Hi all,

I have found it very useful when GMing to think about the seating on night
one.

What I try to do is, to look at the players and work out quickly as best I
can which players will be interacting a lot, and sit them with other players
between them. I also think about which of the players (if any) are not going
to be there each week. Also if the game will have stealth/sneeky parts to
it, I thy to put those characters closer to me on the end of the seating
order.

I do think so that I can try to work out an order of seating around the
room. A seat or spot if you like for each player.
I try to get players to sit in the same spot each week. If needed I will ask
players to move to there spot.

I find this is helpful, as I have noticed that both players and myself, find
it easier and faster to 'get into character' when the characters/players are
in the same spot.

I did try putting players in IV order, but it did not work well. Does anyone
else uses seating spots or player order for anything that is helpful?

Kind regards,

Jonathan


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> I did try putting players in IV order, but it did not work 
> well. Does anyone else uses seating spots or player order for 
> anything that is helpful?

I put people in IV order for combats. I found it incredibly helpful for
speeding up the combat as I could just look round the room and note
where my NPC's fitted into the sequence. This was particularly good when
I was using my alternate initative system.

Other than combats I let people sit where they like, although I might
try and shuffle people a bit if it looks like the game dynamic may
improve. 

Mandos
/s


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I'm just the opposite.
I like players to change seats during a season; players mostly talk to=20
those right next to them, and if you move them around every couple of=20
weeks all the characters get to intereact with all the others.
I also like to place quiet players closer to me (so they don't get=20
overlooked when the raucous ones are demanding attention).
When I'm on the ball I take note of which individuals bring out the quiet=20
players and encourage them to sit near each other.

In combat I rarely get all the players involved in the same melee, so I=20
run each engaged set in IV order.  Since the each 'set' will change during =

an evening I don't worry too much about seating.

Unengaged, I go around the room, unless the mil sci has set something up - =

then I go with the flow.

NB for mass NPCs I use figures with numbers painted on the TOP of the=20
base, ie clearly visable, making bookkeeping much easier.

Regards,
Rosemary







To
dq@dq.sf.org.nz
cc

Subject
[dq] Seating order within a game






Hi all,

I have found it very useful when GMing to think about the seating on night
one.

What I try to do is, to look at the players and work out quickly as best I
can which players will be interacting a lot, and sit them with other=20
players
between them. I also think about which of the players (if any) are not=20
going
to be there each week. Also if the game will have stealth/sneeky parts to
it, I thy to put those characters closer to me on the end of the seating
order.

I do think so that I can try to work out an order of seating around the
room. A seat or spot if you like for each player.
I try to get players to sit in the same spot each week. If needed I will=20
ask
players to move to there spot.

I find this is helpful, as I have noticed that both players and myself,=20
find
it easier and faster to 'get into character' when the characters/players=20
are
in the same spot.

I did try putting players in IV order, but it did not work well. Does=20
anyone
else uses seating spots or player order for anything that is helpful?

Kind regards,

Jonathan


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nded recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution =
or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have received this=
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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I'm just the opposite.</font><br><fo=
nt size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I like players to change seats during
a season; players mostly talk to those right next to them, and if you move
them around every couple of weeks all the characters get to intereact with
all the others.</font><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">I also like to=
 place quiet players closer
to me (so they don't get overlooked when the raucous ones are demanding
attention).</font><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">When I'm on the ba=
ll I take note of
which individuals bring out the quiet players and encourage them to sit
near each other.</font><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">In combat=
 I rarely get all the players
involved in the same melee, so I run each engaged set in IV order. &nbsp;Si=
nce
the each 'set' will change during an evening I don't worry too much about
seating.</font><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Unengaged, I go a=
round the room, unless
the mil sci has set something up - then I go with the flow.</font><br><br><=
font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">NB for mass NPCs I use figures with
numbers painted on the TOP of the base, ie clearly visable, making bookkeep=
ing
much easier.</font><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Regards,<br>R=
osemary<br></font><br><br><br><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td widt=
h=3D40%><br><td width=3D59%><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td><div a=
lign=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div><td><font si=
ze=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font><tr valign=3Dtop><td><div =
align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div><td><tr val=
ign=3Dtop><td><div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject=
</font></div><td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">[dq] Seating order with=
in a game</font></table><br><table><tr valign=3Dtop><td><td></table><br></t=
able><br><br><br><font size=3D2><tt>Hi all,<br><br>I have found it very use=
ful when GMing to think about the seating on night<br>one.<br><br>What I tr=
y to do is, to look at the players and work out quickly as best
I<br>can which players will be interacting a lot, and sit them with other p=
layers<br>between them. I also think about which of the players (if any) ar=
e not
going<br>to be there each week. Also if the game will have stealth/sneeky p=
arts
to<br>it, I thy to put those characters closer to me on the end of the seat=
ing<br>order.<br><br>I do think so that I can try to work out an order of s=
eating around the<br>room. A seat or spot if you like for each player.<br>I=
 try to get players to sit in the same spot each week. If needed I will
ask<br>players to move to there spot.<br><br>I find this is helpful, as I h=
ave noticed that both players and myself,
find<br>it easier and faster to 'get into character' when the characters/pl=
ayers
are<br>in the same spot.<br><br>I did try putting players in IV order, but =
it did not work well. Does anyone<br>else uses seating spots or player orde=
r for anything that is helpful?<br><br>Kind regards,<br><br>Jonathan<br><br=
><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<br><br>- - =
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - <br>This e-mail has=
 been scanned for viruses by by MessageLabs.<br>For further information vis=
it http://www.messagelabs.com<br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =
- - - - - - - - -<br></tt></font><br><font face=3D"sans-serif"><FONT Size=
=3D1><BR>Attention: This message and accompanying data are confidential and=
 may contain information that is subject to legal privilege. If you are not=
 the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, dist=
ribution or copying of this message or data is prohibited. If you have rece=
ived this email in error, please notify us immediately and erase all copies=
 of the message and attachments. This email and any attachments may contain=
 views or opinions that are those of the sender and not necessarily the vie=
w or opinions of ING (NZ) Limited and/or its=20
associated entities.<BR></FONT>
</font>

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Rosemary said:
> I also like to place quiet players closer to me (so they don't get
overlooked when the raucous ones are demanding attention).
I like the look of this and I will give it a try next session.

Jono


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D329293121-06022006>Rosemary said:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D329293121-06022006><SPAN=20
class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT color=3D#0000ff>&gt; </FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000>I=20
also like to place quiet players closer to me (so they don't get =
overlooked when=20
the raucous ones are demanding =
attention).</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I like=20
the look of this and I will give it a try next session. =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Jono</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D329293121-06022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

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I have noticed:

The effects of being on a game on Alusia is that often the players feel
calmer as they seem to think that they have an understanding of the way the
world works, which is not always a given on a new plane. I think that this
expectation or understanding is not always true but players seem to have it
or hang onto it anyway.

Going off plane seems to be higher level and involve more magic, than a
local game even of the same style. I am not sure how creditable I could make
a game ‘off world’ to 'fix the troll' under the bridge at a local village,
style of adventure would be. How do others justify it, do you bother to
justify it?

Does it need to be justified at all, or are characters prepaired to turn a
blind eye with the aim of supporting the game?

Kind regards,

Jono


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> Going off plane seems to be higher level and involve more 
> magic, than a local game even of the same style. I am not 
> sure how creditable I could make a game 'off world' to 'fix 
> the troll' under the bridge at a local village, style of 
> adventure would be. How do others justify it, do you bother 
> to justify it?
> Does it need to be justified at all, or are characters 
> prepaired to turn a blind eye with the aim of supporting the game?

I shifted to playing on Alusia a couple of years ago for that reason. I
wanted to run smaller focussed games in an area I could develop more
fully. As such I have only run the those kind of games on Alusia. 

For me the justification is always how the hirer made it to the guild
and why they came but as a player I will ignore the rediculous in order
to get to the adventure itself. As a GM I always try to make the reason
the guild is involved clear and reasonable to avoid that issue. 

Mandos
/s


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Something I remembered today as I was rewriting my next adventure is
Mind Maps and then as I moved into the other apps I use I realised that
the tools of adventure writing have changed quite drastically for me
these days so I thought tip number three is the tools of the trade and
how I use them to write my adventures. 

I have only been using these tools for a couple of years, previously I
got an idea in my head, made things up on the fly and improvised a lot.
Planning in the way I now do takes a lot of time but does mean I am less
paniky and flustered when it comes to the game which I hope improves
things for the players. 



Step One - The basic Idea. 

I start with a mindmap to help flesh out an idea I have had and while I
am sure some of you are aware of mindmaps they are not a common piece of
software outside of project management and database planning teams.
(They maybe in more widespready use but I have not seen them used by
anyone else)

Basically a Mindmap is a tool for helping you organise your thoughts.

Essentially it produces a tree structure that allows you to visually
break down the aspects of the adventure and then move the branches
around to help organise your thoughts. 

An example of a mindmap is available here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_mapping

I use them for two purposes. One is a generic mindmap I use to plot out
backgrounds and locations which just reminds me of all the aspects I
need to think about as I create the world. Things like farming,
tradegoods, terrain, maps foods etc are all broken down so I can quickly
grab the info I am going to need and get it into my notes. 

The second I use for planning the adventure itself, particularly for
plot driven games and it helps link one thought to another and ensure
that the adventure is internally consistant as much as possible. 

They are not the be all and end all of adventure planning but they can
work to help you recall the little details that you need to plan for. 



Step 2 - Locations

Once I have the mindmap completed I start to work on the locations where
the adventure will take place. The locations shape the NPC's drastically
so I always plan Where prior to Who. 

I tend to work best from a visual reminder so I go looking for maps of
either the geographic area or in the case of my D'arbres adventures I
started with a map of the village itself and grew it from there. 

This is where the power of the web and Google Earth kick in. For
villages, abbeys etc I use the Web for geographic area's I use the web
initially and then Google Earth to get an idea of what the same kind of
area would look like on earth. 



Step 3 - NPC's 

For NPC's I use a mixture of Viso and Excel. 

I start with Viso and map out important interactions between NPC's,
referring to the mindmaps to ensure I don't miss anything vital to the
plot. From here I create interaction maps similar to the ones you find
in White Wolf books which I use during the game to help refresh who
hates who when parties are questioning people. 

Once the important NPC's have been named, mapped out and sorted I turn
to Excel where I have two NPC generators. The first simply creates a
Name, gives them a sex, height, body shape and hair colour. This creates
villages or entire area's full of names people. I tend to import these
into Visio using the organisation chart wizard to group these into
visable groupings. 

A second Excel spreadsheet is used to produce tidy NPC's for combat
purposes that I use for fight planning. 

Both these Excel spreadsheets are in development and I hope to release
them in the near future as companions to the charactersheets I have also
helped create. If people want the Beta editions please let me know. 


Mandos
<Hoping that more people have things to share cos I am running out>
/s


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From what I saw this weekend at the Tourney in Taupo, I can believe 30 a
minute is possible.
Even a horse archer picking targets in melee is shooting once every 3 to 4
seconds.
However I don't believe that rate of fire is sustainable, which might be
where the difference comes from.

The archery might be able to shoot at a rate of 30 a min for just a minute
or so, but then he has to stop and rest.
Where as the 10 to 12 a minute is by pacing yourself for a steady rate of
fire or it is the average rate of fire over a period of time with a series
of fast shoots and periods of rest.

Helen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness and Slowness.


> Quoting Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>:
>
> > On 2/2/06, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> > >
> > > Quoting Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > Most of the material I've seen has quoted 10-12 arrows per minute
for a
> > > > trained medieval archer.  I've never seen a rate of fire of around
30
> > > > mentioned. Do you have a source for this?
> > >
> > > Philip Contamine: European Warfare in the Middle Ages
> >
> >
> > Thanks Jim.  Seems a well repected author/book from the reviews
on-line --
> > wonder where his figures came from... just insofar as they are quite
> > different from the norm... but then it is always possible that 10-12 is
one
> > of those oft-repeated numbers with little or no basis.  Quite
interesting.
>
> I read it some time ago, and I may have misremembered or misread it, but I
have
> this recollection of him talking about how they set up arrows behind them
which
> they walked backwards to. I don't know where dozen a minute comes from. It
may
> be that Contamine is talking about an exceptional circumstance. Who are
you
> reading?
>
> Jim.
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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I've always done it, but  I do it with different reasons in mind.

I make sure that the people who make the greatest demands on your time as a DM
are in the middle of the room (i.e. the furthest away from you), and those who
have the quietest voices are nearest you.

Also, some people, like Adam Tennant, will talk the hind leg off of a dog if you
let them, and you need to make sure that people like that are far enough away
from you that you are less distracted from the behaviour of your other players.

I do not get the sneaks in the party to sit near me, because otherwise, they're
immediately under suspicion. In any case, I don't want to encourage situations
where one player gets more DM time than any of the others, as a general rule.
It's up to the sneaky player to find a way to let me know that they're up to
something nefarious.

Jim.


Quoting Jonathan Bean - TME <Jonathan@tme.co.nz>:

> Hi all,
>
> I have found it very useful when GMing to think about the seating on night
> one.
>
> What I try to do is, to look at the players and work out quickly as best I
> can which players will be interacting a lot, and sit them with other players
> between them. I also think about which of the players (if any) are not going
> to be there each week. Also if the game will have stealth/sneeky parts to
> it, I thy to put those characters closer to me on the end of the seating
> order.
>
> I do think so that I can try to work out an order of seating around the
> room. A seat or spot if you like for each player.
> I try to get players to sit in the same spot each week. If needed I will ask
> players to move to there spot.
>
> I find this is helpful, as I have noticed that both players and myself, find
> it easier and faster to 'get into character' when the characters/players are
> in the same spot.
>
> I did try putting players in IV order, but it did not work well. Does anyone
> else uses seating spots or player order for anything that is helpful?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Quoting Helen Saggers <helen@owbn.net.nz>:

> From what I saw this weekend at the Tourney in Taupo, I can believe 30 a
> minute is possible.
> Even a horse archer picking targets in melee is shooting once every 3 to 4
> seconds.
> However I don't believe that rate of fire is sustainable, which might be
> where the difference comes from.
>
> The archery might be able to shoot at a rate of 30 a min for just a minute
> or so, but then he has to stop and rest.
> Where as the 10 to 12 a minute is by pacing yourself for a steady rate of
> fire or it is the average rate of fire over a period of time with a series
> of fast shoots and periods of rest.

Makes sense.

Jim


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Hi all,

It is good to see that some people found that the E-Scale was entertaining.
Does anyone other than Martin have anything to add to it?

Kind regards,

Jono


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --

> It is good to see that some people found that the E-Scale was 
> entertaining. Does anyone other than Martin have anything to 
> add to it?

Just to confirm, do you add the points from all catagories or just the
category you consider the character to be in?

Mandos
/s


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The concept seems reasonable, but I assume the competitor's bows had
somewhat less pull than war bows (the winner's educated guess of his was
50lbs)? This would help the burst rate, and delay fatigue (a lot?), I would
think.

Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helen Saggers [mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 13:10
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness and Slowness.
> 
> 
> From what I saw this weekend at the Tourney in Taupo, I can 
> believe 30 a
> minute is possible.
> Even a horse archer picking targets in melee is shooting once 
> every 3 to 4
> seconds.
> However I don't believe that rate of fire is sustainable, 
> which might be
> where the difference comes from.
> 
> The archery might be able to shoot at a rate of 30 a min for 
> just a minute
> or so, but then he has to stop and rest.
> Where as the 10 to 12 a minute is by pacing yourself for a 
> steady rate of
> fire or it is the average rate of fire over a period of time 
> with a series
> of fast shoots and periods of rest.
> 
> Helen
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz>
> To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness and Slowness.
> 
> 
> > Quoting Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > On 2/2/06, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz 
> <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Quoting Martin Dickson <martin.dickson@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > Most of the material I've seen has quoted 10-12 
> arrows per minute
> for a
> > > > > trained medieval archer.  I've never seen a rate of 
> fire of around
> 30
> > > > > mentioned. Do you have a source for this?
> > > >
> > > > Philip Contamine: European Warfare in the Middle Ages
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks Jim.  Seems a well repected author/book from the reviews
> on-line --
> > > wonder where his figures came from... just insofar as 
> they are quite
> > > different from the norm... but then it is always possible 
> that 10-12 is
> one
> > > of those oft-repeated numbers with little or no basis.  Quite
> interesting.
> >
> > I read it some time ago, and I may have misremembered or 
> misread it, but I
> have
> > this recollection of him talking about how they set up 
> arrows behind them
> which
> > they walked backwards to. I don't know where dozen a minute 
> comes from. It
> may
> > be that Contamine is talking about an exceptional 
> circumstance. Who are
> you
> > reading?
> >
> > Jim.
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> 

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The concept seems reasonable, but I assume the =
competitor's bows had somewhat less pull than war bows (the winner's =
educated guess of his was 50lbs)? This would help the burst rate, and =
delay fatigue (a lot?), I would think.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Helen Saggers [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz">mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 13:10</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness and =
Slowness.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From what I saw this weekend at the Tourney in =
Taupo, I can </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; believe 30 a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; minute is possible.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Even a horse archer picking targets in melee is =
shooting once </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; every 3 to 4</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; seconds.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; However I don't believe that rate of fire is =
sustainable, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; which might be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; where the difference comes from.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; The archery might be able to shoot at a rate of =
30 a min for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; just a minute</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; or so, but then he has to stop and rest.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Where as the 10 to 12 a minute is by pacing =
yourself for a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; steady rate of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; fire or it is the average rate of fire over a =
period of time </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; with a series</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; of fast shoots and periods of rest.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Helen</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; ----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: &lt;raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: &lt;dq@dq.sf.org.nz&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:22 =
PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Quickness and =
Slowness.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Quoting Martin Dickson =
&lt;martin.dickson@gmail.com&gt;:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; On 2/2/06, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &lt;raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz&gt; wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Quoting Martin Dickson =
&lt;martin.dickson@gmail.com&gt;:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Most of the material I've =
seen has quoted 10-12 </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; arrows per minute</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; for a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; trained medieval =
archer.&nbsp; I've never seen a rate of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; fire of around</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 30</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; mentioned. Do you have a =
source for this?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Philip Contamine: European =
Warfare in the Middle Ages</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks Jim.&nbsp; Seems a well =
repected author/book from the reviews</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; on-line --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; wonder where his figures came from... =
just insofar as </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; they are quite</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; different from the norm... but then =
it is always possible </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; that 10-12 is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; of those oft-repeated numbers with =
little or no basis.&nbsp; Quite</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; interesting.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I read it some time ago, and I may have =
misremembered or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; misread it, but I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; this recollection of him talking about how =
they set up </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; arrows behind them</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; which</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; they walked backwards to. I don't know =
where dozen a minute </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; comes from. It</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; may</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; be that Contamine is talking about an =
exceptional </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; circumstance. Who are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; reading?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Jim.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C62B82.3BF00E6E--


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Mandos asked:
> Just to confirm, do you add the points from all catagories or just the
> category you consider the character to be in?

You can add them all up if you wish.

As a side note:
If you have a few in Low and most in Med and High then maybe you could
consider yourself a Med/High level character (in that general ball park).

Jono


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I'm entertained!

I considered the E-scale to be a yardstick for characters once Low, Medium, and High no longer
applied.

Digs at Sabrina aside, this is a good start for a guide to what sort of abilities/attitudes are
appropriate for each level.  Can we Wiki this as a level guide?

+5% with a weapon is generally equivalent to +1 damage.  Rather than 1:1.  So instead of Weapon
with +1-10%; Weapon with +1-10 dam.  I'd have Weapon with +1-10%; Weapon with +0-2 dam.

PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean - TME said:
> Hi all,
>
> It is good to see that some people found that the E-Scale was entertaining. Does anyone other
> than Martin have anything to add to it?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jono
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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> Digs at Sabrina aside, this is a good start for a guide to 
> what sort of abilities/attitudes are appropriate for each 
> level.  Can we Wiki this as a level guide?

I was actually going the other way. Putting it into a little spreadsheet
so that you answer the questions and it comes up with what level your
character is :-) 

Mandos
/s


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Stephen said:

> I'm entertained!
Excellent!

... cut ...

> Digs at Sabrina aside, this is a good start for a guide to what sort of
abilities/attitudes are
> appropriate for each level.  Can we Wiki this as a level guide?

I think its a good number based random collective view of levels. Yes the
wiki would be a good spot for it.

> +5% with a weapon is generally equivalent to +1 damage.  Rather than 1:1.
> So instead of Weapon with +1-10%; Weapon with +1-10 dam.  I'd have Weapon
with +1-10%; Weapon with +0-2 dam.

Sure but in the scheme of things Fighters in DQ and Mages are not equial.

> PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?
Engalton = 1.23E I think.

Jono


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On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:16, Stephen Martin wrote:
> PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?

The volume scale on ordinary characters goes from 0.1 to 1.0, but
Engleton is special,you can turn him up to 1.1.


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I agree, Fighters are much cooler, mages are soooo common.

But I was just talking about magic weapons.
Generally a +2 damage sword, a +10% SC sword, and a +1 dam +5% SC sword all have similar values.

Your list implied equal value for damage and SC bonuses...
Extreme: ...
A plus 10+ 'to hit' magical weapon
A plus 10+ 'damage' magical weapon

I agree completely that a +10 damage weapon is extreme.  But +10 to hit is not, +50 would be
equivalent.

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean - TME said:
> Stephen said:
>> +5% with a weapon is generally equivalent to +1 damage.  Rather than 1:1. So instead of Weapon
>> with +1-10%; Weapon with +1-10 dam.  I'd have Weapon
> with +1-10%; Weapon with +0-2 dam.
>
> Sure but in the scheme of things Fighters in DQ and Mages are not equial.


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Ok I will change it.

Jono

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 2:43 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> 
> 
> I agree, Fighters are much cooler, mages are soooo common.
> 
> But I was just talking about magic weapons.
> Generally a +2 damage sword, a +10% SC sword, and a +1 dam +5% SC 
> sword all have similar values.
> 
> Your list implied equal value for damage and SC bonuses...
> Extreme: ...
> A plus 10+ 'to hit' magical weapon
> A plus 10+ 'damage' magical weapon
> 
> I agree completely that a +10 damage weapon is extreme.  But +10 
> to hit is not, +50 would be
> equivalent.
> 
> Cheers, Stephen.
> 
> Jonathan Bean - TME said:
> > Stephen said:
> >> +5% with a weapon is generally equivalent to +1 damage.  
> Rather than 1:1. So instead of Weapon
> >> with +1-10%; Weapon with +1-10 dam.  I'd have Weapon
> > with +1-10%; Weapon with +0-2 dam.
> >
> > Sure but in the scheme of things Fighters in DQ and Mages are 
> not equial.
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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> On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:16, Stephen Martin wrote:
> > PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?
> 
> The volume scale on ordinary characters goes from 0.1 to 1.0, 
> but Engleton is special,you can turn him up to 1.1.

When we originally discussed it it was to rate characters that were so
tough as to be off the normal 'low medium high' scale. In order to
achieve this you needed to be able to keep up with Engleton and so the
scale was set at 1E being your toughness in relation to Engleton. 

Most high characters would come in at between .5 and .8 of an E with
those who can adventure with Engleton and keep up rating .9E and above. 

:-)

Ahhh the conversations that happen when Beer is involved :0-)

Mandos
/s


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I favour something like a logarithmic scale, base of about 350, rather than a simple divide by 200. That way you have to have a score of 350 to equal 1. hmm 500 maybe better.

with a base of 500 the E-ratings are:
Score    E-rating
2	 0.11 
10	 0.37 
20	 0.48 
30	 0.55 
40	 0.59 
50	 0.63 
60	 0.66 
70	 0.68 
80	 0.71 
90	 0.72 
100	 0.74 
110	 0.76 
120	 0.77 
130	 0.78 
140	 0.80 
160	 0.82 
180	 0.84 
200	 0.85 
225	 0.87 
250	 0.89 
275	 0.90 
300	 0.92 
325	 0.93 
350	 0.94 
375	 0.95 
400	 0.96 
425	 0.97 
450	 0.98 
475	 0.99 
500	 1.00 


so it is easy to have an E-rating of .50, harder to have an E of .75, hard to be 0.85, really hard to have E=0.90, and really really hard to have an E of 0.95.

so you can try and try to improve, but you have to work at it just to go from 0.89 to 0.90.

enjoy!

Ian


> 
> From: Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>
> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue PM 02:21:43 GMT+13:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> 
> > Digs at Sabrina aside, this is a good start for a guide to
> > what sort of abilities/attitudes are appropriate for each
> > level.  Can we Wiki this as a level guide?
> 
> I was actually going the other way. Putting it into a little spreadsheet
> so that you answer the questions and it comes up with what level your
> character is :-)
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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RE: [dq] Quickness and Slowness.----- Original Message ----- 
From: Errol Cavit
The concept seems reasonable, but I assume the competitor's bows had
somewhat less pull than war bows (the winner's educated guess of his was
50lbs)? This would help the burst rate, and delay fatigue (a lot?), I would
think.
Cheers
Errol

More the delay fatigue side of things than the burst rate. I can't see the
mechanics of  load, draw, aim, release, of the snap shot type of thing
needed for this rate of fire being much affected by the greater draw of the
bow, if you have practiced.

I have a long bow and a recurve, I find it harder to hold the stronger
recurve at full draw for the aim, but other wise the loading, smooth draw
etc seems to take the same time for both bows.

Helen


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Can you reverse engineer it, to give an idea of what a Pc should be capable of to go on a medium-high or so forth?

Ian

> > Digs at Sabrina aside, this is a good start for a guide to
> > what sort of abilities/attitudes are appropriate for each
> > level.  Can we Wiki this as a level guide?
> 
> I was actually going the other way. Putting it into a little spreadsheet
> so that you answer the questions and it comes up with what level your
> character is :-)
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Mandos said:

> When we originally discussed it it was to rate characters that were so
> tough as to be off the normal 'low medium high' scale. In order to
> achieve this you needed to be able to keep up with Engleton and so the
> scale was set at 1E being your toughness in relation to Engleton.

I will adjust/balance the scale to match the 1E = 1 Engalton.

> Most high characters would come in at between .5 and .8 of an E with
> those who can adventure with Engleton and keep up rating .9E and above.

I expect all the Engalgoons will score over 1E - otherwise there will be
trouble ;-)

Jono


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ahh, I can just visualise the setting:
player asks Gm to run game so their PC can get another E-badge, another tick, another 5 magical points...

and being smacked around something wicked. 

'coz it is fun to hit them when they are grovelling on the ground at yur bootes.

Ian

> 
> From: Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>
> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue PM 02:54:43 GMT+13:00
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> 
> > On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:16, Stephen Martin wrote:
> > > PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?
> >
> > The volume scale on ordinary characters goes from 0.1 to 1.0,
> > but Engleton is special,you can turn him up to 1.1.
> 
> When we originally discussed it it was to rate characters that were so
> tough as to be off the normal 'low medium high' scale. In order to
> achieve this you needed to be able to keep up with Engleton and so the
> scale was set at 1E being your toughness in relation to Engleton.
> 
> Most high characters would come in at between .5 and .8 of an E with
> those who can adventure with Engleton and keep up rating .9E and above.
> 
> :-)
> 
> Ahhh the conversations that happen when Beer is involved :0-)
> 
> Mandos
> /s
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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You still talking about DQ here, Ian?

Jim

Quoting dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz:

> ahh, I can just visualise the setting:
> player asks Gm to run game so their PC can get another E-badge, another tick,
> another 5 magical points...
>
> and being smacked around something wicked.
>
> 'coz it is fun to hit them when they are grovelling on the ground at yur
> bootes.
>
> Ian
>
> >
> > From: Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>
> > Date: 2006/02/07 Tue PM 02:54:43 GMT+13:00
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> >
> > > On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:16, Stephen Martin wrote:
> > > > PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?
> > >
> > > The volume scale on ordinary characters goes from 0.1 to 1.0,
> > > but Engleton is special,you can turn him up to 1.1.
> >
> > When we originally discussed it it was to rate characters that were so
> > tough as to be off the normal 'low medium high' scale. In order to
> > achieve this you needed to be able to keep up with Engleton and so the
> > scale was set at 1E being your toughness in relation to Engleton.
> >
> > Most high characters would come in at between .5 and .8 of an E with
> > those who can adventure with Engleton and keep up rating .9E and above.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Ahhh the conversations that happen when Beer is involved :0-)
> >
> > Mandos
> > /s
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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> > ahh, I can just visualise the setting:
> > player asks Gm to run game so their PC can get another E-badge, 
> > another tick, another 5 magical points...
> >
> > and being smacked around something wicked.
> >
> > 'coz it is fun to hit them when they are grovelling on the 
> > ground at yur bootes.

> You still talking about DQ here, Ian?

Remember Jim, just nod, smile, and hand him his dried frog pills. 

Mandos
/s


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I might nudge them in his direction with a stick...

Jim.


Quoting Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>:

>
> Remember Jim, just nod, smile, and hand him his dried frog pills.
>
> Mandos
> /s
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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> I might nudge them in his direction with a stick...

After the last message I would make it a long stick :)

Mandos
/s


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Yeah, sort of the Duke of Edinburough Awards modified for DQ

Ian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
> Sent: 07 February 2006 15:40
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> 
> You still talking about DQ here, Ian?
> 
> Jim
> 
> Quoting dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz:
> 
> > ahh, I can just visualise the setting:
> > player asks Gm to run game so their PC can get another E-badge, another
> tick,
> > another 5 magical points...
> >
> > and being smacked around something wicked.
> >
> > 'coz it is fun to hit them when they are grovelling on the ground at yur
> > bootes.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > >
> > > From: Mandos Mitchinson <MandosM@adhb.govt.nz>
> > > Date: 2006/02/07 Tue PM 02:54:43 GMT+13:00
> > > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > > Subject: Re: [dq] E scale
> > >
> > > > On Tue, 2006-02-07 at 14:16, Stephen Martin wrote:
> > > > > PS Does Engalton rate at 1.0E on this scale?
> > > >
> > > > The volume scale on ordinary characters goes from 0.1 to 1.0,
> > > > but Engleton is special,you can turn him up to 1.1.
> > >
> > > When we originally discussed it it was to rate characters that were so
> > > tough as to be off the normal 'low medium high' scale. In order to
> > > achieve this you needed to be able to keep up with Engleton and so the
> > > scale was set at 1E being your toughness in relation to Engleton.
> > >
> > > Most high characters would come in at between .5 and .8 of an E with
> > > those who can adventure with Engleton and keep up rating .9E and
> above.
> > >
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > Ahhh the conversations that happen when Beer is involved :0-)
> > >
> > > Mandos
> > > /s
> > >
> > >
> > > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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