Messages for 13 October 2005

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	William Dymock
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:38:32 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C5CFD9.E0219FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Appropriate fear of death will inspire more caution, will generate more realistic responses to extreme danger. It will also reduce heroism, bold adventures against impossible odds, etc. How? If death is actually real it makes a 'last stand' a real 'last stand' as opposed to generically contrived combat #2. A desperate assault (ala 30 'men' storming the Dark Lords 'castle' in Star Wars) a truly desperate and heroic affair. When was the last time a character really died in such a situation? Why is the melodramatic convention of 'Tell Scorpian...I... still owe him 50sp' (I just couldn't put in 'I love him') completly lacking? With real danger perhaps players will explore the other possiabilities of conflict rersolution; sneaking, subterfuge, sabotage, persuasion and demolerisation on the enemy. The Grey Mouser is a heroic figure, as is Jimmy the Hand, Miles Vorkosigan and Granny Weatherwax. However none of these do physical confrontations as a first and even second choice. On a recent adventure my character refused to proceed down the path of the adventure because the next step was into a place from which there was no in-character reason to expect to survive and the potential gain was not worth his life. Fortunately for the GM and the game most of the party did take that step (for various reasons - fatalism, curiosity, self-belief, or not wanting to disrupt the game flow). But which is the better result? As a result of my character choice I missed out on the core challenge of the adventure, the funky wierd puzzle of how to get out again. If the entire party had walked away it would have been a very short adventure. So roleplaying in a believable and consistant manner is a bad thing? What are you saying? With a higher level of fear, an in game fear of death, how many adventurers would be found to oppose the Dark Circle? How many would get halfway though the adventure and then say - yep it's a Dragon all right, let's go tell the Duke it's time to move. With a higher level of actual danger, why have a dark circle (and it's associated cheese) at all? The DC exists to provide an area for undead to be scary in because so many people have undead slaying cheese. Undead just were'nt a threat. So an area of new and improved undead was provided. the whole issue would of been different if PCs didn't normally build up such levels of sillyness themselves. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, we do need a higher expectation of risk to add an element of fear and an in-game expectation that this could be your last act. But it needs to be balanced - a reasonable level of fear. So, it should be above 0? btw 5 or 10, or 20 years of play of a character and still finding interest and enjoying it is not something to be trivialised. The longevity is one of the defining aspects of our campaign. There are lots of games where you live hard and die young, most campaigns are like this. Our campaign is different in that you get to define and evolve your character over a course of years. And I'm not. Having played a character that long is an achievemnet in and of itself especially since the 20 yo adventurer should be substanstially different from the bright eyed gormless wonder they used to be. But it just shouldn't be the inevitable norm. And I think PD does very good things to a player's gaming. Some players wonder why my characters are cautious and try to out htink rather than out-gun the enemy. And the simple answer is that one of my PCs is a pile o ash. William -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. 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Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	William Dymock
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:56:51 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C5CFDC.6EFBD600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit RE: [dq] Permanent Death What GM wants to PK a player who does not want PD? Why am I reminded of the ignoble marine from Gulf War II 'I joined up because it was a great career choice, I didn't expect to be sent to a war zone'. Hello, the game should have some level of actual risk in it. The player has been playing the character for years – has lovingly toiled to make the character how they want it – they dream about the character – they identify as if they are the character etc etc etc Yes a character is an interactive ongoing story. But type in the words 'Mary Sue' in your search engine. Reward without true risk makes for a very poor story. What GM is willing to take this away??? What GM would kill a Vychan, a TDP, a sir Christopher, or any number of others – when the players do not want to die. Even a player with 5 years history is generally deeply cherished by the player. This is called begging the question. What GM would be so nasty as to spoil my fun? Again the player should realise that at some point their character's story should come to an end. It can be from retiring, and resting on one's laurels or from being stabbed in the guts by some orc footsoldier on the walls of some human fort in the back of beyond. The ongoing story ala R.Jordan is utter crap for a reason. To me this is the real issue here. Players like to be in charge of their character destiny – unfortunately the culture of ”I will not get PK here because that just doesn’t happen” means that players play to this (probably without even noticing that they are doing this). And they are. They choose their actions, and their actions (should) have consequences. However denying that adventuring is a dangerous activity is just silly. Perhaps the suggestion of making resurrection painfully slow is a good one this would certainly stop me from being so cavalier with GoK’s life. It may be the ease of resurrection that is as much the problem as PD. I disagree, rapid ressurection gets players involved again. That's a good thing. William -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C5CFDC.6EFBD600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [dq] = Permanent Death</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dwindows-1250"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType name=3D"City"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"place"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"Street"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"address"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"PersonName"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Book Antiqua; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: = "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2><BR></FONT> </DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What GM = wants to PK a=20 player who does not want PD?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT color=3D#000000>Why am I reminded of = the ignoble=20 marine from Gulf War II 'I joined up because it was a great career = choice, I=20 didn't expect to be sent to a war zone'. Hello, the game should have = some=20 level of actual risk in it.</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The player = has been=20 playing the character for years =96 has lovingly toiled to make the = character=20 how they want it =96 they dream about the character =96 they identify = as if they=20 are the character etc etc etc  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT color=3D#000000>Yes a character is an = interactive=20 ongoing story. But type in the words 'Mary Sue' in your search engine. = Reward=20 without true risk makes for a very poor = story.</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What GM is = willing to=20 take this away???  What GM would kill a Vychan, a TDP, a sir = Christopher,=20 or any number of others =96 when the players do not want to die.  = Even a=20 player with 5 years history is generally deeply cherished by the=20 player.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT color=3D#000000>This is called = begging the=20 question. What GM would be so nasty as to spoil my fun? Again the = player=20 should realise that at some point their character's story should come = to an=20 end. It can be from retiring, and resting on one's laurels or from = being=20 stabbed in the guts by some orc footsoldier on the walls of some human = fort in=20 the back of beyond. The ongoing story ala R.Jordan is utter crap for a = reason.</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To me this = is the=20 real issue here.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Players = like to be in=20 charge of their character destiny =96 unfortunately the culture of = =94I will not=20 get PK here because that just doesn=92t happen=94 means that players = play to this=20 (probably without even noticing that they are doing=20 this).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT color=3D#000000>And they are. They = choose their=20 actions, and their actions (should) have consequences. However denying = that=20 adventuring is a dangerous activity is just silly.=20 </FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Perhaps the = suggestion of making resurrection painfully slow is a good one this = would=20 certainly stop me from being so cavalier with GoK=92s life.  It = may be the=20 ease of resurrection that is as much the problem as=20 PD.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT color=3D#000000>I disagree, rapid = ressurection=20 gets players involved again. That's a good=20 thing.</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT=20 color=3D#000000></FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN=20 class=3D627193620-12102005><FONT=20 color=3D#000000>William</FONT></SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C5CFDC.6EFBD600-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	William Dymock
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:56:54 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C5CFDC.70C635C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Currently the loss of equipment is often feared more than death. One option is to introduce more irresurectable deaths into the game and also introduce a new Resurrection ability at Rk 10 which is to "Rebirth" someone whose body is destroyed and/or soul departed (probably at high cost of materials and recovery time). The character would survive but their gear is probably all gone and they are restored to life in their true form (many body-mods and oddities would also go). To a Low character this is probably not too much of an issue, to a medium it hurts but at least you are alive, to a high it probably demotes you to medium until you can regain enough gear to become high again. It introduces risks without necessarily ending the story of a character you are still enjoying. Excellent! Increase the peanut ration to slave 232, Smithers. :.-) This is a good compromise. I would word it 'returned to their original starting form. Otherwise game reward n+1 becomes, 'my true rebirth form is my current one'. William -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. 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Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:21:25 +1300
------=_Part_20826_11295478.1129080085010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, Sally and Brent Jackson <salient@kc.net.nz> wrote: > > > On a recent adventure my character refused to proceed down the path of th= e > adventure because the next step was into a place from which there was no > in-character reason to expect to survive... > > > That's the whole point Stephen. My character went in, despite the threat > of PD, and others followed her. The players/characters weren't scared eno= ugh > of PD to risk their x years of roleplaying history. Sally, may I politely say that, speaking for myself at least, you are incorrect. While although as a player I had some doubts that the GM would slay/entrap the entire party I was extremely nervous about it... and had nightmares on more than one occasion. My character on the other hand, due to demonic dabblings in his past, had intellectual reservations but no such fears and that is why he went in. If he had been as fearful as me, Stephen and Phil would have had another keeping their PCs company. :-) It was unfortunate that two of the players were separated from the party fo= r such a period. Having had to walk away once from an adventure that proved morally impossible for my character, and thus not getting to play, I can sympathise. My character did die on the way back, but the GM wimped out of making it a > PD. The GM lost this opportunity to teach the players to fear PD. Odd situation. Given the GM described weird world you chose actions (thoughts, actually) that led to death. The GM chose not to make it unrecoverable. I'm sure you both had your reasons. Maybe I'm unusual in this -- but I've always gone into any risky undertakin= g in DQ expecting that I may loose my character. I'm amazed (and somewhat appalled) that others would show a cavalier attitude to this. As a GM I've caused three permanent character deaths over the years, and I still have doubts over two of them. The problem being that as GM you have indefinite, if not infinite, powers and can easily slay the entire party despite all of their abilities if you should so wish. It all becomes a matter of what seems reasonable, (and what fits with the nature and mood of the adventure). I think William was addressing the culture of GMing in this campaign, whic= h > has evolved to this style of fearing to give out PD. Well of course it has -- I cannot think how it could not, give the nature o= f the player group many of whom are 'older' (if not mature) :-), and play wit= h their friends of many years as a social activity, or who GM for fun, not as a competitive sport with a running bodycount total. Different people want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a while t= o get that through my skull. There are people who want to play uber-level games, and (now) I think that if they want to do that, and it can be accommodated without breaking the rest of the campaign then so be it. By the same token, and to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want to play DQ Hardcore then fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to consider this desirable as either a Player or as a GM. Kind Regards, Martin ------=_Part_20826_11295478.1129080085010 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Sally and Brent Jackson</b> <= <a href=3D"mailto:salient@kc.net.nz">salient@kc.net.nz</a>> wrote:<div><= span class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p= adding-left: 1ex;"> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"q"><br> On a recent adventure my character refused to proceed down the path of the adventure because the next step was into a place from which there was n= o in-character reason to expect to survive...</span></blockquote> <br> That's the whole point Stephen.  My character went in, despite the threat of PD, and others followed her.  The players/characters weren't scared enough of PD to risk their x years of roleplaying history.</blockquote><div><br> Sally, may I politely say that, speaking for myself at least, you are incor= rect.<br> <br> While although as a player I had some doubts that the GM would slay/entrap the entire party I was extremely nervous about it... and had nightmares on more than one occasion.<br> <br> My character on the other hand, due to demonic dabblings in his past, had intellectual reservations but no such fears and that is why he went in.  If he had been as fearful as me, Stephen and Phil would have had another keeping their PCs company. :-)<br> <br> It was unfortunate that two of the players were separated from the party for such a period. Having had to walk away once from an adventure that proved morally impossible for my character, and thus not getting to play, I can sympathise.<br> </div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">  = My character did die on the way back, but the GM wimped out of making it a PD.  The GM lost this opportunity to teach the players to fear PD.</blockquote><div><br> Odd situation.  Given the GM described weird world you chose actions (thoughts, actually) that led to death. The GM chose not to make it unrecoverable. I'm sure you both had your reasons.<br> <br> Maybe I'm unusual in this -- but I've always gone into any risky undertaking in DQ expecting that I may loose my character. I'm amazed (and somewhat appalled) that others would show a cavalier attitude to this.<br> <br> As a GM I've caused three permanent character deaths over the years, and I still have doubts over two of them.  The problem being that as GM you have indefinite, if not infinite, powers and can easily slay the entire party despite all of their abilities if you should so wish. It all becomes a matter of what seems reasonable, (and what fits with the nature and mood of the adventure).<br> </div><br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, = 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I think William was addressing the culture of GMing in this campaign, which has evolved to this style of fearing to give out  PD.</blockquot= e><div><br> Well of course it has -- I cannot think how it could not, give the nature of the player group many of whom are 'older' (if not mature) :-), and play with their friends of many years as a social activity, or who GM for fun, not as a competitive sport with a running bodycount total.<br> <br> Different people want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a while to get that through my skull.  There are people who want to play uber-level games, and (now) I think that if they want to do that, and it can be accommodated without breaking the rest of the campaign then so be it.<br> <br> By the same token, and to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want to play DQ Hardcore then fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to consider this desirable as either a Player or as a GM.<br> <br> Kind Regards,<br> Martin<br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_20826_11295478.1129080085010-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Michael Woodhams
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:52:11 +1300
On Thu, 2005-10-13 at 09:38, William Dymock wrote: > perhaps players will explore the other possiabilities of > conflict rersolution; sneaking, subterfuge, sabotage, persuasion and > demolerisation on the enemy. I think demolerisation is seldom available as an option except for particularly determined tooth fairies. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:29:39 +1300
------=_Part_5256_6176346.1129145379640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, ian at dawn haven <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > > Remove the guild healing potions, and fights will last much less, and > people > will avoid combat where possible. So, that'll work in favour of the "serious fighters", right? :-) ------=_Part_5256_6176346.1129145379640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">ian at dawn haven</b> <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>> wrote:<div><= span class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p= adding-left: 1ex;"> Remove the guild healing potions, and fights will last much less, and peopl= e<br>will avoid combat where possible.</blockquote><div><br> So, that'll work in favour of the "serious fighters", right? :-)<= br> <br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_5256_6176346.1129145379640-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:33:18 +1300
------=_Part_5296_12659096.1129145598772 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, Kharsis <kharsis@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > > Another option that springs to mind would be to move resurrection to > Rank 10 Healer, shifting the regeneration abilities to 8 & 9 respectively= . > > I have always wondered why it is easier to bring someone back from the > dead than regrow lost body parts. One effect of having the ranks / abilities this way around is a limit at Ranks 8 & 9 at least on what sort of death can be recovered from. If you can resurrect, but not regenerate, and your patient's head is missing... ------=_Part_5296_12659096.1129145598772 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Kharsis</b> <<a href=3D"mailt= o:kharsis@ihug.co.nz">kharsis@ihug.co.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span class=3D"= gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:= 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex= ;"> Another option that springs to mind would be to move resurrection to<br>Ran= k 10 Healer, shifting the regeneration abilities to 8 & 9 respectively.= <br><br>I have always wondered why it is easier to bring someone back from = the <br>dead than regrow lost body parts.</blockquote><div><br> One effect of having the ranks / abilities this way around is a limit at Ranks 8 & 9 at least on what sort of death can be recovered from.<br= > <br> If you can resurrect, but not regenerate, and your patient's head is missin= g...<br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_5296_12659096.1129145598772-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:25:50 +1300
------=_Part_5224_22759215.1129145150833 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, Mandos Mitchinson <mandos@allowed.to> wrote: > > > It's a wiki. > > You want it there you add it, if it's crap someone else will remove it. Or more likely tidy it up, re-work sections, expand areas, etc. One of the great things about the collaborative writing style of a wiki is that it's easy to add the little bits that you know and have other people to add to i= t -- rather than feeling you have to have a complete document, or get it righ= t first time. Cheers, Martin ------=_Part_5224_22759215.1129145150833 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Mandos Mitchinson</b> <<a hre= f=3D"mailto:mandos@allowed.to">mandos@allowed.to</a>> wrote:<div><span c= lass=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-l= eft: 1ex;"> <br>It's a wiki.<br><br>You want it there you add it, if it's crap someone = else will remove it.</blockquote><div><br> Or more likely tidy it up, re-work sections, expand areas, etc.  One of the great things about the collaborative writing style of a wiki is that it's easy to add the little bits that you know and have other people to add to it -- rather than feeling you have to have a complete document, or get it right first time.<br> <br> Cheers,<br> Martin<br> <br> <br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_5224_22759215.1129145150833-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:51:47 +1300
------=_Part_5596_14224407.1129146707435 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, Errol Cavit <tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz> wrote: > > > Make it more of a bad thing, while still being able to reward the heroi= c > death, > > and the way to do that is by removing items and abilities. > > > > Isn't loss of items mainly a function of who controls the battlefield > after a fight, rather than who died? Or do you mean that having a high > material cost of resurrection will force PCs to sell their good stuff? > Colour me equally puzzled. What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic items explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down o= n the number of insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend to NPCs too). Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all their gear gets split amongst the party? :-) (Should lead to guild harmony) Or is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered? Or charge extravagantly? :-) OK, silliness aside, I just don't see the problem. Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a different group, but my experienc= e both as a player and GM is that character death is not treated flippantly -= - except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to minimize risk and actively avoid death. My own main character (played on and off for 20 years) has died exactly once; when a GM recently killed the entire party at the hands... err... fins of a trout, and then ressurected them all with no consequences. (I would argue that a GM using party death as a transport mechanism risks cheapening things -- but it wasn't the players' doing). I would also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk (which any of the suggested changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in past to GM= s claiming that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared to heroically throw themselves in harms way. What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down? ------=_Part_5596_14224407.1129146707435 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> <<a href=3D"m= ailto:tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz">tmp0002@tollnz.co.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span c= lass=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bord= er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-l= eft: 1ex;"> <p><span class=3D"q"><font size=3D"2">> Make it more of a</font> <font s= ize=3D"2">bad thing, while still being able to reward the heroic death, </f= ont> <br><font size=3D"2">> and the way to</font> <font size=3D"2">do that is= by removing items and abilities.</font> <br><font size=3D"2">> </font> </span></p> <p><font size=3D"2">Isn't loss of items mainly a function of who controls the battlefield after a fight, rather than who died? Or do you mean that having a high material cost of resurrection will force PCs to sell their good stuff?</font></p></blockquote><div><br> Colour me equally puzzled.  What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic items explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down on the number of insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend to NPCs too).  Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all their gear gets split amongst the party? :-)  (Should lead to guild harmony) Or is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered?  Or charge extravagantly? :-)<br> <br> OK, silliness aside, I just don't see the problem.<br> <br> Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a different group, but my experience both as a player and GM is that character death is not treated flippantly -- except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to minimize risk and actively avoid death. My own main character (played on and off for 20 years) has died exactly once; when a GM recently killed the entire party at the hands... err... fins of a trout, and then ressurected them all with no consequences. (I would argue that a GM using party death as a transport mechanism risks cheapening things -- but it wasn't the players' doing).<br> <br> I would also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk (which any of the suggested changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in past to GMs claiming that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared to heroically throw themselves in harms way.<br> <br> What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down?<br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_5596_14224407.1129146707435-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Simpson
From	\ Mark\ \(NZ\)
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:45:41 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF76.4AE2AF58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martin wrote: =20 "Different people want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a = while to get that through my skull. There are people who want to play = uber-level games, and (now) I think that if they want to do that, and it = can be accommodated without breaking the rest of the campaign then so be = it. By the same token, and to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want = to play DQ Hardcore then fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to = consider this desirable as either a Player or as a GM." And different gm's want different things. I've played under gm's who = expect you to carefully plan each encounter with great care, and who = punish you for any reckless/careless play, whereas other GM's I've = played under prefer and encourage a much faster/looser game with = heroic/reckless actions rewarded, and meticulous planning being = discouraged and even punished as being "too cautious" and taking too = much time. Players have different styles and so do GM's, and its really = the players that need to adapt. The risk is that a player used to the = "heroic/loose" stlye cops a PD from a "tighter" GM because they are used = to a different style.=20 =20 For what its worth my own personal preference is somewhere in the middle = but leaning towards the tighter stlye.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of = Martin Dickson Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2005 2:21 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Permanent Death On 10/12/05, Sally and Brent Jackson < salient@kc.net.nz> wrote:=20 On a recent adventure my character refused to proceed down the path of = the adventure because the next step was into a place from which there = was no in-character reason to expect to survive... That's the whole point Stephen. My character went in, despite the = threat of PD, and others followed her. The players/characters weren't = scared enough of PD to risk their x years of roleplaying history. Sally, may I politely say that, speaking for myself at least, you are = incorrect. While although as a player I had some doubts that the GM would = slay/entrap the entire party I was extremely nervous about it... and had = nightmares on more than one occasion. My character on the other hand, due to demonic dabblings in his past, = had intellectual reservations but no such fears and that is why he went = in. If he had been as fearful as me, Stephen and Phil would have had = another keeping their PCs company. :-) It was unfortunate that two of the players were separated from the party = for such a period. Having had to walk away once from an adventure that = proved morally impossible for my character, and thus not getting to = play, I can sympathise. My character did die on the way back, but the GM wimped out of making = it a PD. The GM lost this opportunity to teach the players to fear PD. Odd situation. Given the GM described weird world you chose actions = (thoughts, actually) that led to death. The GM chose not to make it = unrecoverable. I'm sure you both had your reasons. Maybe I'm unusual in this -- but I've always gone into any risky = undertaking in DQ expecting that I may loose my character. I'm amazed = (and somewhat appalled) that others would show a cavalier attitude to = this. As a GM I've caused three permanent character deaths over the years, and = I still have doubts over two of them. The problem being that as GM you = have indefinite, if not infinite, powers and can easily slay the entire = party despite all of their abilities if you should so wish. It all = becomes a matter of what seems reasonable, (and what fits with the = nature and mood of the adventure). I think William was addressing the culture of GMing in this campaign, = which has evolved to this style of fearing to give out PD. Well of course it has -- I cannot think how it could not, give the = nature of the player group many of whom are 'older' (if not mature) :-), = and play with their friends of many years as a social activity, or who = GM for fun, not as a competitive sport with a running bodycount total. Different people want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a = while to get that through my skull. There are people who want to play = uber-level games, and (now) I think that if they want to do that, and it = can be accommodated without breaking the rest of the campaign then so be = it. By the same token, and to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want = to play DQ Hardcore then fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to = consider this desirable as either a Player or as a GM. Kind Regards, Martin ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF76.4AE2AF58 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D382305320-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Martin=20 wrote:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D382305320-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><SPAN class=3D382305320-12102005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>"<FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000 = size=3D3>Different people=20 want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a while to get that = through=20 my skull.  There are people who want to play uber-level games, = and (now)=20 I think that if they want to do that, and it can be accommodated = without=20 breaking the rest of the campaign then so be it.<BR><BR>By the same = token, and=20 to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want to play DQ Hardcore = then=20 fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to consider this desirable as = either=20 a Player or as a GM."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#000000=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN = class=3D382305320-12102005><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3>A<SPAN class=3D382305320-12102005>nd = different gm's=20 want different things. I've played under gm's who expect you to = carefully plan=20 each encounter with great care, and who punish you for any = reckless/careless=20 play, whereas other GM's I've played under prefer and encourage a much=20 faster/looser game with heroic/reckless actions rewarded, and=20 meticulous planning being discouraged and even  punished = as being "too=20 cautious" and taking too much time. Players have different styles and so = do=20 GM's, and its really the players that need to adapt. The risk is that a = player=20 used to the "heroic/loose" stlye cops a PD from a "tighter" GM because = they are=20 used to a different style. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3><SPAN class=3D382305320-12102005>For what = its worth my=20 own personal preference is somewhere in the middle but leaning towards = the=20 tighter stlye. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman"><FONT=20 color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D3><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT = size=3D3><SPAN=20 class=3D382305320-12102005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20 [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20 Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 12 October 2005 2:21 = p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Permanent=20 Death<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>On 10/12/05, <B = class=3Dgmail_sendername>Sally and=20 Brent Jackson</B> <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:salient@kc.net.nz">salient@kc.net.nz</A>> wrote: <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: = rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3Dq><BR>On a recent adventure = my=20 character refused to proceed down the path of the adventure = because the=20 next step was into a place from which there was no in-character = reason to=20 expect to survive...</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's the whole point = Stephen.  My character went in, despite the threat of PD, and = others=20 followed her.  The players/characters weren't scared enough of = PD to=20 risk their x years of roleplaying history.</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Sally, may I politely say that, speaking for myself at least, = you are=20 incorrect.<BR><BR>While although as a player I had some doubts that = the GM=20 would slay/entrap the entire party I was extremely nervous about it... = and had=20 nightmares on more than one occasion.<BR><BR>My character on the other = hand,=20 due to demonic dabblings in his past, had intellectual reservations = but no=20 such fears and that is why he went in.  If he had been as fearful = as me,=20 Stephen and Phil would have had another keeping their PCs company.=20 :-)<BR><BR>It was unfortunate that two of the players were separated = from the=20 party for such a period. Having had to walk away once from an = adventure that=20 proved morally impossible for my character, and thus not getting to = play, I=20 can sympathise.<BR></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: = rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> =20 My character did die on the way back, but the GM wimped out of = making it a=20 PD.  The GM lost this opportunity to teach the players to fear=20 PD.</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Odd situation.  Given the GM described weird world you = chose=20 actions (thoughts, actually) that led to death. The GM chose not to = make it=20 unrecoverable. I'm sure you both had your reasons.<BR><BR>Maybe I'm = unusual in=20 this -- but I've always gone into any risky undertaking in DQ = expecting that I=20 may loose my character. I'm amazed (and somewhat appalled) that others = would=20 show a cavalier attitude to this.<BR><BR>As a GM I've caused three = permanent=20 character deaths over the years, and I still have doubts over two of=20 them.  The problem being that as GM you have indefinite, if not = infinite,=20 powers and can easily slay the entire party despite all of their = abilities if=20 you should so wish. It all becomes a matter of what seems reasonable, = (and=20 what fits with the nature and mood of the adventure).<BR></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: = rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I=20 think William was addressing the culture of GMing in this campaign, = which=20 has evolved to this style of fearing to give out  = PD.</BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Well of course it has -- I cannot think how it could not, = give the=20 nature of the player group many of whom are 'older' (if not mature) = :-), and=20 play with their friends of many years as a social activity, or who GM = for fun,=20 not as a competitive sport with a running bodycount = total.<BR><BR>Different=20 people want different things out of DQ -- it's taken me a while to get = that=20 through my skull.  There are people who want to play uber-level = games,=20 and (now) I think that if they want to do that, and it can be = accommodated=20 without breaking the rest of the campaign then so be it.<BR><BR>By the = same=20 token, and to borrow an on-line gaming term, if others want to play DQ = Hardcore then fine, but they shouldn't expect everyone to consider = this=20 desirable as either a Player or as a GM.<BR><BR>Kind=20 Regards,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF76.4AE2AF58-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Removing items
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:24:41 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C5CFE8.B611CF70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin said: > What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down? I am less keen on "heads down" as players already talk themselves out of most things - and end up doing little or less. On a bit of a different note: Items are the evils of Saving Throws: I think we should introduce a system for removing items from the game. No you don't have to lose all your items every time you fail a landing roll, but some form of "commonly acceptable" consequences would be nice to see. I would like to see it in common use and across all GMs so no one GM is seen as being mean or hard on any group of players. I think this is needed as item build up as high in DQ because of the length of the game (not campaign, that's something different). I would also like to see more GMs give out items with a use by date, when it's appropriate. I.e.; This potion is good until the summer equinox of 807. A general system for this for removing items from the game would be an improvement. Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C5CFE8.B611CF70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"City" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Street" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"country-region" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"address" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Martin = said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'>> What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads = down?</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am less keen on “heads = down” as players already talk themselves out of most things – and end up = doing little or less.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On a bit of a different = note:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Items are the evils of Saving = Throws:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think we should introduce a = system for removing items from the game. No you don’t have to lose all your = items every time you fail a landing roll, but some form of “commonly = acceptable” consequences would be nice to see. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would like to see it in common = use and across all GMs so no one GM is seen as being mean or hard on any group of = players. I think this is needed as item build up as high in DQ because of the = length of the game (not campaign, that’s something = different).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would also like to see more GMs = give out items with a use by date, when it’s = appropriate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I.e.; This potion is good until the = summer equinox of 807.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A general system for this for = removing items from the game would be an = improvement.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development = Manager</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about = time</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone = <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966 1656         PO Box = 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448 = 1051           <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New = Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 = 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz</span></font>= <font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Free = 0800 55 33 66</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01C5CFE8.B611CF70-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Removing items
From	Andrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:48:29 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF7F.10689616 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Another way of removing items is to apply rules such as you can't have more stored magics (potioned spells + invested charges) than your MA (or 30, whatever). This would include the "cast 3 lightning bolts a day" items and skinchanges as well.=20 Too many people carry around a huge range of bought magics which stop the rest of the party from casting their hard-earnt spells. =20 Again, on uber-high games, this may not be a problem, but in low, medium and high-ish games, its silly. =20 Or, we do away with "magic shops" like slippery rock, the investment ritual, and other causes, which would be more disruptive. =20 Andrew -----Original Message----- =20 From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Jonathan Bean Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:25 a.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Removing items =09 =09 Martin said: > What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down? I am less keen on "heads down" as players already talk themselves out of most things - and end up doing little or less. =20 On a bit of a different note: =20 Items are the evils of Saving Throws: =20 I think we should introduce a system for removing items from the game. No you don't have to lose all your items every time you fail a landing roll, but some form of "commonly acceptable" consequences would be nice to see.=20 I would like to see it in common use and across all GMs so no one GM is seen as being mean or hard on any group of players. I think this is needed as item build up as high in DQ because of the length of the game (not campaign, that's something different). =20 I would also like to see more GMs give out items with a use by date, when it's appropriate. I.e.; This potion is good until the summer equinox of 807. =20 A general system for this for removing items from the game would be an improvement. =20 Jonathan Bean =20 Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF7F.10689616 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>= <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=3DGENERATOR><o:SmartTagType = name=3D"PlaceType"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"PlaceName"=20 namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagT= ype><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"City" = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:Smar= tTagType><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"Street" = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags"></o:Smart= TagType><o:SmartTagType=20 name=3D"country-region" = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTa= gType=20 name=3D"place" = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTa= gType=20 name=3D"address" = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20 downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:Smar= tTagType><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>st1\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE>@page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt = 72.0pt 90.0pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0cm; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm; FONT-FAMILY: = "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle20 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005>Another way of removing items is to apply = rules such as=20 you can't have more stored magics (potioned spells + invested = charges) than=20 your MA (or 30, whatever). This would include the "cast 3 lightning = bolts a day"=20 items and skinchanges as well. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D545144422-12102005>Too=20 many people carry around a huge range of bought magics which stop the = rest of=20 the party from casting their hard-earnt spells.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D545144422-12102005>Again,=20 on uber-high games, this may not be a problem, but in low, medium and = high-ish=20 games, its silly.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D545144422-12102005>Or, we=20 do away with "magic shops" like slippery rock, the investment ritual, = and other=20 causes, which would be more disruptive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005>Andrew</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr = align=3Dleft><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<SPAN=20 class=3D545144422-12102005><FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>  </FONT></SPAN><BR><B>From:</B> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20 [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Jonathan=20 Bean<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 13 October 2005 11:25 = a.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq] Removing = items<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Martin=20 said:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> What do you want -- PC heroics, or them = keeping=20 their heads down?</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am less = keen on=20 “heads down” as players already talk themselves out of = most things – and end=20 up doing little or less.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">On a bit of = a=20 different note:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Items are = the evils=20 of Saving Throws:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think we = should=20 introduce a system for removing items from the game. No you = don’t have to lose=20 all your items every time you fail a landing roll, but some form of = “commonly=20 acceptable” consequences would be nice to see. = <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would = like to see=20 it in common use and across all GMs so no one GM is seen as being mean = or hard=20 on any group of players. I think this is needed as item build up as = high in DQ=20 because of the length of the game (not campaign, that’s = something=20 different).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would = also like to=20 see more GMs give out items with a use by date, when it’s=20 appropriate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I.e.; This = potion is=20 good until the summer equinox of 807.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A general = system for=20 this for removing items from the game would be an=20 improvement.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jonathan=20 Bean</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy = size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: = navy"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Business = Development=20 Manager</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">TME - Its = all about=20 time</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Phone=20 <st1:Street=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on"><st1:address=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on">966 1656         = PO Box=20 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType=20 w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></SPAN></FONT><FONT = color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Fax = 448=20 1051           = <st1:place=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on"><st1:City=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, <st1:country-region=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: = url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20 w:st=3D"on">New = Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20 color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Mob = 021 173=20 = 4060       www.tme.co.nz</SPAN></FONT>= <FONT=20 color=3Dnavy><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy = size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Free 0800 55=20 33 66</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20 style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM= L> =00 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF7F.10689616-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	William Dymock
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:18:02 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C5CFF0.287B5840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colour me equally puzzled. What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic items explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down on the number of insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend to NPCs too). Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all their gear gets split amongst the party? :-) (Should lead to guild harmony) Or is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered? Or charge extravagantly? :-) [William Dymock] It's called ransoming. If you die the victors may (sensibly) decide to let you go in exchange for a promise to not bother them for a while and x amount of loot which may or may not be on you. It allows the PC to live to fight another day without invoking any cheese. The enemy get some loot out of winning and won't have a rescue squad breathing down their necks. OK, silliness aside, I just don't see the problem. Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a different group, but my experience both as a player and GM is that character death is not treated flippantly -- except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to minimize risk and actively avoid death. My own main character (played on and off for 20 years) has died exactly once; when a GM recently killed the entire party at the hands... err... fins of a trout, and then ressurected them all with no consequences. (I would argue that a GM using party death as a transport mechanism risks cheapening things -- but it wasn't the players' doing). [William Dymock] It's not that at all. Why do PCs have absurd numbers of items? Because niether the item or PC goes away. Why is there a constant talk on topping out or 'I'ld like a new ability to spend ep on. Because there is little chance of a PC dieing permanently. If the chance was there then the pressure would lessen a little. I would also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk (which any of the suggested changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in past to GMs claiming that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared to heroically throw themselves in harms way. What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down? [William Dymock] Could someone explain what is intrinsically heroic about wading into a fight you know your going to come out of? GMs (me included) prefer fight solutions because they are easy to resolve. There are nice (mostly) neat rules on how to resolve combat in a fair manner. There are no such rules for seduction, fast-talking, bribing, frightening or convincing the enemy to just not fight today. That's harder to call without some nice handy numbers. So we avoid it. We try to pressure PCs into choosing combat solutions because it's less of a pain and won't seem as arbitary. A[William Dymock] nd what is basically wrong with the 'cunning plan' that wins the PCs the day without risk of mayhem and possiable death. Combat should be a dangerous, high risk affair. Bluff and bluster are almost unheard of DQ. Someone threatens the PCs and they get attacked, not because the PCs are heroic but because slicing up your opponents is less tricky than talking your way out in the game. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 12/10/2005 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C5CFF0.287B5840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>Colour me = equally=20 puzzled.  What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic = items=20 explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down on the = number of=20 insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend = to NPCs=20 too).  Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all = their=20 gear gets split amongst the party? :-)  (Should lead to guild = harmony) Or=20 is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered?  Or = charge=20 extravagantly? :-)<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[William Dymock] </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN=20 class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>It's called=20 ransoming. If you die the victors may (sensibly) decide to let you go = in=20 exchange for a promise to not bother them for a while and x amount of = loot=20 which may or may not be on you. It allows the PC to live to fight = another=20 day without invoking any cheese. The enemy get some loot out of = winning=20 and won't have a rescue squad breathing down their=20 necks. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN=20 class=3D398395522-12102005> </SPAN><BR>OK, silliness aside, I = just don't=20 see the problem.<BR><BR>Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a = different=20 group, but my experience both as a player and GM is that character = death is=20 not treated flippantly -- except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to = minimize=20 risk and actively avoid death. My own main character (played on and = off for 20=20 years) has died exactly once; when a GM recently killed the entire = party at=20 the hands... err... fins of a trout, and then ressurected them all = with no=20 consequences. (I would argue that a GM using party death as a = transport=20 mechanism risks cheapening things -- but it wasn't the players'=20 doing).<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>[William Dymock] </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN=20 class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>It's not that=20 at all. Why do PCs have absurd numbers of items? = Because niether the=20 item or PC goes away.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN = class=3D398395522-12102005> <FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Why is there a constant talk on = topping out or=20 'I'ld like a new ability to spend ep on. Because there is little = chance of a=20 PC dieing permanently. If the chance was there then the pressure would = lessen=20 a little.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN=20 class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT><BR>I would=20 also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk (which any of the = suggested=20 changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in past to GMs = claiming=20 that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared to heroically throw=20 themselves in harms way.<BR><BR>What do you want -- PC heroics, or = them=20 keeping their heads down?<BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>[William Dymock] Could someone explain what is = intrinsically=20 heroic about wading into a fight you know your going to come = out of?=20 GMs (me included) prefer fight solutions because they are easy to = resolve. There are nice (mostly) neat rules on how to resolve combat = in a fair=20 manner. There are no such rules for seduction, fast-talking, bribing,=20 frightening or convincing the enemy to just not fight today. That's = harder to=20 call without some nice handy numbers. So we avoid it. We try to = pressure PCs=20 into choosing combat solutions because it's less of a pain and won't = seem as=20 arbitary.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005></SPAN> <DIV><SPAN class=3D398395522-12102005></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2>A<SPAN = class=3D398395522-12102005>[William=20 Dymock] nd what is basically wrong with the 'cunning plan' that = wins the=20 PCs the day without risk of mayhem and possiable death. Combat = should be=20 a dangerous, high risk affair. Bluff and bluster are almost unheard of = DQ.=20 Someone threatens the PCs and they get attacked, not because the PCs = are=20 heroic but because slicing up your opponents is less tricky than = talking your=20 way out in the game.=20 </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C5CFF0.287B5840-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:46:26 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C5CFF4.2027B450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Martin Dickson=20 Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a different group, but my = experience both as a player and GM is that character death is not = treated flippantly -- except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to = minimize risk and actively avoid death. My own main character (played on = and off for 20 years) has died exactly once; when a GM recently killed = the entire party at the hands... err... fins of a trout, and then = ressurected them all with no consequences. (I would argue that a GM = using party death as a transport mechanism risks cheapening things -- = but it wasn't the players' doing). I too wonder at who is being so flippant, or if they really are being = so, is it a case of false bravardo. I lost a DQ character way back in 97, it happens, Im as careful with my = characters as I can be but at some point you have to say this PC is an = adventurer and take that leap of faith and trust that the GM has been = fair in their advertised level, and there is a good chance that it won't = be a PD.