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Martin said:
>GM: "You're lost in a swamp".
>Player: "Ah hah, but I have a 'Rescued by Ranger' card".
>GM: "You're lost in the swamp for a day and then a friendly ranger
mysteriously appears and offers to lead you to safety..."
>No thanks.
I don't see the system working like this at all. You are talking about the
players changing the story line by summoning a NPC because they have faction
- when they are lost.
I see it more like (not summoning a ranger) but IF I as a GM wanted to have
a ranger and it was then introduced into the game by me the GM - the
character could try to use their influence on the ranger to get them out.
I do not see a faction system of any type empowering a player to do a
"summon hero", but if a hero that knew of the character walked by (GM call)
so be it.
We as a group can remove all of these "problems of expectations" - which I
personally like and would use as a guide to the NPC reactions - by simple
removing the part where players are allowed to 'activity use there faction'
.
The GM at the start of the game receives a copy - one for each of the
characters on the game, and uses it as a history system of which groups like
the members of the party. Simple no more pulling out your ranger, of
actively using it to change the story line. My GM'ing style - I would be
happy if a character was able to TRY to use their influence with some NPC,
other than the normal options which are often - 'I hit them'.
I like it when characters are activly involved in shaping the story line of
the adventure and I see this system as a way to help this.
I also like the number feel to it as I hope players will act on the base
instinct of consumerisum and wish to get more points with a group - and seek
out, or go on adventuers with multipal GMs involving the same NPCs.
I see it as encouraging them to help create and maintain a visable (to GMs
on paper) simple history of a relationship with NPC groups.
Also I see this as a A4 sheet not 30 indervidual write-ups.
I as a GM want a simple number so I can easily see it, and understand it.
+100 to -100 is clearer to me than a scale of 20 words discribing warmth or
intensity of a relationship between the character and a orginisation.
I do agree with Martin that the value of the system would be greatly
improvied on standisation, across all games run in a multi-GM invironment
(Alusia not a single GM plan).
With this system I see no central area where all factions are recored
character would pick them up as they go as GMs see fit, as a single line
entry on the same A4 sheet.
Keeping it simple to use and as a guide assisting GMs and players is the
best way to look at it.
A player telling the GM I am allied and I have 120pts with the Town Guard I
insist the guard resurect Silverfoam, is unlikely to go down well.
However
The players saying lets try the town guards I have some friends their and
they may be able to help - is ok.
The GM still gets to make the call, either way and very very very few town
guards should be able to orginise a resurection IMO.
Jonathan Bean
Business Development Manager
TME - Its all about time
Phone 966 1656 PO Box 35902, Browns Bay
Fax 448 1051 Auckland, New Zealand
Mob 021 173 4060 www.tme.co.nz
Free 0800 55 33 66
_____
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: 19 October 2005 8:01 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] NPC and factions
More on the "numbers feel wrong to me" theme...
Even if the numbers are really a guideline (rather than an absolute
pricelist) I think they'll set a level of player expectation that I'd prefer
to avoid.
If for some good reason I'd rather that the "King's Guards" didn't arrange a
resurrectuion for their friend then it won't matter that a PC has +150
points with that group... but I'm not at all sure how fair that will appear
to the player... it looks like a price list.
It also suggests to me shades of a system used in the Torg RPG, a system I'd
prefer not to see in DQ:
GM: "You're lost in a swamp".
Player: "Ah hah, but I have a 'Rescued by Ranger' card".
GM: "You're lost in the swamp for a day and then a friendly ranger
mysteriously appears and offers to lead you to safety..."
No thanks.
Encourage the use of factions, (whether by that name or another), fer sure,
encourage the use of favours instead of, or as another kind of treasure,
definitely. Introduce the numeric side of this -- not my preference.
