Messages for 12 December 2005

Subject	[dq-announce] Wiki Access and Users
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:57:52 +1300 (NZDT)
The previous settings did not block the spammers so the security setup has been changed again. Read only access for users not logged in has been restored. But only sysops/admins can create new users. Currently this is Keith, Mandos, Martin, Michael P, and me. Hopefully soon we can find the setting that blocks anon users but allows logged in users to create logins. Cheers, Stephen. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq-announce] Guild Meeting Minutes - Summer 06
From	Keith Smith
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:23:44 +1300
<html> <body> <div align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=6>Seagate Adventurer’s Guild<br> </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=4><b>Guild Meeting Minutes<br> </b>Summer 806WK<br><br> </div> 0) <b>Pre Guild meeting minutes<br><br> </b>a) The GM’s Guild is published and printed copies were available at the meeting. The PDF version should be posted in a couple of weeks.<br><br> b) No nominations for Star of Alusia<br><br> c) January 15</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2><sup>th</sup></font> <font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=4> is the deadline for rule changes.<br><br> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dl> <dd>d) Voting issues: (ref Wiki entry, rule changes Dec 05)<x-tab> </x-tab><br> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl> </dl><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) Namer True Seeing. Clerification on spell - Carried<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>ii) Binder and Illusion Perminenct Rituals - Carried<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iii) Golem weights - Carried<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iv) Armourer formula fix - Carried<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>v) Overstrengthing increasing fumble risk - Lost<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>vi) Allowing new Rune mages to be generated and add warning - Carried<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>vii) Allowing alternate spec grev tables - Carried<br><br> e) Examples in weaponsmith rules are to be changed to match the formulas<br><br> f) Bernard writing a proposal on Elementals for voting next session.<br><br> 1) <b>Guild meeting Minutes<br><br> </b>a) Wegan awarded Liessa a special award for her heroic acts in defeating Rashak as well as free Guild services in perpetuity. <br><br> b) <u>Adventures Going Out<br><br> </u><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) <i>A tall human priest</i>. His temple has been desecrated and he wants to know who did it. The temple is to Gaap (one of the 72). The payment is 100 goats per adventurer. A rival group is against them. Zane. Lowish, Any day except Tuesday.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>ii) <i>Richard</i> who works for a Titan in the Lunar Empire. He requires warrior types to help in dealings. Jono, Tuesdays, Med/high.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iii) <i>Marvin the Jester</i> has lost his Duke. The Duke was last seen on a hunting trip and a party is required to go find him. Bernard, Thursdays, Medium/competent.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iv) <i>McBright</i>. He is creating a masterwork and wants people to come along and help i.e. sculptors, poets, etc. Is making something to clean up the undead. Gorden, Medium/highish, Tuesdays.<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab><br> c) <u>Smartest Adventurer Award<br><br> </u><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) <i>Loxi</i> - A certain person had to be disposed of. Loxi came up with a rather complex plan which did the job.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>Winner - <b>No vote.<br><br> </b>d) <u>Bravest Adventurer Award<br><br> </u><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) <i>Amber</i> - sticking to her word of hellfiring anyone who became possessed by weapons of mass destruction and acting against the party interests.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>ii) <i>Ayren</i> - being held in duress vile, against his will, in a boudoir<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iii) <i>Cypriano</i> - looting a god while he was being attacked by another god<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iv) <i>Gok</i> - going to talk to someone in order to get him to attack Gok in a rage.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>v) <i>Liessa</i> - charging in and sticking Rashak with a pin<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>Winner - <b>Gok<br><br> </b>e) <u>Stupidest Adventurer Award<br><br> </u><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) <i>Gok</i> - trying to bring magic to a sword fight, especially when he had cold iron on him.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>ii) <i>Kern</i> (see SGT) - when meeting some important fae, tried to work up a special courtly greeting. He eventually came up with “Hello”.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iii) <i>Robert</i> - The party were in a room and being repeatedly hit by nasty necromantic magic. They all had to answer a riddle to get through the door to safety but, three times, Rober stood there and did nothing even though he knew the answer.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iv) <i>Amber</i> - Silverfoam received an extra point of MA so Amber proceeded to remove it.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>Winner - <b>Robert<br><br> </b>f) <u>Best death<br> </u>Rashak was nominated but she wasn’t a guild member. No other nomination were forwarded.<br><br> g) <u>Other Business<br><br> </u><x-tab>        </x-tab>i) A straw poll taken decided that the current hall is to be used next year<br> <x-tab>        </x-tab><x-tab>         </x-tab><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>ii) Mortimer announced an employment opportunity for a Master Merchant. It had to be discrete, as is in an advisory role. <br>  <br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iii) There were items for sale. The first is an amulet that slows lesser undead, the second a gem called ‘Shadow of the Night’ that reduces light levels around it<br>  <br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>iv) Battlecry is in February, 11th-12th.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>v) It is aimed to get out a new rulebook by March next year.<br><br> <x-tab>        </x-tab>vi) The new Players Guide is to be posted as a PDF.<br><br> <br> Session Closed - Thanks to ‘Ye Golden Ingot’ for providing the librations during the meeting<br><br> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br> </font></div> </body> </html> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq-announce] An addition to the minutes
From	Keith Smith
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:28:27 +1300
Also announced at the meeting: >Madame du Lally (an alias) would like to hire a party to help her >re-assemble her nephew, preferably before her sister returns. She >has Sir Pru's physical body, but needs the thing-bit that goes >inside. Given how successful the Moskadan mission was, she would >like potential applicants to see Motley first, to be vetted -- >meaning examined, not operated on. > >[Level: technically god-bothering] (courtesy of Michael P - this adventure was prearranged but would have been announced) Keith -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq-announce] Guild Meeting Minutes - Summer 06
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:57:26 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FE9D.DF9CCFE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Keith Smith Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 10:24 To: dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq-announce] Guild Meeting Minutes - Summer 06 Seagate Adventurer's Guild Guild Meeting Minutes Summer 806WK 0) Pre Guild meeting minutes a) The GM's Guild is published and printed copies were available at the meeting. The PDF version should be posted in a couple of weeks. b) No nominations for Star of Alusia c) January 15th is the deadline for rule changes. [Errol Cavit] The rule changes below are the last ones that will be in the March 2006 rulebook. Timeline for publication: All rule changes written up as detailed text for the rulebook via the Wiki by January 15th. Other Rulebook text changes written up by Feb 15th. Conversion of already-written text changes to pdf follows, with printing and binding for those that want it before Guild Meeting (assumed to be March 12th.) Errol Cavit is editor (not that anyone knows exactly what that means :-) d) Voting issues: (ref Wiki entry, rule changes Dec 05) i) Namer True Seeing. Clerification on spell - Carried ii) Binder and Illusion Perminenct Rituals - Carried iii) Golem weights - Carried iv) Armourer formula fix - Carried v) Overstrengthing increasing fumble risk - Lost vi) Allowing new Rune mages to be generated and add warning - Carried vii) Allowing alternate spec grev tables - Carried [Errol Cavit] Note that implementation of this may differ from the proposal's exact wording. e) Examples in weaponsmith rules are to be changed to match the formulas f) Bernard writing a proposal on Elementals for voting next session. 