=20 From the characters the perception it still might be do or die time and = so they may choose to decline to try, thats fine thats role playing. = Some players like to charge in be the hero, death or glory and if they = loose the character never mind start another one, and others like myself = like to work on one one story for many years. I lost a long term live role playing character last year, it depressed = me for months, its like losing a pet, and something Id rather avoid.=20 Punishing Players for the having less attachment to their chacters than = I do is not fair GMing, incorraging them to play with another GM, = another group in future is. I know of other GMs who have used the kill the whole party as a game = mechanic, I personally don't like it but.... I would also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk (which any of = the suggested changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in = past to GMs claiming that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared = to heroically throw themselves in harms way. What do you want -- PC heroics, or them keeping their heads down? What I want them to do is think, to look for the out or the twist, to do = everything in their power to load the dice in their favour. Not to start = trouble just for the sake of it, or burn down the Inn because its there! To look for the warning signs in an adventure ( particularly high plus = adventures) that say this is it, the time to risk it all, and then make = their choice. Be it to step back and walk away, or to put their fate in = the hands of the gods and have faith that they will be rewarded, be it = in this life or the next. Characters should PD, but not to make everyone else fear death or as way = to remove items etc from the game but as the Players choice (acceptance = of the risk), as means to end the PCs story. To incorage more players to choose this option and as an alternate to = the "Rebirth" option for PD, how about a EP award for the players new = character based on the old ones number of adventures played. Helen ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C5CFF4.2027B450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D""> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: = Martin=20 Dickson <BR>Perhaps William is playing with / GMing a different group, = but my=20 experience both as a player and GM is that character death is not = treated=20 flippantly -- except perhaps by certain GMs. PCs work to minimize risk = and=20 actively avoid death. My own main character (played on and off for 20 = years) has=20 died exactly once; when a GM recently killed the entire party at the = hands...=20 err... fins of a trout, and then ressurected them all with no = consequences. (I=20 would argue that a GM using party death as a transport mechanism risks=20 cheapening things -- but it wasn't the players' doing).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I too wonder at = who is being so=20 flippant, or if they really are being so, is it a case of false=20 bravardo.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I lost a DQ character = way back in 97,=20 it happens, Im as careful with my characters as I can be but at some = point you=20 have to say this PC is an adventurer and take that leap of faith and = trust that=20 the GM has been fair in their advertised level, and there is a good = chance that=20 it won't be a PD. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>From the characters the = perception it=20 still might be do or die time and so they may choose to  decline to = try,=20 thats fine thats role playing. Some players like to charge in be the = hero, death=20 or glory and if they loose the character never mind start another one, = and=20 others like myself like to work on one one story for many = years.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I lost a long term live = role playing=20 character last year, it depressed me for months, its like losing a pet, = and=20 something Id rather avoid. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Punishing Players for = the having less=20 attachment to their chacters than I do is not fair GMing, incorraging = them to=20 play with another GM, another group in future is.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I know of other = GMs who have=20 used the kill the whole party as a game mechanic, I personally don't = like it=20 but....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>I would also like to note that PCs actively avoiding risk = (which any of=20 the suggested changes around PD will certainly increase) has lead in = past to GMs=20 claiming that PCs are cowardly and should be more prepared to heroically = throw=20 themselves in harms way.<BR><BR>What do you want -- PC heroics, or them = keeping=20 their heads down?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>What I want them to do is think, to look for = the out or=20 the twist, to do everything in their power to load the dice in their = favour.=20 </FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Not to start trouble just for the sake of = it, or burn=20 down the Inn because its there!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>To look for the warning signs in an adventure = (=20 particularly high plus adventures) that say this is it, the time to risk = it all,=20 and then make their choice. Be it to step back and walk away, = or to=20 put their  fate in the hands of the gods and have faith that they = will be=20 rewarded, be it in this life or the next.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Characters should PD, but not to make = everyone else=20 fear death or as way to remove items etc from the game but as the = Players choice=20 (acceptance of the risk), as means to end the PCs = story.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>To incorage more players to choose this = option and=20 as an alternate to the "Rebirth" option for PD, how about a EP award for = the=20 players new character based on the old ones number of adventures=20 played.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Helen</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0105_01C5CFF4.2027B450-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:50:06 +1300 (NZDT)
NPC Intimidation is rarely successful because the PCs are full of self-confidence, and generally they can check if you're bluffing. A couple of DAs on the bad guy, his armour, weapons, and rabid poodle and you know whether he can back up his claim or not. PC Intimidation, bluffing, and bravado are usually pointless because the bad guys almost always call your bluff and you end up fighting. Probably this is for exactly the reason you raised - combat is resolved under the rules, which is easier than the GM/role-playing call required to resolve intimidation. And as GM you spent an hour putting together the stats on the bad guys ready for combat, damned if all that time is going to be wasted. :-) The cunning plan is rarely tried because based on prior experience it is less likely to work than charging in the front door. Pavlovian responses through and through (drool, woof...). We (GMs) can change our (player) behaviour by punishing those who walk through the front door with death, item loss, or PD. Or we can change it by letting role-playing and a cunning plan work more often. Of course the other reason why the cunning plan is often not applied is that the combat specialists like to vote with their feet and swords. While the clever characters are coming up with a plan the grunts (spoiling for a fight) just charge. William Dymock said: > A[William Dymock] nd what is basically wrong with the 'cunning plan' that > wins the PCs the day without risk of mayhem and possiable death. Combat should be a dangerous, > high risk affair. Bluff and bluster are almost unheard of DQ. Someone threatens the PCs and they > get attacked, not because the PCs are heroic but because slicing up your opponents is less > tricky than talking your way out in the game. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:01:47 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF89.4DCA4D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: William Dymock [mailto:dworkin@ihug.co.nz] Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:18 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Permanent Death [Martin] Colour me equally puzzled. What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic items explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down on the number of insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend to NPCs too). Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all their gear gets split amongst the party? :-) (Should lead to guild harmony) Or is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered? Or charge extravagantly? :-) [William Dymock] It's called ransoming. If you die the victors may (sensibly) decide to let you go in exchange for a promise to not bother them for a while and x amount of loot which may or may not be on you. It allows the PC to live to fight another day without invoking any cheese. The enemy get some loot out of winning and won't have a rescue squad breathing down their necks. As I said in the post Martin replied to, this aspect is dependent on who controls the fight scene afterwards, not who died. Therefore it isn't related to dying directly, which was the context that the original comment was made in. Ransoming is probably an under-used option, but the PCs and the opposition need to have a reasonable trust in the other side's moral's/culture (something William has handled especially well in my experience BTW). Cheers Errol ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF89.4DCA4D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> William Dymock [mailto:dworkin@ihug.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 13 October 2005 12:18<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Permanent Death<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> [Martin] </FONT></SPAN>Colour me equally puzzled.  What's the idea; that when one dies all of the magic items explode in a fireworks display? (Although that would cut down on the number of insane items being handed out since the rule would presumably extend to NPCs too).  Or perhaps that the dead have no property rights and all their gear gets split amongst the party? :-)  (Should lead to guild harmony) Or is the idea that all Healers are terribly light fingered?  Or charge extravagantly? :-)<BR><BR><SPAN class=398395522-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>[William Dymock] </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=398395522-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It's called ransoming. If you die the victors may (sensibly) decide to let you go in exchange for a promise to not bother them for a while and x amount of loot which may or may not be on you. It allows the PC to live to fight another day without invoking any cheese. The enemy get some loot out of winning and won't have a rescue squad breathing down their necks. </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=398395522-12102005></SPAN> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><BR><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As I said in the post Martin replied to, this aspect is dependent on who controls the fight scene afterwards, not who died. Therefore it isn't related to dying directly, which was the context that the original comment was made in.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Ransoming is probably an under-used option, but the PCs and the opposition need to have a reasonable trust in the other side's moral's/culture (something William has handled especially well in my experience BTW).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=547252823-12102005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CF89.4DCA4D20-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:10:59 +1300
> To incorage more players to choose this option and as an alternate to the > "Rebirth" option for PD, how about a EP award for the players new character > based on the old ones number of adventures played. This only works if you see the game as a race to the top or a mountain to be climbed. For those who simply enjoy the character/characterisation EP is pretty meaningless. Personally I would prefer to not recieve any additional EP as you miss out on the formative adventures where you cannot do much. With my current low character, I went out with a group that was medium and used some GMing EP to bost him up a bit and I feel like I missed out on something. Of course for others who prefer to skip the clumsy stage and go straight to marginally competant it is a great idea, but not everyone runs the EP race :-) Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:24:17 +1300
