Subject[dq] Issaries Inc Material
FromStephen Martin
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 13:44:20 +1300 (NZDT)
RE: http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/DQWiki:About#Issaries_Inc_Material

Jono, could you elaborate on this please?

I'm guessing that Greg has contacted you and said that the Lunar Empire maps you are using do not
belong to Harn/Columbia Games, they belong to him.  But that it is ok for us to use and post them.
Is that correct?

Cheers, Stephen.

------------------
Issaries Inc Material

Special thanks to Greg Stafford of Issaries Inc, for bringing to our attention the ownership
issues, and alowing us to correct them to be:

The Lunar Empire Map which is accessable from the DQ Wiki is based on a map which is
(c) Copyright to Issaries Inc. 2005


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SubjectRe: [dq] Issaries Inc Material
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:04:51 +1300
Yes I have been talking to Greg Stafford of Issaries Inc. It is easier for
everyone if we give all copyright to Issaries Inc.
It sorts out all grey areas, and solves all issues that may or may not
arise.

I am sure that the text will change as they give us the correct legal
notice.

Jono



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> Stephen Martin
> Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 1:44 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: [dq] Issaries Inc Material
>
>
> RE:
> http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/DQWiki:About#Issari
> es_Inc_Material
>
> Jono, could you elaborate on this please?
>
> I'm guessing that Greg has contacted you and said that the Lunar
> Empire maps you are using do not
> belong to Harn/Columbia Games, they belong to him.  But that it
> is ok for us to use and post them.
> Is that correct?
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> ------------------
> Issaries Inc Material
>
> Special thanks to Greg Stafford of Issaries Inc, for bringing to
> our attention the ownership
> issues, and alowing us to correct them to be:
>
> The Lunar Empire Map which is accessable from the DQ Wiki is
> based on a map which is
> (c) Copyright to Issaries Inc. 2005
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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Subject[dq] DQ ownership?
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:13:31 +1300
Hi all,

We may wish to talk about the ownership of DragonQuest at some point?
Who knows the legal status of 'us' and our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'
and the Ownership of it by PSI -> TSR -> WOC -> Hasbro?

We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people if we can IMO.
What do others think?

Jonathan Bean


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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromRPer 4eva
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:27:32 +1300
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Credit where its due. Especialy given the legal consequences of messing it
up.
Dylan


On 2/20/06, Jonathan Bean - TME <Jonathan@tme.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> We may wish to talk about the ownership of DragonQuest at some point?
> Who knows the legal status of 'us' and our use of 'DragonQuest' and or
> 'DQ'
> and the Ownership of it by PSI -> TSR -> WOC -> Hasbro?
>
> We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people if we can IMO=
.
> What do others think?
>
> Jonathan Bean
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

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<div>Credit where its due. Especialy given the legal consequences of messin=
g it up.</div>
<div>Dylan<br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 2/20/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Jonathan Bean - TME</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz">Jonathan@=
tme.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi all,<br><br>We may wish to ta=
lk about the ownership of DragonQuest at some point?<br>Who knows the legal=
 status of 'us' and our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'
<br>and the Ownership of it by PSI -&gt; TSR -&gt; WOC -&gt; Hasbro?<br><br=
>We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people if we can IMO.=
<br>What do others think?<br><br>Jonathan Bean<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe=
 notify mailto:
<a href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<b=
r></blockquote></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:28:10 +1300
> We may wish to talk about the ownership of DragonQuest at 
> some point? Who knows the legal status of 'us' and our use of 
> 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ' and the Ownership of it by PSI -> 
> TSR -> WOC -> Hasbro?
> 
> We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people 
> if we can IMO. What do others think?

From talking to Hasbro, they appear to have no idea what DQ is or
whether they own it but have let us use the name and put material on the
net anyway if they do own it. 

I wouldn't worry too much, it only becomes an issue if we wanted to
actually release it as a game for profit, othewise people seem pretty
happy to leave us alone and get on with things. 

The downside to investigating is people might start to notice and/or
care. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:32:06 +1300
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What is on the 2004 Rulebook is:

Copyright
DragonQuest is copyright to Simulations Publications, Inc. First =
Edition,
Copyright=A9 1980. Second Edition, Copyright=A9 1981.
The named contributors assert their right to this work. This rule book =
is
copylefted under the GNU Public License, version 2.0.

A list of Contributors is given.

Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf =
Of
> Mandos Mitchinson
> Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 15:28
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] DQ ownership?
>=20
>=20
> > We may wish to talk about the ownership of DragonQuest at=20
> > some point? Who knows the legal status of 'us' and our use of=20
> > 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ' and the Ownership of it by PSI ->=20
> > TSR -> WOC -> Hasbro?
> >=20
> > We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people=20
> > if we can IMO. What do others think?
>=20
> From talking to Hasbro, they appear to have no idea what DQ is or
> whether they own it but have let us use the name and put=20
> material on the
> net anyway if they do own it.=20
>=20
> I wouldn't worry too much, it only becomes an issue if we wanted to
> actually release it as a game for profit, othewise people seem pretty
> happy to leave us alone and get on with things.=20
>=20
> The downside to investigating is people might start to notice and/or
> care.=20
>=20
> Mandos
> /s
>=20
>=20
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>=20

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<TITLE>RE: [dq] DQ ownership?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What is on the 2004 Rulebook is:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Copyright</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>DragonQuest is copyright to Simulations =
Publications, Inc. First Edition, Copyright=A9 1980. Second Edition, =
Copyright=A9 1981.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The named contributors assert their right to this =
work. This rule book is copylefted under the GNU Public License, =
version 2.0.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>A list of Contributors is given.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos Mitchinson</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 15:28</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] DQ ownership?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; We may wish to talk about the ownership of =
DragonQuest at </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; some point? Who knows the legal status of =
'us' and our use of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ' and the =
Ownership of it by PSI -&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; TSR -&gt; WOC -&gt; Hasbro?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; We should attempt to find out and credit =
the correct people </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; if we can IMO. What do others =
think?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From talking to Hasbro, they appear to have no =
idea what DQ is or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; whether they own it but have let us use the =
name and put </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; material on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; net anyway if they do own it. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I wouldn't worry too much, it only becomes an =
issue if we wanted to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; actually release it as a game for profit, =
othewise people seem pretty</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; happy to leave us alone and get on with things. =
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; The downside to investigating is people might =
start to notice and/or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; care. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; /s</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:33:28 +1300
> From talking to Hasbro, they appear to have no idea what DQ 
> is or whether they own it but have let us use the name and 
> put material on the net anyway if they do own it. 

Just as an expansion on this...

I contacted Hasbro a year or two ago asking if there were any issues
with posting the rules on the net as a few people were concerned. The
response I got back basically says as long as we don't use any pictures
from Magic the Gathering Cards we can do what we like. 

Hasbro are the company that should currently own the material as I
follow the chain of purchases. We have their permission to publish and
use the original DQ stuff and they have lots of lawyers so I figure we
leave sleeping dogs lie and we won't have to worry about it. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromStephen Martin
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:34:38 +1300 (NZDT)
I think Mandos got an Email from Hasbro at some point stating that if it wasn't D&D and it wasn't
magic and we weren't making any money from it then they don't care.

I may have a copy of that email at home.

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean - TME said:
> Hi all,
>
> We may wish to talk about the ownership of DragonQuest at some point? Who knows the legal status
> of 'us' and our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ' and the Ownership of it by PSI -> TSR -> WOC ->
> Hasbro?
>
> We should attempt to find out and credit the correct people if we can IMO. What do others think?
>
> Jonathan Bean
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --


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Subject[dq] Copyright
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 15:40:28 +1300
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See below, and following discussion.

-----Original Message-----
From: mandos@iconz.net [mailto:mandos@iconz.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 11:47
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Copyright



After the discussions on copyright and the placing of the rules on the Web I
have been in contact with Wizards of the Coast and discussed our issues.

Basically they are happy for us to have the site with any information and
details we like. If they have a problem they will ask me to remove it.

Basically the gist of his message is that as long as it is not D&D or Magic
the Gathering they really don't care at all. I was asked to put a copyright
disclaimer on the site which has been done.

Mandos
/s


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>See below, and following discussion.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: mandos@iconz.net [<A HREF="mailto:mandos@iconz.net">mailto:mandos@iconz.net</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2002 11:47</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: [dq] Copyright</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>After the discussions on copyright and the placing of the rules on the Web I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have been in contact with Wizards of the Coast and discussed our issues.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Basically they are happy for us to have the site with any information and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>details we like. If they have a problem they will ask me to remove it.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Basically the gist of his message is that as long as it is not D&amp;D or Magic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the Gathering they really don't care at all. I was asked to put a copyright</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>disclaimer on the site which has been done.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>/s</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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Subject[dq] Rulebook stuff needing vote
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:19:38 +1300
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Hello everyone

Various issues have come up while putting together the Rulebook that I feel
need a vote. Many are quite minor, but I don't want to change them without
confirmation as it would set a bad precedent*. Many have such a small impact
on the game in practice that they can be left out for now (although
addressing them as a block soon will save them still being an issue next
time).

The more important/urgent ones I will do separate posts for this week
(starting tonight).
If I get a clear indication of the group's consensus on the posted issues,
I'll include them in the pdf to be available at the meeting. I'm not
comfortable with spending money in anticipation of vote results, so bound
copies will NOT be available at the meeting. I think we should be able to
get printed copies to those playing within two weeks of the meeting.
If people think that we should delay publication because of this, please say
so now.

*or not, as you tell me the Rulebook can't be issued with unauthorised
changes, and rough me up a bit.

I've put all the issues I've identified at
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Found_Issues
Note that the Wiki has one discussion page per main page, NOT section, so
setting up a sub-page for issues likely to spark discussions/edits is useful
(e.g. the Namer Ranking).

By no means all of them are show-stoppers.

Please DON'T reply to this email with discussion of the specifics of the
points raised below, save it for my later posts.


The ones that I think are urgent are:

50 Weaponsmith: The voted-in formula gave silly results, and there was some
discussion about what should be there instead.
50 Weaponsmith: Do they get the discount for being higher ranked Armourers
that Armourer says they do?

26 Rune College warning: My feeling is that a stronger warning than normal
would be best, please discuss

46 Spy: Clarify that they get to choose an optional ability at Rank 0

51 Grievous Injury Table: Does mentioning alternatives specifically for this
table add anything useful?


Things that I think are 99% clear and just need better words to make them
obvious (confirm as one vote?):
6 Ranking Names (non-Namers don't get an additional name while ranking)
13 Binder (Golems have MA:None)
25 Necro (Stream of Corruption affects all entities)


Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello everyone</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Various issues have come up while putting together =
the Rulebook that I feel need a vote. Many are quite minor, but I don't =
want to change them without confirmation as it would set a bad =
precedent*. Many have such a small impact on the game in practice that =
they can be left out for now (although addressing them as a block soon =
will save them still being an issue next time).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The more important/urgent ones I will do separate =
posts for this week (starting tonight).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>If I get a clear indication of the group's consensus =
on the posted issues, I'll include them in the pdf to be available at =
the meeting. I'm not comfortable with spending money in anticipation of =
vote results, so bound copies will NOT be available at the meeting. I =
think we should be able to get printed copies to those playing within =
two weeks of the meeting.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If people think that we should delay publication =
because of this, please say so now.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>*or not, as you tell me the Rulebook can't be issued =
with unauthorised changes, and rough me up a bit.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I've put all the issues I've identified at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Found_Issues" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Found_I=
ssues</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Note that the Wiki has one discussion page per main =
page, NOT section, so setting up a sub-page for issues likely to spark =
discussions/edits is useful (e.g. the Namer Ranking).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>By no means all of them are show-stoppers.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please DON'T reply to this email with discussion of =
the specifics of the points raised below, save it for my later =
posts.</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The ones that I think are urgent are:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>50 Weaponsmith: The voted-in formula gave silly =
results, and there was some discussion about what should be there =
instead.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>50 Weaponsmith: Do they get the discount for being =
higher ranked Armourers that Armourer says they do?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>26 Rune College warning: My feeling is that a =
stronger warning than normal would be best, please discuss</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>46 Spy: Clarify that they get to choose an optional =
ability at Rank 0</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>51 Grievous Injury Table: Does mentioning =
alternatives specifically for this table add anything useful?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Things that I think are 99% clear and just need =
better words to make them obvious (confirm as one vote?):</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>6 Ranking Names (non-Namers don't get an additional =
name while ranking)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>13 Binder (Golems have MA:None)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>25 Necro (Stream of Corruption affects all =
entities)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:29:49 +1300
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On 2/20/06, Jonathan Bean - TME <Jonathan@tme.co.nz> wrote:
>
> ...our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'
>

The "DragonQuest" trademark formerly held by TSR was cancelled Jan 10 2004
(according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).  There are currently no
live trademarks for the name.

There are no trademarks for DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro.

Other legal issues may exist, but our use of the terms DQ and DragonQuest
are unlikely to be amongst them.

Cheers,
Martin

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On 2/20/06, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Jonathan Bean - TME</b> &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz">Jonathan@tme.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><spa=
n class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b=
order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; paddin=
g-left: 1ex;">
...our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'<br></blockquote><div><br>The &quot;=
DragonQuest&quot; trademark formerly held by TSR was cancelled Jan 10 2004 =
(according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).&nbsp; There are currentl=
y no live trademarks for the name.
<br><br>There are no trademarks for DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro=
.<br><br>Other legal issues may exist, but our use of the terms DQ and Drag=
onQuest are unlikely to be amongst them.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div>
</div><br>

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Subject[dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:33:12 +1300
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Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank and
alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?

(language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that generally
individual GMs decide what they are.)

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank and alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>(language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that generally individual GMs decide what they are.)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:34:09 +1300
> Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank
and
> alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is? 
> (language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that
generally
> individual GMs decide what they are.) 

Max rank 6 (I just like the number). 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:39:25 +1300
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At some stage there was a document mentioning eastern & southern
merfolk. I don't know where it is, and hope no one finds it, but if
people think there are multiple merfolk tongues, this is the time to
speak out.
=20
Rank 8, illiterate. They do use magic, so should be 8+, but aren't a
major race, or one famed for smartness, so we should avoid Rank 9 or 10.
=20
The language group should be linked to some of the underwater fae -
nixie & fossegrim - the Perfidic group fits nicely.
=20
=20
Andrew

	-----Original Message-----
	From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Errol Cavit
	Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 p.m.
	To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
	Subject: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
=09
=09

	Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the
max rank and alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?=20

	(language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that
generally individual GMs decide what they are.)=20

	Cheers=20
	Errol=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>At=20
some stage there was a document mentioning eastern &amp; southern =
merfolk. I=20
don't know where it is, and hope no one finds it, but if people think =
there are=20
multiple merfolk tongues, this is the time to speak =
out.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Rank=20
8, illiterate. They do use magic, so should be 8+, but aren't a major =
race, or=20
one famed for smartness, so we should avoid Rank 9 or =
10.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>The=20
language group should be linked to some of the underwater fae - nixie=20
&amp;&nbsp;fossegrim - the Perfidic group fits =
nicely.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D729253303-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Errol=20
  Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> =

  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk=20
  Language<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying =
what the=20
  max rank and alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>(language listings aren't a normal part of the =
rulebook in=20
  that generally individual GMs decide what they are.)</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Errol</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 16:43:28 +1300
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Those aren't separate tongues, just dialects! So there! Anyone that says
otherwise is a hack!
:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 16:39
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language


At some stage there was a document mentioning eastern & southern merfolk. I
don't know where it is, and hope no one finds it, but if people think there
are multiple merfolk tongues, this is the time to speak out.
 
Rank 8, illiterate. They do use magic, so should be 8+, but aren't a major
race, or one famed for smartness, so we should avoid Rank 9 or 10.
 
The language group should be linked to some of the underwater fae - nixie &
fossegrim - the Perfidic group fits nicely.
 
 
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language



Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank and
alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is? 

(language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that generally
individual GMs decide what they are.) 

Cheers 
Errol 


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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=237464003-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Those 
aren't separate tongues, just dialects! So there! Anyone that says otherwise is 
a hack!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=237464003-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>:-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Andrew Withy (DSL AK) 
  [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 20 February 2006 
  16:39<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] {Rulebook} 
  Merfolk Language<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>At 
  some stage there was a document mentioning eastern &amp; southern merfolk. I 
  don't know where it is, and hope no one finds it, but if people think there 
  are multiple merfolk tongues, this is the time to speak 
  out.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Rank 
  8, illiterate. They do use magic, so should be 8+, but aren't a major race, or 
  one famed for smartness, so we should avoid Rank 9 or 10.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The 
  language group should be linked to some of the underwater fae - nixie 
  &amp;&nbsp;fossegrim - the Perfidic group fits nicely.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006></SPAN><SPAN 
  class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=729253303-20022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
  size=2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT 
    face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
    dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of 
    </B>Errol Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 
    p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq] {Rulebook} 
    Merfolk Language<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what 
    the max rank and alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>(language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in 
    that generally individual GMs decide what they are.)</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Errol</FONT> 
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 17:05:21 +1300
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Maybe we should put all of these statements on the wiki?

It maybe helpful as some people, other than local DQ people, may be unaware
of this information and form the idea that we are in 'direct breach of
copyright' and have made no effort to clarify the situation?

I was thinking Mandos's correspondance with Hasbro/WoC/TSR could also be
added?

Or will this just create problems?

Jonathan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Martin Dickson
  Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 4:30 p.m.
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
  Subject: Re: [dq] DQ ownership?


  On 2/20/06, Jonathan Bean - TME <Jonathan@tme.co.nz> wrote:
    ...our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'


  The "DragonQuest" trademark formerly held by TSR was cancelled Jan 10 2004
(according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).  There are currently no
live trademarks for the name.

  There are no trademarks for DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro.

  Other legal issues may exist, but our use of the terms DQ and DragonQuest
are unlikely to be amongst them.

  Cheers,
  Martin



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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Maybe=20
we should put all of these statements on the wiki?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>It=20
maybe helpful as some people, other than local DQ people, may be unaware =
of this=20
information and form the idea that we are in 'direct breach of =
copyright' and=20
have made no effort to clarify the situation?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D905420104-20022006></SPAN><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I was=20
thinking Mandos's correspondance with Hasbro/WoC/TSR&nbsp;could also be=20
added?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Or will this just=20
create problems?</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Jonathan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D905420104-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Martin=20
  Dickson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 20 February 2006 4:30 =
p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] DQ=20
  ownership?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>On 2/20/06, <B =
class=3Dgmail_sendername>Jonathan=20
  Bean - TME</B> &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz">Jonathan@tme.co.nz</A>&gt; wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">...our=20
    use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>The "DragonQuest" trademark formerly held by TSR was =
cancelled Jan 10=20
  2004 (according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).&nbsp; There =
are=20
  currently no live trademarks for the name. <BR><BR>There are no =
trademarks for=20
  DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro.<BR><BR>Other legal issues may =
exist,=20
  but our use of the terms DQ and DragonQuest are unlikely to be amongst =

  =
them.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></H=
TML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
FromJonathan Bean - TME
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 17:06:46 +1300
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{Rulebook} Merfolk LanguageI think let Keith and Jaquic do it as they run
games which are more along the line of Merfolk stuff.

Jono

  -----Original Message-----
  From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
  Sent: Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 p.m.
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
  Subject: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language


  Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank and
alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?

  (language listings aren't a normal part of the rulebook in that generally
individual GMs decide what they are.)

  Cheers
  Errol

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>{Rulebook} Merfolk Language</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1528" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D007550504-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
think let Keith&nbsp;and Jaquic do it as they run games which are more =
along the=20
line of Merfolk stuff.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D007550504-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D007550504-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Jono</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D007550504-20022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Errol =
Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Monday, 20 February 2006 4:33 p.m.<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk=20
  Language<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying =
what the=20
  max rank and alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>(language listings aren't a normal part of the =
rulebook in=20
  that generally individual GMs decide what they are.)</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Errol</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq] OT: Firefly guests for Wgtn Armageddon
FromStruan Judd
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 18:57:31 +1300
Cause I feel that people should know.

TTFN, Struan

(PS: I'm not making the mistake again of leaving the DQ list out of
Firefly announcements)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Leigh Aldrich <peebles@ihug.co.nz>
Date: Feb 20, 2006 4:32 PM
Subject: [akldscoobies] OT: Firefly guests for Wgtn Armageddon
To: akldscoobies@yahoogroups.com


Jewel Staite and Summer Glau... Boy I wish I was going to Wellington
Armageddon.

Leigh




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SubjectRe: [dq] DQ ownership?
FromMenolly
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 19:15:28 +1300
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What would be involved if we wanted to "own" DQ, if no-one else has it =
atm? If RedBrick (small NZ group) can get rights to EarthDawn (another =
rping game), we could try and get DQ permanently...

Karen

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] DQ ownership?


  On 2/20/06, Jonathan Bean - TME <Jonathan@tme.co.nz> wrote:
    ...our use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'


  The "DragonQuest" trademark formerly held by TSR was cancelled Jan 10 =
2004 (according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).  There are =
currently no live trademarks for the name.=20

  There are no trademarks for DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro.

  Other legal issues may exist, but our use of the terms DQ and =
DragonQuest are unlikely to be amongst them.

  Cheers,
  Martin





-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What would be involved if we wanted to =
"own" DQ, if=20
no-one else has it atm? If RedBrick (small NZ group)&nbsp;can get rights =
to=20
EarthDawn (another rping game), we could try and get DQ=20
permanently...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Karen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 20, 2006 =
4:29=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] DQ =
ownership?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>On 2/20/06, <B class=3Dgmail_sendername>Jonathan Bean - =
TME</B>=20
  &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:Jonathan@tme.co.nz">Jonathan@tme.co.nz</A>&gt; =
wrote:
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote></SPAN>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">...our=20
    use of 'DragonQuest' and or 'DQ'<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR>The "DragonQuest" trademark formerly held by TSR was =
cancelled Jan 10=20
  2004 (according to the US Patent and Trademark Office).&nbsp; There =
are=20
  currently no live trademarks for the name. <BR><BR>There are no =
trademarks for=20
  DragonQuest or DQ held by WOC or Hasbro.<BR><BR>Other legal issues may =
exist,=20
  but our use of the terms DQ and DragonQuest are unlikely to be amongst =

  them.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV><BR>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>Checked by AVG Free=20
  Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release =
Date:=20
  2/2/06<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} Merfolk Language
Fromraro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
DateMon, 20 Feb 2006 22:57:27 +1300
Quoting Errol Cavit <ecavit@tollnz.co.nz>:

> Is anyone prepared to take responsibility for saying what the max rank and
> alphabet (if any) of Merfolk is?

The notion of languages having differing maximum ranks is complete crap, so why
bother. Just let languages rank to 10. The only real language that we know to
be cognitively more difficult AND common is Russion, and that is 30% more
loquacious than, say, English, for example. So, God knows what they get out of
it.

It's pretty certain no more information is being transferred around, and there
is a reasonable argument to say that in fact there is less.

On the one hand, a language that is difficult to learn is going to be harder to
express general ideas in, and does not seem to be able to provide any better or
more efficient means of communicating more rarefied notions. It is just harder
to use across the board.

The rank that you can advance a language to is a measure of how well you can
express an idea, or so they say. As it turns out, there isn't a language where
that applies. If there were a language where you could increase the rate at
which you communicated by as little as 10%, then we'd all be speaking it.

There IS an argument for the cost of advancing a language, because some
languages are easier to learn than others, and this is empirically testable.
Sadly, languages that are easy to learn don't let you express yourself any
better, either. They're just generally easier to learn.

So, if you are going to talk about whether or not Merfolk have a language that
pcs can rank, then the issue is not what rank it will go to, but how much each
rank will be.

Jim


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