1) Guild meeting Minutes a) Wegan awarded Liessa a special award for her heroic acts in defeating Rashak as well as free Guild services in perpetuity. b) Adventures Going Out i) A tall human priest. His temple has been desecrated and he wants to know who did it. The temple is to Gaap (one of the 72). The payment is 100 goats per adventurer. A rival group is against them. Zane. Lowish, Any day except Tuesday. ii) Richard who works for a Titan in the Lunar Empire. He requires warrior types to help in dealings. Jono, Tuesdays, Med/high. iii) Marvin the Jester has lost his Duke. The Duke was last seen on a hunting trip and a party is required to go find him. Bernard, Thursdays, Medium/competent. iv) McBright. He is creating a masterwork and wants people to come along and help i.e. sculptors, poets, etc. Is making something to clean up the undead. Gorden, Medium/highish, Tuesdays. c) Smartest Adventurer Award i) Loxi - A certain person had to be disposed of. Loxi came up with a rather complex plan which did the job. Winner - No vote. d) Bravest Adventurer Award i) Amber - sticking to her word of hellfiring anyone who became possessed by weapons of mass destruction and acting against the party interests. ii) Ayren - being held in duress vile, against his will, in a boudoir iii) Cypriano - looting a god while he was being attacked by another god iv) Gok - going to talk to someone in order to get him to attack Gok in a rage. v) Liessa - charging in and sticking Rashak with a pin Winner - Gok e) Stupidest Adventurer Award i) Gok - trying to bring magic to a sword fight, especially when he had cold iron on him. ii) Kern (see SGT) - when meeting some important fae, tried to work up a special courtly greeting. He eventually came up with "Hello". iii) Robert - The party were in a room and being repeatedly hit by nasty necromantic magic. They all had to answer a riddle to get through the door to safety but, three times, Rober stood there and did nothing even though he knew the answer. iv) Amber - Silverfoam received an extra point of MA so Amber proceeded to remove it. Winner - Robert f) Best death Rashak was nominated but she wasn't a guild member. No other nomination were forwarded. g) Other Business i) A straw poll taken decided that the current hall is to be used next year ii) Mortimer announced an employment opportunity for a Master Merchant. It had to be discrete, as is in an advisory role. iii) There were items for sale. The first is an amulet that slows lesser undead, the second a gem called 'Shadow of the Night' that reduces light levels around it iv) Battlecry is in February, 11th-12th. v) It is aimed to get out a new rulebook by March next year. vi) The new Players Guide is to be posted as a PDF. Session Closed - Thanks to 'Ye Golden Ingot' for providing the librations during the meeting -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FE9D.DF9CCFE6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-announce-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Keith Smith<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 12 December 2005 10:24<BR><B>To:</B> dq-announce@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq-announce] Guild Meeting Minutes - Summer 06<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" size=6>Seagate Adventurer's Guild<BR></FONT><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" size=4><B>Guild Meeting Minutes<BR></B>Summer 806WK<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV>0) <B>Pre Guild meeting minutes<BR><BR></B>a) The GM's Guild is published and printed copies were available at the meeting. The PDF version should be posted in a couple of weeks.<BR><BR>b) No nominations for Star of Alusia<BR><BR>c) January 15</FONT><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2><SUP>th</SUP></FONT> <FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial>is the deadline for rule changes.<BR><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>[Errol Cavit] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>The rule changes below are the last ones that will be in the March 2006 rulebook.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Timeline for publication:</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>All rule changes written up as detailed text for the rulebook via the Wiki by January 15th.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Other Rulebook text changes written up by Feb 15th.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Conversion of already-written text changes to pdf follows, with printing and binding for those that want it before Guild Meeting (assumed to be March 12th.)</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>Errol Cavit is editor (not that anyone knows exactly what that means :-)</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>  </FONT></SPAN>d) Voting issues: (ref Wiki entry, rule changes Dec 05)<X-TAB> </X-TAB><BR></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid"><X-TAB><FONT face=Arial>        </X-TAB>i) Namer True Seeing. Clerification on spell - Carried<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>ii) Binder and Illusion Perminenct Rituals - Carried<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iii) Golem weights - Carried<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iv) Armourer formula fix - Carried<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>v) Overstrengthing increasing fumble risk - Lost<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>vi) Allowing new Rune mages to be generated and add warning - Carried<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>vii) Allowing alternate spec grev tables - Carried<BR><SPAN class=062283421-11122005><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>                [Errol Cavit] Note that implementation of this may differ from the proposal's exact wording.</FONT></SPAN><BR><BR>e) Examples in weaponsmith rules are to be changed to match the formulas<BR><BR>f) Bernard writing a proposal on Elementals for voting next session.<BR><BR>1) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><B>Guild meeting Minutes<BR><BR></B>a) Wegan awarded Liessa a special award for her heroic acts in defeating Rashak as well as free Guild services in perpetuity. <BR><BR>b) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Adventures Going Out<BR><BR></U><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>i) <I>A tall human priest</I>. His temple has been desecrated and he wants to know who did it. The temple is to Gaap (one of the 72). The payment is 100 goats per adventurer. A rival group is against them. Zane. Lowish, Any day except Tuesday.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>ii) <I>Richard</I> who works for a Titan in the Lunar Empire. He requires warrior types to help in dealings. Jono, Tuesdays, Med/high.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iii) <I>Marvin the Jester</I> has lost his Duke. The Duke was last seen on a hunting trip and a party is required to go find him. Bernard, Thursdays, Medium/competent.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iv) <I>McBright</I>. He is creating a masterwork and wants people to come along and help i.e. sculptors, poets, etc. Is making something to clean up the undead. Gorden, Medium/highish, Tuesdays.<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB><BR>c) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Smartest Adventurer Award<BR><BR></U><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>i) <I>Loxi</I> - A certain person had to be disposed of. Loxi came up with a rather complex plan which did the job.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>Winner - </FONT><FONT face=Arial><B>No vote.<BR><BR></B>d) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Bravest Adventurer Award<BR><BR></U><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>i) <I>Amber</I> - sticking to her word of hellfiring anyone who became possessed by weapons of mass destruction and acting against the party interests.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>ii) <I>Ayren</I> - being held in duress vile, against his will, in a boudoir<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iii) <I>Cypriano</I> - looting a god while he was being attacked by another god<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iv) <I>Gok</I> - going to talk to someone in order to get him to attack Gok in a rage.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>v) <I>Liessa</I> - charging in and sticking Rashak with a pin<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>Winner - </FONT><FONT face=Arial><B>Gok<BR><BR></B>e) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Stupidest Adventurer Award<BR><BR></U><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>i) <I>Gok</I> - trying to bring magic to a sword fight, especially when he had cold iron on him.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>ii) <I>Kern</I> (see SGT) - when meeting some important fae, tried to work up a special courtly greeting. He eventually came up with "Hello".<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iii) <I>Robert</I> - The party were in a room and being repeatedly hit by nasty necromantic magic. They all had to answer a riddle to get through the door to safety but, three times, Rober stood there and did nothing even though he knew the answer.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iv) <I>Amber</I> - Silverfoam received an extra point of MA so Amber proceeded to remove it.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>Winner - </FONT><FONT face=Arial><B>Robert<BR><BR></B>f) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Best death<BR></U>Rashak was nominated but she wasn't a guild member. No other nomination were forwarded.<BR><BR>g) </FONT><FONT face=Arial><U>Other Business<BR><BR></U><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>i) A straw poll taken decided that the current hall is to be used next year<BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB><X-TAB>         </X-TAB><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>ii) Mortimer announced an employment opportunity for a Master Merchant. It had to be discrete, as is in an advisory role. <BR> <BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iii) There were items for sale. The first is an amulet that slows lesser undead, the second a gem called 'Shadow of the Night' that reduces light levels around it<BR> <BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>iv) Battlecry is in February, 11th-12th.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>v) It is aimed to get out a new rulebook by March next year.<BR><BR><X-TAB>        </X-TAB>vi) The new Players Guide is to be posted as a PDF.<BR><BR><BR>Session Closed - Thanks to 'Ye Golden Ingot' for providing the librations during the meeting<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT></FONT> <DIV></DIV>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FE9D.DF9CCFE6-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-announce-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Jonathan Bean - TME
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:12:36 +1200