------=_Part_9123_2054241.1129163057583 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/13/05, William Dymock <dworkin@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > > [William Dymock] > It's called ransoming. If you die the victors... > > Fair enough; as Errol said then, it depends on who holds the battlefield. [William Dymock] > It's not that at all. Why do PCs have absurd numbers of items? > > Again, our experience seems to vary, as does the amount of non-perishable loot garnered. As a player with a long term character I have a few smaller, interesting items, and just a couple of better ones. I'm continually amazed (and GM hat on, worried) by the vast treasure troves that some characters seem to possess. Because niether the item or PC goes away. Why is there a constant talk on > topping out or 'I'ld like a new ability to spend ep on. Because there is > little chance of a PC dieing permanently. If the chance was there then th= e > pressure would lessen a little. > > Uh no; the pressure would simply increase for items or abilities that prevented PD. :-) So, seriously, we have a game system that was (sensibly) designed to allow = a few years of play. (I mean, why over-engineer a system to design for 10+ year characters; they're unheard of). In our odd campaign however we have players who want to keep playing the same characters for 10+ years because they enjoy playing them. (If they didn't enjoy it, they'd quit, or get a ne= w PC). They find that the system isn't designed for 10+ year characters. And your suggested solution is to kill the characters? Jeez, but that's a "Procrustean bed" solution. Characters don't fit the gam= e system? Never mind, just chop their heads off. [William Dymock] GMs (me included) prefer fight solutions.... There are no > such rules for seduction, fast-talking, bribing, frightening or convincin= g > the enemy to just not fight today. ... We try to pressure PCs into choosi= ng > combat solutions because it's less of a pain and won't seem as arbitary. > > <confused> You want more cunning plans and less pointless fights. Ok, in complete agreement with you there. (I avoid GMing combats like the plague. = I don't find them much fun to run, and honestly I suck at them. I do enjoy cunning plans and fast-talking, bribery, manipulation of NPCs, etc, etc.) But you prefer fight solutions... and you want more danger of permanent death. Nope, still confused... A[William Dymock] nd what is basically wrong with the 'cunning plan' that > wins the PCs the day without risk of mayhem and possiable death. > > Nothing is wrong with the cunning plan... but apparently some GMs (includin= g you) prefer people to fight. <deeply confused> ------=_Part_9123_2054241.1129163057583 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 10/13/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">William Dymock</b> <<a href= =3D"mailto:dworkin@ihug.co.nz">dworkin@ihug.co.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span = class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"bor= der-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-= left: 1ex;"> <div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font> </div> <blockquote> <div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"q"></span><span><font colo= r=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">[William Dymock] </font></span= ></div> <div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari= al" size=3D"2">It's called=20 ransoming. If you die the victors...</font></span></div></blockquote></bl= ockquote><div><br> Fair enough; as Errol said then, it depends on who holds the battlefield.<b= r>  </div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px= solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><= blockquote><div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" fa= ce=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> [William Dymock] </font></span></div> <div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Ari= al" size=3D"2">It's not that=20 at all. Why do PCs have absurd numbers of items?</font></span></div>= </blockquote></blockquote><div><br> Again, our experience seems to vary, as does the amount of non-perishable loot garnered. As a player with a long term character I have a few smaller, interesting items, and just a couple of better ones. I'm continually amazed (and GM hat on, worried) by the vast treasure troves that some characters seem to possess.<br> </div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockq= uote><div align=3D"left" dir=3D"ltr"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"= Arial" size=3D"2"> Because niether the=20 item or PC goes away.</font></span><span> <font color=3D"#0000ff" fa= ce=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Why is there a constant talk on topping out or=20 'I'ld like a new ability to spend ep on. Because there is little chance o= f a=20 PC dieing permanently. If the chance was there then the pressure would le= ssen=20 a little.</font></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><div><br> Uh no; the pressure would simply increase for items or abilities that preve= nted PD. :-)<br> <br> So, seriously, we have a game system that was (sensibly) designed to allow a few years of play. (I mean, why over-engineer a system to design for 10+ year characters; they're unheard of).  In our odd campaign however we have players who want to keep playing the same characters for 10+ years because they enjoy playing them. (If they didn't enjoy it, they'd quit, or get a new PC).  They find that the system isn't designed for 10+ year characters.<br> <br> And your suggested solution is to kill the characters?<br> <br> Jeez, but that's a <font><font><font face=3D"Arial"><font face=3D"Arial">"P= rocrustean bed" solution. Characters don't fit the game system? Never mind,= just chop their heads off.<br> </font></font></font></font></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty= le=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;= padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote><span class=3D"q"></span><div><span><font = color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> [William Dymock] GMs (me included) prefer fight solutions.... There are no = such rules for seduction, fast-talking, bribing,=20 frightening or convincing the enemy to just not fight today. ... We try t= o pressure PCs=20 into choosing combat solutions because it's less of a pain and won't seem= as=20 arbitary.</font></span></div></blockquote></blockquote><div><br> <confused> You want more cunning plans and less pointless fights. Ok, in complete agreement with you there. (I avoid GMing combats like the plague. I don't find them much fun to run, and honestly I suck at them. I do enjoy cunning plans and fast-talking, bribery, manipulation of NPCs, etc, etc.)<br> <br> But you prefer fight solutions... and you want more danger of permanent dea= th. Nope, still confused...<br> </div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid= rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockq= uote><div><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000ff"><font size=3D"2">A<s= pan>[William=20 Dymock] nd what is basically wrong with the 'cunning plan' that wins= the=20 PCs the day without risk of mayhem and possiable death.</span></font= ></font></font></div></blockquote></blockquote><div><br> Nothing is wrong with the cunning plan... but apparently some GMs (includin= g you) prefer people to fight.<br> <br> <deeply confused><br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_9123_2054241.1129163057583-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death - Easy solution.
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:34:38 +1300
This debate can actually be solved happily easily and empirically. GM's that want to kill more....do so. Either players will start to avoid your games or people will flod onto them. If there are loads of complaints about a GM killing people then the grevance or character tribunals can deal with the fall out. I don't think we need to try this campaign wide and I doubt we will ever get consensus, so GM's can try it, there is nothing stopping you. We get trapped thinking that we all have to do things the same way and in many cases this in not a way to look at things.... William go forth and permenantly kill! For me I tried it, and it is not something I want to do to a player very often. If it happens it happens but I am not going to aim to do it more. I think most people play their characters well and most do not take death lightly, however it is a reaction to expect from characters who have died often and always come through and the history of a character needs to be taken into consideration when flippancy is seen. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] NPC and factions
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:36:29 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C5D00B.E1AA76F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do we need a system of factions so players can take relationships from one game to another with more ease? Here are some ideas as a starting point. Faction In the campaign characters have different relationships with organisations, groups, and individuals. Here is a simple system for keeping track of this between differently GM'ed games. Value Type Effect 100 Allied Will assist the person as best they can. 80 Warmly Will work with the person. 50 Friendly Will help at small cost. 0 Neutral Will help at no cost. (Players start here most of the time). -50 Unfriendly Will not help them. -80 Hostile Will work against them. -100 Enemy Will attack, if they can. We could enter costs for services like: Type Needed Effect Allied: Resurrections will cost you 20 points Warmly: A night at the inn for 7 people costs 5 points. Friendly: A bit of knowledge about a person 5 points Etc etc As a general guide GMs can give players a Faction Chit. To work out the value of the modifier on the chit please pick something appropriate from below. +20 Succeeded on a quest for them +20 recover some knowledge for them +15 Recovered an item +15 Defended them in court +10 Recovered an person +10 Defended them in person +05 Took on a job and only just succeeded. + with one group will automatically minus with adversary group. - with one group will automatically give you plus 50% with adversary group. -05 Took on a job and failed -10 Attached a member/person in group/origination -15 Killed a member/person in group/origination -50 Killed more than three member/person in group/origination So a +10 with Sanctuary Thieves Guild will give you -05 with the Lord of Sanctuary. For example: The Player has 110 pts with "The Kings Mages", from playing in Martins game. Comes on a Jono game and says I am an ally with them I can get Sid and Joe (dead fellow adventurer) resurrected. He then lowers his faction by 20 pits to 90 pts from 110 pts. He is only now Warmly with them as he's got 90pts so cant buy the second resurrection for another 20 pts without doing something or promising to do something on the list below to raise his faction. What do people think? Too much like a MMORPG? Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C5D00B.E1AA76F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"address" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Street" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"City" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"country-region" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:Arial; color:windowtext;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do we need a system of factions so players can = take relationships from one game to another with more = ease?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Here are some ideas as a starting = point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Faction<o:p></o:p></span></fo= nt></b></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>In the campaign characters have different relationships with organisations, groups, and = individuals.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Here is a simple system for keeping track of = this between differently GM’ed games.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Value  Type           &nb= sp;    Effect<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>100      Allied           &= nbsp;   Will assist the person as best they can.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>80        Warmly            = Will work with the person.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>50        Friendly          &nbsp= ; Will help at small cost.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>0 =          Neutral           =   Will help at no = cost.           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;      (Players start here most of the time).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-50       Unfriendly         Will not help = them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-80       Hostile           =    Will work against them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-100     Enemy              Will = attack, if they can.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'>We could enter costs for = services like:<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Type  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Needed      &nbs= p;     Effect<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Allied:   Resurrections will cost you 20 = points<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Warmly:           A night at the = inn for 7 people costs 5 points.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Friendly:           A bit of = knowledge about a person 5 points<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Etc                   = etc<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>As a general guide GMs can give players a = Faction Chit. To work out the value of the modifier on the chit please pick = something appropriate from below.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+20      Succeeded on a = quest for them<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+20      recover some = knowledge for them<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+15      Recovered = an item<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+15      Defended them in = court<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+10      Recovered = an person<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+10      Defended them in = person<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+05      Took on a job = and only just succeeded.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>+ with one group will automatically minus = with adversary group.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>- with one group will automatically give you = plus 50% with adversary group.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-05       Took on a = job and failed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-10       Attached a member/person in group/origination<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-15       Killed a member/person in group/origination<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-50       Killed = more than three member/person in group/origination<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>So a +10 with Sanctuary Thieves Guild will = give you -05 with the Lord of Sanctuary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>For example:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The Player has 110 pts with “The Kings Mages”, from playing in Martins = game. Comes on a Jono game and says I am an ally with them I can get Sid and Joe = (dead fellow adventurer) resurrected.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>He then lowers his faction by 20 pits to 90 pts from 110 pts. He is only now Warmly = with them as he’s got 90pts so cant buy the second resurrection for another = 20 pts without doing something or promising to do something on the list below = to raise his faction.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What do people = think?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Too much like a = MMORPG?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><span = lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Business Development = Manager</span></font><span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>TME - Its all about time</span></font><span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Phone <st1:Street = w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966 1656         PO = Box 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place = w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType = w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Fax 448 1051           = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><span = lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz</span></font>= <span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Free 0800 55 33 = 66</span></font><span lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01C5D00B.E1AA76F0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Harn and our DQ Game.
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:37:17 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C5D00B.FE35BF00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI: Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 _____ From: Tom [mailto:tom@columbiagames.com] Sent: 13 October 2005 11:55 a.m. To: jonathan@tme.co.nz Cc: Grant Dalgliesh Subject: Re: Harn and our DQ Game. Hello: Not a problem. Just be sure to list proper credit and copyrights as follows: Copyright N. Robin Crossby & Columbia Games Inc., 1982-2005. HARN, LYTHIA, & KELESTIA are trademarks of Columbia Games, Inc. That's all you need do . Good Luck Tom Dalgliesh On Oct 11, 2005, at 2:20 PM, Jonathan Bean wrote: Hi Tom and Grant, I have always been a fan of Harn and really like your products. I am one of around 25 GMs that are involved in a multi-GM / multi-player game that was once based on Dragon Quest version 2 (1982). GMs run a game for 12 weeks, then stop. All characters in the campaign are members of a guild of adventurers within the game. The campaign has around 125 players in it and it has a real world meeting once every 3 months. We currently have permission to use our version of Dragon Quest from TSR (now WotC or Hasbro) to use our game in house and our media-wiki and not for profit. Our DQ Wiki site: http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Main_Page An old pre-wiki database http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/pc/dqc_view.php Back in 1998 we decided to base the world of Alusia (our world we play on/with) on Lythia. We took your purchased books and modified parts of it to suit our game. etc So how can we gain permission to put the part of our campaign onto our media-wiki for members to use? I think this will lead to some of our members purchasing the regional modules. My aim in talking to you is to find out how we can do this properly/correctly. Kind regards, Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C5D00B.FE35BF00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"address" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Street" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalampft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"City" = downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iamas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"country-region" downloadurl=3D"http://www.5iantlavalamp.com/"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- / Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} tt {font-family:"Courier New";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>FYI: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development = Manager</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about = time</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone = <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966 1656         PO Box = 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448 1051           = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font = color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 = 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz</span></font>= <font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier = New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Free = 0800 55 33 66</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-align:center'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 = face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa= n></font></b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Tom [mailto:<st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">tom@columbiagames.com</st1:PersonName>] <br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 13 October 2005 = 11:55 a.m.<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">jonathan@tme.co.nz</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName = w:st=3D"on">Grant Dalgliesh</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Harn and our = DQ Game.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom: 12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Hello:<br> <br> Not a problem. Just be sure to list proper credit and copyrights as = follows:<br> <br> Copyright N. Robin Crossby & Columbia Games Inc., 1982-2005. <br> HARN, LYTHIA, & KELESTIA are trademarks of Columbia Games, Inc. <br> <br> That's all you need do .<br> <br> Good Luck<br> <br> Tom Dalgliesh<br> <br> <br> On Oct 11, 2005, at 2:20 PM, Jonathan Bean = wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br> <?fontfamily><?param Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Hi Tom and Grant,<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>I have always been a fan of Harn and really like your products.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>I am one of around 25 GMs that are involved in a multi-GM / multi-player game = that was once based on Dragon Quest version 2 (1982).<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>GMs run a game for 12 weeks, then stop.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>All characters in the campaign are members of a guild of adventurers within = the game.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>The campaign has around 125 players in it and it has a real world meeting = once every 3 months.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>We currently have permission to use our version of Dragon Quest from TSR (now WotC or Hasbro) to use our game in house and our media-wiki and not for = profit.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Our DQ Wiki site:          = <?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param = 0000,0000,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger>http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.= php/Main_Page<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>An old pre-wiki database <?/x-tad-bigger><?color><?param = 0000,0000,FFFF><?x-tad-bigger>http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/pc/dqc_view.p= hp<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/color><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Back in 1998 we decided to base the world of Alusia (our world we play on/with) = on Lythia.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>We took your purchased books and modified parts of it to suit our game… = etc<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>So how can we gain permission to put the part of our campaign onto our = media-wiki for members to use?<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>I think this will lead to some of our members purchasing the regional = modules.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>My aim in talking to you is to find out how we can do this = properly/correctly.<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Kind regards,<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger> <br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Jonathan Bean<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param Times New = Roman><?bigger><?bigger> <br> <?/bigger><?/bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>Business Development Manager<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily><?fontfamily><?param = Arial><?x-tad-bigger>TME - Its all about time<br> <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></span></font><tt><?fontfamily><?param = Courier New><?x-tad-bigger><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Phone = <st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966 1656         PO Box = 35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> = <st1:PlaceType = w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><?/x-tad-bigger>= <?/fontfamily></tt><br> <tt><?fontfamily><?param Courier New><?x-tad-bigger><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Fax 448 1051           = <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, = <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New = Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><?/x-tad-bigger><?/= fontfamily></tt><br> <tt><?fontfamily><?param Courier New><?x-tad-bigger><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz</span></font>= <?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></tt><br> <tt><?fontfamily><?param Courier New><?x-tad-bigger><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Free 0800 55 33 = 66</span></font><?/x-tad-bigger><?/fontfamily></tt><br> <?fontfamily><?param Times New = Roman><?bigger><?bigger> <o:p></o:p></p> <?/bigger><?/bigger><?/fontfamily></div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0065_01C5D00B.FE35BF00-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:03:03 +1300 (NZDT)
Fine in concept, just a couple of issues. 1. Automatically affecting opposing factions. Faction should only be adjusted with those who know and care what you have done. If I discretely help the Thieves then I shouldn't automatically take a hit with the guards unless I happen to be caught with the thieves. If I rescue a thief from a public hanging while displaying my coat-of-arms then hell yes there should be consequences with the guards and potentially beyond. 2. Book keeping. How many bits of paper do we try to keep track of already? How many more is this going to add? Extra write-ups for GMs to provide when many of them struggle with timely Item and XP writeups already. Extra character information for the GMs to read and keep in mind. Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the benefit we would get from this? Cheers, Stephen. Jonathan Bean said: > Do we need a system of factions so players can take relationships from one game to another with > more ease? > > Here are some ideas as a starting point. ...<snip> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:20:59 +1300
> To incorage more players to choose this option and as an alternate to the > "Rebirth" option for PD, how about a EP award for the players new character > based on the old ones number of adventures played. This only works if you see the game as a race to the top or a mountain to be climbed. For those who simply enjoy the character/characterisation EP is pretty meaningless. Personally I would prefer to not recieve any additional EP as you miss out on the formative adventures where you cannot do much. With my current low character, I went out with a group that was medium and used some GMing EP to bost him up a bit and I feel like I missed out on something. Of course for others who prefer to skip the clumsy stage and go straight to marginally competant it is a great idea, but not everyone runs the EP race :-) Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:48:45 +1300
I think we have one page with four cells. Character name at the top of the page. Page has a couple of columns to do the following; Modifier, Name of faction, new total, GM sign Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 > -----Original Message----- > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Stephen Martin > Sent: 13 October 2005 4:03 p.m. > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions > > Fine in concept, just a couple of issues. > > 1. Automatically affecting opposing factions. Faction should only be > adjusted with those who know > and care what you have done. If I discretely help the Thieves then I > shouldn't automatically take > a hit with the guards unless I happen to be caught with the thieves. If I > rescue a thief from a > public hanging while displaying my coat-of-arms then hell yes there should > be consequences with > the guards and potentially beyond. > > 2. Book keeping. How many bits of paper do we try to keep track of > already? How many more is > this going to add? Extra write-ups for GMs to provide when many of them > struggle with timely Item > and XP writeups already. Extra character information for the GMs to read > and keep in mind. > Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the benefit we > would get from this? > > Cheers, Stephen. > > Jonathan Bean said: > > Do we need a system of factions so players can take relationships from > one game to another with > > more ease? > > > > Here are some ideas as a starting point. > ...<snip> > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	Jonathan Bean
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:50:41 +1300
Stephen said: > Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the benefit we > would get from this? Any extra work which is aimed at helping the character storyline is a good thing I think. Jonathan Bean Business Development Manager TME - Its all about time Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz Free 0800 55 33 66 > -----Original Message----- > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Stephen Martin > Sent: 13 October 2005 4:03 p.m. > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions > > Fine in concept, just a couple of issues. > > 1. Automatically affecting opposing factions. Faction should only be > adjusted with those who know > and care what you have done. If I discretely help the Thieves then I > shouldn't automatically take > a hit with the guards unless I happen to be caught with the thieves. If I > rescue a thief from a > public hanging while displaying my coat-of-arms then hell yes there should > be consequences with > the guards and potentially beyond. > > 2. Book keeping. How many bits of paper do we try to keep track of > already? How many more is > this going to add? Extra write-ups for GMs to provide when many of them > struggle with timely Item > and XP writeups already. Extra character information for the GMs to read > and keep in mind. > Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the benefit we > would get from this? > > Cheers, Stephen. > > Jonathan Bean said: > > Do we need a system of factions so players can take relationships from > one game to another with > > more ease? > > > > Here are some ideas as a starting point. > ...<snip> > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Permanent Death
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:03:42 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01CD_01C5D018.1088CB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Martins confused, I'm confused. For the last few days, I've watched GMs bemoan the power of characters, = their Items, their Spells, the lack of PD. The failure of Mage plate to = degrade, the lack of negotiated solutions to problems set in adventures, = the reluctance of players to be heroes, and the lack of respect for = death by pcs. The List goes on and for most of these issues Its not like they have = like just suddenly occured due to One loose GM or Power Gaming PC. It is either the result of our campains longevity, and or GMs giving out = several powerful items each adventure over many years. Failing to insure = players do proper book keeping, and even just plain killing and = resurecting Pcs too many times on an adventure, "By the time you have = died that many times on the adventure whats one more". The longevity we can do nothing about, the multiple deaths, (baring bad = luck) if you are killing players that many times either you have the = wrong Level PCs on the adventure, or they are just being silly and = deserve to stay dead for a bit if not PD. Even the Over the top Items, Talents, wishes etc are a rod we GMs and = conserned players have made for our own backs.=20 All these items etc where given out at some stage by some GM, as = treasure split or rewards, if they are so bad why didn't the other = players (in my experiance most games have at least one GM as a player) = say something at the time? If your over ruled by the GM and you feel = strongly about something as Mandos has just reminded us we have grevance = and character tribunrals. In fact Mandos's easy solution works for most of these problems if you = feel somthing is missing, or wrong with the way things are done, try to = do, or not do it as the case maybe yourself either as a GM or a Player. The power of one and all that. Helen ------=_NextPart_000_01CD_01C5D018.1088CB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martins confused, I'm = confused.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For the last few days, I've watched GMs = bemoan the=20 power of characters, their Items, their Spells, the lack of PD. The = failure of=20 Mage plate to degrade, the lack of negotiated solutions to problems set = in=20 adventures, the reluctance of players to be heroes, and the lack of = respect for=20 death by pcs.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The List goes on and for most of these = issues Its=20 not like they have like just suddenly occured due to One loose GM or = Power=20 Gaming PC.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is either the result of our campains = longevity,=20 and or GMs giving out several powerful items each adventure over = many=20 years. Failing to insure players do proper book keeping, and=20 even just plain killing and resurecting Pcs too many times on an = adventure,=20 "By the time you have died that many times on the adventure whats one=20 more".</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The longevity we can do nothing about, = the multiple=20 deaths, (baring bad luck) if you are killing players that many times = either you=20 have the wrong Level PCs on the adventure, or they are just being silly = and=20 deserve to stay dead for a bit if not PD.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Even the Over the top Items, Talents, = wishes etc=20 are a rod we GMs and conserned players have made for our own backs.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All these items etc where given out at = some stage=20 by some GM, as treasure split or rewards, if they are so bad why didn't = the=20 other players (in my experiance most games have at least one GM as a = player) say=20 something at the time? If your over ruled by the GM and you feel = strongly about=20 something a</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>s Mandos has just = reminded=20 us we have grevance and character tribunrals.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In fact Mandos's easy solution works = for most of=20 these problems if you feel somthing is missing, or wrong with the = way=20 things are done,  try to do, or not do it as the case maybe = yourself either=20 as a GM or a Player.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The power of one and all = that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_01CD_01C5D018.1088CB00-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:05:58 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CFAB.6A6469D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Bean [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:51 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions >=20 >=20 > Stephen said: > > Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the=20 > benefit we > > would get from this? >=20 > Any extra work which is aimed at helping the character=20 > storyline is a good > thing I think. >=20 > Jonathan Bean > =A0 !!!!!! small benefit for much work -> work isn't done, as people have limited amount of time they are prepared to spend on DQ -> a formal system that = is half utilised is worse than a informal or no system. much benefit for little work -> work gets done, all sweet. Cheers Errol ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CFAB.6A6469D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] NPC and factions</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: Jonathan Bean [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz">mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz</A>]</FONT>= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:51</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Stephen said:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > Does the amount of extra work and book = keeping justify the </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> benefit we</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > would get from this?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Any extra work which is aimed at helping the = character </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> storyline is a good</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> thing I think.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Jonathan Bean</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> =A0</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>!!!!!!</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>small benefit for much work -> work isn't done, as = people have limited amount of time they are prepared to spend on DQ = -> a formal system that is half utilised is worse than a informal or = no system.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>much benefit for little work -> work gets done, = all sweet.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CFAB.6A6469D0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	ian at dawn haven
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:15:29 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5D022.180407F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, but I think there will be good effect for little work. I have handed out and received favours. They are very good. A silver dragon, a titan and several lesser immortals all owe Isil Eth favours. This is good. Even better for her to owe some too. A summary table like Jono suggests is just an easy and logical next step. As a GM it is wonderful when a PC already has a hook into an area, and can push the party dynamic along. I treat it as a non-transferable item of some value. I am all for it, Ian _____ From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Errol Cavit Sent: 13 October 2005 17:06 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Bean [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz] > Sent: Thursday, 13 October 2005 16:51 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions > > > Stephen said: > > Does the amount of extra work and book keeping justify the > benefit we > > would get from this? > > Any extra work which is aimed at helping the character > storyline is a good > thing I think. > > Jonathan Bean > !!!!!! small benefit for much work -> work isn't done, as people have limited amount of time they are prepared to spend on DQ -> a formal system that is half utilised is worse than a informal or no system. much benefit for little work -> work gets done, all sweet. Cheers Errol ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5D022.180407F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <title>RE: [dq] NPC and factions</title> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} h3 {margin-top:12.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0cm; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:13.0pt; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.StyleHeading312pt, li.StyleHeading312pt, div.StyleHeading312pt {margin-top:12.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0cm; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ah, but I think there will be good = effect for little work.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have handed out and received = favours. They are very good. A silver dragon, a titan and several lesser immortals all = owe Isil Eth favours. This is good.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Even better for her to owe some = too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A summary table like Jono suggests = is just an easy and logical next step.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>As a GM it is wonderful when a PC = already has a hook into an area, and can push the party dynamic = along.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I treat it as a non-transferable = item of some value.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am all for = it,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ian<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm = 0cm 4.0pt'> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span = style=3D'font-weight: bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 13 October 2005 = 17:06<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] NPC and = factions</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> -----Original Message-----</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> From: Jonathan Bean = [<a href=3D"mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz">mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz</a>]</span><= /font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Sent: Thursday, 13 = October 2005 16:51</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> To: = dq@dq.sf.org.nz</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Subject: Re: [dq] = NPC and factions</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Stephen = said:</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > Does the = amount of extra work and book keeping justify the </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> benefit = we</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> > would get from = this?</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Any extra work = which is aimed at helping the character </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> storyline is a = good</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> thing I = think.</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> </span></font><br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> Jonathan = Bean</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>> =  </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>!!!!!!</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>small benefit for much work -> work isn't done, as people have limited = amount of time they are prepared to spend on DQ -> a formal system that is half utilised is worse than a informal or no = system.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>much benefit for little work -> work gets done, all sweet.</span></font> = <o:p></o:p></p> <p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span></font> <br> <font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Errol</span></font> = <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C5D022.180407F0-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] NPC and factions
From	Helen Saggers
Date	Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:57:32 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C5D030.59600600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [dq] NPC and factionsA number of characters have these kinds of = connections to people entities or organizations, its fine when you are = dealing with the same GM, or the GM gives you a separate write up from = your ep to show the next GM, but this doesn't always happen or its hard = to work out just what you should get, give allow for doing X. And Players are well known for going Ohh I have a..... and pulling out = some six year old write up.=20 Having some on line record of Favors owed and owing to NPCs that we can = use to both check as GMs what your PCs might have that screws with your = plans or to plan to use to your own purposes sounds like an Idea to me. Shared NPCs sounds good to me how many of few heads of the thieves guild = in x there can be in a session/ year etc. now depends on GM use and = communication. Helen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ian at dawn haven=20 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions Ah, but I think there will be good effect for little work. =20 I have handed out and received favours. They are very good. A silver = dragon, a titan and several lesser immortals all owe Isil Eth favours. = This is good. =20 Even better for her to owe some too. =20 A summary table like Jono suggests is just an easy and logical next = step. =20 As a GM it is wonderful when a PC already has a hook into an area, and = can push the party dynamic along. I treat it as a non-transferable item of some value. =20 I am all for it, =20 Ian =20 ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C5D030.59600600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [dq] NPC and = factions</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=3DGENERATOR><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE> <!-- /* Font Definitions / @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} / Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} h3 {margin-top:12.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0cm; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:13.0pt; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.StyleHeading312pt, li.StyleHeading312pt, div.StyleHeading312pt {margin-top:12.0pt; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:3.0pt; margin-left:0cm; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; font-weight:bold;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A number of characters have these kinds = of=20 connections to people entities or organizations, its fine when you are = dealing=20 with the same GM, or the GM gives you a separate write up from your ep = to show=20 the next GM, but this doesn't always happen or its hard to work out just = what=20 you should get, give allow for doing X.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And Players are well known for going = Ohh I=20 have a..... and pulling  out some six year old write up.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Having some </FONT><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>on line=20 record of Favors owed and owing to NPCs that we can use to both check as = GMs=20 what your PCs might have that screws with your plans or to = plan to use=20 to your own purposes sounds like an Idea to me.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Shared NPCs sounds good to me how many = of few heads=20 of the thieves guild in x there can be in a session/ year etc. now = depends on=20 GM  use and communication.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Ddawnhaven@xtra.co.nz = href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">ian at dawn=20 haven</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20 href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 13, = 2005 6:15=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] NPC and = factions</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ah, but I = think there=20 will be good effect for little work.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have = handed out and=20 received favours. They are very good. A silver dragon, a titan and = several=20 lesser immortals all owe Isil Eth favours. This is=20 good.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Even better = for her=20 to owe some too.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A summary = table like=20 Jono suggests is just an easy and logical next=20 step.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As a GM it = is=20 wonderful when a PC already has a hook into an area, and can push the = party=20 dynamic along.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I treat it = as a=20 non-transferable item of some value.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am all = for=20 it,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial">Ian<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: = Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV=20 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: blue = 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0cm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01C5D030.59600600-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --