This 'possession' rule has always been crap. Remove it entirely, and replace it 
with two limits: cumulative weight AND cumulative willpower of the entities to
be affected by the magic. If either constraint fails, the magic does not work.

Jim




Quoting dawnhaven@xtra.co.nz:

>
> What is a good criteria for possession or passenger ?
> The ability to actively resist has drawbacks as stunned people cannot do so.
>
> Are unconscious or stunned PCs posessions? Are coherent Pcs passengers?
>
> "Look upon this sap as your saviour" thwack!
>
>
> Ian (where the weather is cool enough to be cold for several minutes at 8 am,
> and yet warm enough to dry my jeans in under an hour)
> ---- Andrew Withy <awithy@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> > I believe that any mouse is an entity - skin-changed or not. Entities
> > include all animals (though normal-sized insects seem to be borderline).
> > Also, skin-change allows the target to keep their mind, so the mouse is a
> > sentient entity.
> >
> > On the other hand, the GM should do whatever works best for gameflow/plot
> at
> > the time.
> >
> > Body lice go invisible with you, the weasel down your trousers does not.
> > This is another reason why dwarves don't hide well...
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
> > Stephen Martin
> > Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2007 3:28 p.m.
> > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
> > Subject: [dq] Skin Changed Entities as Posessions
> >
> > If a character is skin changed into a mouse, do they then count as a
> > possession for the purposes
> > of magic?
> >
> > E.g. If I Windwalk does the mouse in my pocket come with me or get left
> > behind?
> > Or if I go invisible is there then a visible mouse floating along at pocket
> > height?
> >
> > Cheers, Stephen.
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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--- Keith Smith <phaeton@ihug.co.nz> wrote:

> 
> >What is a good criteria for possession or passenger
> ?
> >The ability to actively resist has drawbacks as
> stunned people cannot do so.
> >
> >Are unconscious or stunned PCs posessions? Are
> coherent Pcs passengers?
> >
> >"Look upon this sap as your saviour" thwack!
> 
> Personally, I'd count anything that had a MA and WP
> stat, i.e. is 
> sentient and able to resist magic.
> 
> Keith
> 

A very well-reasoned pov.

Regards,



Lev


       
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On 5/31/07, raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> This 'possession' rule has always been crap. Remove it entirely, and
> replace it
> with two limits: cumulative weight AND cumulative willpower of the
> entities to
> be affected by the magic. If either constraint fails, the magic does not
> work.


Interesting approach -- and easy to rule on.  Cool.

Easiest limits would be the weight and WP of the carrier.  i.e. you can't
carry anything (cumulatively) heavier or with more WP than yourself.

Halflings can carry (several) weasels, Humans can carry most Halflings
(though not especially willful ones)... Mind Mage giants can carry almost
anybody...

Cheers,
Martin

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On 5/31/07, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a></b> &lt;<a href="mailto:raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz">raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz</a>&gt; wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote">
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">This &#39;possession&#39; rule has always been crap. Remove it entirely, and replace it
<br>with two limits: cumulative weight AND cumulative willpower of the entities to<br>be affected by the magic. If either constraint fails, the magic does not work.</blockquote><div><br>Interesting approach -- and easy to rule on.&nbsp; Cool.
<br><br>Easiest limits would be the weight and WP of the carrier.&nbsp; i.e. you can&#39;t carry anything (cumulatively) heavier or with more WP than yourself.<br><br>Halflings can carry (several) weasels, Humans can carry most Halflings (though not especially willful ones)... Mind Mage giants can carry almost anybody...
<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br></div></div>

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Since animated objects count at enitiies for the  targeting some magics, =
I see no problem with some enitites  counting as Objects/ Posessions for =
the purposes of  some spells.

As a GM I've always looked at it in terms of "Is the creature an easerly =
Identifiable sperate target?"
That means your lice, the mouse in your pocket, the weasle in your =
trousers, would Probably go unoticed so they are posessions.
The small dog under your arm, the parrot on your shoulder, the horse =
your riding are all much more identifiable as "not you" and so are =
definate seperate entities.

In terms of skinchanged sentiant (or otherwise) entities, If they don't =
want to be in your Posession I would give them a Magic Resistance roll, =
a chance that they are able in some manor to make the Magic notice them.

That could however be very bad for the creature in question if the =
magics an area effect damage spell. : )

The easiest  way of policing abuse of skinchanges is to require writeups =
of your players... after all they are like investeds or potions and =
unless they are rank 20, they have a use by date.

Helen

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Martin Dickson=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [dq] Skin Changed Entities as Posessions


  Interesting approach -- and easy to rule on.  Cool.=20

  Easiest limits would be the weight and WP of the carrier.  i.e. you =
can't carry anything (cumulatively) heavier or with more WP than =
yourself.

  Halflings can carry (several) weasels, Humans can carry most Halflings =
(though not especially willful ones)... Mind Mage giants can carry =
almost anybody...=20

  Cheers,
  Martin

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1593" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Since animated objects count at =
enitiies for the=20
&nbsp;targeting some magics, I see no problem with some enitites&nbsp; =
counting=20
as Objects/ Posessions for the purposes of&nbsp; some =
spells.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As a GM I've always looked at it in =
terms of "Is=20
the creature an easerly Identifiable sperate target?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That means&nbsp;your lice, the mouse in =
your=20
pocket, the weasle in your trousers, would Probably go unoticed so they =
are=20
posessions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The&nbsp;small dog&nbsp;under your arm, =
the parrot=20
on your shoulder, the horse your riding are all much more identifiable =
as "not=20
you" and so are definate seperate entities.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In terms of skinchanged sentiant (or=20
otherwise)&nbsp;entities, If they don't want to be in your Posession I =
would=20
give them a Magic Resistance roll, a chance that they are able in some =
manor to=20
make the Magic notice them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That could however be very bad for the =
creature in=20
question if the magics an area effect&nbsp;damage spell. : =
)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The easiest&nbsp; way of policing abuse =
of=20
skinchanges is to require writeups of your players... after all they are =
like=20
investeds or potions and unless they are rank 20, they have a use by=20
date.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Helen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmartin.dickson@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:martin.dickson@gmail.com">Martin Dickson</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 01, 2007 =
3:28 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Skin Changed =
Entities=20
  as Posessions</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Interesting approach -- and easy to rule on.&nbsp; Cool. =
<BR><BR>Easiest=20
  limits would be the weight and WP of the carrier.&nbsp; i.e. you can't =
carry=20
  anything (cumulatively) heavier or with more WP than=20
  yourself.<BR><BR>Halflings can carry (several) weasels, Humans can =
carry most=20
  Halflings (though not especially willful ones)... Mind Mage giants can =
carry=20
  almost anybody...=20
<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Martin<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Excellent advance Martin,

add in +5lbs per rank and +1WP per rank in the spell or magic and you are there.

I still feel that sentient entities should get a choice as to whether they are a possession or not. The choice should be like 'not passively resisting', an active choice rather than a passive default IE you cannot argue against the default if you fail to state the contrary. 

For simplicity, the default would be posession if the above criteria are met, unless the sentient chooses (states) not to be.

BTW - I doubt posessions still get actions. What about Pass actions? non-magical pass actions? Bleeding?

> Easiest limits would be the weight and WP of the carrier.  i.e. you can't
> carry anything (cumulatively) heavier or with more WP than yourself.
 
Ian


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