Subject[dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 09:26:17 +1300 
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Could those that have used the Wiki to write full-blown scribe notes like to
share their experiences with the group?
Pros and cons, hints, advice, that sort of thing.

Also comments from other 'users' would be helpful.

Thanks
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Could those that have used the Wiki to write =
full-blown scribe notes like to share their experiences with the =
group?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Pros and cons, hints, advice, that sort of =
thing.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also comments from other 'users' would be =
helpful.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 09:37:36 +1300
> Could those that have used the Wiki to write full-blown scribe notes
like
> to share their experiences with the group? 
> Pros and cons, hints, advice, that sort of thing. 
> Also comments from other 'users' would be helpful. 

Huge fan here......

I am actually writing scribe notes for the first time since I started
playing DQ simply because it is so much easier to do. If I miss
something the other players will add the missing bits and it means you
don't have to fill in lots of info cos you can simply link to the info
elsewhere on the Wiki. 

I also really like the ability to read other scribe notes as they
happen, it means that when GM's are in similar area's there is a greater
chance of them noticing and talking to each other and creating a shared
experience. All good. 

I suspect some kind of standardised layout would be good but that may
reduce the indidivuality of the scribe notes so I am not sure whether
this is good or bad, but time will tell. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromStephen Martin
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 10:04:48 +1300 (NZDT)
I'm a fan, but since I started it I guess that's a given.

Instant visibility for everyone when the scribe notes are updated.
Easy to check where you got up to last week before turning up at dq.
When you encounter previously unknown towns, villages, nobles, villains, etc. they can be added to
the wiki and become part of the shared world straight away.
It's interesting reading the scribe notes of other parties as the adventure evolves.
Potential for the entire party to get involved in contributing to the scribe notes, with asides,
missed details, player errors (as opposed to deliberate character errors), additional materials.

I'm keen on partial standard structure.  A standard header.  And clear delineation between the
in-character bits and the ooc bits - the difference between what the scribing character thought of
the hick town with only one pub and what the GM described to the players which is reusable by
others.

Unique formatting and style is a bit harder on the wiki than in a word doc (or publishing program)
but quite a lot can be achieved once you learn how.  But it's important to remember that the font
that looks cool on your pc in your browser may be unreadable on another pc/browser or when
printed.

Cheers, Stephen.

Errol Cavit said:
> Could those that have used the Wiki to write full-blown scribe notes like to share their
> experiences with the group?
> Pros and cons, hints, advice, that sort of thing.
>
> Also comments from other 'users' would be helpful.
>
> Thanks
> Errol


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromAndrew Luxton-Reilly
DateWed, 08 Mar 2006 10:09:03 +1300
Good.  Easy to use. You can write the notes as the adventure progresses. 
  The rest of the party can read, correct and annotate as they see fit.

Having multiple pages for the same adventure is not recommended though. 
  Having written notes that were split over multiple pages, I can 
recommend that others write the entire set of notes on a single wiki page.

Ciao,
Andrew

Errol Cavit wrote:
> Could those that have used the Wiki to write full-blown scribe notes 
> like to share their experiences with the group?
> Pros and cons, hints, advice, that sort of thing.
> 
> Also comments from other 'users' would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks
> Errol
> 

-- 
-------------------------------
Andrew Luxton-Reilly
Department of Computer Science
University of Auckland
Email: andrew@cs.auckland.ac.nz
Phone: +649-373-7599 x 85654


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 10:14:54 +1300
> Having multiple pages for the same adventure is not 
> recommended though. 
>   Having written notes that were split over multiple pages, I can 
> recommend that others write the entire set of notes on a 
> single wiki page.

Yep from reading those to keep up with what was happening I can confirm
the multi-page idea needs some work. Although I did like the fact that
you had detailed the combats on another page with links. It meant that
the info was recorded but the details of the battles didn't bog down the
main notes. 

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 10:26:11 +1300 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mandos Mitchinson [mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 10:15
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
> 
> 
> > Having multiple pages for the same adventure is not 
> > recommended though. 
> >   Having written notes that were split over multiple pages, I can 
> > recommend that others write the entire set of notes on a 
> > single wiki page.
> 
> Yep from reading those to keep up with what was happening I 
> can confirm
> the multi-page idea needs some work. Although I did like the fact that
> you had detailed the combats on another page with links. It meant that
> the info was recorded but the details of the battles didn't 
> bog down the
> main notes. 

What's an example of a multi-page one?

Splitting off detail of combats would seem to be useful (later parties
looking up notes shouldn't need to look at detail in most cases, so being an
irritation to print or export not much of a factor).
One plus of smaller pages is that the Talk pages are more closely linked
with the content. However this is rarely important for scribe notes, and can
be addressed by using sections on the Talk page as needed.

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Mandos Mitchinson [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz">mailto:MandosM@adhb.govt.nz</A>]</F=
ONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 10:15</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Scribe Notes in the =
Wiki</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Having multiple pages for the same =
adventure is not </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; recommended though. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Having written notes that were =
split over multiple pages, I can </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; recommend that others write the entire set =
of notes on a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; single wiki page.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Yep from reading those to keep up with what was =
happening I </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; can confirm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the multi-page idea needs some work. Although I =
did like the fact that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; you had detailed the combats on another page =
with links. It meant that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the info was recorded but the details of the =
battles didn't </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; bog down the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; main notes. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What's an example of a multi-page one?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Splitting off detail of combats would seem to be =
useful (later parties looking up notes shouldn't need to look at detail =
in most cases, so being an irritation to print or export not much of a =
factor).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>One plus of smaller pages is that the Talk pages are =
more closely linked with the content. However this is rarely important =
for scribe notes, and can be addressed by using sections on the Talk =
page as needed.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromMandos Mitchinson
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 10:29:49 +1300
> What's an example of a multi-page one? 

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Not_all_water_is_wet

Mandos
/s


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
Fromraro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 10:42:11 +1300
Quoting Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net>:


>
> I'm keen on partial standard structure.  A standard header.  And clear
> delineation between the
> in-character bits and the ooc bits - the difference between what the scribing
> character thought of
> the hick town with only one pub and what the GM described to the players
> which is reusable by
> others.
>
> Unique formatting and style is a bit harder on the wiki than in a word doc
> (or publishing program)
> but quite a lot can be achieved once you learn how.  But it's important to
> remember that the font
> that looks cool on your pc in your browser may be unreadable on another
> pc/browser or when
> printed.

How about we don't bother and say we did?

If we don't need to write a rule, why bother? Guidelines are nice if anyone can
be bothered with them, but your chances of developing a workable model of what
is meaningful and at the same time convenient is low.

On the other hand, you could leave it alone, and let the way it is used define
it's shape. The medium is elastic enough that it can withstand a few failed
attempts. So is the readership. Knowing how the tools work is good. After that,
let the chips fall where they may, I say.

Jim.


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromStephen Martin
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 11:15:27 +1300 (NZDT)
Re-reading what I wrote I can't find anywhere that says I want to impose rules or even guidelines.
I expressed my personal preference for what I like at the moment.

The wiki is a collaborative evolving medium, its strength is the variety of ideas and ways of
doing things that are fed into it.
It has changed from what I started, and I expect it to continue changing as good/popular ideas are
replicated.

I'm happy to be pulled up on my bad ideas, but I feel like words are being put in my mouth when
you disagree with something I didn't say.

Cheers, Stephen.

> Quoting Stephen Martin <stephenm@castle.pointclark.net>:
>
>> I'm keen on partial standard structure.  A standard header.  And clear delineation between the
>> in-character bits and the ooc bits - the difference between what the scribing character
>> thought of
>> the hick town with only one pub and what the GM described to the players which is reusable by
>> others.
>>
>> Unique formatting and style is a bit harder on the wiki than in a word doc (or publishing
>> program)
>> but quite a lot can be achieved once you learn how.  But it's important to remember that the
>> font
>> that looks cool on your pc in your browser may be unreadable on another pc/browser or when
>> printed.
>
> How about we don't bother and say we did?
>
> If we don't need to write a rule, why bother? Guidelines are nice if anyone can be bothered with
> them, but your chances of developing a workable model of what is meaningful and at the same time
> convenient is low.
>
> On the other hand, you could leave it alone, and let the way it is used define it's shape. The
> medium is elastic enough that it can withstand a few failed attempts. So is the readership.
> Knowing how the tools work is good. After that, let the chips fall where they may, I say.
>
> Jim.


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SubjectRe: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 8 Mar 2006 17:41:41 +1300 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Martin [mailto:stephenm@castle.pointclark.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 10:05
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Scribe Notes in the Wiki
> 
> 
> I'm a fan, but since I started it I guess that's a given.
> 

Well you could have started it and found that it didn't work out in
practice, so not quite a given.

> Instant visibility for everyone when the scribe notes are updated.
> Easy to check where you got up to last week before turning up at dq.

Assuming everyone in the party has easy web access, it works better in this
respect than email I assume. e.g. people can make corrections straight away
rather than having a back-and-forth. Also minor typos etc are likely to be
fixed rather than ignored (because you feel silly pointing out mis-spellings
in email). Otherwise these benefits also apply to notes that are e-mailed
out in a timely fashion.
One minor downside is that you can get a bit of flavour from errors made and
not fixed by the scribe (that become in-character mis-understandings/artful
omissions etc).


> When you encounter previously unknown towns, villages, 
> nobles, villains, etc. they can be added to
> the wiki and become part of the shared world straight away.

This can happen without the scribe notes being on the Wiki as well (we added
notes on several pubs in Spring), but it is less likely.



> It's interesting reading the scribe notes of other parties as 
> the adventure evolves.


One downside of this is that sometimes the party don't want some things
widely known. Sometimes they don't realise this until later! Like the time
we discovered that the monster we had fought while incommunicado was
actually a highly deformed royal prince, and if the wrong political faction
came to power and found out about it (or these happened in the opposite
order), we were liable to be executed. "We keep it a secret" is more
convincing when other players haven't read it already. The Rashak-hunters
excluded some info during gametime, correct?

Is there a 'no access except for X, Y, and Z' function available?


> Potential for the entire party to get involved in 
> contributing to the scribe notes, with asides,
> missed details, player errors (as opposed to deliberate 
> character errors), additional materials.

Looks to be strong point of the Wiki. Better quality notes. Scribe probably
happier with throwing a rough version up if they are short on time that
week, as everyone can help tidy it up.


> 
> I'm keen on partial standard structure.  A standard header.  

Setting out GM, Session, Party Employer etc at the top, that kind of thing?

I think 2 or 3 templates that people can modify (e.g a Flora and Fauna
section would be very helpful while performing a mission in a magical
forest, but pointless for a political mission in MMHS) or ignore would be
useful. Shows people different possible structures, bonus if people comment
on strengths and weaknesses of different approaches.

> And clear delineation between the
> in-character bits and the ooc bits - the difference between 
> what the scribing character thought of
> the hick town with only one pub and what the GM described to 
> the players which is reusable by
> others.

The Wiki isn't always strong on this distinction. Pubs entries should have
comments sections! :-)



> 
> Unique formatting and style is a bit harder on the wiki than 
> in a word doc (or publishing program)
> but quite a lot can be achieved once you learn how.  But it's 
> important to remember that the font
> that looks cool on your pc in your browser may be unreadable 
> on another pc/browser or when
> printed.


How hard is it to write in standard formatting during the season, then
export to html for tarting up before formally submitting? Benefits of
maximum utility while playing, but extra flavour later.

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Stephen Martin [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:stephenm@castle.pointclark.net">mailto:stephenm@castle.po=
intclark.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 8 March 2006 10:05</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Scribe Notes in the =
Wiki</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I'm a fan, but since I started it I guess =
that's a given.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Well you could have started it and found that it =
didn't work out in practice, so not quite a given.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Instant visibility for everyone when the scribe =
notes are updated.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Easy to check where you got up to last week =
before turning up at dq.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Assuming everyone in the party has easy web access, =
it works better in this respect than email I assume. e.g. people can =
make corrections straight away rather than having a back-and-forth. =
Also minor typos etc are likely to be fixed rather than ignored =
(because you feel silly pointing out mis-spellings in email). Otherwise =
these benefits also apply to notes that are e-mailed out in a timely =
fashion.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>One minor downside is that you can get a bit of =
flavour from errors made and not fixed by the scribe (that become =
in-character mis-understandings/artful omissions etc).</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; When you encounter previously unknown towns, =
villages, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; nobles, villains, etc. they can be added =
to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the wiki and become part of the shared world =
straight away.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This can happen without the scribe notes being on the =
Wiki as well (we added notes on several pubs in Spring), but it is less =
likely.</FONT></P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; It's interesting reading the scribe notes of =
other parties as </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the adventure evolves.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>One downside of this is that sometimes the party =
don't want some things widely known. Sometimes they don't realise this =
until later! Like the time we discovered that the monster we had fought =
while incommunicado was actually a highly deformed royal prince, and if =
the wrong political faction came to power and found out about it (or =
these happened in the opposite order), we were liable to be executed. =
&quot;We keep it a secret&quot; is more convincing when other players =
haven't read it already. The Rashak-hunters excluded some info during =
gametime, correct?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is there a 'no access except for X, Y, and Z' =
function available?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Potential for the entire party to get involved =
in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; contributing to the scribe notes, with =
asides,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; missed details, player errors (as opposed to =
deliberate </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; character errors), additional materials.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Looks to be strong point of the Wiki. Better quality =
notes. Scribe probably happier with throwing a rough version up if they =
are short on time that week, as everyone can help tidy it =
up.</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I'm keen on partial standard structure.&nbsp; A =
standard header.&nbsp; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Setting out GM, Session, Party Employer etc at the =
top, that kind of thing?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think 2 or 3 templates that people can modify (e.g =
a Flora and Fauna section would be very helpful while performing a =
mission in a magical forest, but pointless for a political mission in =
MMHS) or ignore would be useful. Shows people different possible =
structures, bonus if people comment on strengths and weaknesses of =
different approaches.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; And clear delineation between the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; in-character bits and the ooc bits - the =
difference between </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; what the scribing character thought of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the hick town with only one pub and what the GM =
described to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the players which is reusable by</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; others.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Wiki isn't always strong on this distinction. =
Pubs entries should have comments sections! :-)</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Unique formatting and style is a bit harder on =
the wiki than </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; in a word doc (or publishing program)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; but quite a lot can be achieved once you learn =
how.&nbsp; But it's </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; important to remember that the font</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; that looks cool on your pc in your browser may =
be unreadable </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; on another pc/browser or when</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; printed.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>How hard is it to write in standard formatting during =
the season, then export to html for tarting up before formally =
submitting? Benefits of maximum utility while playing, but extra =
flavour later.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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