SubjectRe: [dq] Mithril Vs Truesilver
FromAndrew Withy \(DSL AK\)
DateMon, 28 Aug 2006 08:28:55 +1200
While I unequivocally believe each of Stephen's explanations, if you use
the true silver value (1 true silver guinea = 252sp, 1 pound = 40,320sp)
for mithral, it costs around 500ksp for human sized chain mail (12
pounds) in raw material costs, before manufacture, crafting, or rarity
value. This is :
(a) a sensible way to price armour
(b) proof that mage armour is way too cheap
(c) ridiculously expensive
(d) proof that true silver is more valuable than mithral
(e) the pricing method for my PCs armour cost
(f) irrelevant.


Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Sunday, 27 August 2006 11:45 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Mithril Vs Truesilver

This is a question that has never been answered consistently.
Some common answers:
1) They are the same.
2) Mithril is a Dwarven alloy including True Silver.
3) True Silver is an Elven metal created from Silver and Mithril.
4) Both are alloys of Silver and Star Silver.
5) True Silver is magical, Mithril is simply very strong and light.
6) There is no relation except for some similar properties.
...

All of these answers have been shown to be true, pick which one you want
to believe.  One of them might be true, or all of them, or none of them.
It is one of the mysteries of Alusia.
Rumours of Jihads of Dwarven and Elven metalurgists who will kill and
destroy to protect the truth are obviously false.

Cheers, Stephen.

Bernard Hoggins wrote:
> Whats the difference in these two materials, I assume there is some as

> Mithril is listed specifically on the armour table, but what exactly
is the difference?
> Anyone know.
>
>
>>From Bernard Hoggins
> nevyn0ad@yahoo.co.uk
>
> ---------------------------------
> On Yahoo!7
>   360°: Share your blog, photos, interests and what matters most 
> to you


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SubjectRe: [dq] Mithril Vs Truesilver
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 28 Aug 2006 09:40:37 +1200
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On 8/27/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
>
> This is a question that has never been answered consistently.


All IMO / IMHO (of course)....

Some common answers:
> 1) They are the same.


Patently false. One cannot make armour from truesilver and have it protect
as mitril.  Whatever the relationship between the two, truesilver is not
mithril.

2) Mithril is a Dwarven alloy including True Silver.


Highly possible.  This fits with the history / mythology of mithril while
tying in truesilver.  Mithril may well be a truesilver alloy in the same way
that steel is an alloy of iron.

3) True Silver is an Elven metal created from Silver and Mithril.


Unlikely.  This would tend to indicate that mithril would be more readily
available than truesilver (unless mithril makes only a tiny proportin of the
mix) --  truesilver may be bought in ingots; when was the last time you saw
mithril ingots / "pig" mithril for sale?  Also this tends to run counter to
both the history / mythology of mithril and suggest that all truesilver must
come out of elven lands (again not supported).

4) Both are alloys of Silver and Star Silver.


Unlikely, although it is possible that mithil has some relationship to star
silver.  Star silver has magical / radioactive properties and is usually
found as a power source in certain magical creations.  It is also highly
toxic.  Neither truesilver nor mithril exhibits similar properties.  It
could be that star silver is used in the manufacture of mithril but there is
not evidence for this.

5) True Silver is magical, Mithril is simply very strong and light.


Patently false. Truesilver has no magical aura -- it is not magical. Mithril
has been seen in "cold" form in armour where it too has no aura.  However,
armour made from mithril is often also shaped; this could easily lead to
confusion.

6) There is no relation except for some similar properties.


Possible.  Even then, their "similar properties" are limited to basically a
silvery colour and a lack of magical impedance.

All of these answers have been shown to be true...


Except one hope for the testably false ones. :-)

Rumours of Jihads of Dwarven and Elven metalurgists who will kill and
> destroy to protect the truth are obviously false.


Agreed. There is no evidence for a secret conspiracy to protect the secrets
of mithril manufacture. :-)

Cheers,
Martin

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On 8/27/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Stephen Martin</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
This is a question that has never been answered consistently.</blockquote><div><br>All IMO / IMHO (of course)....<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Some common answers:<br>1) They are the same.</blockquote><div><br>Patently false. One cannot make armour from truesilver and have it protect as mitril.&nbsp; Whatever the relationship between the two, truesilver is not mithril. 
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">2) Mithril is a Dwarven alloy including True Silver.</blockquote><div><br>Highly possible.&nbsp; This fits with the history / mythology of mithril while tying in truesilver.&nbsp; Mithril may well be a truesilver alloy in the same way that steel is an alloy of iron.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">3) True Silver is an Elven metal created from Silver and Mithril.</blockquote>
<div><br>Unlikely.&nbsp; This would tend to indicate that mithril would be more readily available than truesilver (unless mithril makes only a tiny proportin of the mix) --&nbsp; truesilver may be bought in ingots; when was the last time you saw mithril ingots / &quot;pig&quot; mithril for sale?&nbsp; Also this tends to run counter to both the history / mythology of mithril and suggest that all truesilver must come out of elven lands (again not supported).
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">4) Both are alloys of Silver and Star Silver.</blockquote><div><br>Unlikely, although it is possible that mithil has some relationship to star silver.&nbsp; Star silver has magical / radioactive properties and is usually found as a power source in certain magical creations.&nbsp; It is also highly toxic.&nbsp; Neither truesilver nor mithril exhibits similar properties.&nbsp; It could be that star silver is used in the manufacture of mithril but there is not evidence for this.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">5) True Silver is magical, Mithril is simply very strong and light.</blockquote>
<div><br>Patently false. Truesilver has no magical aura -- it is not magical. Mithril has been seen in &quot;cold&quot; form in armour where it too has no aura.&nbsp; However, armour made from mithril is often also shaped; this could easily lead to confusion.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">6) There is no relation except for some similar properties.</blockquote><div><br>
Possible.&nbsp; Even then, their &quot;similar properties&quot; are limited to basically a silvery colour and a lack of magical impedance.<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
All of these answers have been shown to be true...</blockquote><div><br>Except one hope for the testably false ones. :-) <br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Rumours of Jihads of Dwarven and Elven metalurgists who will kill and destroy to protect the truth are obviously false.</blockquote><div><br>Agreed. There is no evidence for a secret conspiracy to protect the secrets of mithril manufacture. :-)
<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Mithril Vs Truesilver
FromMartin Dickson
DateMon, 28 Aug 2006 09:57:15 +1200
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On 8/28/06, DSL AK) <AndrewW@datacom.co.nz> <Andrew\Withy\\> wrote:
>
> if you use the true silver value (1 true silver guinea  252sp, 1
> pound  40,320sp) for mithral, it costs around 500ksp for human sized chain
> mail...


Gandalf said of Bilbo's mithril coat that it was worth more than the
Shire... (whatever that may have been worth).

In any case, a very high $ value for mithril is consistent with its
mythology.

Cheers,
Martin

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On 8/28/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">DSL AK) &lt;<a href="mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</a>&gt;</b> &lt;Andrew\Withy\\&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
if you use the true silver value (1 true silver guinea&nbsp;&nbsp;252sp, 1 pound&nbsp;&nbsp;40,320sp) for mithral, it costs around 500ksp for human sized chain mail...</blockquote><div><br>Gandalf said of Bilbo's mithril coat that it was worth more than the Shire... (whatever that may have been worth).
<br><br>In any case, a very high $ value for mithril is consistent with its mythology.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br><br><br><br>&nbsp;</div><br></div><br>

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