become too much of an issue. Not a lot of time that you get mages casting a wide range of spells while engaged, usually they are throwing their 'Spell o Death' in those situations, while still giving mages some combat value for a highly ranked spell, rather than Judo making them faster. Still has no bearing on the whole one continuous phase thing, but I'd see spellrank/2 as a workable part of the engaged init value assuming split phases like currently Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net> wrote: Ignoring the players - they can look after themselves or go last. :) B1 - Badguy 1 is a fighter Fire-mage, he has 60iv with unarmed, 57iv with sword, 45iv with Hellfire, 48iv with Wall of Fire, and 52iv with general unengaged actions (move, drink potion, ...) B2 - Badguy 2 is a Necro, he has 40iv with unarmed, 45iv with general actions, 58iv with Necrosis, 62iv with Stream, and 55iv with Spectral Warrior. B3 - Badguy 3 is a Namer, he has 43iv with unarmed, 48iv with general actions, 39iv with most Counterspells, 46iv with DA, 42iv with Quickness, and 40iv with Empathy. B4-10 - Badguys 4 to 10 are Glaive wielders, they have 47iv with Glaive, 45iv with unarmed, and 43iv for general actions. Pulse 1: 52: B1 prepares Hellfire 46: B3 DA's party mage 45: B2 prepares Necrosis 43: B4-7 Charge and attack 43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages Pulse 2: 58: B2 Casts Necrosis 48: B3 prepares Quickness 47: B4-6 Attack 45: B1 Casts Hellfire 43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages 1: B7 recovers from stun but has dropped his glaive Pulse 3: 52: B1 prepares Sword 45: B2 prepares Necrosis 47: B4-6 Attack 47: B10 Attacks 45: B7 (Unarmed) Evades 43: B8-9 Evade in front of the mages 42: B3 Casts Quickness (on B1 to 4) 0: B6 is down and bleeding Pulse 4: 67: B1 Attacks 57: B4 attacks 55: B2 Prepares Stream 49: B3 Casts Counterspell 47: B5 & 10 Attack 43: B7 Picks up Glaive 43: B9 Evade in front of the mages 1: B8 Fail to recover from stun 0: B6 Bleeds ... The sequence of the NPC actions changes every pulse as they change their actions, then gets worse as the Quickness, Slows, stun, disarms, spec grevs, lodged arrows, etc. all have their effects on the sequence. As I've said before, give me a spreadsheet and I can keep track of them, resort every pulse based on next action, and tick them off in sequence. Without, I am going to get it wrong, miss people, and generally be slow. It took me 10 minutes just to create this example and make sure I had the right numbers and that nobody was missed. Later at night with half a dozen players interjecting their actions and questions, I am sure that I will lose track. This is what I mean by unplayable and resulting in fudging it so they all operate on the same IV value all the time. Cheers, Stephen. Michael Parkinson said: >> But the 5 mages could have 10 different IVs each. >> Completely unplayable in my book. > > What's unplayable? The character calculates their IV for weapons OK, why can't they do it for > spells. For combats (the only time Initiave matters), I know which specific spells, & at which > ranks, the NPC is probably going to cast -- no hassle. If you're doing it on the fly, and spell > X at Rank 12 had IV 60; then spell Y at 15 has IV 63 ... or whatever. Feeling really lazy? ... > use demons or half-devils. > > I think it is cute that, say, a Mage takes mild spell to high rank quickly simply so that they > have high initiative on one spell so that it has a chance of hitting an enemy monster before it > hits a friendly combatant. > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. --0-483338607-1125468310=:2470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <DIV>If we use this system for only engaged mages, and leave unengaged as seperate phases that people can move as groups in, this wouldn't become too much of an issue.</DIV> <DIV>   Not a lot of time that you get mages casting a wide range of spells while engaged, usually they are throwing their 'Spell o Death' in those situations, while still giving mages some combat value for a highly ranked spell, rather than Judo making them faster.</DIV> <DIV>  Still has no bearing on the whole one continuous phase thing, but I'd see spellrank/2 as a workable part of the engaged init value assuming split phases like currently</DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Ignoring the players - they can look after themselves or go last. :)<BR><BR>B1 - Badguy 1 is a fighter Fire-mage, he has 60iv with unarmed, 57iv with sword, 45iv with<BR>Hellfire, 48iv with Wall of Fire, and 52iv with general unengaged actions (move, drink potion,<BR>...)<BR><BR>B2 - Badguy 2 is a Necro, he has 40iv with unarmed, 45iv with general actions, 58iv with Necrosis,<BR>62iv with Stream, and 55iv with Spectral Warrior.<BR><BR>B3 - Badguy 3 is a Namer, he has 43iv with unarmed, 48iv with general actions, 39iv with most<BR>Counterspells, 46iv with DA, 42iv with Quickness, and 40iv with Empathy.<BR><BR>B4-10 - Badguys 4 to 10 are Glaive wielders, they have 47iv with Glaive, 45iv with unarmed, and<BR>43iv for general actions.<BR><BR>Pulse 1:<BR>52: B1 prepares Hellfire<BR>46: B3 DA's party mage<BR>45: B2 prepares Necrosis<BR>43: B4-7 Charge and attack<BR>43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages<BR><BR>Pulse 2:<BR>58: B2 Casts Necrosis<BR>48: B3 prepares Quickness<BR>47: B4-6 Attack<BR>45: B1 Casts Hellfire<BR>43: B8-10 Evade in front of the mages<BR>1: B7 recovers from stun but has dropped his glaive<BR><BR>Pulse 3:<BR>52: B1 prepares Sword<BR>45: B2 prepares Necrosis<BR>47: B4-6 Attack<BR>47: B10 Attacks<BR>45: B7 (Unarmed) Evades<BR>43: B8-9 Evade in front of the mages<BR>42: B3 Casts Quickness (on B1 to 4)<BR>0: B6 is down and bleeding<BR><BR>Pulse 4:<BR>67: B1 Attacks<BR>57: B4 attacks<BR>55: B2 Prepares Stream<BR>49: B3 Casts Counterspell<BR>47: B5 & 10 Attack<BR>43: B7 Picks up Glaive<BR>43: B9 Evade in front of the mages<BR>1: B8 Fail to recover from stun<BR>0: B6 Bleeds<BR><BR>...<BR><BR>The sequence of the NPC actions changes every pulse as they change their actions, then gets worse<BR>as the Quickness, Slows, stun, disarms, spec grevs, lodged arrows, etc. all have their effects on<BR>the sequence.<BR>As I've said before, give me a spreadsheet and I can keep track of them, resort every pulse based<BR>on next action, and tick them off in sequence. Without, I am going to get it wrong, miss people,<BR>and generally be slow. It took me 10 minutes just to create this example and make sure I had the<BR>right numbers and that nobody was missed.<BR>Later at night with half a dozen players interjecting their actions and questions, I am sure that<BR>I will lose track.<BR><BR>This is what I mean by unplayable and resulting in fudging it so they all operate on the same IV<BR>value all the time.<BR><BR>Cheers, Stephen.<BR><BR><BR>Michael Parkinson said:<BR>>> But the 5 mages could have 10 different IVs each.<BR>>> Completely unplayable in my book.<BR>><BR>> What's unplayable? The character calculates their IV for weapons OK, why can't they do it for<BR>> spells. For combats (the only time Initiave matters), I know which specific spells, & at which<BR>> ranks, the NPC is probably going to cast -- no hassle. If you're doing it on the fly, and spell<BR>> X at Rank 12 had IV 60; then spell Y at 15 has IV 63 ... or whatever. Feeling really lazy? ...<BR>> use demons or half-devils.<BR>><BR>> I think it is cute that, say, a Mage takes mild spell to high rank quickly simply so that they<BR>> have high initiative on one spell so that it has a chance of hitting an enemy monster before it<BR>> hits a friendly combatant.<BR>><BR>><BR>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p> <hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail/au/tag/newmovies/**http%3A%2F%2Fau.movies.yahoo.com%2F"> The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database.</a> --0-483338607-1125468310=:2470-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Quickness
From	Michael Scott
Date	Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:42:09 +1200
>From: Helen Saggers <helen@owbn.net.nz> >Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz >Subject: [dq] Quickness >Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:44:49 +1200 > >Changing the rules won't completely solve your problem, disorganized >players >and/or GMs will still be disorganized and confused about where in the Pulse >they are or what Pulse they are in. >(Not a critique of anyone in particular, just an observation, and even the >best organized have bad days, when they just can't concentrate.) In large scale combats the GM IMHO should be using the party Mil Sci to track the IV order for the party and tell them what the players actions are, or at least have the appropiate party member ready to declare and roll when they are pointed at. Also why are GMs complaining that there plans are changed by an unexpected invested or spell? Thou art god. If it fucks with your story, CPD a fix, the players wont notice (or care if they do) if a enemy suddenly pulls out a forgotton one shot quickness or slowness and rebalances the fight, espeacially if it adds to there enjoyment. Also of my four characters that have been running for 3-4years only one of them has come across a mage that could invest quickness (a fire mage as it happens) and have adventured with a quick mage only twice. Most quicknesses seem to come from loot (investeds and items) given out by GMs so maybe some guide lines there could help with the problem. As to my exp of the spell If it aint broke don't fix TTFN Michael _________________________________________________________________ Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --