Subject[dq] Shadow Walking queries
FromErrol Cavit
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 11:25:35 +1300
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Hi everyone, and especially Celestial Shadow mages with Shadow Walking.

Darien has recently gained this spell (and ranked it to Rk10). I'm =
curious
what other active PC's have it, and whether GM's use it with their NPCs =
much
(as a player, I can remember seeing a GM using it once).




One rule interpretation issue that occurred to me (and it's something I
would understand different GMs making different rulings on), is whether =
it
is OK to use a (suitably-sized) Darkness spell effect as a Shadow Walk
end-point. Darkness explicitly counts as direct shadow for bonus to =
casting
purposes, and it is _possible_ to take the way the spell effect is =
worded to
extend this to being in a shadow for other purposes.

What are others thoughts on this (relevant rulebook extracts below)? =
Does it
make SW too flexible?

Cheers
Errol


Darkness (G-3)
...
Duration: 15 minutes =D7 [D - 5] =D7 [Rank]
...It will not aid in providing
bonuses for casting purposes, though it will neutralise
penalties due to natural light, to a maximum of 5% +
1% / Rank. The volume counts as direct shadow for
Star & Shadow Mages.
...

Shadow Walking (S-10 Shadow)
Range: Self
Duration: Immediate
Experience Multiple: 550
Base Chance: 1%
Resist: None
Storage: Ward, Potion
Target: Self
Effects: The Adept may instantly teleport from
within one shadow to another shadow. The destination
must be within sight or must have been carefully
memorised beforehand. The destination may be up to
5 miles (+ 1 / Rank) distant. Only Shadow Weavers
may cast this spell.

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi everyone, and especially Celestial Shadow mages =
with Shadow Walking.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Darien has recently gained this spell (and ranked it =
to Rk10). I'm curious what other active PC's have it, and whether GM's =
use it with their NPCs much (as a player, I can remember seeing a GM =
using it once).</FONT></P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>One rule interpretation issue that occurred to me =
(and it's something I would understand different GMs making different =
rulings on), is whether it is OK to use a (suitably-sized) Darkness =
spell effect as a Shadow Walk end-point. Darkness explicitly counts as =
direct shadow for bonus to casting purposes, and it is _possible_ to =
take the way the spell effect is worded to extend this to being in a =
shadow for other purposes.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What are others thoughts on this (relevant rulebook =
extracts below)? Does it make SW too flexible?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Darkness (G-3)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Duration: 15 minutes =D7 [D - 5] =D7 [Rank]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>...It will not aid in providing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bonuses for casting purposes, though it will =
neutralise</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>penalties due to natural light, to a maximum of 5% =
+</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1% / Rank. The volume counts as direct shadow =
for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Star &amp; Shadow Mages.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Shadow Walking (S-10 Shadow)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Range: Self</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Duration: Immediate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Experience Multiple: 550</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Base Chance: 1%</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Resist: None</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Storage: Ward, Potion</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Target: Self</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Effects: The Adept may instantly teleport =
from</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>within one shadow to another shadow. The =
destination</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>must be within sight or must have been =
carefully</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>memorised beforehand. The destination may be up =
to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>5 miles (+ 1 / Rank) distant. Only Shadow =
Weavers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>may cast this spell.</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
FromHelen Saggers
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 12:26:37 +1300
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Shadow Walking queriesGok has this spell
On a game I GMed he used it to both invade and escape a fortification
Returning to a memorized rally point to rejoin the party, as they where =
working at night suitable shadows were not a problem.=20

I see no reason given the darkness spell write up not to allow a =
Celestial to use a darkness as one or both ends of the teleport.
The Darkness spells duration puts limits on using it as the far end for =
a long range 'port; its probably better to use a natural shadow. And the =
range of the Darkness spell, limits using it as the far end of a within =
sight point to point.
As for the Near end well its another cast, that uses Ft, and doesn't =
give any bonuses to casting whats is a low BC spell. It reduces =
penatites sure, but half the time Shadow and dark Celestals put one down =
before doing any casting in any cast.

Helen

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gok has this spell</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On a game I GMed he used it to both =
invade and=20
escape a fortification</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Returning to a memorized rally =
point&nbsp;to=20
rejoin&nbsp;the party, as they where working at night&nbsp;suitable =
shadows were=20
not a problem.</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I see no reason given the darkness =
spell write up=20
not to allow a Celestial to use a darkness as one or both ends of the=20
teleport.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Darkness spells duration puts =
limits on using=20
it as the far end for a long range 'port; its probably better to use a =
natural=20
shadow.&nbsp;And the range of the Darkness spell, limits using it as the =
far end=20
of a within sight point to point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As for the Near end well =
its&nbsp;another cast,=20
that uses Ft, and doesn't give any bonuses to casting whats is a low BC =
spell.=20
It reduces penatites sure, but half the time Shadow and dark Celestals =
put one=20
down before doing any casting in any cast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq] Shields
FromRPer 4eva
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 12:26:06 +1300
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Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a
base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you
still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems
that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
intended by the rules?

Dylan

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<div>Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was intended by the rules?
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Dylan</div>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 12:45:28 +1300 (NZDT)
You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.

Both apply.

Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use giant weapons), but to
wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified minimum stats.
If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a penalty of -5% SC per MD and
-1 dam per PS below the minimums.


If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield then you will have -15% on
your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.

Cheers, Stephen.

RPer 4eva wrote:
> Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
> precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a
> base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you
> still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems
> that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
> intended by the rules?
>
> Dylan
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromRPer 4eva
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 12:48:53 +1300
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But do you get full defense was my main concern.
Dylan


On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
>
> You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
> While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
>
> Both apply.
>
> Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use
> giant weapons), but to
> wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified
> minimum stats.
> If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a
> penalty of -5% SC per MD and
> -1 dam per PS below the minimums.
>
>
> If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield
> then you will have -15% on
> your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.
>
> Cheers, Stephen.
>
> RPer 4eva wrote:
> > Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
> > precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need
> a
> > base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3
> you
> > still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it
> seems
> > that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
> > intended by the rules?
> >
> > Dylan
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>

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<div>But do you get full defense was my main concern.</div>
<div>Dylan<br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/31/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Stephen Martin</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.net</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.<br>While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
<br><br>Both apply.<br><br>Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use giant weapons), but to<br>wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified minimum stats.<br>If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a penalty of -5% SC per MD and
<br>-1 dam per PS below the minimums.<br><br><br>If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield then you will have -15% on<br>your SC.&nbsp;&nbsp;You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.
<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>RPer 4eva wrote:<br>&gt; Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes<br>&gt; precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a<br>&gt; base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you
<br>&gt; still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems<br>&gt; that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was<br>&gt; intended by the rules?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Dylan<br>&gt;
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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromStephen Martin
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 12:55:54 +1300 (NZDT)
Yes. (IMO)

RPer 4eva wrote:
> But do you get full defense was my main concern.
> Dylan
>
>
> On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
>>
>> You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
>> While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
>>
>> Both apply.
>>
>> Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use
>> giant weapons), but to
>> wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified
>> minimum stats.
>> If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a
>> penalty of -5% SC per MD and
>> -1 dam per PS below the minimums.
>>
>>
>> If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield
>> then you will have -15% on
>> your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.
>>
>> Cheers, Stephen.
>>
>> RPer 4eva wrote:
>> > Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
>> > precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need
>> a
>> > base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3
>> you
>> > still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it
>> seems
>> > that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
>> > intended by the rules?
>> >
>> > Dylan
>> >
>>
>>
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>>
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
Fromian at dawn haven
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 13:10:44 +1300
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(imho) 
No. Defence would be at Rank 0.
PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild counts as a weapon, even if it is
a defensive one) but with stats below that required, do so at Rank 0.
 
A tower shield could possibly be better named "a movable piece of castle
wall" but still requires sufficient MD to weild effectively. There may be
some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they can erect it on the
battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But that would be a base
rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging arrows.
 
:-)
 
Ian
 


  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of RPer
4eva
Sent: 31 October 2006 12:49
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Shields


But do you get full defense was my main concern.
Dylan

 
On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote: 

You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3. 

Both apply.

Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use
giant weapons), but to
wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified
minimum stats.
If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a penalty
of -5% SC per MD and 
-1 dam per PS below the minimums.


If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield then
you will have -15% on
your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield. 

Cheers, Stephen.

RPer 4eva wrote:
> Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
> precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a
> base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you 
> still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems
> that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
> intended by the rules?
>
> Dylan
> 


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<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(imho) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No. Defence would be at Rank =
0.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild =
counts as a=20
weapon, even if it is a defensive one) but with stats below that =
required, do so=20
at Rank 0.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>A tower shield could possibly be better named =
"a movable=20
piece of castle wall" but still requires sufficient MD to weild =
effectively.=20
There may be some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they can =
erect=20
it on the battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But that =
would be a=20
base rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging =
arrows.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D406090400-31102006>:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D406090400-31102006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D406090400-31102006>Ian</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1>
  <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of </B>RPer =
4eva<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  31 October 2006 12:49<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
  [dq] Shields<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>But do you get full defense was my main concern.</DIV>
  <DIV>Dylan<BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote>On 10/31/06, <B =
class=3Dgmail_sendername>Stephen=20
  Martin</B> &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net">stephenm@aklnz.net</A>&gt;=20
  wrote:</SPAN>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">You=20
    need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.<BR>While wielding a Kite =
Shield your=20
    effective MD is reduced by 3. <BR><BR>Both apply.<BR><BR>Anyone can =
attempt=20
    to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use giant weapons), =
but=20
    to<BR>wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the=20
    specified minimum stats.<BR>If your effective stats are below the =
required=20
    values then you get a penalty of -5% SC per MD and <BR>-1 dam per PS =
below=20
    the minimums.<BR><BR><BR>If you normally have 12MD and strike an =
opponent=20
    with your Kite Shield then you will have -15% on<BR>your =
SC.&nbsp;&nbsp;You=20
    need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield. =
<BR><BR>Cheers,=20
    Stephen.<BR><BR>RPer 4eva wrote:<BR>&gt; Shields require MD of 12. =
They also=20
    lower your MD. Which rule takes<BR>&gt; precedence. If a shield =
lowers your=20
    MD by 3 then do you still only need a<BR>&gt; base of 12 to use it =
or do you=20
    need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you <BR>&gt; still have 12? =
I'd=20
    always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems<BR>&gt; that =
many=20
    people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what =
was<BR>&gt;=20
    intended by the rules?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dylan<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>-- =
to=20
    unsubscribe notify mailto:<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A>=20
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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromRPer 4eva
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 13:47:50 +1300
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So you would take the MD off before determining if they can use it? Thats
what I'm asking. Does the base MD count or the modified MD count when it
comes to determining if you can effectivly use the shield. I've always
thought it made sense that your base determines if you can use it and the
modified is how  using it penalises you.
Dylan


On 10/31/06, ian at dawn haven <dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>  (imho)
> No. Defence would be at Rank 0.
> PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild counts as a weapon, even if it
> is a defensive one) but with stats below that required, do so at Rank 0.
>
> A tower shield could possibly be better named "a movable piece of castle
> wall" but still requires sufficient MD to weild effectively. There may be
> some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they can erect it on the
> battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But that would be a base
> rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging arrows.
>
> :-)
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] *On Behalf Of
> *RPer 4eva
> *Sent:* 31 October 2006 12:49
> *To:* dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> *Subject:* Re: [dq] Shields
>
>
>  But do you get full defense was my main concern.
> Dylan
>
>
> On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
> >
> > You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
> > While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
> >
> > Both apply.
> >
> > Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use
> > giant weapons), but to
> > wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified
> > minimum stats.
> > If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a
> > penalty of -5% SC per MD and
> > -1 dam per PS below the minimums.
> >
> >
> > If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield
> > then you will have -15% on
> > your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Stephen.
> >
> > RPer 4eva wrote:
> > > Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
> > > precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only
> > need a
> > > base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3
> > you
> > > still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it
> > seems
> > > that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what
> > was
> > > intended by the rules?
> > >
> > > Dylan
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
>
>

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<div>So you would take the MD off before determining if they can use it? Thats what I'm asking. Does the base MD count or the modified MD count when it comes to determining if you can effectivly use the shield. I've always thought it made sense that your base determines if you can use it and the modified is how&nbsp; using it penalises you.
</div>
<div>Dylan<br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/31/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">ian at dawn haven</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">(imho) </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">No. Defence would be at Rank 0.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild counts as a weapon, even if it is a defensive one) but with stats below that required, do so at Rank 0.
</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">A tower shield could possibly be better named &quot;a movable piece of castle wall&quot; but still requires sufficient MD to weild effectively. There may be some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they can erect it on the battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But that would be a base rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging arrows.
</font></span></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span>:-)</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span></span></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span>Ian</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br>&nbsp;</div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div lang="en-us" dir="ltr" align="left">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>RPer 4eva<br><b>Sent:</b> 31 October 2006 12:49<br><b>To:</b> <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq@dq.sf.org.nz
</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [dq] Shields<br></font><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="e" id="q_10e9bb6023cb7226_1">
<div></div>
<div>But do you get full defense was my main concern.</div>
<div>Dylan<br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 10/31/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Stephen Martin</b> &lt;<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:stephenm@aklnz.net" target="_blank">stephenm@aklnz.net
</a>&gt; wrote:</span> 
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.<br>While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3. 
<br><br>Both apply.<br><br>Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use giant weapons), but to<br>wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified minimum stats.<br>If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a penalty of -5% SC per MD and 
<br>-1 dam per PS below the minimums.<br><br><br>If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield then you will have -15% on<br>your SC.&nbsp;&nbsp;You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield. 
<br><br>Cheers, Stephen.<br><br>RPer 4eva wrote:<br>&gt; Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes<br>&gt; precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need a<br>&gt; base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3 you 
<br>&gt; still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it seems<br>&gt; that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was<br>&gt; intended by the rules?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Dylan<br>&gt; 
<br><br><br>-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz" target="_blank">dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a> --<br></blockquote></div><br></span></div>
</blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromHelen Saggers
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 14:02:24 +1300
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The thing is that, other things, like TMR are calculated After you take =
off (or add) all applicable modifiers and Wearing armour effects your AG =
Before you calculate the further lost of AG for its weight.
The MD loss for the shield effects your other weapon use, the modified =
MD means you don't get to use weapons you otherwise could without the =
shield at more than rank 0.

On that basis ( that we use modified values) I side with Ian on this, if =
your MD with the prepared shield drops below the requirement to use it =
effectively, you get the penalty.

Def as per rank 0

Get a smaller shield, you can still rank shield its just you only get to =
use a buckler at greater than rank 0 with no penalties.

Helen
=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: ian at dawn haven=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 1:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Shields


  (imho)=20
  No. Defence would be at Rank 0.
  PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild counts as a weapon, even if =
it is a defensive one) but with stats below that required, do so at Rank =
0.

  A tower shield could possibly be better named "a movable piece of =
castle wall" but still requires sufficient MD to weild effectively. =
There may be some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they can =
erect it on the battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But =
that would be a base rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging =
arrows.

  :-)

  Ian

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The thing&nbsp;is that, other things, =
like&nbsp;TMR=20
are calculated After&nbsp;you take off (or add) all applicable modifiers =
and=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wearing armour effects your AG Before =
you=20
calculate the further lost of AG for its weight.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The MD loss for the shield effects your =
other=20
weapon use, the modified MD means you don't get to use weapons you =
otherwise=20
could without the shield at more than rank 0.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>On that basis ( that we use modified =
values) I side=20
with Ian on this, if your MD with the prepared shield drops below the=20
requirement to use it effectively, you get the penalty.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Def as per rank 0</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Get a smaller shield, you can still =
rank shield its=20
just you only get to use a buckler at greater than rank 0 with&nbsp;no=20
penalties.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddawnhaven@xtra.co.nz =
href=3D"mailto:dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz">ian at dawn=20
  haven</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 31, 2006 =
1:10=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Shields</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>(imho) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No. Defence would be at Rank =
0.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>PCs that try to weild a weapon (and sheild =
counts as a=20
  weapon, even if it is a defensive one) but with stats below that =
required, do=20
  so at Rank 0.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D406090400-31102006><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>A tower shield could possibly be better named =
"a movable=20
  piece of castle wall" but still requires sufficient MD to weild =
effectively.=20
  There may be some that have a tower that comes with a tripod so they =
can erect=20
  it on the battlefield and cower behind it - pitiful mages. But that =
would be a=20
  base rank, with a possible PC+MD bonus for dodging =
arrows.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D406090400-31102006>:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D406090400-31102006></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D406090400-31102006>Ian</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
FromErrol Cavit
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 14:15:00 +1300
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Helen Saggers [mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 12:27
> To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> Subject: Re: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
> 
> 
> Gok has this spell
> On a game I GMed he used it to both invade and escape a fortification
> Returning to a memorized rally point to rejoin the party, as 
> they where working at night suitable shadows were not a problem. 
> 
> I see no reason given the darkness spell write up not to 
> allow a Celestial to use a darkness as one or both ends of 
> the teleport.
> The Darkness spells duration puts limits on using it as the 
> far end for a long range 'port; 

I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be 100+ miles, assuming
suitable locations to put a series of Dark's (where they won't be noticed),
and a couple of gutbusters (SW range 15m, BC ~50%). I call this a useful
head start - and it is easy for the GM to break the chain if that leads to a
more entertaining game. Note Rk20 Dark's will last hours to a day - the fact
that the duration has a [D - 5] multiplier can mean inconvenient markers
left scattered about the place (can often be worked-around).


> its probably better to use a 
> natural shadow. 

Agreed. But using a Dark increases you options when you can't find or leave
a suitable (reliable) light sources scattered about the place. It's much
easier to hide a Dark than a light source at night (most of the time).


And the range of the Darkness spell, limits 
> using it as the far end of a within sight point to point.
> As for the Near end well its another cast, that uses Ft, and 
> doesn't give any bonuses to casting whats is a low BC spell. 
> It reduces penatites sure, but half the time Shadow and dark 
> Celestals put one down before doing any casting in any case.

Again it increases your options - as much as a napalm grenado around the
corner is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a flat-walled corridor
with several torches I'd take my chances with casting my General with (130 -
25 penalty)BC (or duck into the cupboard I've cast a Dark in earlier, or
feather-fall out a window and cast a Dark around me, or ...).

Thanks for your comments
Errol

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; From: Helen Saggers [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz">mailto:helen@owbn.net.nz</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 12:27</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Subject: Re: [dq] Shadow Walking queries</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Gok has this spell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; On a game I GMed he used it to both invade and =
escape a fortification</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Returning to a memorized rally point to rejoin =
the party, as </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; they where working at night suitable shadows =
were not a problem. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I see no reason given the darkness spell write =
up not to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; allow a Celestial to use a darkness as one or =
both ends of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; the teleport.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; The Darkness spells duration puts limits on =
using it as the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; far end for a long range 'port; </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be =
100+ miles, assuming suitable locations to put a series of Dark's =
(where they won't be noticed), and a couple of gutbusters (SW range =
15m, BC ~50%). I call this a useful head start - and it is easy for the =
GM to break the chain if that leads to a more entertaining game. Note =
Rk20 Dark's will last hours to a day - the fact that the duration has a =
[D - 5] multiplier can mean inconvenient markers left scattered about =
the place (can often be worked-around).</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; its probably better to use a </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; natural shadow. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Agreed. But using a Dark increases you options when =
you can't find or leave a suitable (reliable) light sources scattered =
about the place. It's much easier to hide a Dark than a light source at =
night (most of the time).</FONT></P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>And the range of the Darkness spell, limits </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; using it as the far end of a within sight point =
to point.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; As for the Near end well its another cast, that =
uses Ft, and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; doesn't give any bonuses to casting whats is a =
low BC spell. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; It reduces penatites sure, but half the time =
Shadow and dark </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Celestals put one down before doing any casting =
in any case.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Again it increases your options - as much as a napalm =
grenado around the corner is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a =
flat-walled corridor with several torches I'd take my chances with =
casting my General with (130 - 25 penalty)BC (or duck into the cupboard =
I've cast a Dark in earlier, or feather-fall out a window and cast a =
Dark around me, or ...).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for your comments</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
Fromcarojono
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 14:39:19 +1300
Hi Dylan,

Defence: Yes you would gain the defence for and at the rank you have it at.
Also shields count as giving you a rank at rank 0 so rank 4 shield would
give you 5 ranks worth.
Attack SC: When attacking with the shield (weapon) your MD would be lower so
I agree with Stephen.

Jono


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 12:56 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Shields


Yes. (IMO)

RPer 4eva wrote:
> But do you get full defense was my main concern.
> Dylan
>
>
> On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
>>
>> You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
>> While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
>>
>> Both apply.
>>
>> Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to use
>> giant weapons), but to
>> wield it at normal effectiveness and train in it you need the specified
>> minimum stats.
>> If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a
>> penalty of -5% SC per MD and
>> -1 dam per PS below the minimums.
>>
>>
>> If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite Shield
>> then you will have -15% on
>> your SC.  You need 15MD to attack without penalty using the Kite Shield.
>>
>> Cheers, Stephen.
>>
>> RPer 4eva wrote:
>> > Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes
>> > precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only need
>> a
>> > base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus 3
>> you
>> > still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it
>> seems
>> > that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what was
>> > intended by the rules?
>> >
>> > Dylan
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>>
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
FromHelen Saggers
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 15:17:32 +1300
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RE: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Errol Cavit=20
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] Shadow Walking queries

I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be 100+ miles, assuming =
suitable locations to put a series of Dark's (where they won't be =
noticed), and a couple of gutbusters (SW range 15m, BC ~50%). I call =
this a useful head start - and it is easy for the GM to break the chain =
if that leads to a more entertaining game. Note Rk20 Dark's will last =
hours to a day - the fact that the duration has a [D - 5] multiplier can =
mean inconvenient markers left scattered about the place (can often be =
worked-around).

Where would Darien be going with this head start? And without the party =
at that.=20
Besides that sort of set up would be part of an organized plan, which as =
you say gives the GM a chance to plan a responce for the betterment of =
the game if need be.
As a GM tool, a 100 mile head start is nothing on a party with flight as =
long as you leave clues as to where your NPC went.

Agreed. But using a Dark increases you options when you can't find or =
leave a suitable (reliable) light sources scattered about the place. =
It's much easier to hide a Dark than a light source at night (most of =
the time).

But then the use of magic is all about creating optional solutions to =
problems that would be difficult or impossible to solve with out it.

Again it increases your options - as much as a napalm grenado around the =
corner is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a flat-walled corridor =
with several torches I'd take my chances with casting my General with =
(130 - 25 penalty)BC (or duck into the cupboard I've cast a Dark in =
earlier, or feather-fall out a window and cast a Dark around me, or =
...).
Thanks for your comments=20
Errol=20

Again, I find that that the best part of GMing for me is watching what =
imaginative solutions my players come up with to the problems I set. If =
you want to try to teleport away while falling to get away from =
whatever... at least it isn't the old fall back of "I pull out my gold =
brick of doom and turn the baddies into goo."

Helen
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: [dq] Shadow Walking queries</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- =
<BR>From: Errol=20
Cavit <BR>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:15=20
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [dq] Shadow Walking queries</FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be 100+ miles, =
assuming=20
suitable locations to put a series of Dark's (where they won't be =
noticed), and=20
a couple of gutbusters (SW range 15m, BC ~50%). I call this a useful =
head start=20
- and it is easy for the GM to break the chain if that leads to a more=20
entertaining game. Note Rk20 Dark's will last hours to a day - the fact =
that the=20
duration has a [D - 5] multiplier can mean inconvenient markers left =
scattered=20
about the place (can often be worked-around).<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Where would Darien be going with this head =
start?=20
</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff>And without the party at that. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Besides that sort of set up would be part of =
an=20
organized plan, which as you say gives the GM a chance to plan a =
responce for=20
the betterment of the game if need be.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>As a GM tool, a 100 mile head start is =
nothing on a=20
party with flight as long as you leave clues as to where your NPC=20
went.</FONT><BR><BR>Agreed. But using a Dark increases you options when =
you=20
can't find or leave a suitable (reliable) light sources scattered about =
the=20
place. It's much easier to hide a Dark than a light source at night =
(most of the=20
time).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>But then the use of magic is all about =
creating=20
optional solutions to problems that would be difficult or impossible to =
solve=20
with out it.</FONT><BR><BR>Again it increases your options - as much as =
a napalm=20
grenado around the corner is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a=20
flat-walled corridor with several torches I'd take my chances with =
casting my=20
General with (130 - 25 penalty)BC (or duck into the cupboard I've cast a =
Dark in=20
earlier, or feather-fall out a window and cast a Dark around me, or=20
...).<BR>Thanks for your comments <BR>Errol </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Again, I find that that the best part of =
GMing for me=20
is watching what imaginative solutions my players come up with&nbsp;to =
the=20
problems I set. If you want to try to teleport away while falling to get =
away=20
from whatever...&nbsp;at least it isn't the&nbsp;old fall back =
of&nbsp;"I pull=20
out my gold brick of doom and turn the baddies into goo."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Helen</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromAndrew Withy \(DSL AK\)
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 15:09:24 +1300
I think Helen & Ian's logic is interesting, and possibly "better".
However, I've always seen it played as per Stephen/Jono. That is,

Shield Defence - unmodified MD of 12
Shield Attack  - modified MD of 12 (or penalties)

Andrew 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
carojono
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 2:39 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Shields

Hi Dylan,

Defence: Yes you would gain the defence for and at the rank you have it
at.
Also shields count as giving you a rank at rank 0 so rank 4 shield would
give you 5 ranks worth.
Attack SC: When attacking with the shield (weapon) your MD would be
lower so I agree with Stephen.

Jono


-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 12:56 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Shields


Yes. (IMO)

RPer 4eva wrote:
> But do you get full defense was my main concern.
> Dylan
>
>
> On 10/31/06, Stephen Martin <stephenm@aklnz.net> wrote:
>>
>> You need 12 MD to rank Shield as a weapon.
>> While wielding a Kite Shield your effective MD is reduced by 3.
>>
>> Both apply.
>>
>> Anyone can attempt to wield any weapon (except non-giants trying to 
>> use giant weapons), but to wield it at normal effectiveness and train

>> in it you need the specified minimum stats.
>> If your effective stats are below the required values then you get a 
>> penalty of -5% SC per MD and
>> -1 dam per PS below the minimums.
>>
>>
>> If you normally have 12MD and strike an opponent with your Kite 
>> Shield then you will have -15% on your SC.  You need 15MD to attack 
>> without penalty using the Kite Shield.
>>
>> Cheers, Stephen.
>>
>> RPer 4eva wrote:
>> > Shields require MD of 12. They also lower your MD. Which rule takes

>> > precedence. If a shield lowers your MD by 3 then do you still only 
>> > need
>> a
>> > base of 12 to use it or do you need a base of 15 so after the minus

>> > 3
>> you
>> > still have 12? I'd always assumed you just needed the 12 but now it
>> seems
>> > that many people would say I still need 15. Can anyone tell me what

>> > was intended by the rules?
>> >
>> > Dylan
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>>
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] Shadow Walking queries
FromJohanna and Hamish
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 21:20:54 +1300
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Shadow walking GOOD.

 

GoK

 

I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be 100+ miles, assuming
suitable locations to put a series of Dark's (where they won't be noticed),
and a couple of gutbusters (SW range 15m, BC ~50%). I call this a useful
head start - and it is easy for the GM to break the chain if that leads to a
more entertaining game. Note Rk20 Dark's will last hours to a day - the fact
that the duration has a [D - 5] multiplier can mean inconvenient markers
left scattered about the place (can often be worked-around).

Where would Darien be going with this head start? And without the party at
that. 

Besides that sort of set up would be part of an organized plan, which as you
say gives the GM a chance to plan a responce for the betterment of the game
if need be.

As a GM tool, a 100 mile head start is nothing on a party with flight as
long as you leave clues as to where your NPC went.

Agreed. But using a Dark increases you options when you can't find or leave
a suitable (reliable) light sources scattered about the place. It's much
easier to hide a Dark than a light source at night (most of the time).

 

But then the use of magic is all about creating optional solutions to
problems that would be difficult or impossible to solve with out it.

Again it increases your options - as much as a napalm grenado around the
corner is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a flat-walled corridor
with several torches I'd take my chances with casting my General with (130 -
25 penalty)BC (or duck into the cupboard I've cast a Dark in earlier, or
feather-fall out a window and cast a Dark around me, or ...).
Thanks for your comments 
Errol 

 

Again, I find that that the best part of GMing for me is watching what
imaginative solutions my players come up with to the problems I set. If you
want to try to teleport away while falling to get away from whatever... at
least it isn't the old fall back of "I pull out my gold brick of doom and
turn the baddies into goo."

 

Helen


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#993300" face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:#993300'>Shadow
walking GOOD.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#993300" face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:#993300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#993300" face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:#993300'>GoK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I estimated Darien's current practical limit to be =
100+
miles, assuming suitable locations to put a series of Dark's (where they =
won't
be noticed), and a couple of gutbusters (SW range 15m, <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">B</st1:PersonName>C
~50%). I call this a useful head start - and it is easy for the GM to =
break the
chain if that leads to a more entertaining game. Note Rk20 Dark's will =
last
hours to a day - the fact that the duration has a [D - 5] multiplier can =
mean
inconvenient markers left scattered about the place (can often be
worked-around).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Where would <st1:City =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
 w:st=3D"on">Darien</st1:place></st1:City> be going with this head =
start? And
without the party at that. </span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>B</span></font></=
st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>esides that sort of set up would be part of an organized =
plan,
which as you say gives the GM a chance to plan a responce for the =
betterment of
the game if need be.</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As a GM tool, a 100 mile head start =
is
nothing on a party with flight as long as you leave clues as to where =
your NPC
went.</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><br>
<br>
Agreed. <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">B</st1:PersonName>ut using a Dark =
increases
you options when you can't find or leave a suitable (reliable) light =
sources
scattered about the place. It's much easier to hide a Dark than a light =
source
at night (most of the time).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>B</span></font></=
st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>ut then the use of magic is all about creating optional =
solutions
to problems that would be difficult or impossible to solve with out =
it.</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<br>
Again it increases your options - as much as a napalm grenado around the =
corner
is a fun way of making a shadow, if I'm in a flat-walled corridor with =
several
torches I'd take my chances with casting my General with (130 - 25 =
penalty)<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">B</st1:PersonName>C (or duck into the cupboard I've cast a =
Dark in
earlier, or feather-fall out a window and cast a Dark around me, or =
...).<br>
Thanks for your comments <br>
Errol <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Again, I find that that the best =
part of
GMing for me is watching what imaginative solutions my players come up
with&nbsp;to the problems I set. If you want to try to teleport away =
while
falling to get away from whatever...&nbsp;at least it isn't the&nbsp;old =
fall
back of&nbsp;&quot;I pull out my gold brick of doom and turn the baddies =
into
goo.&quot;</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Helen</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Shields
FromMichael Scott
DateTue, 31 Oct 2006 23:43:58 +1300
Just spend the damn exp to rank your MD to 17 and then it won't be a problem

TTFN
Michael

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