I think Lalangue with some Volkspracht (or however they are spelt) is
fine for Ormond. I was more worried about avoiding making Ranke into
another "foreign"-speaking country, as it is a neighbour with a long
history of guild adventuring.

Clare, put what you think it should be on the Wiki, and it will have
been so for all eternity.

Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Clare Baldock
Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 9:14 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond


On 11/09/2006, at 18:58, carojono wrote:

>
> Clare said:
> At home: The write-up of Ithilmor's fief from Alistair Ramsden 
> indicates that we got some people from Northern Aquila to move in.
>
> I would expect that Folksprach is the language in question. Carl 
> Reynolds used Folksprach as the main language of his section of North 
> West Aqulia.

In that case it sounds likely that Alistair intended that the local
language was Lalange and the imports spoke Folksprach.

Are people happy to go with that or do we prefer Andrew Withy's
suggestion (Common with Lalange) as the language for Ormond?

I don't really mind - the reason I ask is that Ithilmor has ranked a
language known on her character sheet as "local language of Ormond"  
and has never managed to get a straight answer as to what it is! I
wanted to rank it some more - but as it was going to get into the useful
range, I want to know what it is!

cheers,

Clare


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No particular GM's manage the trainers.
If you are ranking Beastmaster /Dog with Briar as your subject then you=20
don't need any specific input from a GM.

If you want a higher ranked beastmaster to help you train Briar then work=20
out what is required by the beastmaster rules and make sure that Menolly=20
is available for half days during the training time (otherwise will=20
respond more to the trainer than to her).  Write it up clearly and get any =

GM to sign it off.

Availiblity of a trainer shouldn't be a major issue unless more than rank=20
8 is needed to acheive your goals.=20

Regards,
Rosemary




Menolly <menolly@es.co.nz>=20
Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
11/09/2006 09:31 p.m.
Please respond to
dq@dq.sf.org.nz


To
dq@dq.sf.org.nz
cc

Subject
Re: [dq] a question about beasts






> I'm hoping someone can help with some OOC questions, as I'm trying to
write
> up some stuff to do with Briar, Menolly's puppy, and something she wants
to
> research/look into/maybe do this quarter. I've had a look through the=20
wiki
and
> other resources and haven't really found what I'm looking for.
>
> 3) There is a farm mentioned on the wiki, called Strecker's Farm, with=20
the
> primary contact: Master Bowgone WormRider. Is there a particular=20
person/gm
I
> should talk to if I want to interact with the farm or Master Bowgone,=20
with
a
> special task in mind? Or will any GM person do?
>
> Help?
>
> Karen


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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">No particular GM's manage the traine=
rs.</font><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">If you are ranking Beastma=
ster /Dog
with Briar as your subject then you don't need any specific input from
a GM.</font><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">If you want a higher=
 ranked beastmaster
to help you train Briar then work out what is required by the beastmaster
rules and make sure that Menolly is available for half days during the
training time (otherwise will respond more to the trainer than to her).
&nbsp;Write it up clearly and get any GM to sign it off.</font><br><br><fon=
t size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Availiblity of a trainer shouldn't be
a major issue unless more than rank 8 is needed to acheive your goals.
&nbsp;</font><br><br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Regards,<br>Rosemar=
y<br></font><br><br><br><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td width=3D40=
%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Menolly &lt;menolly@es.co.nz&gt;</b=
></font><br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.=
nz</font><p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">11/09/2006 09:31 p.m.</font>=
<table border><tr valign=3Dtop><td bgcolor=3Dwhite><div align=3Dcenter><fon=
t size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Please respond to<br>dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font><=
/div></table><br><td width=3D59%><table width=3D100%><tr valign=3Dtop><td><=
div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div><td><fo=
nt size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</font><tr valign=3Dtop><td>=
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div><td><t=
r valign=3Dtop><td><div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Su=
bject</font></div><td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: [dq] a questio=
n about beasts</font></table><br><table><tr valign=3Dtop><td><td></table><b=
r></table><br><br><br><tt><font size=3D2>&gt; I'm hoping someone can help w=
ith some OOC questions,
as I'm trying to<br>write<br>&gt; up some stuff to do with Briar, Menolly's=
 puppy, and something she
wants<br>to<br>&gt; research/look into/maybe do this quarter. I've had a lo=
ok through
the wiki<br>and<br>&gt; other resources and haven't really found what I'm l=
ooking for.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; 3) There is a farm mentioned on the wiki, calle=
d Strecker's Farm,
with the<br>&gt; primary contact: Master Bowgone WormRider. Is there a part=
icular person/gm<br>I<br>&gt; should talk to if I want to interact with the=
 farm or Master Bowgone,
with<br>a<br>&gt; special task in mind? Or will any GM person do?<br>&gt;<b=
r>&gt; Help?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Karen<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mail=
to:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --<br><br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - =
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br><font face=3D"sans-serif"><BR><BR><FONT Size=3D1><BR>Attention: This mes=
sage and accompanying data are confidential and may contain information tha=
t is subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, you=
 are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this =
message or data is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, pl=
ease notify us immediately and erase all copies of the message and attachme=
nts. This email and any attachments may contain views or opinions that are =
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On 9/12/06, DSL AK) <AndrewW@datacom.co.nz> <Andrew\Withy\\> wrote:
>
> I was more worried about avoiding making Ranke into another
> "foreign"-speaking country, as it is a neighbour with a long
> history of guild adventuring.


Add in a goodly percentage of Common speakers (50-60%) and it can be both
local and foreign.

Provided that even the beginners with their starting language ranks can find
someone to talk to, then the widespread use of other languages becomes just
a flavouring aspect of the area and not an impediment to gaming.

- Martin

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On 9/12/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">DSL AK) &lt;<a href="mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</a>&gt;</b> &lt;Andrew\Withy\\&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I was more worried about avoiding making Ranke into another &quot;foreign&quot;-speaking country, as it is a neighbour with a long<br>history of guild adventuring.</blockquote><div><br>Add in a goodly percentage of Common speakers (50-60%) and it can be both local and foreign.
<br><br>Provided that even the beginners with their starting language ranks can find someone to talk to, then the widespread use of other languages becomes just a flavouring aspect of the area and not an impediment to gaming.
<br><br>- Martin<br></div></div><br>

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On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 08:01, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:
> I think Lalangue with some Volkspracht (or however they are spelt) is
> fine for Ormond. I was more worried about avoiding making Ranke into
> another "foreign"-speaking country, as it is a neighbour with a long
> history of guild adventuring.

Anathea grew up in southern Ranke and has no ranks in Lalangue or
Volkspracht. It had never occured to me prior to this discussion that
this might not be correct. I'll have to sweet-talk a GM into
retroactively changing some language options if I return to Auckland and
Ranke becomes non-Common speaking.


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This looks like a good time to gently encourage people to add pages for the
more common multi-location languages that don't yet have their own pages on
the Wiki.
There is already one for Lalange, and the few sentences that are there are a
starting point of what would be useful to include.

The languages in the rulebook are listed at
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Languages
so that is a good place to link from, and there is a Language Category, so
include the code [[Category:Language]] on new pages.

Cheers
Errol

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 08:02
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond
> 
> 
> I think Lalangue with some Volkspracht (or however they are spelt) is
> fine for Ormond. I was more worried about avoiding making Ranke into
> another "foreign"-speaking country, as it is a neighbour with a long
> history of guild adventuring.
> 
> Clare, put what you think it should be on the Wiki, and it will have
> been so for all eternity.
> 
> Andrew
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On 
> Behalf Of
> Clare Baldock
> Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 9:14 p.m.
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond
> 
> 
> On 11/09/2006, at 18:58, carojono wrote:
> 
> >
> > Clare said:
> > At home: The write-up of Ithilmor's fief from Alistair Ramsden 
> > indicates that we got some people from Northern Aquila to move in.
> >
> > I would expect that Folksprach is the language in question. Carl 
> > Reynolds used Folksprach as the main language of his 
> section of North 
> > West Aqulia.
> 
> In that case it sounds likely that Alistair intended that the local
> language was Lalange and the imports spoke Folksprach.
> 
> Are people happy to go with that or do we prefer Andrew Withy's
> suggestion (Common with Lalange) as the language for Ormond?
> 
> I don't really mind - the reason I ask is that Ithilmor has ranked a
> language known on her character sheet as "local language of Ormond"  
> and has never managed to get a straight answer as to what it is! I
> wanted to rank it some more - but as it was going to get into 
> the useful
> range, I want to know what it is!
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Clare
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Languages: Ormond</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This looks like a good time to gently encourage =
people to add pages for the more common multi-location languages that =
don't yet have their own pages on the Wiki.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is already one for Lalange, and the few =
sentences that are there are a starting point of what would be useful =
to include.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The languages in the rulebook are listed at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Languages" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Languag=
es</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>so that is a good place to link from, and there is a =
Language Category, so include the code [[Category:Language]] on new =
pages.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</A>]<=
/FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 08:02</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I think Lalangue with some Volkspracht (or =
however they are spelt) is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; fine for Ormond. I was more worried about =
avoiding making Ranke into</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; another &quot;foreign&quot;-speaking country, =
as it is a neighbour with a long</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; history of guild adventuring.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Clare, put what you think it should be on the =
Wiki, and it will have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; been so for all eternity.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Andrew</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>] =
On </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Clare Baldock</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Monday, 11 September 2006 9:14 =
p.m.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; On 11/09/2006, at 18:58, carojono wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Clare said:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; At home: The write-up of Ithilmor's fief =
from Alistair Ramsden </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; indicates that we got some people from =
Northern Aquila to move in.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; I would expect that Folksprach is the =
language in question. Carl </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Reynolds used Folksprach as the main =
language of his </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; section of North </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; West Aqulia.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; In that case it sounds likely that Alistair =
intended that the local</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; language was Lalange and the imports spoke =
Folksprach.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Are people happy to go with that or do we =
prefer Andrew Withy's</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; suggestion (Common with Lalange) as the =
language for Ormond?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I don't really mind - the reason I ask is that =
Ithilmor has ranked a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; language known on her character sheet as =
&quot;local language of Ormond&quot;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and has never managed to get a straight answer =
as to what it is! I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; wanted to rank it some more - but as it was =
going to get into </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the useful</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; range, I want to know what it is!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Clare</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A> --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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> I think Lalangue with some Volkspracht (or however they
> are spelt) is fine for Ormond. I was more worried about
> avoiding making Ranke into another "foreign"-speaking
> country, as it is a neighbour with a long history of guild
> adventuring.

That works for me as well ... I also see Common being rather
common there as well (pardon the pun) as I believe it to be
a trading language and I believe a lot o9f trade comes
through Ranke.

Keith


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> This looks like a good time to gently encourage people to
> add pages for the more common multi-location languages
> that don't yet have their own pages on the Wiki.

Heh ..

I could write a Pasifikan primer .. once I get back from the
Cook Islands.

Keith


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> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> phaeton@ihug.co.nz
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 11:13
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond
> 
> 
> > This looks like a good time to gently encourage people to
> > add pages for the more common multi-location languages
> > that don't yet have their own pages on the Wiki.
> 
> Heh ..
> 
> I could write a Pasifikan primer .. once I get back from the
> Cook Islands.

While a little language detail on the Pasifika page would be useful (and I
certainly don't mean to discourage anyone adding content where-ever they
can), I was mainly referring to languages that are spoken in many places. 

Currently there isn't an easy way to work out the various places that e.g.
Reichspiel is spoken. The logical next step from this is checking the pages
for the various Alusian locations for consistency with the languages pages,
so we have a better chance of everyone working with the same version of the
truth.

Most languages on the Language page can he handled by a simple link to the
single location involved e.g. "[[Pasifika|Pasifikan[8]]]" and maybe adding a
sentence or two to the location's page.

Cheers
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; phaeton@ihug.co.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 11:13</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Languages: Ormond</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; This looks like a good time to gently =
encourage people to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; add pages for the more common =
multi-location languages</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; that don't yet have their own pages on the =
Wiki.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Heh ..</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I could write a Pasifikan primer .. once I get =
back from the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Cook Islands.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>While a little language detail on the Pasifika page =
would be useful (and I certainly don't mean to discourage anyone adding =
content where-ever they can), I was mainly referring to languages that =
are spoken in many places. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Currently there isn't an easy way to work out the =
various places that e.g. Reichspiel is spoken. The logical next step =
from this is checking the pages for the various Alusian locations for =
consistency with the languages pages, so we have a better chance of =
everyone working with the same version of the truth.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Most languages on the Language page can he handled by =
a simple link to the single location involved e.g. =
&quot;[[Pasifika|Pasifikan[8]]]&quot; and maybe adding a sentence or =
two to the location's page.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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When I started two of my human characters I had no idea where in the world they could have come
from, nor what language they would speak.  So they both speak Common as their 'native language'.
At the time most GMs had no idea either so every human you met spoke common too.

But in the last few years the world has become more defined, the definition is available to a
wider group, and it is mostly possible to research on-line where your character could have come
from.

Now I can retro-fit pre-adventuring histories for my characters and I am faced with two choices:
- Rank a human language for the region where I want to have come from and pretend I always had it.
But speak common without a Lalange, Folksprach, or Riechspiel accent.
- Or pick an area where common is the native language.

To support the second option I think we should keep a few areas of the West as Common-speaking
regions.
I think Carzala should be one of those (in-game justification is that the original immigrants came
from lots of different places and Common was the only language they had in common).
But I think there should be a few other areas where common is native.

Perhaps we could say that there are a few coastal and river trading cities where they have evolved
into speaking Common as the primary language.

Cheers, Stephen.

Michael Woodhams wrote:
> Anathea grew up in southern Ranke and has no ranks in Lalangue or
> Volkspracht. It had never occured to me prior to this discussion that
> this might not be correct. I'll have to sweet-talk a GM into
> retroactively changing some language options if I return to Auckland and
> Ranke becomes non-Common speaking.


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>Now I can retro-fit pre-adventuring histories for my characters and I am
faced with two choices:
>- Rank a human language for the region where I want to have come from and
pretend I always had it.
>But speak common without a Lalange, Folksprach, or Riechspiel accent.

Everyone has an accent American, Australian, English, Kiwi, Asian or French.
Most of the time due to exposure to overseas TV programing unless its very
strong we take no notice.
In a trading port like Seagate or among the mixed group we get at the Guild
a trace accent wouldn't be noted. And by the time you speak common at rank 8
a trace might be all that you have.

>- Or pick an area where common is the native language.

Then you would speak common with a Seagate or whatever trading port accent,
which might be just as noticeable as a an Irishmans or a Canadians.

So in truth you could justify both options.

>To support the second option I think we should keep a few areas of the West
as Common-speaking
>regions.
>I think Carzala should be one of those (in-game justification is that the
original immigrants came
>from lots of different places and Common was the only language they had in
common).
>But I think there should be a few other areas where common is native.

>Perhaps we could say that there are a few coastal and river trading cities
where they have evolved
>into speaking Common as the primary language.

I've got no problem with that, in a boarder town or coastal trading city
where 3,4,5 or more languages may other wise be needed, Common evolving into
the primary language of the lower and middle classes seems logical.

Helen


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If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then
(a) GMs will always ignore this, so you can talk to locals;
(b) Volkspracht or Lalange or whatever becomes the most common tongue in
the baronies, and hence the new "Common" that all adventurers will
learn.

Neither of these results are desirable. Thus we need to have lots of
areas speaking Common. In the baronies, they include most of:
* Artzdorf/Flugelheim
* Brandenburg
* Eltrandor
* Mittlemark
* Ranke
* Western Marches
And in practise, much of the Western Kingdom, even with its
Volkspracht/Lalange labeling.

This is Good, and we shouldn't look at making too large a proportion of
the baronies not speak Common (regardless of realism). Remember, we have
to play in the area, not live in it.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 1:25 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Starting Languages


To support the second option I think we should keep a few areas of the
West as Common-speaking regions.
I think Carzala should be one of those (in-game justification is that
the original immigrants came from lots of different places and Common
was the only language they had in common).
But I think there should be a few other areas where common is native.

Perhaps we could say that there are a few coastal and river trading
cities where they have evolved into speaking Common as the primary
language.

Cheers, Stephen.

Michael Woodhams wrote:
> Anathea grew up in southern Ranke and has no ranks in Lalangue or 
> Volkspracht. It had never occured to me prior to this discussion that 
> this might not be correct. I'll have to sweet-talk a GM into 
> retroactively changing some language options if I return to Auckland 
> and Ranke becomes non-Common speaking.


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On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 15:00, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:
> If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then
> (a) GMs will always ignore this, so you can talk to locals;
> (b) Volkspracht or Lalange or whatever becomes the most common tongue in
> the baronies, and hence the new "Common" that all adventurers will
> learn.
> 
> Neither of these results are desirable. Thus we need to have lots of
> areas speaking Common. In the baronies, they include most of:
> * Artzdorf/Flugelheim
> * Brandenburg
> * Eltrandor
> * Mittlemark
> * Ranke
> * Western Marches

Or have about 10% of people in those regions speak common at rank 6+,
including pretty much all the nobles, sheriffs and priests. The
adventurers can then get by with common, but have an advantage to have
the local language. 

Is it desirable to have (say) just one or two members of the party who
can speak to the peasants without an interpreter? It increases
differentation between characters (good), gives more meaning to their
character background (good), sometimes gets characters who don't
normally do social interaction to do so (good?), possibly results in a
few characters dominating GM time during such interactions (bad).


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Good points: neither extreme is desirable.  The crux of introducing
languages as anything other than an obstacle against the players --not
that that in itself isn't fun! --  is to have some reason for it being
spoken outside its provincial sphere of influence.  E.g., Destinians
were a source of naval innovation, hence it is only natural that
seaports have a smattering of Destinian, even if they no longer trade
directly with Destiny.

Also, the local or personal accent will be important.  Duke Aurelius has
classified thousands of species of beetles, but has an unfailing test
for the two sub-species of elf (those who pronounce Bal-CO-ny correctly,
and them that don't).

Language is both the tool & a product of politics.  Perhaps one reason
that Common is so entrenched in Seagate could be that the local ruler
required all contracts to be written in Common to be considered legal or
enforceable -- in part a reflection of its gaining popularity; in part
to avoid potential conflict between the various nationalities & cultures
in his Domain (especially if he himself was not born in the area).
Maybe Volkspracht has somewhat displaced Reichspiel in the past few
centuries because of the political emergence of the Lords/ Grafs/ Dukes
of Aquila.

On a more ludicrous scale, the profligate flinging of gold coins by
monoglot guildmembers is undoubtedly one reason why most peasants in
Carzala now speak (or at least understand) Common, regardless of the
language their grandparents spoke

Michael Parkinson (Ph 3737 599 ext 85858)
Mathematics & Statistics Subject Librarian
=========================================-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Andrew Withy (DSL AK)
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:01 PM
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Starting Languages

If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then
(a) GMs will always ignore this, so you can talk to locals;
(b) Volkspracht or Lalange or whatever becomes the most common tongue in
the baronies, and hence the new "Common" that all adventurers will
learn.

Neither of these results are desirable. Thus we need to have lots of
areas speaking Common. In the baronies, they include most of:
* Artzdorf/Flugelheim
* Brandenburg
* Eltrandor
* Mittlemark
* Ranke
* Western Marches
And in practise, much of the Western Kingdom, even with its
Volkspracht/Lalange labeling.

This is Good, and we shouldn't look at making too large a proportion of
the baronies not speak Common (regardless of realism). Remember, we have
to play in the area, not live in it.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 1:25 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Starting Languages


To support the second option I think we should keep a few areas of the
West as Common-speaking regions.
I think Carzala should be one of those (in-game justification is that
the original immigrants came from lots of different places and Common
was the only language they had in common).
But I think there should be a few other areas where common is native.

Perhaps we could say that there are a few coastal and river trading
cities where they have evolved into speaking Common as the primary
language.

Cheers, Stephen.

Michael Woodhams wrote:
> Anathea grew up in southern Ranke and has no ranks in Lalangue or 
> Volkspracht. It had never occured to me prior to this discussion that 
> this might not be correct. I'll have to sweet-talk a GM into 
> retroactively changing some language options if I return to Auckland 
> and Ranke becomes non-Common speaking.


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On 9/12/06, DSL AK) <AndrewW@datacom.co.nz> <Andrew\Withy\\> wrote:
>
> If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then...


Most adventurers interact little with the local peasantry -- they tend to
interact with nobles, gentlefolk, and townspeople.

Historically many people spoke multiple languages... as they do today in
almost every country where english is not the native language.

Language percentages given for Baronies areas should either ideally total
over 100%, and most areas will have some level of Common in use..

- Martin

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On 9/12/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">DSL AK) &lt;<a href="mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz">AndrewW@datacom.co.nz</a>&gt;</b> &lt;Andrew\Withy\\&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then...</blockquote><div><br>Most adventurers interact little with the local peasantry -- they tend to interact with nobles, gentlefolk, and townspeople.<br><br>
Historically many people spoke multiple languages... as they do today in almost every country where english is not the native language.<br><br>Language percentages given for Baronies areas should either ideally total over 100%, and most areas will have some level of Common in use..
<br><br>- Martin<br></div><br></div><br>

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
> Michael Woodhams
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:27
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Starting Languages
<snip>
> 
> Or have about 10% of people in those regions speak common at rank 6+,
> including pretty much all the nobles, sheriffs and priests. The
> adventurers can then get by with common, but have an advantage to have
> the local language. 
> 
> Is it desirable to have (say) just one or two members of the party who
> can speak to the peasants without an interpreter? It increases
> differentation between characters (good), gives more meaning to their
> character background (good), sometimes gets characters who don't
> normally do social interaction to do so (good?), possibly results in a
> few characters dominating GM time during such interactions (bad).

I would think that if the locals (or GM) want to be difficult, then who you
are speaking to will have very little Common (I experienced a Turkish
Cypriot border guard losing 4 ranks in English when he decided he didn't
like my name). If a PC knows the language that the locals use among
themselves in the pub, they will be better able to eavesdrop, and may get a
slightly better reaction if they start a conversation in the local lingo.
However as others are said, generally the best role-playing experience is
when the locals you want to talk to can make themselves understood in Common
(or the GM puts a language fix on the inter-planer portal). There are of
course situations when e.g. anyone but elves will be ignored, normally
players will know this before signing up, or it only applies to part of the
adventure.

So, I agree with the 'most people of note have Common at useable levels'
approach in the more commonly played areas.

Cheers
Errol

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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Starting Languages</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Michael Woodhams</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:27</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Starting Languages</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&lt;snip&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Or have about 10% of people in those regions =
speak common at rank 6+,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; including pretty much all the nobles, sheriffs =
and priests. The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; adventurers can then get by with common, but =
have an advantage to have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the local language. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Is it desirable to have (say) just one or two =
members of the party who</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; can speak to the peasants without an =
interpreter? It increases</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; differentation between characters (good), gives =
more meaning to their</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; character background (good), sometimes gets =
characters who don't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; normally do social interaction to do so =
(good?), possibly results in a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; few characters dominating GM time during such =
interactions (bad).</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would think that if the locals (or GM) want to be =
difficult, then who you are speaking to will have very little Common (I =
experienced a Turkish Cypriot border guard losing 4 ranks in English =
when he decided he didn't like my name). If a PC knows the language =
that the locals use among themselves in the pub, they will be better =
able to eavesdrop, and may get a slightly better reaction if they start =
a conversation in the local lingo. However as others are said, =
generally the best role-playing experience is when the locals you want =
to talk to can make themselves understood in Common (or the GM puts a =
language fix on the inter-planer portal). There are of course =
situations when e.g. anyone but elves will be ignored, normally players =
will know this before signing up, or it only applies to part of the =
adventure.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>So, I agree with the 'most people of note have Common =
at useable levels' approach in the more commonly played areas.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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i do like this...
the idea of three languages appeals for some warped reason:
the tradesfolk speak common, and a local
the nobles speak court, and maybe a local and maybe common,
the common folk speak the local, and maybe a bit of common.

So common is routine along teh main trade routes, shops, streets etc.
but stray just a little and try asking for directions when the locals dont even speak arabic. 


Ian 


---- Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz> wrote: 
> On Tue, 2006-09-12 at 15:00, Andrew Withy (DSL AK) wrote:
> > If we make too many frequently visited areas not speak Common, then
> > (a) GMs will always ignore this, so you can talk to locals;
> > (b) Volkspracht or Lalange or whatever becomes the most common tongue in
> > the baronies, and hence the new "Common" that all adventurers will
> > learn.
> > 
> > Neither of these results are desirable. Thus we need to have lots of
> > areas speaking Common. In the baronies, they include most of:
> > * Artzdorf/Flugelheim
> > * Brandenburg
> > * Eltrandor
> > * Mittlemark
> > * Ranke
> > * Western Marches
> 
> Or have about 10% of people in those regions speak common at rank 6+,
> including pretty much all the nobles, sheriffs and priests. The
> adventurers can then get by with common, but have an advantage to have
> the local language. 
> 
> Is it desirable to have (say) just one or two members of the party who
> can speak to the peasants without an interpreter? It increases
> differentation between characters (good), gives more meaning to their
> character background (good), sometimes gets characters who don't
> normally do social interaction to do so (good?), possibly results in a
> few characters dominating GM time during such interactions (bad).
> 
> 
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