Hi all, Seems to me that a few of the 'high end' spells are broken. Of note the spells I am talking about are: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire. Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option other than lowering damage or turning them into single target spells. Seems to me that the options are: You do not agree it is a problem, Ignore the problem as (to hard to fix/you don't care), Reduce the number of targets with the spells to single targets, Lower the damage on the spells, Remove the spells. I would like to also offer these options for consideration: Keep the current number of targets and damage as it is written now and put a minimum range of 5 hexes and/or +5 on the dice per target over 1. Minimum Range: I would like to see what people think of other options such as a dead zone, in effect a minimum range that the spell works at, so you would not be able to cast on targets within that range. I think the range should be 5 hexes, or 25 feet. I think this would sometimes (cities, forests, inside) mean that enermy would be within the range of the spell, and the caster would need another spell to use on them. This would allow some control from GMs when planning and running encounters, but would create a demand by players to have fast movement mages. It would also add to the effectiveness of fighter types. +5 on dice per target over 1: I would like to also see what people think about +5 on the cast chance dice per target above the first. Again this would mean that as you add targets you would remove the effects of doubles and tripples and open up the chance of back fires. This would give the player options with consiquences. The real question is: Is the perserved problem worth the pain of fixing it? and are people willing to fix it? (what ever the fix is). Kind regards Jonathan -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:27:01 +1300
> Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option > other than lowering damage or turning them into single target spells. Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis and had it rewritten. I concour and think there is a problem. I believe that there are 4 components to a damage spell. Range Damage Multitarget Resist for half Our problem is that all four of these components are in the broken spells. I think the spells should be broken up so that there are a couple of spells that have two of these components. Eg. One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half with a moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist for none to lots of targets at long range. Or something along those lines. This encourages mages to use a range of spells in combat instead of the one big blast spell. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	RPer 4eva
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:15:04 +1300
------=_Part_257_20659183.1134346504400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the revisions to the Namers True sight since I have that spell. Dylan ------=_Part_257_20659183.1134346504400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline <div>How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the revisions to= the Namers True sight since I have that spell.</div> <div> </div> <div>Dylan</div> ------=_Part_257_20659183.1134346504400-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	ian at dawn haven
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:20:16 +1300
Hope you are immune to hellfire Mandos, 'cause I know a witch that just looves it the way it is. :-D Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > Mandos Mitchinson > Sent: 12 December 2005 12:27 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? > > > Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option > > other than lowering damage or turning them into single target spells. > > Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis and had it > rewritten. > > I concour and think there is a problem. > > I believe that there are 4 components to a damage spell. > > Range > Damage > Multitarget > Resist for half > > Our problem is that all four of these components are in the broken > spells. I think the spells should be broken up so that there are a > couple of spells that have two of these components. > > Eg. > One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half with a > moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist for none to > lots of targets at long range. > > Or something along those lines. > > This encourages mages to use a range of spells in combat instead of the > one big blast spell. > > Mandos > /s > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Archives and Rule changes
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:25:37 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEB2.92FCAC96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In this instance what you probably want is the Rules pages on the Wiki. http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes <http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Changes <http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Changes> The e-list archives are at e.g. http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/2005/2005-12/ <http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/2005/2005-12/> (is there an access to this that is friendlier than starting at http://dq.sf.org.nz/ <http://dq.sf.org.nz/> ?) Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 13:15 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the revisions to the Namers True sight since I have that spell. Dylan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEB2.92FCAC96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In=20 this instance what you probably want is the Rules pages on the=20 Wiki.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Chan= ges">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes= </A></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Cha= nges">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Chang= es</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The=20 e-list archives are at e.g.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/2005/2005-12/">http://dq.sf.org.nz/a= rchive/2005/2005-12/</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(is=20 there an access to this that is friendlier than starting at <A=20 href=3D"http://dq.sf.org.nz/">http://dq.sf.org.nz/</A> = ?)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D270152000-12122005><FONT face=3DArial = color=3D#0000ff=20 size=3D2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20 [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> RPer = 4eva<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Monday, 12 December 2005 13:15<BR><B>To:</B>=20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, = Whirlwind=20 Vortex and Hellfire?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the = revisions to=20 the Namers True sight since I have that spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dylan</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEB2.92FCAC96-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Jonathan Bean - TME
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:21:34 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5FF1E.F940C340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to: http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/ And you are able to read older posts. Kind regards, Jonathan Bean -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of RPer 4eva Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 12:15 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the revisions to the Namers True sight since I have that spell. Dylan ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5FF1E.F940C340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1522" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Go=20 to:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/">http://dq.sf.org.nz/archive/</A></F= ONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>And=20 you are able to read older posts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Kind=20 regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D478582001-12122005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Jonathan Bean</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> = dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20 [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>RPer = 4eva<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Monday, 12 December 2005 12:15 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20 dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, = Whirlwind=20 Vortex and Hellfire?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>How do I read past posts? I'm particuly interested in the = revisions to=20 the Namers True sight since I have that spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dylan</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C5FF1E.F940C340-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] GM Guide 2005
From	Jonathan Bean - TME
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:01:36 +1200
Hi All, Thank you to all that contributed to the DQ GM Guide 2005. Thank you all for the excellent work some people put in and of note: Andrew Withy fine editing. We have one copy left of the 20 printed if anyone is still looking for one please contact me. I expect the PDF version will be in primo shape in a couple of weeks and ready for downloading. I expect that a new verion due out in "December 2011" (by our current track record) will be excellent, come on DVD and be fully interactive by that stage with a talking interactive GM helper :-) Kind regards, Jonathan Bean -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:17:48 +1300
Yes, Ian, but, aside from the interests of an affected party, George's point is well made. You might not agree with his syntax for what constitutes a spell, mind you. When a spell provides lots of advantages in one sequence of actions, then it really wouldn't matter what the exp mult would be (well, almost). A player would advance it to the point where it was castable. Drama is engaged in a game when a player has to wager that the decision that they are making is the right one. With HF, Necrosis and WV, it is a very rare situation where they AREN'T the right decision, or at least very close to it. These spells do damage even when resisted, and they affect multiple targets. The circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference to Hellfire are pretty unusual. Jim Quoting ian at dawn haven <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz>: > Hope you are immune to hellfire Mandos, 'cause I know a witch that just > looves it the way it is. :-D > > Ian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of > > Mandos Mitchinson > > Sent: 12 December 2005 12:27 > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? > > > > > Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option > > > other than lowering damage or turning them into single target spells. > > > > Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis and had it > > rewritten. > > > > I concour and think there is a problem. > > > > I believe that there are 4 components to a damage spell. > > > > Range > > Damage > > Multitarget > > Resist for half > > > > Our problem is that all four of these components are in the broken > > spells. I think the spells should be broken up so that there are a > > couple of spells that have two of these components. > > > > Eg. > > One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half with a > > moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist for none to > > lots of targets at long range. > > > > Or something along those lines. > > > > This encourages mages to use a range of spells in combat instead of the > > one big blast spell. > > > > Mandos > > /s > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Andrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:26:39 +1300
"No one was ever fired for casting Hellfire (at the enemy)." If you have a single big blast spell (and it affects the enemy), then the only decision in the combat is when to stop casting & drink or distribute potions of various sorts. No matter what happens, you can do the "right" thing in your sleep. This might be good for the non-tactical of us, but its SUCH a right thing that it's a problem. It's a little like (medium) E&Es who know their first 8 actions will be Quicken, Slow, Slow, Sleep. Except that they have a choice - enhance or slow or sleep or bolt or ... On the surface, I think I like the idea of reducing the effect by splitting the spell into two different sorts based on components as outlined by Mandos - range, damage, resist-for-half, multi-target. I'm keen to hear other options, though. Not keen on having these components variable at runtime - "I cast with the extra damage and targets turned on this pulse" Andrew -----Original Message----- When a spell provides lots of advantages in one sequence of actions, then it really wouldn't matter what the exp mult would be (well, almost). A player would advance it to the point where it was castable. Drama is engaged in a game when a player has to wager that the decision that they are making is the right one. With HF, Necrosis and WV, it is a very rare situation where they AREN'T the right decision, or at least very close to it. These spells do damage even when resisted, and they affect multiple targets. The circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference to Hellfire are pretty unusual. Jim -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Mandos Mitchinson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:30:23 +1300
> On the surface, I think I like the idea of reducing the > effect by splitting the spell into two different sorts based > on components as outlined by Mandos - range, damage, > resist-for-half, multi-target. I'm keen to hear other > options, though. Not keen on having these components variable > at runtime - "I cast with the extra damage and targets turned > on this pulse" Just to clarify, I wans't suggesting that we make spells where you can elect choices. While I think it is a cool idea, it means there is still only one spell to cast and I would prefer to see come varience. The intention was that we get rid of one big spell and make two little spells. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:40:12 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEC5.600195FA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of > Mandos Mitchinson > Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 12:27 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex > and Hellfire? > > > > Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option > > other than lowering damage or turning them into single > target spells. > > Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis and had it > rewritten. > > I concour and think there is a problem. > > I believe that there are 4 components to a damage spell. > > Range > Damage > Multitarget > Resist for half > > Our problem is that all four of these components are in the broken > spells. I think the spells should be broken up so that there are a > couple of spells that have two of these components. > > Eg. > One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half with a > moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist for none to > lots of targets at long range. > > Or something along those lines. > > This encourages mages to use a range of spells in combat > instead of the > one big blast spell. > Good points. Note that damage spells can have other limitations that have a significant impact on their usefulness. E.G. Necrosis won't affect some targets (i.e. living ones). I suspect that this means that GMs change the make-up of the opposition to Necros with Necrosis where it fits with the storyline, and/or interpret this limitation strictly - this as a reaction to a spell preceived as too powerful. Cheers Errol ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEC5.600195FA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2658.2"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and = Hellfire?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O= n Behalf Of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Mandos Mitchinson</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 12:27</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, = Whirlwind Vortex </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> and Hellfire?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > Most people tend to agree, but no one has = offered an option </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> > other than lowering damage or turning them = into single </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> target spells.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Note Possible conflict of interset - I had = Necrosis and had it</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> rewritten.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> I concour and think there is a problem. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> I believe that there are 4 components to a = damage spell.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Range</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Damage</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Multitarget</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Resist for half</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Our problem is that all four of these = components are in the broken</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> spells. I think the spells should be broken up = so that there are a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> couple of spells that have two of these = components. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Eg. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> One Spell that has single target lots of damage = resist for half with a</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> moderate range and One that does moderate = damamge resist for none to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> lots of targets at long range. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Or something along those lines. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> This encourages mages to use a range of spells = in combat </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> instead of the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> one big blast spell. </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Good points.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Note that damage spells can have other limitations = that have a significant impact on their usefulness. E.G. Necrosis won't = affect some targets (i.e. living ones). I suspect that this means that = GMs change the make-up of the opposition to Necros with Necrosis where = it fits with the storyline, and/or interpret this limitation strictly - = this as a reaction to a spell preceived as too powerful.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FEC5.600195FA-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Namer Spell list
From	Jonathan Bean - TME
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:05:48 +1200
Hi All, Please note: I play a Namer. I as a GM would like to see the Guide not teach the following spells (have the teacher die, get a new teacher without them - whatever it takes). Bane S1, Spell Barrier S9. I would also like to see which PC Namers currently have then and see how much trouble it would be to 'un-learn' them if possible. I think these spells are too tough and change the nature and balance of the game. I think these spells also change the nature of Namers to dramatically and should be moved to Quest level spells. I think a general nurfing of the new Namer stuff is needed, or if no nurfing is needed a re-balance of the GK spell EMs. Kind regards, Jonathan Bean -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Pending Rules Changes updated in Wiki
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:13:43 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECA.0EE5D29E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, I've updated the Pending Rules Changes page http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes <http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes> for the changes voted in December Meeting. Can someone please verify I haven't made any mistakes before deleting passed items from the Proposed page http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Changes <http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Changes> Feel free to do any specifying of exact wording that is required. Note that making changes on the master document is much easier if we have the old text as well as the new text. I'll organise things a bit better tonight ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECA.0EE5D29E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1491" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>Hi=20 all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D659491200-12122005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>I've=20 updated the Pending Rules Changes page <A=20 href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Chan= ges">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes= </A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>for=20 the changes voted in December Meeting.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D659491200-12122005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>Can=20 someone please verify I haven't made any mistakes before deleting = passed items=20 from the Proposed page <A=20 href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Cha= nges">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Proposed_Rule_Chang= es</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D659491200-12122005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D659491200-12122005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>Feel=20 free to do any specifying of exact wording that is required. Note that = making=20 changes on the master document is much easier if we have the old text = as well as=20 the new text.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D659491200-12122005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D659491200-12122005>I'll=20 organise things a bit better tonight</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECA.0EE5D29E-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Gordon Lewis
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:18:29 +1300
"The intention was that we get rid of one big spell and make two little spells." Something like:- "Summon the fires of hell" and "Let loose the fires of hell" to be cast one after the other? -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of Mandos Mitchinson Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 3:30 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? > On the surface, I think I like the idea of reducing the > effect by splitting the spell into two different sorts based > on components as outlined by Mandos - range, damage, > resist-for-half, multi-target. I'm keen to hear other > options, though. Not keen on having these components variable > at runtime - "I cast with the extra damage and targets turned > on this pulse" Just to clarify, I wans't suggesting that we make spells where you can elect choices. While I think it is a cool idea, it means there is still only one spell to cast and I would prefer to see come varience. Mandos /s -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Simpson
From	\ Mark\ \(NZ\)
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:23:39 +1300
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECB.71EB836B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem is that hellfire and harm entity cost exactly the same = amount of fatigue (and time) to cast, usually two (unless im miss = remembering and harm entity is a general). The fact that the em may = differ considerably is fairly inconsequential. A mage with rank 20 = hellfire and 26 fatigue can gun off 13 different 7 target hellfire's for = some ungodly amount of damage (even more obscene when partnered with a = decent EE who first quickens the wiccan/fire mage, then puts down a = damage enhance, i.e. TDP and Amber in my last adventure - take 96 or = resist at -25% for 48, rinse and repeat every pulse). =20 DQ has all specials cost 2 fatigue and try's to balance this out through = the cost of acquiring the spell (money) and the em (basically play = time). EM and money are never a good balancing mechanism IMHO, = especially by the time characters have been around sufficiently long = enough to be considered "medium" or "high". In fact I hate money being = used as any sort of game balancing mechanism, given how seemingly = haphazardly it can be given out. Making a spell cost 20,000 to buy does = nothing but randomly reward players who either get like in treasure = halls or annoy gm's into allowing some side money making schemes in = adventures. Basically rank determines everything (cast chance, range, duration and = damage) and its the only real variable. Cast time and fatigue cost are = almost totally static (and if changed are changed for all spells - eg = high mana zone, quickened or slowed). Yet its only a matter of time till = rank is maximised, and then you can start laying waste to (small) = armies. Two problems with the DQ magic system as far as I am concerned are: 1. Binary Nature of resists - most spells in DQ either have full effect = (failed resisted) or no effect (successful resist). Big baddies, = especially "end bosses" tend to have pretty good resists and gm's are = unlikely to have them fail to resist a mental attack (or sleep or = similar) at the start of pulse one of the "big final combat". This makes = the "-25 resist" and "resist for half" spells even more "the right move" = 99.9% of the time; 2. Uniform Fatigue costs - All specials cost 2 fatigue regardless of the = power of the spell. This encourages min/maxing your character's spells, = as on adventure you expend the same resources (2 pulses and 2 fatigue) = for any special spell. I'd love to see some DQ spells have their damage = based on the amount of fatigue you put in. Taken the whole way, damage = for one of these multi-target spells could be d10 + an additional 2pts = of damage for each extra fatigue or something along those lines. More = simply just make these spell cost an additional fatigue per 4 (or = fraction) ranks (remembering you can choose to down rank to pay less = fatigue). Hence rank 20 hellfire would cost you seven fatigue.=20 Some additional possible limitations for the spells listed: 1. Make the caster have to nominate a main target and all other target = must be within, say, rank feet of the primary target (or even within 5 = feet + (1/2 rank's) feet, i.e. 15 feet at rank 20). This means you can = minimise the effects of these spells by spreading out. 2. Allow doubles and triples for resists. Resist for half, double resist = for quarter, triple for no damage. 3. Allow a successful resist to make you immune from taking endurance = damage from these spell. 4. Have the caster have the option of less targets and reduction in = resist % or more targets and no resist reduction (perhaps for each = target forgone you get -5% on the resist). 5. Make the casting cost of these spells endurance instead of fatigue. = You are causing a lot of pain, to do so requires some of your = life-force. 6. Backfires automatically target yourself.=20 Sorry if that was a little disjointed. =20 Mark =20 -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [ mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 3:18 p.m. To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire? Yes, Ian, but, aside from the interests of an affected party, George's = point is well made. You might not agree with his syntax for what constitutes a = spell, mind you. When a spell provides lots of advantages in one sequence of actions, = then it really wouldn't matter what the exp mult would be (well, almost). A = player would advance it to the point where it was castable. Drama is engaged in a game when a player has to wager that the decision = that they are making is the right one. With HF, Necrosis and WV, it is a very = rare situation where they AREN'T the right decision, or at least very close = to it. These spells do damage even when resisted, and they affect multiple = targets. The circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference = to Hellfire are pretty unusual. Jim Quoting ian at dawn haven <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz>: > Hope you are immune to hellfire Mandos, 'cause I know a witch that = just > looves it the way it is. :-D > > Ian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [ mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On = Behalf Of > > Mandos Mitchinson > > Sent: 12 December 2005 12:27 > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > > Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and = Hellfire? > > > > > Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option > > > other than lowering damage or turning them into single target = spells. > > > > Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis and had it > > rewritten. > > > > I concour and think there is a problem. > > > > I believe that there are 4 components to a damage spell. > > > > Range > > Damage > > Multitarget > > Resist for half > > > > Our problem is that all four of these components are in the broken > > spells. I think the spells should be broken up so that there are a > > couple of spells that have two of these components. > > > > Eg. > > One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half with = a > > moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist for none to > > lots of targets at long range. > > > > Or something along those lines. > > > > This encourages mages to use a range of spells in combat instead of = the > > one big blast spell. > > > > Mandos > > /s > > > > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECB.71EB836B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT size=3D2>The problem is that hellfire and harm entity cost = exactly the=20 same amount of fatigue (and time) to cast, usually two (unless im miss=20 remembering and harm entity is a general). The fact that the em may = differ=20 considerably is fairly inconsequential. A mage with rank 20 hellfire and = 26=20 fatigue can gun off 13 different 7 target hellfire's for some ungodly = amount of=20 damage (even more obscene when partnered with a decent EE who first = quickens the=20 wiccan/fire mage, then puts down a damage enhance, i.e. TDP and Amber in = my last=20 adventure - take 96 or resist at -25% for 48, rinse and repeat every=20 pulse).  <BR><BR>DQ has all specials cost 2 fatigue and try's = to=20 balance this out through the cost of acquiring the spell (money) and the = em=20 (basically play time). EM and money are never a good balancing mechanism = IMHO,=20 especially by the time characters have been around sufficiently long = enough to=20 be considered "medium" or "high".  In fact I hate money being used = as any=20 sort of game balancing mechanism, given how seemingly haphazardly it can = be=20 given out. Making a spell cost 20,000 to buy does nothing but randomly = reward=20 players who  either get like in treasure halls or annoy gm's into = allowing=20 some side money making schemes in adventures.<BR><BR>Basically rank = determines=20 everything (cast chance, range, duration and damage) and its the only = real=20 variable. Cast time and fatigue cost are almost totally static (and if = changed=20 are changed for all spells - eg high mana zone, quickened or slowed). = Yet its=20 only a matter of time till rank is maximised, and then you can start = laying=20 waste to (small) armies.<BR><BR>Two problems with the DQ magic system as = far as=20 I am concerned are:<BR><BR>1. Binary Nature of resists - most spells in = DQ=20 either have full effect (failed resisted) or no effect (successful = resist). Big=20 baddies, especially "end bosses" tend to have pretty good resists and = gm's are=20 unlikely to have them fail to resist a mental attack (or sleep or = similar) at=20 the start of pulse one of the "big final combat". This makes the "-25 = resist"=20 and "resist for half" spells even more "the right move" 99.9% of the=20 time;<BR><BR>2. Uniform Fatigue costs - All specials cost 2 fatigue = regardless=20 of the power of the spell. This encourages min/maxing your character's = spells,=20 as on adventure you expend the same resources (2 pulses and 2 fatigue) = for any=20 special spell. I'd love to see some DQ spells have their damage based on = the=20 amount of fatigue you put in. Taken the whole way, damage for one of = these=20 multi-target spells could be d10 + an additional 2pts of damage for each = extra=20 fatigue or something along those lines. More simply just make these = spell cost=20 an additional fatigue per 4 (or fraction) ranks (remembering you can = choose to=20 down rank to pay less fatigue). Hence rank 20 hellfire would cost you = seven=20 fatigue. <BR><BR><BR><BR>Some additional possible limitations for = the=20 spells listed:<BR><BR>1. Make the caster have to nominate a main target = and all=20 other target must be within, say, rank feet of the primary target (or = even=20 within 5 feet + (1/2 rank's) feet, i.e. 15 feet at rank 20). This means = you can=20 minimise the effects of these spells by spreading out.<BR>2. Allow = doubles and=20 triples for resists. Resist for half, double resist for quarter, triple = for no=20 damage.<BR>3. Allow a successful resist to make you immune from taking = endurance=20 damage from these spell.<BR>4. Have the caster have the option of less = targets=20 and reduction in resist % or more targets and no resist reduction = (perhaps for=20 each target forgone you get -5% on the resist).<BR>5. Make the casting = cost of=20 these spells endurance instead of fatigue. You are causing a lot of = pain, to do=20 so requires some  of your life-force.<BR>6. Backfires automatically = target=20 yourself. <BR><BR>Sorry if that was a little disjointed.</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Mark</FONT></DIV> <P><BR>   <BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:=20 dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A=20 href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]On= Behalf=20 Of<BR>raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz<BR>Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 3:18=20 p.m.<BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, = Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?<BR><BR><BR>Yes, Ian, but, aside from the=20 interests of an affected party, George's point is<BR>well made. You = might not=20 agree with his syntax for what constitutes a spell,<BR>mind = you.<BR><BR>When a=20 spell provides lots of advantages in one sequence of actions, then = it<BR>really=20 wouldn't matter what the exp mult would be (well, almost). A = player<BR>would=20 advance it to the point where it was castable.<BR><BR>Drama is engaged = in a game=20 when a player has to wager that the decision that<BR>they are making is = the=20 right one. With HF, Necrosis and WV, it is a very rare<BR>situation = where they=20 AREN'T the right decision, or at least very close to it.<BR>These spells = do=20 damage even when resisted, and they affect multiple targets.<BR>The=20 circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference=20 to<BR>Hellfire are pretty unusual.<BR><BR>Jim<BR><BR>Quoting ian at dawn = haven=20 <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz>:<BR><BR>> Hope you are immune to = hellfire=20 Mandos, 'cause I know a witch that just<BR>> looves it the way it is. = :-D<BR>><BR>> Ian<BR>><BR>> > -----Original = Message-----<BR>>=20 > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A=20 href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] = On Behalf=20 Of<BR>> > Mandos Mitchinson<BR>> > Sent: 12 December 2005=20 12:27<BR>> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>> > Subject: Re: [dq] = Options=20 with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?<BR>> ><BR>> > = >=20 Most people tend to agree, but no one has offered an option<BR>> > = >=20 other than lowering damage or turning them into single target = spells.<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > Note Possible conflict of interset - I had Necrosis = and had=20 it<BR>> > rewritten.<BR>> ><BR>> > I concour and think = there=20 is a problem.<BR>> ><BR>> > I believe that there are 4 = components to=20 a damage spell.<BR>> ><BR>> > Range<BR>> > = Damage<BR>> >=20 Multitarget<BR>> > Resist for half<BR>> ><BR>> > Our = problem=20 is that all four of these components are in the broken<BR>> > = spells. I=20 think the spells should be broken up so that there are a<BR>> > = couple of=20 spells that have two of these components.<BR>> ><BR>> > = Eg.<BR>>=20 > One Spell that has single target lots of damage resist for half = with=20 a<BR>> > moderate range and One that does moderate damamge resist = for none=20 to<BR>> > lots of targets at long range.<BR>> ><BR>> > = Or=20 something along those lines.<BR>> ><BR>> > This encourages = mages to=20 use a range of spells in combat instead of the<BR>> > one big = blast=20 spell.<BR>> ><BR>> > Mandos<BR>> > /s<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 ><BR>> > -- to unsubscribe notify <A=20 href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A= >=20 --<BR>><BR>><BR>> -- to unsubscribe notify <A=20 href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A= >=20 --<BR>><BR><BR><BR>-- to unsubscribe notify <A=20 href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A= >=20 --<BR></P></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FECB.71EB836B-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Clare Baldock
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:29:05 +1300
On 12/12/2005, at 16:18, Gordon Lewis wrote: > "The intention was that we get rid of one big spell and make two little > spells." > > Something like:- "Summon the fires of hell" and "Let loose the fires of > hell" to be cast one after the other? No - just two different spells, one single target, the other multi target. The first gets the high damage and save for half, the second the large number of targets. Call them Hellstrike and Hellsinge. I note as an aside that Dark Celestials get a spell like the second, Blackfire, which is save for none, long range, multi target, and Ithilmor went out of her way to find a single target, save for half spell as she wanted to have two strings to her bow. Neither of them have the damage potential of Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex or Hellfire though. cheers, clare -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Namer Spell list - clearifaction
From	Jonathan Bean - TME
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:37:14 +1200
A couple of people asked so I figure I will add to my request: GK = general Knowledge spells, SK = special Knowledge spells. If the Namer SK spells are freely learnable from the guild (for cash) then, I think it changes the balance of the college a lot. If the SK spells and focus (that results from the spells are correct) then the old focus of the 100 and 200 EM GK spells value (being able to turn off one part [GK or SK] college at a time) has been reduced a lot and are no longer balanced (its the most expensive college in turms of Exp). I do not think it is wise that the focus move from needing to learn and rank around 12+ counter spells to be offensive to leaning and ranking just one SK spell to be offensive. I think this is a large change IMHO. Jonathan Bean -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Stephen Martin
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 16:58:34 +1300 (NZDT)
One issue is that single target resist for nothing spells end up being a waste of time and energy at med+ levels as the bad guys mostly resist. Potentially look at other resist for... options: Resist for 1/10th is simple math and means that your spells can still chip away at the big bad(s). Resist and be stunned. Resist and be knocked prone. etc. -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:00:13 +1300
------=_Part_31369_1259269.1134360013516 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > > The circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference > to > Hellfire are pretty unusual. Can't comment on "Harming Entity" (having lost it in the distant past), but Hellfire's very short range (10 + 5 feet/rank) has lead to a number of time= s when Damnum Minatum (mute or blind) at 15+15 feet has been a better option against enemies. But that said, I can see how the multi-target and resist-half do make it a powerful spell (perhaps overly desirable at the cost of other options), and tend to agree with Mandos's approach to limiting the bonuses/benefits of an= y one spell. Cheers, Martin ------=_Part_31369_1259269.1134360013516 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"><a href=3D"mailto:raro002@ec.auc= kland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a></b> <<a href=3D"mailto:raro00= 2@ec.auckland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"> </span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rg= b(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">The circum= stances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference to<br>Hellfi= re are pretty unusual. </blockquote><div><br>Can't comment on "Harming Entity" (having l= ost it in the distant past), but Hellfire's very short range (10 + 5 feet/r= ank) has lead to a number of times when Damnum Minatum (mute or blind) at 1= 5+15 feet has been a better option against enemies. <br><br>But that said, I can see how the multi-target and resist-half do ma= ke it a powerful spell (perhaps overly desirable at the cost of other optio= ns), and tend to agree with Mandos's approach to limiting the bonuses/benef= its of any one spell. <br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br> ------=_Part_31369_1259269.1134360013516-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:25:21 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED4.10801FE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of > Stephen Martin > Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 16:59 > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex > and Hellfire? > > > One issue is that single target resist for nothing spells end > up being a waste of time and energy > at med+ levels as the bad guys mostly resist. > I don't know, it was quite fun providing the visual distraction with Bolt of Starfire while Amber + TDP hellfired them from the night above.... > Potentially look at other resist for... options: > > Resist for 1/10th is simple math and means that your spells > can still chip away at the big bad(s). Has potential. Small chance of making a real difference by taking their last FT as well. Maybe make it minumum 2 damage? > > Resist and be stunned. > > Resist and be knocked prone. These go against the feel of magical damage in most cases. Other option: Automatic lose concentration (might have to make it 'and can't Prepare next action if cast this one'). Cheers Errol PS I'd just like to point out that WordSmith's Counterspells are expecially effective against Hellfire... ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED4.10801FE2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2658.2"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and = Hellfire?</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O= n Behalf Of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Stephen Martin</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 16:59</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Subject: Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, = Whirlwind Vortex </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> and Hellfire?</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> One issue is that single target resist for = nothing spells end </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> up being a waste of time and energy</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> at med+ levels as the bad guys mostly = resist.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I don't know, it was quite fun providing the visual = distraction with Bolt of Starfire while Amber + TDP hellfired them from = the night above....</FONT></P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Potentially look at other resist for... = options:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Resist for 1/10th is simple math and means that = your spells </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> can still chip away at the big bad(s).</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Has potential. Small chance of making a real = difference by taking their last FT as well. Maybe make it minumum 2 = damage?</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Resist and be stunned.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>> Resist and be knocked prone.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>These go against the feel of magical damage in most = cases.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Other option:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Automatic lose concentration (might have to make it = 'and can't Prepare next action if cast this one').</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>PS I'd just like to point out that WordSmith's = Counterspells are expecially effective against Hellfire...</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED4.10801FE2-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	[dq] Main-gauche defence
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:25:48 +1300
------=_Part_31593_6028728.1134361548731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Quick question: Do Main-gauche offer defence at Rank 0? The shields table (56.2) states: Defense / Rank The percentage by which the figure's defense is increased per Rank while the shield is prepared (Rank 0 is counted as a Rank). If Main-gauche act differently could someone point me at the appropriate rule, pending rule, etc. Thanks, Martin ------=_Part_31593_6028728.1134361548731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Quick question: Do Main-gauche offer defence at Rank 0?<br><br>The shields = table (56.2) states: Defense / Rank The percentage by which the figure's de= fense is increased per Rank while the shield is prepared (Rank 0 is counted= as a Rank). <br><br>If Main-gauche act differently could someone point me at the approp= riate rule, pending rule, etc.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Martin<br> ------=_Part_31593_6028728.1134361548731-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Main-gauche defence
From	Errol Cavit
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:33:17 +1300
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED5.2C3A583C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Page 18 -> 19 "Defence ... A prepared shield provides defence against all Melee and Ranged attacks that pass through a figure's front hexes, if they have the Shield skill. At Rank 0 and each additional Rank, the defence bonus (2% to 6%, see =A756.2 Shield Chart) is added to defence. No bonus is given for an unranked shield. A figure may not attack with their shield or count their shield as a prepared weapon for Evading while retaining the shield defence bonus. A prepared Main Gauche also provides some defence; however defence is only applied against Melee attacks, and no defence is gained at Rank 0." An extra sentence on the shield table would be good I think. Cheers Errol -----Original Message----- From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Martin Dickson Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 17:26 To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Subject: [dq] Main-gauche defence Quick question: Do Main-gauche offer defence at Rank 0? The shields table (56.2) states: Defense / Rank The percentage by which = the figure's defense is increased per Rank while the shield is prepared = (Rank 0 is counted as a Rank).=20 If Main-gauche act differently could someone point me at the = appropriate rule, pending rule, etc. Thanks, Martin ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED5.2C3A583C Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2658.2"> <TITLE>RE: [dq] Main-gauche defence</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Page 18 -> 19</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>"Defence</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>...</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>A prepared shield provides defence against all = Melee</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and Ranged attacks that pass through a figure's = front</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>hexes, if they have the Shield skill. At Rank 0 = and</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>each additional Rank, the defence bonus (2% to = 6%,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>see =A756.2 Shield Chart) is added to defence. = No</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>bonus is given for an unranked shield. A figure = may</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>not attack with their shield or count their shield = as</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>a prepared weapon for Evading while retaining = the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>shield defence bonus. A prepared Main Gauche = also</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>provides some defence; however defence is only = applied</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>against Melee attacks, and no defence is = gained</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>at Rank 0."</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>An extra sentence on the shield table would be good I = think.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O= n Behalf Of Martin Dickson</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Monday, 12 December 2005 17:26</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [dq] Main-gauche defence</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Quick question: Do Main-gauche offer defence at Rank = 0?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The shields table (56.2) states: Defense / Rank The = percentage by which the figure's defense is increased per Rank while = the shield is prepared (Rank 0 is counted as a Rank). </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If Main-gauche act differently could someone point me = at the appropriate rule, pending rule, etc.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Martin</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5FED5.2C3A583C-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Main-gauche defence
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:42:45 +1300
------=_Part_33014_5855825.1134373365351 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> wrote: > > A prepared Main Gauche also provides some defence; however defence is onl= y > applied > against Melee attacks, and no defence is gained at Rank 0." > Excellent, thank you. Also explains why I didn't find it initially -- "Main gauche" is sometimes hyphenated in DQ and sometimes not. > An extra sentence on the shield table would be good I think. > Good plan. Cheers, Martin ------=_Part_33014_5855825.1134373365351 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Errol Cavit</b> <<a href=3D"m= ailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">ecavit@tollnz.co.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border= -left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-lef= t: 1ex;"> <p><font size=3D"2">A prepared Main Gauche also</font> <font size=3D"2">provides some defence; however defence is only applied</fo= nt> <br><font size=3D"2">against Melee attacks, and no defence is gained</font> <font size=3D"2">at Rank 0."</font></p></blockquote><div><br> Excellent, thank you. Also explains why I didn't find it initially -- "Main gauche" is sometimes hyphenated in DQ and sometimes not.<br= > </div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb= (204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><p><font si= ze=3D"2">An extra sentence on the shield table would be good I think.</font= > </p></blockquote><div><br> Good plan.<br> <br> Cheers,<br> Martin<br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_33014_5855825.1134373365351-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:34:42 +1300