Cheers,
Martin
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Martin =
said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>>GM: "You're lost in a swamp".<br>
>Player: "Ah hah, but I have a 'Rescued by Ranger' =
card".<br>
>GM: "You're lost in the swamp for a day and then a friendly =
ranger
mysteriously appears and offers to lead you to safety..."<br>
<br>
>No thanks.<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><br>
I don’t see the system working like this at all. You are talking =
about
the players changing the story line by summoning a NPC because they have
faction – when they are lost.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I see it more like (not summoning a ranger) but IF I =
as a GM
wanted to have a ranger and it was then introduced into the game by me =
the GM –
the character could try to use their influence on the ranger to get them =
out.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I do not see a faction system of any type empowering =
a
player to do a “summon hero”, but if a hero that knew of the
character walked by (GM call) so be it…<font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We as a group can remove all of =
these “problems
of expectations” – which I personally like and would use as =
a guide
to the NPC reactions – by simple removing the part where players =
are
allowed to ‘activity use there faction’ =
.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The GM at the start of the game =
receives a
copy – one for each of the characters on the game, and uses it as =
a
history system of which groups like the members of the party. Simple no =
more
pulling out your ranger, of actively using it to change the story line. =
My GM’ing
style – I would be happy if a character was able to <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>TRY </span></b>to use their influence with =
some NPC,
other than the normal options which are often - ‘I hit =
them’.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I like it when characters are =
activly
involved in shaping the story line of the adventure and I see this =
system as a
way to help this.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I also like the number feel to it =
as I
hope players will act on the base instinct of consumerisum and wish to =
get more
points with a group – and seek out, or go on adventuers with =
multipal GMs
involving the same NPCs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I see it as encouraging them to =
help
create and maintain a visable (to GMs on paper) simple history of a
relationship with NPC groups.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also I see this as a A4 sheet not =
30
indervidual write-ups.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I as a GM want a simple number so I =
can
easily see it, and understand it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>+100 to -100 is clearer to me than =
a scale
of 20 words discribing warmth or intensity of a relationship between the
character and a orginisation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I do agree with Martin that the =
value of
the system would be greatly improvied on standisation, across all games =
run in
a multi-GM invironment (Alusia not a single GM =
plan).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>With this system I see no central =
area
where all factions are recored character would pick them up as they go =
as GMs
see fit, as a single line entry on the same A4 =
sheet.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Keeping it simple to use and as a =
guide
assisting GMs and players is the best way to look at =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A player telling the GM I am allied =
and I
have 120pts with the Town Guard I insist the guard resurect Silverfoam, =
is
unlikely to go down well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The players saying lets try the =
town
guards I have some friends their and they may be able to help – is =
ok.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The GM still gets to make the call, =
either
way and very very very few town guards should be able to orginise a =
resurection
IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development =
Manager</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about =
time</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone =
<st1:Street
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966
1656 PO Box =
35902</st1:address></st1:Street>,
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448
1051 =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City>, =
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New
Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 =
173
4060 www.tme.co.nz</span></font>=
<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Free =
0800 55 33
66</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Martin Dickson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 19 October 2005 =
8:01 p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] NPC and =
factions</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>More on the "numbers feel wrong to me" theme...<br>
<br>
Even if the numbers are really a guideline (rather than an absolute =
pricelist)
I think they'll set a level of player expectation that I'd prefer to =
avoid.<br>
<br>
If for some good reason I'd rather that the "King's Guards" =
didn't
arrange a resurrectuion for their friend then it won't matter that a PC =
has
+150 points with that group... but I'm not at all sure how fair that =
will
appear to the player... it looks like a price list.<br>
<br>
It also suggests to me shades of a system used in the Torg RPG, a system =
I'd
prefer not to see in DQ:<br>
<br>
GM: "You're lost in a swamp".<br>
Player: "Ah hah, but I have a 'Rescued by Ranger' card".<br>
GM: "You're lost in the swamp for a day and then a friendly ranger
mysteriously appears and offers to lead you to safety..."<br>
<br>
No thanks.<br>
<br>
Encourage the use of factions, (whether by that name or another), fer =
sure,
encourage the use of favours instead of, or as another kind of treasure,
definitely. Introduce the numeric side of this -- not my =
preference.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Martin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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