Subject[dq] OT:: RPers seeking like minded nutcase for flat
FromZane Mendoza
DateTue, 6 Dec 2005 03:11:31 -0800 (PST)
Hey all

Apologies for OT post but...

Michael Scott and myself are starting a new flat out
in Mt Albert this monday and in preference for a
flatmate we would like someone that is a Roleplayer,
hence sending this to the DQ groups.

Anyways anyone interested feel free to email me or
grab me or mike at the guild meeting, to find out the
particulars etc.

Zane

"...SOmetimes the slower people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you win the race..."


		
__________________________________________ 
Yahoo! DSL  Something to write home about. 
Just $16.99/mo. or less. 
dsl.yahoo.com


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SubjectRe: [dq] Photos
FromKeith Smith
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 00:21:11 +1300
>Talk about Rogue's Gallery!!
>
>While on the topic, is there some secret trick to adding images to 
>the Wiki. The front page says to can't, but some people have (using 
>a non-standard method, presumably)

You can't actually upload an image to the wiki itself, but you can 
link to one that has been stored elsewhere.  Jono has done that with 
several and that's how I added Phaeton's character picture and the 
Pasifikan maps etc.  Look in the edit window for those pages and that 
should explain how it was done.

Keith


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 08:33:56 +1300
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: mhyoung [mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:54
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise. 
> 
> 
> This is daft. Only in very rare circumstances should the 
> campaign committee,
> complaints tribunal or any other DQ body overrule an event or GM. 


One of those rare situations is where GMs contradict each other in
story-obvious ways. In those cases, a campaign committee is a better
starting point than an arm-wrestle.

This
> situation does not warrant that.  It has too much story 
> weight with too many
> characters to just be dismissed as having never happened
> 
> There is a Temple to Sier in Seagate and its been hiding there for
> approximately 8 years.Now that its presence has been 
> discovered, 

Has it, in game terms?
Has something else happened other than the map entry being noticed by some
players/GMs? I may have missed it.

Is an option for resolving the immediate issue be saying that the temple,
currently apparently closed, was never overtly used by anything more
offensive than a tolerated 'neutral'? Is anyone unhappy with the idea of
'neutrals' being tolerated on the edge of 'civilisation'?
Changing the Wiki/map entry seems the least-story-breaking approach.

It follows that the overtly 'neutral' location could only be sacked by a mob
on suspicion, in a way remarkably similar to 1) below if this is thought
better in some way.


its days
> are
> numbered.
> 
> One of the following should happen:
> 
> 1) William runs a game resolving the matter, after all he 
> stuck the temple
> there to the best of my knowledge and no doubt had some cunning plan
> revolving around it. He has already indicated that he would do this if
> approached by the rapid PoL hordes.
> 
> 2) The Duke closes the temple down now that it has been bought to his
> attention that this temple is in fact that of a Demon. He 
> does this for a
> number of valid political reasons. He has been deceived and 
> wants it to just
> quietly go away, he wishes to avoid an outbreak of hostilities between
> opposing factions within the SAG, the streets are crawling 
> with PoL forces
> in Seagate combating the Dark Circle, he doesn't want Cazala 
> invaded by one
> of its northern neighbours. I am sure there are other valid 
> reasons that he
> has reached this conclusion.
> 
> 
> Either way the worship of Sier is driven back underground 
> where it belongs.
> 
> 

Having a mix of socially approved, socially tolerated, and socially despised
religions (plus practical atheism) available seems to give a wide range of
role-playing options.

I'm mildly surprised that the campaign committee translated a desire for
polytheism being available for PCs (and a requirement that characters don't
kill each other on sight) into a requirement for open worship of members of
the 72 immediately outside the SAG. The stories of guild members being
pacted to demons can surely be treated as extreme rumours amongst a great
choice of fact, fiction and everything in-between? Was this option discussed
and discarded off-list?

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: mhyoung [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz">mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz</A>]</FONT>=

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:54</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; This is daft. Only in very rare circumstances =
should the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; campaign committee,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; complaints tribunal or any other DQ body =
overrule an event or GM. </FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>One of those rare situations is where GMs contradict =
each other in story-obvious ways. In those cases, a campaign committee =
is a better starting point than an arm-wrestle.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; situation does not warrant that.&nbsp; It has =
too much story </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; weight with too many</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; characters to just be dismissed as having never =
happened</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; There is a Temple to Sier in Seagate and its =
been hiding there for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; approximately 8 years.Now that its presence has =
been </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; discovered, </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Has it, in game terms?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Has something else happened other than the map entry =
being noticed by some players/GMs? I may have missed it.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is an option for resolving the immediate issue be =
saying that the temple, currently apparently closed, was never overtly =
used by anything more offensive than a tolerated 'neutral'? Is anyone =
unhappy with the idea of 'neutrals' being tolerated on the edge of =
'civilisation'?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Changing the Wiki/map entry seems the =
least-story-breaking approach.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It follows that the overtly 'neutral' location could =
only be sacked by a mob on suspicion, in a way remarkably similar to 1) =
below if this is thought better in some way.</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>its days</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; numbered.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; One of the following should happen:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 1) William runs a game resolving the matter, =
after all he </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; stuck the temple</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; there to the best of my knowledge and no doubt =
had some cunning plan</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; revolving around it. He has already indicated =
that he would do this if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; approached by the rapid PoL hordes.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 2) The Duke closes the temple down now that it =
has been bought to his</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; attention that this temple is in fact that of a =
Demon. He </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; does this for a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; number of valid political reasons. He has been =
deceived and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; wants it to just</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; quietly go away, he wishes to avoid an outbreak =
of hostilities between</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; opposing factions within the SAG, the streets =
are crawling </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; with PoL forces</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; in Seagate combating the Dark Circle, he =
doesn't want Cazala </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; invaded by one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; of its northern neighbours. I am sure there are =
other valid </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; reasons that he</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; has reached this conclusion.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Either way the worship of Sier is driven back =
underground </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; where it belongs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Having a mix of socially approved, socially =
tolerated, and socially despised religions (plus practical atheism) =
available seems to give a wide range of role-playing =
options.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm mildly surprised that the campaign committee =
translated a desire for polytheism being available for PCs (and a =
requirement that characters don't kill each other on sight) into a =
requirement for open worship of members of the 72 immediately outside =
the SAG. The stories of guild members being pacted to demons can surely =
be treated as extreme rumours amongst a great choice of fact, fiction =
and everything in-between? Was this option discussed and discarded =
off-list?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromCosmo
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 09:06:10 +1300
> Having a mix of socially approved, socially tolerated, and socially despised 
> religions (plus practical atheism) available seems to give a wide range of role-
> playing options.

That was the hope of the committee, but it seems that the main objection was that 
some deemed it impossible that a place or group aligned with a dark power to exist in 
anything less than deep cover in Seagate.  Even one as well positioned and supported 
as our ever-so slightly pitch-black Seir, and the fact that other players and GM's  
had been comfortable with the notion for a number of years.

It struck me that if the PoD never gain any sort of social legitamacy (without 
enforcing it by running a nasty empire), even it is temporary and/or though devious 
means, then they are only going to present one face.  Hooded cultists, huddled in 
basements or secluded caves hailing their dark masters in whispers just in case 
someone notices them.

That's more sad than scary.

> I'm mildly surprised that the campaign committee translated a desire for polytheism 
> being available for PCs (and a requirement that characters don't kill each other on 
> sight) into a requirement for open worship of members of the 72 immediately outside 
> the SAG. 

This really, really wasn't the objective, though it paints an amusing picture.

"Shrine of Malfas?  Sure, it's just down Darkpacting Street, off of Sickening 
Abomination Plaza, next to the Blasphemy Burgers.  You can't miss it."

For a start, no-one want to make that for players to pact away their characters...

> The stories of guild members being pacted to demons can surely be treated 
> as extreme rumours amongst a great choice of fact, fiction and everything in-
> between? Was this option discussed and discarded off-list?

That wasn't addressed directly, and you're right.  Considering thing they get up to, 
or say they get up to, few people outside of "the know" would easily credit or 
dismiss such stories.  Adventurers are the equivalent of free-lance secret agents, 
and have causual access to information and "technology" that would be disasterously 
disruptive if it fell into the hands (or minds) of normal folk.

And it's clear that a number of them have spent too long staring into the abyss....


ben


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
FromJacqui Smith
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 09:31:24 +1300
At 20:32 6/12/05, you wrote:
>Also in response to an email that stated "...Have you
>considered the possibility that nobody complained
>because the GM who put the House of Seir in Seagate
>didn't sufficiently publicise this?..." my response is
>why would it need to be? Seir gets this temple built
>and being a canny demon realises that once word leaks
>the POL followers are likely to go after it, so he
>would likely keep it fairly hush hush letting word
>spread slowly. If he publicised the existence of the
>temple it would of been burnt down in rather short
>order.

I have no problem at all with a covert House of Seir being present in 
Seagate - I have said multiple times that this forms an excellent 
compromise. What I have a problem with is campaign-pertinent information 
not being publicised to other GMs.

In-game the existence of the House of Seir in Seagate could and should be 
kept quiet - makes sense on multiple levels. Out-of-game this idea should 
have been discussed at a GMs meeting BEFORE it was introduced into the 
campaign world.

Then I'd probably be looking at a much less full in-box...

Jacqui


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 09:30:40 +1300
> I have no problem at all with a covert House of Seir being present in 
> Seagate - I have said multiple times that this forms an excellent 
> compromise. What I have a problem with is campaign-pertinent 
> information not being publicised to other GMs.
> 
> In-game the existence of the House of Seir in Seagate could 
> and should be 
> kept quiet - makes sense on multiple levels. Out-of-game this 
> idea should 
> have been discussed at a GMs meeting BEFORE it was introduced 
> into the campaign world.
> 
> Then I'd probably be looking at a much less full in-box...

Lets be honest, without doing a complete debrief of everything a GM does
on every adventure to everyone, this was never an option. 

However we know have a tool that allows us to diseminate this
information, the problems surface. The Wiki has allowed us a greater
level of visibility into the shared world. I have learned all kinds of
things about the world, somt that I don't like and some that I do, but
it is great to see the info being shared.

As the detail grows on the Wiki we are always going to have things that
some GM's like and others dislike and they are going to be far more
visible and therefor contentious. 

I suspect campaign issues like this may have to be voted on at Guild
meetings like rules. Or we can let the campaign committee say how the
world looks and formalise the currently informal group. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 10:13:29 +1300
It's a bit on the noise to have George running/moderating it.

Jono

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
William Dymock
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 7:58 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


1) William runs a game resolving the matter, after all he stuck the temple
there to the best of my knowledge and no doubt had some cunning plan
revolving around it. He has already indicated that he would do this if
approached by the rapid PoL hordes.

William is busy for the next month getting married. Certain events are to be
moderated via email by myself and George.
Talk to George if you want to sign up. If something reality bendingly
strange happens I may run a short game in late Jan or Feb.

William
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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 10:24:12 +1300
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> Cosmo
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 09:06
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.
> 
> 
> 
> > Having a mix of socially approved, socially tolerated, and 
> socially despised 
> > religions (plus practical atheism) available seems to give 
> a wide range of role-
> > playing options.
> 
> That was the hope of the committee, but it seems that the 
> main objection was that 
> some deemed it impossible that a place or group aligned with 
> a dark power to exist in 
> anything less than deep cover in Seagate.  Even one as well 
> positioned and supported 
> as our ever-so slightly pitch-black Seir, and the fact that 
> other players and GM's  
> had been comfortable with the notion for a number of years.


IMO It stretches plausibility that the Duke can have normal relations with
his neighbours if he allows open worship of one of the 72. (I think someone
else made this point earlier in the week.)

This section (along with people's reactions) implied to me that the temple
had at least in the recent past (pre-lots of PoL forces in town) been
overtly Seir's. Another example to us all that communication is never
perfect, e-mail especially so.

"Providing the cult keeps paying their guild fees, their taxes, and for
their gambling licence, there seems 
no reason not to allow them to continue to operate. It should be noted that
the Temple appears closed these days -- apparently in response to the number
of PoL troops in the city -- for which the Duke would most likely praise the
cult for their discretion."

SAG members opening declaring to each other pacting to powers can be
plausibly ignored by the Duke.

> 
> It struck me that if the PoD never gain any sort of social 
> legitamacy (without 
> enforcing it by running a nasty empire), even it is temporary 
> and/or though devious 
> means, then they are only going to present one face.  Hooded 
> cultists, huddled in 
> basements or secluded caves hailing their dark masters in 
> whispers just in case 
> someone notices them.
> 
> That's more sad than scary.
> 

The social legitimacy of the PoD can be different from those that follow
them, of course. Ironic that if a cult-with-a-false-front gets too popular,
it is likely to get a 'check-up' from the local PoL namers to see what
colour the hats really are.

<snip result of different assumptions re overtness> 

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Cosmo</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 09:06</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Having a mix of socially approved, =
socially tolerated, and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; socially despised </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; religions (plus practical atheism) =
available seems to give </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; a wide range of role-</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; playing options.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; That was the hope of the committee, but it =
seems that the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; main objection was that </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; some deemed it impossible that a place or group =
aligned with </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; a dark power to exist in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; anything less than deep cover in Seagate.&nbsp; =
Even one as well </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; positioned and supported </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; as our ever-so slightly pitch-black Seir, and =
the fact that </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; other players and GM's&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; had been comfortable with the notion for a =
number of years.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>IMO It stretches plausibility that the Duke can have =
normal relations with his neighbours if he allows open worship of one =
of the 72. (I think someone else made this point earlier in the =
week.)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This section (along with people's reactions) implied =
to me that the temple had at least in the recent past (pre-lots of PoL =
forces in town) been overtly Seir's. Another example to us all that =
communication is never perfect, e-mail especially so.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;Providing the cult keeps paying their guild =
fees, their taxes, and for their gambling licence, there seems </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>no reason not to allow them to continue to operate. =
It should be noted that the Temple appears closed these days -- =
apparently in response to the number of PoL troops in the city -- for =
which the Duke would most likely praise the cult for their =
discretion.&quot;</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>SAG members opening declaring to each other pacting =
to powers can be plausibly ignored by the Duke.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; It struck me that if the PoD never gain any =
sort of social </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; legitamacy (without </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; enforcing it by running a nasty empire), even =
it is temporary </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and/or though devious </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; means, then they are only going to present one =
face.&nbsp; Hooded </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; cultists, huddled in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; basements or secluded caves hailing their dark =
masters in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; whispers just in case </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; someone notices them.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; That's more sad than scary.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The social legitimacy of the PoD can be different =
from those that follow them, of course. Ironic that if a =
cult-with-a-false-front gets too popular, it is likely to get a =
'check-up' from the local PoL namers to see what colour the hats really =
are.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip result of different assumptions re =
overtness&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
From
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 10:49:53 +1300
i do not think the campaign committee wants the scratches associated with trying to herd cats.

we are trying to collate the information on western alusia. this will take time. things that were not commonly known will become known. some things may appear to contradict our expectations. Sometimes a ballance has to be struck.

GMs are free to do as they wish. We can only give guidelines. If a GM wishes to have ravening hordes of lightists rampaging through temples, killing and maiming the worshippers, so be it. If another GM says the pub next door is quiet that night, that works too.

All of this happens in a multi-gm world. 


Ian

> 
> From: Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>
> Date: 2005/12/07 Wed AM 09:30:40 GMT+13:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
> 
> 
> > I have no problem at all with a covert House of Seir being present in
> > Seagate - I have said multiple times that this forms an excellent
> > compromise. What I have a problem with is campaign-pertinent
> > information not being publicised to other GMs.
> >
> > In-game the existence of the House of Seir in Seagate could
> > and should be
> > kept quiet - makes sense on multiple levels. Out-of-game this
> > idea should
> > have been discussed at a GMs meeting BEFORE it was introduced
> > into the campaign world.
> >
> > Then I'd probably be looking at a much less full in-box...
> 
> Lets be honest, without doing a complete debrief of everything a GM does
> on every adventure to everyone, this was never an option.
> 
> However we know have a tool that allows us to diseminate this
> information, the problems surface. The Wiki has allowed us a greater
> level of visibility into the shared world. I have learned all kinds of
> things about the world, somt that I don't like and some that I do, but
> it is great to see the info being shared.
> 
> As the detail grows on the Wiki we are always going to have things that
> some GM's like and others dislike and they are going to be far more
> visible and therefor contentious.
> 
> I suspect campaign issues like this may have to be voted on at Guild
> meetings like rules. Or we can let the campaign committee say how the
> world looks and formalise the currently informal group.
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
Frompaul schmidt
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 10:52:45 +1300
Yes, yes. I know your neighbor sacrifices children to the Dark One but he's 
lived in Seagate for over seven years! Its hardly fair to run him out of 
town now is it?  - Cronak the Witch.

Ignbold the Normal to a friend after the Council meeting.... Well I guess 
old Cronak goes on the list as bloody insane or worshipping the Dark One as 
well..

Come on guys! Lets face it.. would you suffer granny re-animators or 
children sacrificers as neighbors?
Only the UN!

Solution for Seagate? 200 hundred peasants, 4 hayricks, 53 torches and a 
review of our stupidly non-judgmental policy of allowing baby-munchers to 
set up next door... after all, aren't these the type of guys we go 
adventuring against?

_________________________________________________________________
Read the latest Hollywood gossip  @  http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 10:59:35 +1300
Ummm yes but most of them are paid up guild members...
Jono

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
paul schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 10:53 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate


Yes, yes. I know your neighbor sacrifices children to the Dark One but he's
lived in Seagate for over seven years! Its hardly fair to run him out of
town now is it?  - Cronak the Witch.

Ignbold the Normal to a friend after the Council meeting.... Well I guess
old Cronak goes on the list as bloody insane or worshipping the Dark One as
well..

Come on guys! Lets face it.. would you suffer granny re-animators or
children sacrificers as neighbors?
Only the UN!

Solution for Seagate? 200 hundred peasants, 4 hayricks, 53 torches and a
review of our stupidly non-judgmental policy of allowing baby-munchers to
set up next door... after all, aren't these the type of guys we go
adventuring against?

_________________________________________________________________
Read the latest Hollywood gossip  @  http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromStephen Martin
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:07:01 +1300 (NZDT)
I thought it was explicitly clear that William is GM for the event (if any) as he has the prior
involvement as GM and is presumably aware of the history/background of the temple but that he does
not have much time in the next month or so.
George is helping out by co-ordinating initial interest, sorting them into sides if necessary and
passing on summarised info to William.

Do you really think that George will exclude someones involvement because they are on the 'wrong'
side?
If it was me I'd be insulted by that assertion.

We all play this game, none of us are completely impartial.  But when we act as GMs it is our
responsibility to try to be impartial.  It's self regulating, if a GM was not impartial they would
very quickly find themselves without any players on their adventures.

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean - TME said:
> It's a bit on the noise to have George running/moderating it.
>
> Jono
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of William Dymock
> Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 7:58 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.
>
>
> 1) William runs a game resolving the matter, after all he stuck the temple there to the best of
> my knowledge and no doubt had some cunning plan revolving around it. He has already indicated
> that he would do this if approached by the rapid PoL hordes.
>
> William is busy for the next month getting married. Certain events are to be moderated via email
> by myself and George.
> Talk to George if you want to sign up. If something reality bendingly strange happens I may run
> a short game in late Jan or Feb.
>
> William
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.11/191 - Release Date: 2/12/2005
>
>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:10:54 +1300
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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So, do we _have_ to help them defend themselves if a mob attacks them while
they aren't subject to a party agreement?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Bean - TME [mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz]
> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 11:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
> 
> 
> Ummm yes but most of them are paid up guild members...
> Jono
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> paul schmidt
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 10:53 a.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
> 
> 
> Yes, yes. I know your neighbor sacrifices children to the 
> Dark One but he's
> lived in Seagate for over seven years! Its hardly fair to run 
> him out of
> town now is it?  - Cronak the Witch.
> 
> Ignbold the Normal to a friend after the Council meeting.... 
> Well I guess
> old Cronak goes on the list as bloody insane or worshipping 
> the Dark One as
> well..
> 
> Come on guys! Lets face it.. would you suffer granny re-animators or
> children sacrificers as neighbors?
> Only the UN!
> 
> Solution for Seagate? 200 hundred peasants, 4 hayricks, 53 
> torches and a
> review of our stupidly non-judgmental policy of allowing 
> baby-munchers to
> set up next door... after all, aren't these the type of guys we go
> adventuring against?
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Read the latest Hollywood gossip  @  
http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment


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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Demon &amp; PoL temples in Seagate</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>So, do we _have_ to help them defend themselves if a =
mob attacks them while they aren't subject to a party agreement?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Jonathan Bean - TME [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz">mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz</A>]</FONT>=

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 11:00</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Demon &amp; PoL temples in =
Seagate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Ummm yes but most of them are paid up guild =
members...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Jono</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; paul schmidt</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 10:53 =
a.m.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Demon &amp; PoL temples in =
Seagate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Yes, yes. I know your neighbor sacrifices =
children to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Dark One but he's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; lived in Seagate for over seven years! Its =
hardly fair to run </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; him out of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; town now is it?&nbsp; - Cronak the =
Witch.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Ignbold the Normal to a friend after the =
Council meeting.... </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Well I guess</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; old Cronak goes on the list as bloody insane or =
worshipping </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the Dark One as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; well..</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Come on guys! Lets face it.. would you suffer =
granny re-animators or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; children sacrificers as neighbors?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Only the UN!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Solution for Seagate? 200 hundred peasants, 4 =
hayricks, 53 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; torches and a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; review of our stupidly non-judgmental policy of =
allowing </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; baby-munchers to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; set up next door... after all, aren't these the =
type of guys we go</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; adventuring against?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
_________________________________________________________________</FONT>=

<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Read the latest Hollywood gossip&nbsp; @&nbsp; =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment</A></FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- to unsubscribe notify <A =
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SubjectRe: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:26:29 +1300
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On 12/6/05, M.H.Young <mhyoung@xtra.co.nz> wrote:>
> Putting on my characters hats  briefly. The only conclusion I could come
to in character is that the Duke as  been possessed by Demons, Sier or his
agents and is in need of rescuing.

This may very well be true.  Please approach the GM involved (William).

Cheers,
Martin

PS: For some reason your entire post came through "big and shouty" (big bol=
d
font). I'm guessing that was unintentional; you might need to check your
email settings.

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On 12/6/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">M.H.Young</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz">mhyoung@xtra.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class=3D=
"gmail_quote"></span><span>&gt; <br>&gt; Putting on my characters hats&nbsp=
;&nbsp;briefly. The only conclusion I could come to in character is that th=
e Duke as&nbsp;&nbsp;been possessed by Demons, Sier or his agents and is in=
 need of rescuing.
<br><br>This may very well be true.&nbsp; Please approach the GM involved (=
William).<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br>PS: For some reason your entire p=
ost came through &quot;big and shouty&quot; (big bold font). I'm guessing t=
hat was unintentional; you might need to check your email settings.
</span><br></div><br>

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Subject[dq] PoL and PoD
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:27:11 +1300
The point that this discussion appears to be raising now is should the
Guild allow pacted characters? If we are going to live in a "Good"
world, with everyone worshipping the PoL and no sign of the PoD anywhere
maybe we should be blackballing all the Bad characters. 

With no bad/pacted characters we can all support the duke, remove any
temples and go back to being defenders of the universe :-)



Or.....

We could accept that we are here to roleplay and people want to play a
range of characters. From Fanatical Good through to fanatical bad and a
myriad of shades in between. Sometimes things might not make perfect
sence in a shared world and we have to accept that. 

BK might be a looney who destroys every bad thing in the world but Adam
may have to pretend to ignore things occasionally, Armound may be keen
to bring down every PoL building in Seagate, he may have to chill a
little, Father Rowan may have to temper what he does, (actually I am not
sure which side he is on) but we have to accept that in a game we all
have to have some space to play in and Seagate should be one of those
places. 

In game terms everyone deserves the right to play their character both
Good and Bad as best they can. That's the bottom line. 

Now what ever rationalisation we have to use to achieve that, we should
come up with as a group. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:35:51 +1300
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Can I just check:
 
In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building
marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) published on
the Wiki??
 
Are we only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and
said "now my character knows this, they want to burn it down"?
 
Cheers
Errol
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:26
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf


On 12/6/05, M.H.Young < mhyoung@xtra.co.nz <mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz> >
wrote: 
> 
> Putting on my characters hats  briefly. The only conclusion I could come
to in character is that the Duke as  been possessed by Demons, Sier or his
agents and is in need of rescuing. 

This may very well be true.  Please approach the GM involved (William).

Cheers,
Martin

PS: For some reason your entire post came through "big and shouty" (big bold
font). I'm guessing that was unintentional; you might need to check your
email settings. 




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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Can I 
just check:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In 
game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building marked as 
'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the 
Wiki??</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Are we 
only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and said "now my 
character knows this, they want to burn it down"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson 
  [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 
  11:26<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Campaign 
  Committee responce to Terry/Turf<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/6/05, <B 
  class=gmail_sendername>M.H.Young</B> &lt;<A 
  href="mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz">mhyoung@xtra.co.nz</A>&gt; wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN><SPAN>&gt; <BR>&gt; Putting on my 
  characters hats&nbsp;&nbsp;briefly. The only conclusion I could come to in 
  character is that the Duke as&nbsp;&nbsp;been possessed by Demons, Sier or his 
  agents and is in need of rescuing. <BR><BR>This may very well be true.&nbsp; 
  Please approach the GM involved (William).<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR><BR>PS: 
  For some reason your entire post came through "big and shouty" (big bold 
  font). I'm guessing that was unintentional; you might need to check your email 
  settings. </SPAN><BR></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 11:45:23 +1300
Stephen said:

>I thought it was explicitly clear that William is GM for the event (if any)
as he has the prior
>involvement as GM and is presumably aware of the history/background of the
temple but that he does
>not have much time in the next month or so.

Yes and also said he was busy and Mandos would be involved.

>George is helping out by co-ordinating initial interest, sorting them into
sides if necessary and
>passing on summarised info to William.

At the time of my reply George had a character that may have been involved
in this.
Mandos has told me that he is not.

Mandos will orginise the 'black caps' err which one the GM or the Player?
I now know the Mandos will onyl be assisting the GM and that Mandos will not
be playing nore will his character be.

>Do you really think that George will exclude someones involvement because
they are on the 'wrong'
>side? If it was me I'd be insulted by that assertion.

Mandos is welcome to come join the que of wildely insulted people.
He will see me in the que ahead of him - saying its not right to GM your own
charatcer.
No I do not wish to think any error could fall into this area, and I dont
want others to think this either.

>We all play this game, none of us are completely impartial.  But when we
act as GMs it is our
>responsibility to try to be impartial.

I agree. But when it comes to something that my character is involved in - I
normally abstain as I dont want to blur the line. Other GMs are happy to
actively work towards making there nest better.

>It's self regulating, if a GM was not impartial they would
>very quickly find themselves without any players on their adventures.
I agree - which is why I was insulted by the idea of a GM AND player playing
on this.
I do want to play - I do not want to play if Mandos is running/helping if he
is playing Dramus.
I would choise (as you have pointed out) not to play and to protest seeking
clearifaction (as I have done).

I now understand that Mandos is not playing a character on this 'PBeM' and
that the sole-GM is William.
Excellent!!! - I look forward to signing up.

Kind regards
Jonathan Bean


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 11:55:53 +1300
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On 12/7/05, Cosmo <cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com> wrote:
>
>
> ...it seems that the main objection was that
> some deemed it impossible that a place or group aligned with a dark power
> to exist in
> anything less than deep cover in Seagate.


Part of this seems to stem from a difference in opinion as to the commonly
known information and common profile of the PoD / demons / the 72.

Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that not everyone
knows their names and natures, and that they can have good PR... which coul=
d
lead to them being (marginally) socially acceptable.

Other GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their names and natures
are well known, and no matter how charming they can choose to seem, they ar=
e
never going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in Carzala.

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On 12/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Cosmo</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c=
osmo@evilbadandwrong.com">cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com</a>&gt; wrote:<div><spa=
n class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b=
order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; paddin=
g-left: 1ex;">
<br>...it seems that the main objection was that<br>some deemed it impossib=
le that a place or group aligned with a dark power to exist in<br>anything =
less than deep cover in Seagate.</blockquote><div><br>Part of this seems to=
 stem from a difference in opinion as to the commonly known information and=
 common profile of the PoD / demons / the 72.
<br><br>Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that not e=
veryone knows their names and natures, and that they can have good PR... wh=
ich could lead to them being (marginally) socially acceptable.<br><br>Other=
 GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their names and natures are we=
ll known, and no matter how charming they can choose to seem, they are neve=
r going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in Carzala.
<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] PoL and PoD
FromClare Baldock
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:01:27 +1300
On 07/12/2005, at 11:27, Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>
> The point that this discussion appears to be raising now is should the
> Guild allow pacted characters? If we are going to live in a "Good"
> world, with everyone worshipping the PoL and no sign of the PoD 
> anywhere
> maybe we should be blackballing all the Bad characters.

I think everyone is in agreement that the Guild should allow pacted 
characters. I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise (if I did my mind 
obviously blocked it out as arrant nonsense).

> In game terms everyone deserves the right to play their character both
> Good and Bad as best they can. That's the bottom line.

Yes they do, though the more extreme they are, to either side, the more 
problems they will cause to other characters and the world. If you play 
an extreme good or bad character you have to be able to accept some 
in-character censure. And you have to take the consequences of your 
*actions*.

> Now what ever rationalisation we have to use to achieve that, we should
> come up with as a group.

Agreed. I note, however, that whatever rationalisation we come up with 
doesn't have to include the Duke sanctioning open worship of Demons in 
Seagate. It doesn't have to not include that either. Obviously I 
personally come down further to the "don't allow" it end than most 
people, but I can certainly live with it if that is for the greater 
good. I do not endorse a "monotheist" view, but I would prefer a view 
that gives "good" some social edge over "evil". I won't be at the Guild 
meeting however, so good luck to the rest of you,

cheers,

clare


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SubjectRe: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
From
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:03:28 +1300
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this is my understanding. All was well until someone noticed the temple on teh map.

> 
> From: Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz>
> Date: 2005/12/07 Wed AM 11:35:51 GMT+13:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
> 
> Can I just check:
>  
> In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building
> marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) published on
> the Wiki??
>  
> Are we only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and
> said "now my character knows this, they want to burn it down"?
>  
> Cheers
> Errol
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:26
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
> 
> 
> On 12/6/05, M.H.Young < mhyoung@xtra.co.nz <mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz> >
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Putting on my characters hats  briefly. The only conclusion I could come
> to in character is that the Duke as  been possessed by Demons, Sier or his
> agents and is in need of rescuing. 
> 
> This may very well be true.  Please approach the GM involved (William).
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
> 
> PS: For some reason your entire post came through "big and shouty" (big bold
> font). I'm guessing that was unintentional; you might need to check your
> email settings. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Can I 
just check:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In 
game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building marked as 
'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the 
Wiki??</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Are we 
only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and said "now my 
character knows this, they want to burn it down"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson 
  [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 
  11:26<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Campaign 
  Committee responce to Terry/Turf<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/6/05, <B 
  class=gmail_sendername>M.H.Young</B> &lt;<A 
  href="mailto:mhyoung@xtra.co.nz">mhyoung@xtra.co.nz</A>&gt; wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN><SPAN>&gt; <BR>&gt; Putting on my 
  characters hats&nbsp;&nbsp;briefly. The only conclusion I could come to in 
  character is that the Duke as&nbsp;&nbsp;been possessed by Demons, Sier or his 
  agents and is in need of rescuing. <BR><BR>This may very well be true.&nbsp; 
  Please approach the GM involved (William).<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR><BR>PS: 
  For some reason your entire post came through "big and shouty" (big bold 
  font). I'm guessing that was unintentional; you might need to check your email 
  settings. </SPAN><BR></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Campaign Committee responce to Terry/Turf
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:05:07 +1300
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On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building
> marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) published o=
n
> the Wiki??
>
> Are we only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and
> said "now my character knows this, they want to burn it down"?
>

Hi Errol,

As far as I know, and as far as was discussed by the Committee, nothing has
changed.

The temple has been there for some time. There appears some disjoint betwee=
n
its wiki entry, naming it explicitly as a temple of Seir and the fact that
it does not actually (according to the GM) have a big neon sign saying
"Seir's Place", but is instead marked as the "Temple of Luck and Chance".

It also appears to be closed -- did anyone bother to read that in the reply=
?

What we appear to have is someone noticing for the first time that there is
a knock shop on the High Street -- a knock shop that has been there for
years -- and running around crying: "Won't someone think of the children?!"

Regards,
Martin

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On 12/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-=
left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left=
: 1ex;">
<br><div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">In=20
game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building marked=
 as=20
'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the=
=20
Wiki??</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"></font></span>=
&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Are we=20
only discussing this now because players/GMs noticed this info and said &qu=
ot;now my=20
character knows this, they want to burn it down&quot;?</font></span></div><=
/blockquote><div><br>Hi Errol,<br><br>As far as I know, and as far as was d=
iscussed by the Committee, nothing has changed.<br><br>The temple has been =
there for some time. There appears some disjoint between its wiki entry, na=
ming it explicitly as a temple of Seir and the fact that it does not actual=
ly (according to the GM) have a big neon sign saying &quot;Seir's Place&quo=
t;, but is instead marked as the &quot;Temple of Luck and Chance&quot;.
<br><br>It also appears to be closed -- did <span style=3D"text-decoration:=
 underline;"><span style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">anyone</span></spa=
n> bother to read that in the reply?<br><br>What we appear to have is someo=
ne noticing for the first time that there is a knock shop on the High Stree=
t -- a knock shop that has been there for years -- and running around cryin=
g: &quot;Won't someone think of the children?!&quot;
<br><br>Regards,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromSimpson
\ Mark\ \(NZ\)
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:05:44 +1300
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Well regardless of the accepted level of general knowledge of the =
various demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA =
the higher ups of the temple and ask "is this entity pacted to a demon?" =
and the answer would come back "yes", barring some serious conclealment =
magics? Any concecrating of the ground should give a similar arua to be =
read?=20
=20
Its the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not =
matter what is actually intended.
=20
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of =
Martin Dickson
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:56 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


On 12/7/05, Cosmo < cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com> wrote:=20



...it seems that the main objection was that
some deemed it impossible that a place or group aligned with a dark =
power to exist in
anything less than deep cover in Seagate.


Part of this seems to stem from a difference in opinion as to the =
commonly known information and common profile of the PoD / demons / the =
72.=20

Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that not =
everyone knows their names and natures, and that they can have good =
PR... which could lead to them being (marginally) socially acceptable.

Other GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their names and =
natures are well known, and no matter how charming they can choose to =
seem, they are never going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in =
Carzala.=20




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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958115922-06122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Well=20
regardless of the accepted&nbsp;level of general knowledge of =
the&nbsp;various=20
demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA the =
higher ups=20
of the temple and ask "is this entity pacted to a demon?" and the answer =
would=20
come back "yes", barring some serious conclealment magics? Any =
concecrating of=20
the ground should give a similar arua to be =
read?&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958115922-06122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958115922-06122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Its=20
the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not matter =
what is=20
actually intended.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958115922-06122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D958115922-06122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20
  Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:56 =
a.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another=20
  Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B=20
  class=3Dgmail_sendername>Cosmo</B> &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com">cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com</A>&g=
t;=20
  wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>...it=20
    seems that the main objection was that<BR>some deemed it impossible =
that a=20
    place or group aligned with a dark power to exist in<BR>anything =
less than=20
    deep cover in Seagate.</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>Part of this seems to stem from a difference in opinion as to =
the=20
  commonly known information and common profile of the PoD / demons / =
the 72.=20
  <BR><BR>Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that =
not=20
  everyone knows their names and natures, and that they can have good =
PR...=20
  which could lead to them being (marginally) socially =
acceptable.<BR><BR>Other=20
  GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their names and natures =
are well=20
  known, and no matter how charming they can choose to seem, they are =
never=20
  going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in Carzala.=20
  <BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:14:05 +1300
> Its the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not
matter what is actually intended.

I too think that this is the root cause of the issue as well. The word
"Demon" has different conotations depending on the literature/game
experience of the various people. 

What we do about that is a problem as getting people to agree is the
same issue we have at the moment :0(

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
FromHelen Saggers
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:39:01 +1300
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Lets be honest, without doing a complete debrief of everything a GM does
on every adventure to everyone, this was never an option.=20

Players PCs make contact with NPCs, in or around seagate, carzala or the =
wider world on every adventure.
Who can say what contact will be impact on another GM on another =
adventure. The wica in slipery rock that sold them the rank 19 skin =
changes, the captain of a fishing boat that can be hired for a price to =
take people up or down the coast/ river, Bob the alchemist, the Master =
tailor their party resuced and brought back to seagate "Owing" them an =
adventure or two back.

Its one of the reasons I like Jonos idea of some sort of factions list =
for PCs, if Player has reason to think they can go back to an NPC it =
should be noted. And your not left going what wica?

However we know have a tool that allows us to diseminate this
information, the problems surface. The Wiki has allowed us a greater
level of visibility into the shared world. I have learned all kinds of
things about the world, somt that I don't like and some that I do, but
it is great to see the info being shared.

One of the points that has been brought up is what on the wiki is public =
info? what is known by the man on the street, what info is known to more =
educated, politically savy, or regliously oriented. What can be lookeed =
up in the guild library, and what is there for the GMs only.=20
What we may see as this info is gathered and made public is PC knowledge =
verses Player knowledge becoming a problem.

I for one have yet to add anything that the PCs could not find in the =
scribe notes to the info on my planes errors and all. It saves plowing =
though several adventure worth of notes, but if a PC who hadn't visted =
before and hadn't gone to the guild and look up all the stuff on =
Paradise, brough up somthing they couldn't know.... bad Player -ve ep.

I can do this as it's my plane, but in a shared world where other GMs =
need to know stuff, we need to formalize how we mark stuff GMs only, =
avaible on reseach, and public knowledge.

As the detail grows on the Wiki we are always going to have things that
some GM's like and others dislike and they are going to be far more
visible and therefor contentious.=20

I suspect campaign issues like this may have to be voted on at Guild
meetings like rules. Or we can let the campaign committee say how the
world looks and formalise the currently informal group.=20

I think we are going to need some sort of  guide lines (maybe put them =
in the new GMs guide) that out lines the kinds of things that may exist =
in the shared parts of our shared world ( eg be entered on to the wiki) =
without review.
If a GM wants there to be something outside those guide lines then it is =
only in their version of the world, or their version of that bit. Or =
else they get it approved before it goes on to the wiki to become part =
of the shared world.=20
The campain commitee are probaly the best ones to set the guild lines =
(we can vote the guild lines into effect) and to do the review, with the =
option for both the commitee and the GM to take it to a full Gods vote =
if they feel they need to.
The words if in doult put it on the list and request a reveiw sound good =
to me, that way it will get discussed but there is someone who can make =
a decission without the need for a full gods vote, and hopefully it will =
take into account the public discussion.

This way even if some people don't like something it can still be =
approved.
It should incorrage GMs to stay in the guild lines with things around =
seagate and even if it isn't a part of everyones campain its can still =
be part of that GMs version of the world.

Helen


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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lets be honest, without doing a =
complete=20
debrief of everything a GM does<BR>on every adventure to everyone, this =
was=20
never an option. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Players PCs make =
contact with NPCs,=20
in or around seagate, carzala or the wider world on every=20
adventure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Who can say what =
contact will be=20
impact on another GM on another adventure. The wica in slipery rock that =
sold=20
them the rank&nbsp;19 skin changes, the captain of a fishing boat that =
can be=20
hired for a price to take people up or down the coast/ river, Bob the =
alchemist,=20
the Master tailor their party resuced and brought back to seagate =
"Owing" them=20
an adventure or two back</FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Its one of the reasons =
I like Jonos=20
idea of&nbsp;some sort of&nbsp;factions list for PCs, if Player has =
reason to=20
think they can go back to an NPC it should be noted. And your not left =
going=20
what wica?</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>However we know have a tool that =
allows us to=20
diseminate this<BR>information, the problems surface. The Wiki has =
allowed us a=20
greater<BR>level of visibility into the shared world. I have learned all =
kinds=20
of<BR>things about the world, somt that I don't like and some that I do, =

but<BR>it is great to see the info being shared.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>One of the points =
that has been=20
brought up is what on the wiki is public info? what is known by the man =
on the=20
street, what info is known to more educated, politically savy, or =
regliously=20
oriented. What can be lookeed up in the guild library, =
a</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>nd what is there for the GMs =
only.=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>What we =
may&nbsp;see as this=20
info is gathered and made public is PC&nbsp;knowledge verses Player =
knowledge=20
becoming a problem.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I for one have =
yet to add=20
anything that the&nbsp;PCs could not find in the scribe notes to the =
info on my=20
planes errors and all. It saves plowing though several adventure worth =
of notes,=20
but&nbsp;if a PC who hadn't visted before and hadn't gone to the guild =
and look=20
up all the stuff on Paradise, brough up somthing they couldn't know.... =
bad=20
Player -ve ep.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I can do this as =
it's my plane,=20
but in a shared world where other GMs need to know stuff, we need to =
formalize=20
how we mark stuff GMs only, avaible on reseach, and public=20
knowledge.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>As the detail grows on the Wiki we are always going to have =
things=20
that<BR>some GM's like and others dislike and they are going to be far=20
more<BR>visible and therefor contentious. <BR><BR>I suspect campaign =
issues like=20
this may have to be voted on at Guild<BR>meetings like rules. Or we can =
let the=20
campaign committee say how the<BR>world looks and formalise the =
currently=20
informal group. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>I think we are going to need some sort of =
&nbsp;guide=20
lines (maybe put them in the new GMs guide) that&nbsp;out lines&nbsp;the =
kinds=20
of things that&nbsp;may exist in the shared parts of our shared world ( =
eg be=20
entered on to the wiki) without review.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>If a GM wants there to be something outside =
those guide=20
lines then it is only in their version of the world, or their version of =
that=20
bit. Or else they get it approved before it goes on to the wiki to =
become part=20
of the shared world. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The campain commitee&nbsp;are probaly the =
best ones to=20
set the guild lines (we can vote the guild lines into effect) and to do =
the=20
review, with the option for both the commitee and the GM to take it to a =
full=20
Gods vote if they feel they need to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>The words if in doult put it on the list and =
request a=20
reveiw sound good to me, that way it will get discussed but there is =
someone who=20
can make a decission without the need for a full gods vote, and =
hopefully it=20
will take into account the public discussion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>This way even if&nbsp;some people don't like =
something=20
it can still be approved.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>It should incorrage&nbsp;GMs to stay in the =
guild lines=20
with things around seagate and even if it isn't a part of everyones =
campain its=20
can still be part of that GMs version of the world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:27:08 +1300
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On 12/7/05, Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz <Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz> wrote:
>
> Well regardless of the accepted level of general knowledge of the various
> demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA the highe=
r
> ups of the temple and ask "is this entity pacted to a demon?" and the ans=
wer
> would come back "yes", barring some serious conclealment magics?
>

Oh, definitely.  And even beyond that there are PoL Agents around (Blitz
being one, Mary-M another) whose "spidey" sense will tingle when the unholy
folk are within 50 feet... or similar. These are usually active senses
though -- like Detect Undead... having them passive could be a serious game
breaker.

Lay worshippers (people who go to lose money at the Temple of Luck and
Chance won't set off the unholy meters, but generally Initiates will, and
Priests / Clerics / Agents will almost always start alarms clanging.

Any concecrating of the ground should give a similar arua to be read?
>

Yes, sure. So it depends on how the Temple is set up.  If the publically
accessible areas are say, a gambling hall, and the people who work there ar=
e
Lay members, then there's probably nothing to set the PoL senses off --
should they ever manage to get to the inner sanctum, which is presumably
reserved for Initiates and higher, then their evil meters will be pinging
away furiously.

Its the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not matte=
r
> what is actually intended.
>

Sure -- and no-one (as far as I know) is arguing that point.

After off-list discussion with Jim I was left with the distinct impression
that the cause of all this ruckas is us coming at it from divergent points
of view around what the non-Adventurers know of the "D"'s -- not about thei=
r
actual natures.

Cheers,
Martin

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On 12/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"><a href=3D"mailto:Simpson@smtp.si=
g.net.nz">Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz</a></b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Simpson@smt=
p.sig.net.nz">Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class=3D"gma=
il_quote">
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rg=
b(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Well=20
regardless of the accepted&nbsp;level of general knowledge of the&nbsp;vari=
ous=20
demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA the higher =
ups=20
of the temple and ask &quot;is this entity pacted to a demon?&quot; and the=
 answer would=20
come back &quot;yes&quot;, barring some serious conclealment magics?</font>=
</span></div></blockquote><div><br>Oh, definitely.&nbsp; And even beyond th=
at there are PoL Agents around (Blitz being one, Mary-M another) whose &quo=
t;spidey&quot; sense will tingle when the unholy folk are within 50 feet...=
 or similar. These are usually active senses though -- like Detect Undead..=
. having them passive could be a serious game breaker.
<br><br>Lay worshippers (people who go to lose money at the Temple of Luck =
and Chance won't set off the unholy meters, but generally Initiates will, a=
nd Priests / Clerics / Agents will almost always start alarms clanging.
<br></div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px s=
olid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><di=
v><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"> Any concecrating=
 of=20
the ground should give a similar arua to be read?&nbsp;</font></span></div>=
</blockquote><div><br>Yes, sure. So it depends on how the Temple is set up.=
&nbsp; If the publically
accessible areas are say, a gambling hall, and the people who work
there are Lay members, then there's probably nothing to set the PoL senses =
off -- should they ever manage to get to the inner sanctum, which is presum=
ably reserved for Initiates and higher, then their evil meters will be ping=
ing away furiously.
<br> </div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><d=
iv><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Its=20
the &quot;D&quot; word thats the problem. It has a &quot;serious evil&quot;=
 taint not matter what is=20
actually intended.</font></span></div></blockquote><div><br>Sure -- and no-=
one (as far as I know) is arguing that point.<br><br>After off-list discuss=
ion with Jim I was left with the distinct impression that the cause of all =
this ruckas is us coming at it from divergent points of view around what th=
e non-Adventurers know of the &quot;D&quot;'s -- not about their actual nat=
ures.
<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:30:57 +1300
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But if we want it to exist, but mis-labelled, then it is a plausible option
to say that the PoL have never bothered kidnapping a priest or breaking in
(on the assumption appropriate precautions are taken by the priests,
possibly including some serious concealment magics).
 
We also have an option to chew this over for the next 3 months (maybe
including 'what do the PoL believe in anyway', and resolve in-game (if
required/desired) when a couple of the more involved individuals have more
real-world time. There is nothing in-game bringing this to head in Summer
05/06, and things would probably benefit from good planning.
 
Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:06
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


Well regardless of the accepted level of general knowledge of the various
demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA the higher
ups of the temple and ask "is this entity pacted to a demon?" and the answer
would come back "yes", barring some serious conclealment magics? Any
concecrating of the ground should give a similar arua to be read? 
 
Its the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not matter
what is actually intended.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:56 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


On 12/7/05, Cosmo < cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com
<mailto:cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com> > wrote: 



...it seems that the main objection was that
some deemed it impossible that a place or group aligned with a dark power to
exist in
anything less than deep cover in Seagate.


Part of this seems to stem from a difference in opinion as to the commonly
known information and common profile of the PoD / demons / the 72. 

Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that not everyone
knows their names and natures, and that they can have good PR... which could
lead to them being (marginally) socially acceptable.

Other GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their names and natures
are well known, and no matter how charming they can choose to seem, they are
never going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in Carzala. 




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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But if 
we want it to exist, but mis-labelled, then it is a plausible option to say that 
the PoL have never bothered kidnapping a priest or breaking in (on the 
assumption appropriate precautions are taken by the priests, possibly including 
some serious concealment magics).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We 
also have an option to chew this over for the next 3 months (maybe 
including&nbsp;'what do the PoL believe in anyway', and resolve in-game (if 
required/desired) when a couple of the more involved individuals have more 
real-world time. There is nothing in-game bringing this to head in Summer 05/06, 
and things would probably benefit from good planning.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=605151523-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> 
  Simpson@smtp.sig.net.nz<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 
  12:06<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another 
  Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=958115922-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Well 
  regardless of the accepted&nbsp;level of general knowledge of the&nbsp;various 
  demons, isnt it the case that in DQ you would simply have to DA the higher ups 
  of the temple and ask "is this entity pacted to a demon?" and the answer would 
  come back "yes", barring some serious conclealment magics? Any concecrating of 
  the ground should give a similar arua to be read?&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=958115922-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=958115922-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Its 
  the "D" word thats the problem. It has a "serious evil" taint not matter what 
  is actually intended.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=958115922-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=958115922-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 
    [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin 
    Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 11:56 a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> 
    dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another 
    Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B 
    class=gmail_sendername>Cosmo</B> &lt;<A 
    href="mailto:cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com">cosmo@evilbadandwrong.com</A>&gt; 
    wrote: 
    <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
    style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><BR>...it 
      seems that the main objection was that<BR>some deemed it impossible that a 
      place or group aligned with a dark power to exist in<BR>anything less than 
      deep cover in Seagate.</BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV><BR>Part of this seems to stem from a difference in opinion as to the 
    commonly known information and common profile of the PoD / demons / the 72. 
    <BR><BR>Some GMs hold the opinion that they are indeed evil, but that not 
    everyone knows their names and natures, and that they can have good PR... 
    which could lead to them being (marginally) socially 
    acceptable.<BR><BR>Other GMs agree that they are evil, but hold that their 
    names and natures are well known, and no matter how charming they can choose 
    to seem, they are never going to be socially acceptable... leastways not in 
    Carzala. <BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Demon & PoL temples in Seagate
FromMichael Scott
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 12:36:11 +1300


>From: paul schmidt <p_f_schmidt@hotmail.com>

>Yes, yes. I know your neighbor sacrifices children to the Dark One but he's 
>lived in Seagate for over seven years! Its hardly fair to run him out of 
>town now is it?  - Cronak the Witch.
>

As long as it is his own children and appropreate butchering techniques are 
use I don't see the problem with some one exerciseing thier religion. Also 
sounds like an effective form of population control.

>Ignbold the Normal to a friend after the Council meeting.... Well I guess 
>old Cronak goes on the list as bloody insane or worshipping the Dark One as 
>well..
>

So you admit that those who worship the dark one are sane do you.

>Come on guys! Lets face it.. would you suffer granny re-animators or 
>children sacrificers as neighbors?
>Only the UN!
>

Yes. MYOB and I'll mind mine. Also reanimating grannies makes sense at least 
as lesser bound undead they can ern a wage and provide for thier family. 
Maybe pay of those debts occured in thier dotage for care and feeding.

>Solution for Seagate? 200 hundred peasants, 4 hayricks, 53 torches and a 
>review of our stupidly non-judgmental policy of allowing baby-munchers to 
>set up next door

Damn straight get the peasents to run all those baby eating pointy eared 
vegetables out of Seagate. After all the only good Elf is a dead Elf. Guild 
members the exception of course.

... after all, aren't these the
>type of guys we go adventuring against?

Actually They are usually the employer, and damn they pay well.

TTFN
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Need more speed? Get Xtra Broadband @ 
http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:38:11 +1300
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On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:
>
> There is nothing in-game bringing this to head in Summer 05/06, and thing=
s
> would probably benefit from good planning.
>

There was Turf -- making a demand -- that the shared NPC "Duke Leto of
Carzala" make an immediate decision regarding the unmarked and apparently
closed building that is purported to be a Temple of Seir.

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On 12/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-=
left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left=
: 1ex;">
<div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">There is nothi=
ng in-game bringing this to head in Summer 05/06,=20
and things would probably benefit from good planning.</font></span></div></=
blockquote><div><br>There was Turf -- making a demand -- that the shared NP=
C &quot;Duke Leto of Carzala&quot; make an immediate decision regarding the=
 unmarked and apparently closed building that is purported to be a Temple o=
f Seir.
<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:51:03 +1300
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-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:38
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit < ecavit@tollnz.co.nz <mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> >
wrote: 


There is nothing in-game bringing this to head in Summer 05/06, and things
would probably benefit from good planning.


There was Turf -- making a demand -- that the shared NPC "Duke Leto of
Carzala" make an immediate decision regarding the unmarked and apparently
closed building that is purported to be a Temple of Seir. 


 

And (in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions
raised (what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted
adventurers?) until a later in-game date is trivial.
 
Errol 

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson 
  [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 
  12:38<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another 
  Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B class=gmail_sendername>Errol 
  Cavit</B> &lt;<A href="mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</A>&gt; 
  wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There is nothing in-game 
    bringing this to head in Summer 05/06, and things would probably benefit 
    from good planning.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>There was Turf -- making a demand -- that the shared NPC "Duke Leto 
  of Carzala" make an immediate decision regarding the unmarked and apparently 
  closed building that is purported to be a Temple of Seir. <BR></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><BR><SPAN class=391474623-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=391474623-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And 
(in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions raised 
(what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted adventurers?) 
until a later in-game date is trivial.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=391474623-06122005></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=391474623-06122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMartin Dickson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 12:55:15 +1300
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On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:
>
>
> And (in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions
> raised (what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted
> adventurers?) until a later in-game date is trivial.
>

It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.

As for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that th=
e
current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their recent
adventure.

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On 12/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-=
left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left=
: 1ex;">







<div></div><br><div><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"=
>And=20
(in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions raised=
=20
(what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted adventure=
rs?)=20
until a later in-game date is trivial.</font></span></div></blockquote><div=
><br>It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.<br><br>As for h=
ow it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that the curren=
t &quot;Heroes of the Dark Circle&quot; sought aid there during their recen=
t adventure.
<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromHelen Saggers
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 13:45:57 +1300
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As for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that =
the current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their =
recent adventure.=20

As far as I can see from the notes on the wiki they talked to seir yes , =
but no where does it say "and we went to the temple of seir in seagate." =
It doesn't say where it could have been in the guild or at new haven.

I don't think Adam said  in the pub " well thats my beer now I m off to =
the temple of Seir to ask him for help and advice." Since (As my PC =
Thorn) I know he can call him, I would asume from whats in notes that he =
just call him  to some place like Ive seen him do.

Unless There is some other source, I think this whole bloodly mess may =
well have been started by a misslableing, and Player vs PC knowledge =
conflict.
Not that that makes what Willam and Mandos are doing any less valid at =
this point.

Helen

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for how it all came up, my (possibly =
incorrect)=20
understanding is that the current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid =
there=20
during their recent adventure. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>As far as I can see =
from the notes on=20
the wiki&nbsp;they talked to seir yes , but no where does it say "and we =
went to=20
the temple of seir in seagate." It doesn't say where it could have been =
in the=20
guild or at new haven.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I don't think Adam =
said&nbsp; in the=20
pub " well thats my beer now I m off to the temple of Seir to ask him =
for help=20
and advice." Since (As my PC Thorn) I know he can call him, I would =
asume from=20
whats in notes that he just call him&nbsp; to some place like Ive seen =
him=20
do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Unless There is some =
other source, I=20
think this whole bloodly mess may well have been started by a =
misslableing, and=20
Player vs PC knowledge conflict.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Not that that makes =
what Willam and=20
Mandos are doing any less valid at this point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 13:38:57 +1300
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-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:55
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit < ecavit@tollnz.co.nz <mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> >
wrote: 



And (in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions
raised (what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted
adventurers?) until a later in-game date is trivial.


It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.

As for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that the
current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their recent
adventure. 


 

So if your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to 
 
 "In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building
marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) published on
the Wiki??"
i.e. a party went up to it and knocked on the door/window/back way in.
 
 
If Turf knows about this, and is reacting to this knowledge, then in-game
the options are different (or at least there are different amounts of
back-story being broken if we fiddle with it.)
 
If Terry is having Turf react to info that he thinks Turf learnt some other
undefined way, then the vaguely defined act of learning hasn't happened yet
(if it is best for the campaign that it hasn't).
 
 
 
 
Note I'm talking about the pros and cons of different options here, not
specifying that one particular option is taken.
 
Errol

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson 
  [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 December 2005 
  12:55<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another 
  Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B class=gmail_sendername>Errol 
  Cavit</B> &lt;<A href="mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</A>&gt; 
  wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote></SPAN>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote 
  style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
    <DIV></DIV><BR>
    <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And (in case people need it 
    spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions raised (what's his 
    justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted adventurers?) until a 
    later in-game date is trivial.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.<BR><BR>As for 
  how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that the current 
  "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their recent adventure. 
  <BR></DIV></DIV>
  <DIV><BR><SPAN class=299191300-07122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=299191300-07122005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So if 
your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to</FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=299191300-07122005>&nbsp;"</SPAN>In game terms, has anything 
happened in the last season re the building marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the 
Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the Wiki??<SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=299191300-07122005>i.e. a party went up to it and knocked on 
the door/window/back way in.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=299191300-07122005>If Turf knows about this, and is reacting 
to this knowledge, then in-game the options are different (or at least there are 
different amounts of back-story being broken if we fiddle with 
it.)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=299191300-07122005>If Terry is having Turf react to info that 
he thinks Turf learnt some other undefined way, then the vaguely defined act of 
learning hasn't happened yet (if it is best for the campaign that it 
hasn't).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN class=299191300-07122005>Note I'm talking about the pros and cons 
of different options here, not specifying that one particular option is 
taken.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=989403022-06122005><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
size=2><SPAN 
class=299191300-07122005>Errol</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 14:05:58 +1300
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Hi all,

Helen said:
> As far as I can see from the notes on the wiki they talked to seir yes ,
but no where does it say
> "and we went to the temple of seir in seagate." It doesn't say where it
could have been in the guild or at new haven.
No temples in New Haven. The temple to Seir was in Seagate.

I think and expect that;
Turf was Name Summoning Saydar each day to check on the party.
Turf knows the inforamtion from Saydar.
Saydar who visited the open and working temple to Seir in Seagate last
session with Vychan.
Vychan did a call master in the open and working temple.

In Jon McSpaddens game last session;
The temple to Seir in Seagate was open for business and working with people
coming and going.

Kind regards,
Jonathan Bean

  -----Original Message-----
  From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
  Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 1:39 p.m.
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
  Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:55
    To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
    Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


    On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:


      And (in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his
suspicions raised (what's his justification for knowing BTW, following known
pacted adventurers?) until a later in-game date is trivial.

    It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.

    As for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is that
the current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their recent
adventure.



  So if your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to

   "In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the building
marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) published on
the Wiki??"
  i.e. a party went up to it and knocked on the door/window/back way in.


  If Turf knows about this, and is reacting to this knowledge, then in-game
the options are different (or at least there are different amounts of
back-story being broken if we fiddle with it.)

  If Terry is having Turf react to info that he thinks Turf learnt some
other undefined way, then the vaguely defined act of learning hasn't
happened yet (if it is best for the campaign that it hasn't).




  Note I'm talking about the pros and cons of different options here, not
specifying that one particular option is taken.

  Errol

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Hi=20
all,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Helen=20
said:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
As far as I can see from the notes on the wiki&nbsp;they talked to seir =
yes ,=20
but no where does it say </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
"and we went to the temple of seir in seagate." It doesn't say where it =
could=20
have been in the guild or at new haven.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>No=20
temples in New Haven. The temple to Seir was in =
Seagate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
think and expect that;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Turf=20
was Name Summoning Saydar each day to check on the =
party.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Turf=20
knows the inforamtion from Saydar.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Saydar</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>&nbsp;who visited the open and working temple =
to Seir in=20
Seagate last session with Vychan.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Vychan=20
did a call master in the open and working temple.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>In Jon=20
McSpaddens game last session; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>The=20
temple to Seir in Seagate was open for business and working with people =
coming=20
and going.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Kind=20
regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Jonathan Bean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D622575900-08122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Errol =
Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Wednesday, 7 December 2005 1:39 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another=20
  Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson=20
    [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 =
December 2005=20
    12:55<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] =
Another=20
    Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B =
class=3Dgmail_sendername>Errol=20
    Cavit</B> &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:=20
    <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
      <DIV></DIV><BR>
      <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>And (in =
case people need=20
      it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions raised (what's his =

      justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted =
adventurers?) until=20
      a later in-game date is trivial.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV><BR>It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask =
him.<BR><BR>As=20
    for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is =
that the=20
    current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their =
recent=20
    adventure. <BR></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><BR><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>So=20
  if your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to</FONT>=20
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>&nbsp;"</SPAN>In game terms, =
has=20
  anything happened in the last season re the building marked as 'Temple =
of=20
  Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the =
Wiki??<SPAN=20
  class=3D299191300-07122005>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>i.e. a party went up to it =
and knocked=20
  on the door/window/back way =
in.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>If Turf knows about this, =
and is=20
  reacting to this knowledge, then in-game the options are different (or =
at=20
  least there are different amounts of back-story being broken if we =
fiddle with=20
  it.)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>If Terry is having Turf =
react to info=20
  that he thinks Turf learnt some other undefined way, then the vaguely =
defined=20
  act of learning hasn't happened yet (if it is best for the campaign =
that it=20
  hasn't).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>Note I'm talking about the =
pros and cons=20
  of different options here, not specifying that one particular option =
is=20
  taken.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005>Errol</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq] Temple of Seir
FromAndrew Luxton-Reilly
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 14:20:04 +1300
Knowledge of the temple spread in character as follows:

On a recent adventure, Vychan decided to visit the Temple of Seir in 
Seagate.  Saydar was paired up with him (since we were operating a 
"buddy" system to avoid being assassinated alone - misery loves company 
they say).  The priest of the temple came out and greeted Vychan and 
they went off to do demonic things.  Saydar waited outside.

After the adventure, Saydar was drinking and telling tales of the 
adventure as he usually does.  Turf was present and heard about the 
temple.  With suitable prompting and purchase of alcohol, Saydar was 
happy to point out the exact building.

Who knows what the Duke knew of the subject?  Terry (as a player) wanted 
the campaign committee to make a ruling on the response of the 
authorities to such an event.  You know the rest :)

Ciao,
Andrew


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
Frommhyoung
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 14:35:18 +1300
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It doesn't matter where Turf came by the information, although in this =
case he came by it perfectly legitimately. But even if he hadn't, the =
fact is he has the information and reasonably can be expected to act on =
it. Out of character knowledge can only be suppressed within a game by a =
GM and most sensible GMs will alter the story line to accommodate the =
knowledge rather than suppress it. In rare circumstances you might tell =
the players they cant act on some piece of out of character knowledge =
one of them has just blurted out to the entire party as it directly =
attacks the world or the current game your running. But as a rule you =
would just nod sagely while making the mental adjustments to your story =
line and carry on. If I couldn't make the adjustments on the spot as it =
requires more time than I have at the moment then I would simply delay =
the party in some manner and think about it later once the nights game =
had ended. A week is plenty of time to come up with a solution that's =
reasonable.

Michael Young

P.S. This is 14 point Arial font and you'll just have to live with it.=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Errol Cavit=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 1:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Martin Dickson [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:55
    To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
    Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


    On 12/7/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote:=20


      And (in case people need it spelling out) Turf not having his =
suspicions raised (what's his justification for knowing BTW, following =
known pacted adventurers?) until a later in-game date is trivial.

    It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask him.

    As for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is =
that the current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during =
their recent adventure.=20


    =20
  So if your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to=20

   "In game terms, has anything happened in the last season re the =
building marked as 'Temple of Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish) =
published on the Wiki??"
  i.e. a party went up to it and knocked on the door/window/back way in.


  If Turf knows about this, and is reacting to this knowledge, then =
in-game the options are different (or at least there are different =
amounts of back-story being broken if we fiddle with it.)

  If Terry is having Turf react to info that he thinks Turf learnt some =
other undefined way, then the vaguely defined act of learning hasn't =
happened yet (if it is best for the campaign that it hasn't).




  Note I'm talking about the pros and cons of different options here, =
not specifying that one particular option is taken.

  Errol
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>It doesn't matter where =
Turf came by=20
the information, although in this case he came by it perfectly =
legitimately. But=20
even if he hadn't, the fact is he has the information and reasonably can =
be=20
expected to act on it. Out of character knowledge can only be suppressed =
within=20
a game by a GM and most sensible GMs will alter the story line to =
accommodate=20
the knowledge rather than suppress it. In rare circumstances you might =
tell the=20
players they cant act on some piece of out of character knowledge one of =
them=20
has just blurted out to the entire party as it directly attacks the =
world or=20
the&nbsp;current game your running. But as a rule you would just nod =
sagely=20
while making the mental adjustments to your story line and carry on. =
If&nbsp;I=20
couldn't make the adjustments on the spot as it requires more time than =
I have=20
at the moment then I would simply delay the party in some manner and =
think about=20
it later once the nights game had ended. A week is plenty of time to =
come up=20
with a solution that's reasonable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>Michael =
Young</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>P.S. This is 14 point =
Arial font and=20
you'll just have to live with it. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Decavit@tollnz.co.nz =
href=3D"mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">Errol Cavit</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 07, =
2005 1:38=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Another=20
  Compromise.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Martin Dickson=20
    [mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 7 =
December 2005=20
    12:55<BR><B>To:</B> <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
    [dq] Another Compromise.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 12/7/05, <B=20
    class=3Dgmail_sendername>Errol Cavit</B> &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:=20
    <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
      <DIV></DIV><BR>
      <DIV><SPAN><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>And (in =
case people need=20
      it spelling out) Turf not having his suspicions raised (what's his =

      justification for knowing BTW, following known pacted =
adventurers?) until=20
      a later in-game date is trivial.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV><BR>It may not be trivial to Terry -- we'd have t ask =
him.<BR><BR>As=20
    for how it all came up, my (possibly incorrect) understanding is =
that the=20
    current "Heroes of the Dark Circle" sought aid there during their =
recent=20
    adventure. <BR></DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><BR><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>So=20
  if your understanding is correct, that would be a "YES" to</FONT>=20
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>&nbsp;"</SPAN>In game terms, =
has=20
  anything happened in the last season re the building marked as 'Temple =
of=20
  Seir' on the Seagate map recently (-ish)&nbsp;published on the =
Wiki??<SPAN=20
  class=3D299191300-07122005>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>i.e. a party went up to it =
and knocked=20
  on the door/window/back way =
in.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>If Turf knows about this, =
and is=20
  reacting to this knowledge, then in-game the options are different (or =
at=20
  least there are different amounts of back-story being broken if we =
fiddle with=20
  it.)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>If Terry is having Turf =
react to info=20
  that he thinks Turf learnt some other undefined way, then the vaguely =
defined=20
  act of learning hasn't happened yet (if it is best for the campaign =
that it=20
  hasn't).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D299191300-07122005>Note I'm talking about the =
pros and cons=20
  of different options here, not specifying that one particular option =
is=20
  taken.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D989403022-06122005><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D299191300-07122005>Errol</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>=
</SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromMichael Scott
DateWed, 07 Dec 2005 14:38:54 +1300
Time for all those Guild Assassins to ern a few quid and prove thier 
reputations are deserved.

Master Assassin Phaton, how much to remove the head of the Michaeline Order?
Can I afford you?
Can I get a bulk discount?

TTFN
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming


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SubjectRe: [dq] Demonic Church + Ducal Decree
FromMichael Parkinson
DateWed, 7 Dec 2005 15:13:13 +1300
Sorry if this repeats what others have said [too many emails to wade through, still].  However I would heartily endorse Zane's posting.  

> 1> The duke wants to avoid conflict occuring in the
> heart of seagate while he battles the DC.
[...]
> 4> The Temple offered to add substantial monetary
> contributions to assist in the Duke's reign, with
> agreements to not do any overtly evil acts.

Or, perhaps the priest-in-charge is hit with an inordinately large fine for running an unlicensed bawdy house & then purchases said licence.

This has the advantage of giving the Duke money, without appearing to be bribed & reassures the Pollies that 
1) They were right ... wickedness was being done, but 
2) fortunately nothing as evil as was feared (exsanguinated grannies, etc).
3) The wicked have been punished.
4) A stern example has been made for other Poddies.
5) The Duke will not tolerate open acts of evil or excessive violence.

Conversely the Seirites can arrange for sufficient Showers of money to pay the fine ...


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Subject[dq] The Guild and The follow on.
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 15:34:31 +1300
Hi all,

Im in favour of William just running a PBeM and seeing what comes of it. I
expect that the PBeM will develop into a full game with many cans of warms
being opened and lots of problems coming to a head of some sort.

The base problem is we have a structure that all of us must belong too as
Characters that tolerates a wide range of Characters that are at odds
sometimes with other guild Characters. Not only that but you are also
dealing with a large group of Characters that are into violence to resolve
what they believe (rightly or wrongly) fundamental differences of belief.

We have something in game which makes some characters behaviour in a odd
way. This is because we do not address the issues at the player level which
I think we should such as;
We as players do not kill/hurt/steal etc from other players characters as
its often not fun, so we dont do it within the game.

But then again the guild has been around for a long time and mostly done a
good job.

Jonathan Bean


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SubjectRe: [dq] Another Compromise.
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateThu, 8 Dec 2005 16:47:20 +1300
I think you get a free fish when you employ Master Assassin Phaton.

Kind regards,

Jonathan Bean

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Michael Scott
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 2:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Another Compromise.


Time for all those Guild Assassins to ern a few quid and prove thier
reputations are deserved.

Master Assassin Phaton, how much to remove the head of the Michaeline Order?
Can I afford you?
Can I get a bulk discount?

TTFN
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Find the coolest online games @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming


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