I knew someone would post a situation where you MIGHT cast Harming Entity in preference to Hellfire. When Hellfire becomes castable, the range is as much as you practically have a use for. Yes, there are occasions when you MIGHT use a spell like Harming Entity or Damnum Minatum, but they aren't common enough to raise as a counterposition. Quoting Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>: > On 12/12/05, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > > > > The circumstances where a wiccan might cast Harming Entity in preference > > to > > Hellfire are pretty unusual. > > > Can't comment on "Harming Entity" (having lost it in the distant past), but > Hellfire's very short range (10 + 5 feet/rank) has lead to a number of times > when Damnum Minatum (mute or blind) at 15+15 feet has been a better option > against enemies. > > But that said, I can see how the multi-target and resist-half do make it a > powerful spell (perhaps overly desirable at the cost of other options), and > tend to agree with Mandos's approach to limiting the bonuses/benefits of any > one spell. > > Cheers, > Martin > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Bernard Hoggins
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:08:12 +1100 (EST)
--0-2012766481-1134382092=:76302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Also any situation where you base chance is being adversly affected via a bane/active resist/weird magical effect. Hellfires base chance is a real limiting factor, and at rank 20 it does only get to 110ft range and 7 targets, for a large sp and EM cost. I would note harming entity happens to be a general knowledge spell for comparisons here, and assuming an MA of 20(which is less than min for Wiccan college) can be ranked to rank 20(315' range, 85% BC) for 31500ep. For the same EP you can rank hellfire to rank 9(55' range, 37% BC). Given these numbers, if you want a spell you can be sure of in the middle of a fight, for some effect, I'd go with harming entity myself, if your hard pressed and need to pull a rabbit out of the hat, then kick out hellfires. Comparing the effect of both spells at rank 20 is not a fair comparison, as to get hellfire to rank 20 has taken greater effort so should have a greater reward. As a side point, fire does have the single target spell which is an alternative, Malignent Flames, and as the party from my last game can attest to, that spell can be a pain, as it comes at high ranks with a minor curse, which hits you even if fire armour stops the damage. Though it would be nice if it was a little tougher spell, or a lower EM, but fire has valid alternatives for use. If you really want to address broken spells, try Dragon flames with it's hundred odd potential targets, D+3/rank damage, and doubles and triples with do double or triple, unlike hellfires allready limited double and triple damage(+1/rank and +2/rank damage respectivly rather than double or triple) so a Rank 20 D-Flames is D+60 resist for half before any additions, and under an enhance enchant can reach D+120, then add doubles or triples, and this over half a battle field. Or Agony, with it's resist and be slowed over an entire battlefield while an E&E gets 7 targets if they don't resist at rank 20 with slow. Not to say Hellfire and Necrosis aren't powerfull spells, but they do require a very large investment in time and ep to get them there, and there are far more devastating spells out there than a 7 target spell. Hellfire having a general knowledge spell which applies considerable defence against it. raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz wrote: I knew someone would post a situation where you MIGHT cast Harming Entity in preference to Hellfire. When Hellfire becomes castable, the range is as much as you practically have a use for. Yes, there are occasions when you MIGHT use a spell like Harming Entity or Damnum Minatum, but they aren't common enough to raise as a counterposition. From Bernard Hoggins nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com --0-2012766481-1134382092=:76302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <DIV>Also any situation where you base chance is being adversly affected via a bane/active resist/weird magical effect.</DIV> <DIV>Hellfires base chance is a real limiting factor, and at rank 20 it does only get to 110ft range and 7 targets, for a large sp and EM cost.<BR></DIV> <DIV>I would note harming entity happens to be a general knowledge spell for comparisons here, and assuming an MA of 20(which is less than min for Wiccan college) can be ranked to rank 20(315' range, 85% BC) for 31500ep.</DIV> <DIV>For the same EP you can rank hellfire to rank 9(55' range, 37% BC).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Given these numbers, if you want a spell you can be sure of in the middle of a fight, for some effect, I'd go with harming entity myself, if your hard pressed and need to pull a rabbit out of the hat, then kick out hellfires.  Comparing the effect of both spells at rank 20 is not a fair comparison, as to get hellfire to rank 20 has taken greater effort so should have a greater reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a side point, fire does have the single target spell which is an alternative, Malignent Flames, and as the party from my last game can attest to, that spell can be a pain, as it comes at high ranks with a minor curse, which hits you even if fire armour stops the damage.  Though it would be nice if it was a little tougher spell, or a lower EM, but fire has valid alternatives for use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you really want to address broken spells, try Dragon flames with it's hundred odd potential targets, D+3/rank damage, and doubles and triples with do double or triple, unlike hellfires allready limited double and triple damage(+1/rank and +2/rank damage respectivly rather than double or triple) so a Rank 20 D-Flames is D+60 resist for half before any additions, and under an enhance enchant can reach D+120, then add doubles or triples, and this over half a battle field.</DIV> <DIV>Or Agony, with it's resist and be slowed over an entire battlefield while an E&E gets 7 targets if they don't resist at rank 20 with slow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not to say Hellfire and Necrosis aren't powerfull spells, but they do require a very large investment in time and ep to get them there, and there are far more devastating spells out there than a 7 target spell.</DIV> <DIV>Hellfire having a general knowledge spell which applies considerable defence against it.</DIV> <DIV><BR><B><I>raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I knew someone would post a situation where you MIGHT cast Harming Entity in preference to Hellfire. When Hellfire becomes castable, the range is as much as you practically have a use for. Yes, there are occasions when you MIGHT use a spell like Harming Entity or Damnum Minatum, but they aren't common enough to raise as a counterposition.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>From Bernard Hoggins<br>nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk<p>Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com --0-2012766481-1134382092=:76302-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

Subject	Re: [dq] Options with: Necrosis, Whirlwind Vortex and Hellfire?
From	Martin Dickson
Date	Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:54:03 +1300
------=_Part_34526_28520280.1134384843500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > > Yes, there are occasions when you MIGHT use a > spell like Harming Entity or Damnum Minatum, but they aren't common enoug= h > to > raise as a counterposition. Well no, that's not the case, as I have seen it. 'Course I'm only speaking from personal experience, so it's a data set of one, and there are other issues (namely a character who doesn't kill if it can be avoided), but the range issue alone has been enough to choose DMin over Hellfire on more than a few occassions. If your experience has been that Hellfire is used at every opportunity then our experiences simply vary. It does little to prove a position or counterposition either way. I still agree however that those spells mentioned do need looking at. Regards, Martin ------=_Part_34526_28520280.1134384843500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 12/12/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername"><a href=3D"mailto:raro002@ec.auc= kland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a></b> <<a href=3D"mailto:raro00= 2@ec.auckland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a>> wrote:<div><span cla= ss=3D"gmail_quote"> </span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rg= b(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Yes, there= are occasions when you MIGHT use a<br>spell like Harming Entity or Damnum = Minatum, but they aren't common enough to <br>raise as a counterposition.</blockquote><div><br> Well no, that's not the case, as I have seen it.<br> <br> 'Course I'm only speaking from personal experience, so it's a data set of one, and there are other issues (namely a character who doesn't kill if it can be avoided), but the range issue alone has been enough to choose DMin over Hellfire on more than a few occassions.<br> <br> If your experience has been that Hellfire is used at every opportunity then our experiences simply vary. It does little to prove a position or counterposition either way.<br> <br> I still agree however that those spells mentioned do need looking at.<br> <br> Regards,<br> Martin<br> </div></div><br> ------=_Part_34526_28520280.1134384843500-- -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --