SubjectRe: [dq] Natural Armour - again
FromHelen Saggers
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 00:50:48 +1200
Ft damage heals with a few hours rest, its the little taps that hurt at the
time but leave no lasting mark.
En damage takes days to heal its the egg sized bruise I get when a blow
really connects, the wrenched and torn mussles, the split or cut skin, stuff
that takes time to heal and that IF you take a bad enough beating can kill
you.
A Spec grev is a specsific injury, the broken or slashed limb, the stab
wound, the broken skull. The rules state that Armour is damaged by these
blows and needs repair, and the descriptions give effects & healing times or
rates of blood loss (en/ft loss) which if not stopped mean you bleed to
death.

As I see it:
Manufactured armour is designed to give soft weak human(iods) the protection
that nature didn't. What it stops is dependant on its design, thus all
armours stop Ft damage and some have write ups for stuff that stops some En
damage too.
Natural armour it different its the built in toughest of a crocs scalely
hide or the absorbtion of a fur coat, that keeps claws and teeth from
cutting, puncturing and brusing the creature.
Natures design gives its creatures En armour, the protection value of fur
being naturally less than scales or a shell.

PCs with natural Armour, unless its a GM addition it only usually a point or
two, so your not a soft skined humaniod, there are other things in the race
write ups to offset this advantage. (Racial EP mulitpliers for one)
With GM additions of natural armour to characters it should really state in
the write up the GMs intention as to stopping En damage or not and how much.
Particularly given the range of veiws expressed.

Helen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Johanna and Hamish" <perfect_brown@xtra.co.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [dq] Natural Armour - again


> Sorry everyone I did not intend to re-start this debate.  I was trying to
> track down Mandos to run a Balrog design past him and hit send by mistake.
>
> However for the record I play Natural armour as working against endurance
> and ftg but not specs.  My rational - 4 or 6pts is not a lot of armour for
a
> non armour wearing beast so it must have other benefits (ie 4 or 6 pts
> against really nasty blows).  Why not specs?  Because once the sword gets
> past the 4pts of endurance armour the additional spec damage is a result
of
> it waving around inside your ribcage.
>
> Cheers H
>
> Hamish Brown
> Director
>
> Zenergy
> Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world
> 119 Mt Eden Rd,
> Auckland
> www.zenergyglobal.com
>
>


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Subject[dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 08:55:51 +1200
I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule
change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Racial Modifiers
A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.
 
Example:
A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had
200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial
Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience
points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc


Kind regards,
Jono Bean


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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromMichael Woodhams
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 09:42:45 +1200
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 08:55, Jonathan Bean wrote:
> --
> Racial Modifiers
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.

Interesting. I pressume the "200,000 EP earned" is before EM is
accounted for?

Here are the total EP costs for various EMs under this rule, by the time
you've reached a 1.0 EM:

EM    EP cost
1.1   18,182
1.2   51,515
1.3   97,669
1.4  154,812
1.5  221,479

(E.g. a PC from a 1.2 EM race who has earned over 400,000 EP (and so now
has a 1.0 EM) has had 51,512 fewer EP to spend than a 1.0 EM race PC who
had earned the same number of EP.)


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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 09:57:03 +1200
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On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 08:55, Jonathan Bean wrote:
>> Racial Modifiers
>> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of
1.0)
>> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.

Michael Woodhams said:
> Interesting. I pressume the "200,000 EP earned" is before EM is
accounted for?

Yes. This is mainly because it's simple for both GMs and players to
understand, and get correct.


Jono Bean


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<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">On Fri, =
2007-08-24 at 08:55, Jonathan Bean wrote:</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> Racial Modifiers</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a =
minimum of 1.0)</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> for each 200,000 experience points that the character =
has earned.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Michael Woodhams</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> said:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&gt;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Interesting. I pressume the &quot;200,000 EP earned&quot; =
is before EM is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">accounted for?</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Ye</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> =
T</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">his =
is</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">mainly</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">because</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"></FONT> =
<FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">it</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">'</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">s simple =
for</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">both</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">GMs and players</FONT> <FONT =
COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to understand, and get =
correct.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Jono Bean</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 10:40:01 +1200
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I assume that EP already earned will be counted for purposes of the modifier
e.g. Elves that have earned 400,000 at time of adoption have a modifier of
1.0 from then on.

Are you proposing that this is applied retrospectively? i.e. an elf that has
earned 500,000 gets ((500k - 400k)*0.2) + (400k - 200k) * 0.1) added back (I
don't think this maths isn't quite correct, but near enough for discussion)?

Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Jonathan Bean
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 08:56
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?



I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule
change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Racial Modifiers
A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.
 
Example:
A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had
200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial
Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience
points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc


Kind regards,
Jono Bean


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I assume that EP already earned will be counted for =
purposes of the modifier e.g. Elves that have earned 400,000 at time of =
adoption have a modifier of 1.0 from then on.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Are you proposing that this is applied =
retrospectively? i.e. an elf that has earned 500,000 gets ((500k - =
400k)*0.2) + (400k - 200k) * 0.1) added back (I don't think this maths =
isn't quite correct, but near enough for discussion)?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jonathan Bean</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 08:56</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I would like to add to the agenda for next gods =
meeting a proposed rule</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>change for the next rulebook at the end of section =
2.2</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
---------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Racial Modifiers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 =
(to a minimum of 1.0)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for each 200,000 experience points that the =
character has earned.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Example:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the =
character has had</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>200,000 experience points their modifier will be =
lowered to 1.4 Racial</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional =
200,000 experience</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 =
etc</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kind regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jono Bean</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 11:00:15 +1200
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Errol asked:

> I assume that EP already earned will be counted for purposes of the
modifier

Yes any and all 'Experience Points earned' for the character would
count. So yes an Elf with over 400,000 Experience Points in total would
move to a new EM of 1.0

=20

> Are you proposing that this is applied retrospectively?

Yes I intend that this proposal would be applied retrospectively.

Yes I intend that a refund be given to characters for any 'over spent'
Experience Points by a GM.

=20

Kind regards,

Jonathan Bean
Sales Executive

M

+64 21 917 173

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________________________________

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 10:40 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

=20

I assume that EP already earned will be counted for purposes of the
modifier e.g. Elves that have earned 400,000 at time of adoption have a
modifier of 1.0 from then on.

Are you proposing that this is applied retrospectively? i.e. an elf that
has earned 500,000 gets ((500k - 400k)*0.2) + (400k - 200k) * 0.1) added
back (I don't think this maths isn't quite correct, but near enough for
discussion)?

Cheers=20
Errol=20

-----Original Message-----=20
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of=20
Jonathan Bean=20
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 08:56=20
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
Subject: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?=20

=20

I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule=20
change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2=20

------------------------------------------------------------------------

--=20
Racial Modifiers=20
A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)

for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.=20
 =20
Example:=20
A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had=20
200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial=20
Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience=20
points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc=20

=20

Kind regards,=20
Jono Bean=20

=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Errol asked:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt; I assume that EP already earned will be counted =
for
purposes of the modifier<font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Yes any and all &#8216;Experience Points =
earned&#8217; for
the character would count. So yes an Elf with over 400,000 Experience =
Points in
total would move to a new EM of 1.0<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt; Are you proposing that this is applied =
retrospectively?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Yes I intend that this proposal would be applied
retrospectively.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Yes I intend that a refund be given to characters for =
any &#8216;over
spent&#8217; Experience Points by a GM.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kind =
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><st1:PersonName
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
tabIndex=3D"0" w:st=3D"on"><strong><b><font size=3D3 color=3D"#52717f"
 face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
 color:#52717F'>Jonathan =
Bean</span></font></b></strong></st1:PersonName><font
color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#52717f" face=3DVerdana><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#52717F'>Sales =
Executive</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 cellpadding=3D0 =
width=3D637
 style=3D'width:477.7pt;margin-left:-5.25pt'>
 <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
  <td width=3D12 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:8.8pt;background:#EBEFF0;
  padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#859BA5'>M</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#859ba5" =
face=3DVerdana><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#859BA5'><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D181 height=3D12 style=3D'width:135.65pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
  height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
  line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>+64 21 917 =
173</span></font><font
  size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D199 rowspan=3D5 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:149.3pt;border:none;
  border-left:dotted #CCCCCC 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
0cm;height:9.1pt'>
  <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D5 =
cellpadding=3D0 width=3D253
   style=3D'width:189.7pt'>
   <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
    <td width=3D38 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:28.45pt;background:
    #EBEFF0;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'>Office</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D200 height=3D12 style=3D'width:150.15pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
    height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ
    style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>Level 1, =
<st1:address
    tabIndex=3D"0"
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
    w:st=3D"on"><st1:Street w:st=3D"on">4 Newton Road</st1:Street>, =
<st1:City
     w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City></st1:address> </span></font><font =
size=3D1
    color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:6.0pt;font-family:
    Verdana;color:navy'>(<a
    =
href=3D"http://maps.google.com/maps?f=3Dq&amp;hl=3Den&amp;geocode=3D&amp;=
q=3D4+Newton+Rd,+Newton,+Auckland+1010,+New+Zealand&amp;sll=3D40.03804,-7=
6.30126&amp;sspn=3D0.125644,0.32135&amp;ie=3DUTF8&amp;ll=3D-36.860068,174=
.753363&amp;spn=3D0.008206,0.020084&amp;z=3D16&amp;iwloc=3Daddr&amp;om=3D=
1">Click
    here for a Google map</a>)</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
    <td width=3D38 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:28.45pt;background:
    #EBEFF0;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'>Postal</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D200 height=3D12 style=3D'width:150.15pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
    height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:address tabIndex=3D"0"
    style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
    w:st=3D"on"><st1:Street w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DVerdana><span
      lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>PO Box
      2343</span></font></st1:Street><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DVerdana><span
     lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> <st1:City
     w:st=3D"on">Auckland</st1:City></span></font></st1:address><font =
size=3D1
    color=3Dnavy face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
    Verdana;color:navy'> 1140</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
    <td width=3D38 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:28.45pt;background:
    #EBEFF0;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'>Skype</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D200 height=3D12 style=3D'width:150.15pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
    height:9.1pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack =
face=3DVerdana><span
    lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Time
    Disciple</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
   <tr height=3D21 style=3D'height:15.4pt'>
    <td width=3D38 height=3D21 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:28.45pt;background:
    #EBEFF0;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:15.4pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
    face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
    color:#859BA5'>gtalk</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
    style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
    <td width=3D200 height=3D21 style=3D'width:150.15pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
    height:15.4pt'>
    <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
    auto;line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue =
face=3DVerdana><span
    lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><a
    =
href=3D"mailto:jonobean@gmail.com">jonobean@gmail.com</a></span></font><f=
ont
    color=3Dblue><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
    </td>
   </tr>
  </table>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><b><font size=3D1
  color=3D"#52717f" face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Verdana;color:#52717F;font-weight:bold'>real time =
accountability
  software for clarity</span></font></b><b><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#52717f"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#52717F;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D221 rowspan=3D5 valign=3Dbottom =
style=3D'width:165.45pt;border:none;
  border-left:dotted #CCCCCC 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
0cm;height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center'><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><a
  href=3D"http://www.timedisciple.com/"><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
  text-decoration:none'><img border=3D0 width=3D185 height=3D92 =
id=3D"_x0000_i1026"
  src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01C7E63D.F3108C50" alt=3D"Time =
Disciple"></span></font></a></span></font><font
  color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
  <td width=3D12 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:8.8pt;background:#EBEFF0;
  padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#859BA5'>T</span></font><font size=3D1 color=3D"#859ba5" =
face=3DVerdana><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#859BA5'><o:p></o:p></=
span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D181 height=3D12 style=3D'width:135.65pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
  height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
  line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>+64 9 361 =
6500</span></font><font
  size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Verdana;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=3D12 style=3D'height:9.1pt'>
  <td width=3D12 height=3D12 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:8.8pt;background:#EBEFF0;
  padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#859BA5'>F</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D181 height=3D12 style=3D'width:135.65pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
  height:9.1pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
  line-height:9.1pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DVerdana><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>+64 9 361 =
6504</span></font><font
  color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=3D21 style=3D'height:15.4pt'>
  <td width=3D12 height=3D21 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:8.8pt;background:#EBEFF0;
  padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:15.4pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#859BA5'>E</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D181 height=3D21 style=3D'width:135.65pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
  height:15.4pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
  line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 color=3Dblue face=3DVerdana><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:blue'><a
  =
href=3D"mailto:jonathanb@timedisciple.com">jonathanb@timedisciple.com</a>=
</span></font><font
  color=3Dblue><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=3D19 style=3D'height:14.5pt'>
  <td width=3D12 height=3D19 bgcolor=3D"#EBEFF0" =
style=3D'width:8.8pt;background:#EBEFF0;
  padding:0cm 0cm 0cm .75pt;height:14.5pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
  auto;text-align:center;line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3D"#859ba5"
  face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
  color:#859BA5'>W</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span lang=3DEN-NZ
  style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td width=3D181 height=3D19 style=3D'width:135.65pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 6.0pt;
  height:14.5pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
  line-height:9.0pt'><font size=3D1 color=3D"#52717f" =
face=3DVerdana><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#52717F'><span
  title=3D"http://www.timedisciple.com/"><a =
href=3D"http://www.timedisciple.com/">http://www.timedisciple.com</a></sp=
an></font><font
  size=3D1 color=3D"#52717f" face=3DVerdana><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Verdana;color:#52717F'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  </span>
 </tr>
 <tr height=3D80 style=3D'height:60.05pt'>
  <td width=3D627 colspan=3D4 height=3D80 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:470.3pt;padding:
  0cm .5pt 0cm .5pt;height:60.05pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
  margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0cm'><font size=3D1 color=3Dgray =
face=3DArial><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:gray'>The information
  contained in this message and any files transmitted with it are =
private and
  confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual(s) =
or
  entity to whom they are addressed. Any unauthorised disclosure, =
reproduction,
  distribution or improper use of this communication is strictly =
prohibited. If
  you are not the intended recipient please contact Time Disciple =
Limited on
  +6493616500 or notify sender by replying and deleting the message =
without
  copying or disclosing it. No warranties or assurances are made or =
given as to
  the accuracy of the information given or in relation to the safety of =
this
  e-mail and any attachments. </span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy><span
  lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 24 August =
2007 10:40
a.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I assume
that EP already earned will be counted for purposes of the modifier e.g. =
Elves
that have earned 400,000 at time of adoption have a modifier of 1.0 from =
then
on.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Are you
proposing that this is applied retrospectively? i.e. an elf that has =
earned
500,000 gets ((500k - 400k)*0.2) + (400k - 200k) * 0.1) added back (I =
don't
think this maths isn't quite correct, but near enough for =
discussion)?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Errol</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From: =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<a
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]On=
 Behalf
Of</span></font> <br>
<st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Jonathan
 Bean</span></font></st1:PersonName> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Friday, 24 August =
2007 08:56</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers -
Rule change?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>I would
like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed =
rule</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>change for the next =
rulebook at the
end of section 2.2</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>----------------------------------------------=
--------------------------</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>--</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Racial =
Modifiers</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A Racial Modifier above =
1.0 will be
lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>for each 200,000 =
experience points
that the character has earned.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Example:</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A Giant starts with a =
1.5 Racial
Modifier. Once the character has had</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>200,000 experience =
points their
modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Modifier. The same Giant =
after
earning an additional 200,000 experience</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>points will again lower =
their
Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Kind
regards,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Jono Bean</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- to
unsubscribe notify <a =
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
>
--</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromStephen Martin
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 11:16:26 +1200 (NZST)
The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and stats that works well
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG.

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd love to get rid of
the EM.
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been applied to specific
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them and how they think it
worked?

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and avoid too many 'best'
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any adjustment to EMs as the
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked.

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers...

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15 adventures at a total
cost of 18,000xp.
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total cost of 51,000xp.
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a total cost of 155,000xp.
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and attendance, above
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7 at low, 10 at medium,
the rest at high.


Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs.
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable result at the low EM end,
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end.

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the EM one level.
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs reduce quickly, but
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while.

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean wrote:
>
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Racial Modifiers
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.
>
> Example:
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Jono Bean
>
>
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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJonathan Bean
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 11:47:12 +1200
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Stephen wrote:

>An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy
off the EM one level.

>E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)

>1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp

>1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp

>1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp

>1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp

>1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp

=20

>1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures

>1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures

>1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures

>1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures

=20

>Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher
EMs reduce quickly, but

>getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while.

=20

>Cheers, Stephen.

=20

Yes I looked at reducing the EM by 0.1 for each 50,000 exp 'spent' on
the EM but its not as simple for GMs and players at the time that GMs
check the ranking book to add up as the numbers change. Having a simple
fixed across the board all races - one number is easy. I know it's a
small thing. I don't know about other GMs but after a day at work, when
it comes to GMing I would like simple. I figure these days I am happy
with something that's clear and simple and close to working fairly for
everyone.

=20

Jono

=20

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Stephen wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;An Alternative would be an amount that must be =
lost to
the EM to buy off the EM one level.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to =
1.4)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.5 to 1.4 requires earning =
150,000xp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.4 to 1.3 requires earning =
175,000xp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.3 to 1.2 requires earning =
216,667xp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.2 to 1.1 requires earning =
300,000xp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.1 to 1.0 requires earning =
550,000xp<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 =
adventures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 =
adventures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 =
adventures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 =
adventures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this =
method
as the higher <st1:place w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place> reduce quickly, =
but<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;getting rid of the lower <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>
could take a while.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&gt;Cheers, Stephen.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;</span></font><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:
Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Yes I looked at reducing the EM by 0.1 for each =
50,000 exp &#8216;spent&#8217;
on the EM but its not as simple for GMs and players at the time that GMs =
check
the ranking book to add up as the numbers change. Having a simple fixed =
across the
board all races &#8211; one number is easy. I know it&#8217;s a small =
thing. I
don&#8217;t know about other GMs but after a day at work, when it comes =
to
GMing I would like simple. I figure these days I am happy with something =
that&#8217;s
clear and simple and close to working fairly for =
everyone.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Jono<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 11:40:50 +1200
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If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is
important we could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM
in one step

e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the
flagpole)

1.5 1,000,000
1.4 850,000
1.3 700,000
1.2 550,000
1.1 400,000

We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I
mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired.

Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Stephen Martin
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?


The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and
stats that works well
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG.

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd
love to get rid of
the EM.
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been
applied to specific
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them
and how they think it
worked?

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and
avoid too many 'best'
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any
adjustment to EMs as the
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked.

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers...

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15
adventures at a total
cost of 18,000xp.
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total
cost of 51,000xp.
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a
total cost of 155,000xp.
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total
cost of 221,000xp.

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and
attendance, above
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7
at low, 10 at medium,
the rest at high.


Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs.
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable
result at the low EM end,
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end.

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the
EM one level.
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs
reduce quickly, but
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while.

Cheers, Stephen.

Jonathan Bean wrote:
>
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Racial Modifiers
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.
>
> Example:
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Jono Bean
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an =
character's EM is important we could have a simple table of the EP =
required to remove the EM in one step</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the =
concept up the flagpole)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.5 1,000,000</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.4 850,000</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.3 700,000</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.2 550,000</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.1 400,000</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the =
implied curve (I mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Stephen Martin</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule =
change?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The EM is and always has been a balance for the =
non-human abilities and stats that works well</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>enough in a short to medium term campaign.&nbsp; Our =
campaign is LONG.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of =
xp over the years, I'd love to get rid of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the EM.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>A variety of options have been discussed over the =
years, and some have been applied to specific</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>characters.&nbsp; Could some of those players =
volunteer what was done for them and how they think it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>worked?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In the interests of fair-play and our preference to =
promote diversity and avoid too many 'best'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it =
is important that any adjustment to EMs as the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>balance for Racial benefits should be carefully =
checked.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Looking into the balance aspect I've been running =
some numbers...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have =
cleared their EM after 15 adventures at a total</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cost of 18,000xp.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 =
adventures at a total cost of 51,000xp.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM =
after 45 adventures at a total cost of 155,000xp.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 =
adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award =
for preparation and attendance, above</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>average award for roleplaying and contribution, and =
3 adventures at bunny, 7 at low, 10 at medium,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the rest at high.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 =
and 1.2 EMs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces =
a more reasonable result at the low EM end,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>then it becomes very expensive at the high EM =
end.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost =
to the EM to buy off the EM one level.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this =
method as the higher EMs reduce quickly, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>getting rid of the lower EMs could take a =
while.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers, Stephen.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jonathan Bean wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I would like to add to the agenda for next gods =
meeting a proposed rule</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; change for the next rulebook at the end of =
section 2.2</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Racial Modifiers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by =
0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; for each 200,000 experience points that the =
character has earned.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Example:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once =
the character has had</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 200,000 experience points their modifier will =
be lowered to 1.4 Racial</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Modifier. The same Giant after earning an =
additional 200,000 experience</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; points will again lower their Racial Modifier =
to 1.3 etc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Kind regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Jono Bean</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A =
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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJohanna and Hamish
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 13:38:34 +1200
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Hi there everyone

 

I am in favor of finding a good way to remove the RM's.  I think that the
important criteria are that it seems fair (i.e. that people pay about what
the racial abilities are worth) and that the fix is simple.

 

I am sorry but I do not understand the tables on the wiki.  I am quite
bright but not a mathematician so I am sure if someone explained it too me
or I looked closely I would understand it however.. Lets not make it
complicated, you get abilities when non human - these abilities should be
paid for.  What do we agree they are worth. 

 

The ep value does not have to be perfect we are not all going to agree
anyway.  Even though I suspect most of us will agree that RM are a little
mad the way they are currently being played as lasting forever and want a
fix. 

 

So for the sake of simplicity I like Jono's suggestion.  Is the advantage of
being a giant worth 200,000 per.1?  I don't really think so - but I play a
giant and I don't care enough to argue on his behalf.  Is 400,000 about
right for an elf (26AG and witchsight)?  Maybe a little cheep - again don't
care - It's nice and Simple.

 

Hamish  

 

 

 

Hamish Brown

Director

 

Zenergy

Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

119 Mt Eden Rd,

Auckland

www.zenergyglobal.com 

 

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 mmmm 2007 11:41
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

 

If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is
important we could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM
in one step

e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the
flagpole) 

1.5 1,000,000 
1.4 850,000 
1.3 700,000 
1.2 550,000 
1.1 400,000 

We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I
mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired. 

Cheers 
Errol 

-----Original Message----- 
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of 
Stephen Martin 
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16 
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz 
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change? 

 

The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and
stats that works well 
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG. 

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd
love to get rid of 
the EM. 
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been
applied to specific 
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them
and how they think it 
worked? 

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and
avoid too many 'best' 
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any
adjustment to EMs as the 
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked. 

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers... 

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15
adventures at a total 
cost of 18,000xp. 
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total
cost of 51,000xp. 
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a
total cost of 155,000xp. 
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total
cost of 221,000xp. 

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and
attendance, above 
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7
at low, 10 at medium, 
the rest at high. 

 

Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs. 
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable
result at the low EM end, 
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end. 

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the
EM one level. 
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4) 
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp 
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp 
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp 
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp 
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp 

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures 
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures 
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures 
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures 

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs
reduce quickly, but 
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while. 

Cheers, Stephen. 

Jonathan Bean wrote: 
> 
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule 
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -- 
> Racial Modifiers 
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0) 
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned. 
> 
> Example: 
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had 
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial 
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience 
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc 
> 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> Jono Bean 
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- 
> 

 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi there =
everyone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am in favor of finding a good way =
to
remove the RM&#8217;s.&nbsp; I think that the important criteria are =
that it
seems fair (i.e. that people pay about what the racial abilities are =
worth) and
that the fix is simple.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am sorry but I do not understand =
the
tables on the wiki.&nbsp; I am quite bright but not a mathematician so I =
am sure
if someone explained it too me or I looked closely I would understand it
however&#8230;. Lets not make it complicated, you get abilities when non =
human &#8211;
these abilities should be paid for. &nbsp;What do we agree they are =
worth. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The ep value does not have to be =
perfect
we are not all going to agree anyway.&nbsp; Even though I suspect most =
of us
will agree that RM are a little mad the way they are currently being =
played as
lasting forever and want a fix. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So for the sake of simplicity I =
like Jono&#8217;s
suggestion.&nbsp; Is the advantage of being a giant worth 200,000 per.1? =
&nbsp;I
don&#8217;t really think so &#8211; but I play a giant and I don&#8217;t =
care
enough to argue on his behalf. &nbsp;Is 400,000 about right for an elf =
(26AG
and witchsight)? &nbsp;Maybe a little cheep &#8211; again don&#8217;t =
care &#8211;
It&#8217;s nice and Simple.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua";color:blue'>Whole =
People
Co-operating in a Sustainable world<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 24 mmmm =
2007 11:41<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>If we
don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is =
important we
could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM in one =
step</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>e.g.
(numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the =
flagpole)</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5
1,000,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 =
850,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.3 =
700,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 =
550,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 =
400,000</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>We can
change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I mis-typed =
that
as 'curse'!!) above as desired.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Errol</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From: =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<a
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]On=
 Behalf
Of</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Stephen =
Martin</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Friday, 24 August =
2007 11:16</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The EM is
and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and stats that =
works
well</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>enough in a short to =
medium term
campaign.&nbsp; Our campaign is LONG.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>As a
player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd =
love to
get rid of</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the EM.</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A variety of options =
have been
discussed over the years, and some have been applied to =
specific</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>characters.&nbsp; Could =
some of
those players volunteer what was done for them and how they think =
it</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>worked?</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>In the
interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and avoid =
too
many 'best'</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>options (Colleges, =
Races, Skills,
etc.), I think it is important that any adjustment to <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>
as the</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>balance for Racial =
benefits should
be carefully checked.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Looking
into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers...</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dwarves,
Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15 =
adventures at a
total</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>cost of =
18,000xp.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Elves (1.2 EM) will have =
cleared
their EM after 25 adventures at a total cost of 51,000xp.</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Shapechangers (1.4 EM) =
will have
cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a total cost of =
155,000xp.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Giants (1.5 EM) will =
have cleared
their EM after 55 adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>NB This
is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and =
attendance,
above</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>average award for =
roleplaying and
contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7 at low, 10 at =
medium,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the rest at =
high.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Gut feel
is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>If we bump up the =
200,000 to
something that produces a more reasonable result at the low EM =
end,</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>then it becomes very =
expensive at
the high EM end.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>An
Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off =
the EM
one level.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>E.g. 50,000 per point =
(e.g. 1.5 to
1.4)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5 to 1.4 requires =
earning
150,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 to 1.3 requires =
earning
175,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.3 to 1.2 requires =
earning
216,667xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 to 1.1 requires =
earning
300,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 to 1.0 requires =
earning
550,000xp</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 EM
will be cleared after 33 adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 EM will be cleared =
after 48
adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 EM will be cleared =
after 67
adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5 EM will be cleared =
after 79
adventures</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Whatever
the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs reduce
quickly, but</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>getting rid of the lower =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place> could take a while.</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers,
Stephen.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Jonathan
Bean wrote:</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; I would like to add =
to the
agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; change for the next =
rulebook
at the end of section 2.2</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
/span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; --</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Racial =
Modifiers</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; A Racial Modifier =
above 1.0
will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for each 200,000 =
experience
points that the character has earned.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =
Example:</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; A Giant starts with =
a 1.5
Racial Modifier. Once the character has had</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; 200,000 experience =
points
their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Modifier. The same =
Giant after
earning an additional 200,000 experience</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; points will again =
lower their
Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Kind =
regards,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Jono =
Bean</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; -- to unsubscribe =
notify <a
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
> --</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- to
unsubscribe notify <a =
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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 13:44:16 +1200
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A possible refinement of this: two steps instead of one:
 
to get from 1.5 to 1.2 : 450,000 (will have cost 150,000EP)
to get from 1.4 to 1.2 : 300,000 (cost 87,514EP)
no races have 1.3
to get from 1.2 to 1.0 : 550,000 (in addition to above if you started at
1.5/1.4)
to get from 1.1 to 1.0 : 450,000 (ditto)
 
This gives us lots of flexibility (can change any of the four figures in the
table to get the effect we want), while being simple (you have to keep track
of raw EP earned, worse case is that Giants and shape-changers have 3 racial
mods over their life, everyone else has 2 or 1).
 
Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of Errol
Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:41
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?



If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is
important we could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM
in one step

e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the
flagpole) 

1.5 1,000,000 
1.4 850,000 
1.3 700,000 
1.2 550,000 
1.1 400,000 

We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I
mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired. 

Cheers 
Errol 

-----Original Message----- 
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [ mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> ]On Behalf Of 
Stephen Martin 
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16 
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz 
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change? 


The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and
stats that works well 
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG. 

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd
love to get rid of 
the EM. 
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been
applied to specific 
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them
and how they think it 
worked? 

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and
avoid too many 'best' 
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any
adjustment to EMs as the 
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked. 

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers... 

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15
adventures at a total 
cost of 18,000xp. 
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total
cost of 51,000xp. 
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a
total cost of 155,000xp. 
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total
cost of 221,000xp. 

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and
attendance, above 
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7
at low, 10 at medium, 
the rest at high. 


Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs. 
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable
result at the low EM end, 
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end. 

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the
EM one level. 
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4) 
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp 
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp 
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp 
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp 
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp 

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures 
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures 
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures 
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures 

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs
reduce quickly, but 
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while. 

Cheers, Stephen. 

Jonathan Bean wrote: 
> 
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule 
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -- 
> Racial Modifiers 
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0) 
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned. 
> 
> Example: 
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had 
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial 
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience 
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc 
> 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> Jono Bean 
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz
<mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>  -- 
> 


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<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A 
possible refinement of this: two steps instead of one:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>to get 
from 1.5 to 1.2 : 450,000 (will have cost 150,000EP)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>to get from 1.4 
to 1.2 : 300,000 (cost 87,514EP)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007>no races have 1.3</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial 
color=#0000ff size=2>to get from 1.2 to 1.0 : 550,000 (in addition to above if 
you started at 1.5/1.4)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>to get from 1.1 
to 1.0 : 450,000 (ditto)</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007>This gives us lots of flexibility (can change any of 
the four figures in the table to get the effect we want), while being simple 
(you have to keep track of raw EP earned, worse case is that Giants and 
shape-changers have 3 racial mods over their life, everyone else has 2 or 
1).</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007>Cheers</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007><SPAN class=195131501-24082007><SPAN 
class=195131501-24082007>Errol</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz 
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Errol Cavit<BR><B>Sent:</B> 
  Friday, 24 August 2007 11:41<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> 
  Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=2>If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an 
  character's EM is important we could have a simple table of the EP required to 
  remove the EM in one step</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept 
  up the flagpole)</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>1.5 1,000,000</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.4 850,000</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>1.3 700,000</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.2 550,000</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>1.1 400,000</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied 
  curve (I mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Errol</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From: 
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A 
  href="mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]On Behalf 
  Of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Stephen Martin</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Sent: 
  Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To: 
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - 
  Rule change?</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human 
  abilities and stats that works well</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>enough in a short 
  to medium term campaign.&nbsp; Our campaign is LONG.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over 
  the years, I'd love to get rid of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the EM.</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and 
  some have been applied to specific</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>characters.&nbsp; 
  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them and how they 
  think it</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>worked?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote 
  diversity and avoid too many 'best'</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>options (Colleges, 
  Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any adjustment to EMs as 
  the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>balance for Racial benefits should be carefully 
  checked.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some 
  numbers...</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their 
  EM after 15 adventures at a total</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>cost of 
  18,000xp.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM 
  after 25 adventures at a total cost of 51,000xp.</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures 
  at a total cost of 155,000xp.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Giants (1.5 EM) will 
  have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.</FONT> 
  </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for 
  preparation and attendance, above</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>average award for 
  roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7 at low, 10 at 
  medium,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the rest at high.</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=2>Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 
  EMs.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>If we bump up the 200,000 to something that 
  produces a more reasonable result at the low EM end,</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM 
  to buy off the EM one level.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>E.g. 50,000 per point 
  (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 
  150,000xp</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.1 to 
  1.0 requires earning 550,000xp</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.4 
  EM will be cleared after 67 adventures</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>1.5 EM will be 
  cleared after 79 adventures</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as 
  the higher EMs reduce quickly, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>getting rid of the 
  lower EMs could take a while.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Cheers, Stephen.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Jonathan Bean wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting 
  a proposed rule</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; change for the next rulebook at 
  the end of section 2.2</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; 
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; --</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Racial Modifiers</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a 
  minimum of 1.0)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; for each 200,000 experience 
  points that the character has earned.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Example:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; A Giant starts 
  with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt; 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 
  Racial</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Modifier. The same Giant after earning an 
  additional 200,000 experience</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; points will again 
  lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Kind regards,</FONT> 
  <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; Jono Bean</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT 
  size=2>&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A 
  href="mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</A> 
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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromErrol Cavit
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 14:11:26 +1200
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The first table on the wiki just shows the effect (cost in extra EP used) of
having different sized chunks of EP to have to earn using the method that
Jono proposes. It's to help us work out what value seems fairest.
 
Jono's suggestion of 200,000 chunks means for a giant to get to 1.0 they
have earn (200,000 x 5) = 1,000,000 EP, which costs them (66.667 + 57,143 +
46,154 + 33,333 + 18,182) = 221,479 EP.
 
Looking at the table we can easily see that if we use a chunk of 300,000
(instead of 200,000) for an elf on 1.2 to get to 1.0 will cost them (50,000
+ 27,273) = 77,273.
I've added a cumlative version of the table to the wiki.
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Racial_Modifiers#Effect_
of_Different_Costs
<http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Racial_Modifiers#Effect
_of_Different_Costs> 
 
Cheers
Errol
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 13:39
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?



Hi there everyone

 

I am in favor of finding a good way to remove the RM's.  I think that the
important criteria are that it seems fair (i.e. that people pay about what
the racial abilities are worth) and that the fix is simple.

 

I am sorry but I do not understand the tables on the wiki.  I am quite
bright but not a mathematician so I am sure if someone explained it too me
or I looked closely I would understand it however.... Lets not make it
complicated, you get abilities when non human - these abilities should be
paid for.  What do we agree they are worth. 

 

The ep value does not have to be perfect we are not all going to agree
anyway.  Even though I suspect most of us will agree that RM are a little
mad the way they are currently being played as lasting forever and want a
fix. 

 

So for the sake of simplicity I like Jono's suggestion.  Is the advantage of
being a giant worth 200,000 per.1?  I don't really think so - but I play a
giant and I don't care enough to argue on his behalf.  Is 400,000 about
right for an elf (26AG and witchsight)?  Maybe a little cheep - again don't
care - It's nice and Simple.

 

Hamish  

 

 

 

Hamish Brown

Director

 

Zenergy

Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

119 Mt Eden Rd,

Auckland

www.zenergyglobal.com 

 


  _____  


From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 mmmm 2007 11:41
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

 

If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is
important we could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM
in one step

e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the
flagpole) 

1.5 1,000,000 
1.4 850,000 
1.3 700,000 
1.2 550,000 
1.1 400,000 

We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I
mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired. 

Cheers 
Errol 

-----Original Message----- 
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [ mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
<mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz> ]On Behalf Of 
Stephen Martin 
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16 
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz 
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change? 

 

The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and
stats that works well 
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG. 

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd
love to get rid of 
the EM. 
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been
applied to specific 
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them
and how they think it 
worked? 

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and
avoid too many 'best' 
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any
adjustment to EMs as the 
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked. 

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers... 

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15
adventures at a total 
cost of 18,000xp. 
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total
cost of 51,000xp. 
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a
total cost of 155,000xp. 
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total
cost of 221,000xp. 

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and
attendance, above 
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7
at low, 10 at medium, 
the rest at high. 

 

Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs. 
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable
result at the low EM end, 
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end. 

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the
EM one level. 
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4) 
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp 
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp 
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp 
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp 
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp 

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures 
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures 
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures 
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures 

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs
reduce quickly, but 
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while. 

Cheers, Stephen. 

Jonathan Bean wrote: 
> 
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule 
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -- 
> Racial Modifiers 
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0) 
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned. 
> 
> Example: 
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had 
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial 
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience 
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc 
> 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> Jono Bean 
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz
<mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz>  -- 
> 

 

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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dblue link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The=20
first table on the wiki just shows the effect (cost in extra EP used) =
of having=20
different sized chunks of EP to have to earn using the method that Jono =

proposes. It's to help us work out what value seems =
fairest.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Jono's=20
suggestion of 200,000&nbsp;chunks means for a giant to get to 1.0 they =
have earn=20
(200,000 x 5) =3D 1,000,000 EP, which costs them&nbsp;(66.667 + 57,143 =
+ 46,154 +=20
33,333 + 18,182) =3D 221,479 EP.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Looking at the table we can easily see that if we use a chunk =
of 300,000=20
(instead of 200,000) for an elf on 1.2 to get to 1.0 will cost them =
(50,000 +=20
27,273) =3D 77,273.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I've=20
added a cumlative version of the table to the wiki.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Racial_Modif=
iers#Effect_of_Different_Costs">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/ind=
ex.php/Talk:Racial_Modifiers#Effect_of_Different_Costs</A></FONT></SPAN>=
</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D733044501-24082007><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Johanna and=20
  Hamish<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 24 August 2007 13:39<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule=20
  change?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi there=20
  everyone<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am in =
favor of=20
  finding a good way to remove the RM's.&nbsp; I think that the =
important=20
  criteria are that it seems fair (i.e. that people pay about what the =
racial=20
  abilities are worth) and that the fix is =
simple.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am sorry =
but I do=20
  not understand the tables on the wiki.&nbsp; I am quite bright but =
not a=20
  mathematician so I am sure if someone explained it too me or I looked =
closely=20
  I would understand it however.... Lets not make it complicated, you =
get=20
  abilities when non human - these abilities should be paid for. =
&nbsp;What do=20
  we agree they are worth. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The ep =
value does not=20
  have to be perfect we are not all going to agree anyway.&nbsp; Even =
though I=20
  suspect most of us will agree that RM are a little mad the way they =
are=20
  currently being played as lasting forever and want a fix.=20
  <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So for the =
sake of=20
  simplicity I like Jono's suggestion.&nbsp; Is the advantage of being =
a giant=20
  worth 200,000 per.1? &nbsp;I don't really think so - but I play a =
giant and I=20
  don't care enough to argue on his behalf. &nbsp;Is 400,000 about =
right for an=20
  elf (26AG and witchsight)? &nbsp;Maybe a little cheep - again don't =
care -=20
  It's nice and Simple.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hamish=20
  &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" =
align=3Dcenter><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
  <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D3>
  </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">=20
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Errol =
Cavit<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, 24 mmmm 2007=20
  11:41<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> =
<st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers - Rule=20
  change?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">If we=20
  don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is =
important we=20
  could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM in one=20
  step</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">e.g.=20
  (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the=20
  flagpole)</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.5=20
  1,000,000</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.4=20
  850,000</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.3=20
  700,000</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.2=20
  550,000</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.1=20
  400,000</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">We can=20
  change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I =
mis-typed that=20
  as 'curse'!!) above as desired.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cheers</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Errol</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----</SPAN></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz =
[<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf=20
  Of</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Stephen=20
  Martin</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Sent:=20
  Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To: <st1:PersonName=20
  w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject: Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers - Rule=20
  change?</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">The EM is=20
  and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and stats =
that works=20
  well</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">enough in a=20
  short to medium term campaign.&nbsp; Our campaign is =
LONG.</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">As a=20
  player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, =
I'd love=20
  to get rid of</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">the=20
  EM.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">A variety of=20
  options have been discussed over the years, and some have been =
applied to=20
  specific</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">characters.&nbsp; Could some of those =
players=20
  volunteer what was done for them and how they think it</SPAN></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">worked?</SPAN></FONT> =
<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">In the=20
  interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and =
avoid too=20
  many 'best'</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I =
think it is=20
  important that any adjustment to <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place> as=20
  the</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">balance for=20
  Racial benefits should be carefully checked.</SPAN></FONT> =
<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Looking=20
  into the balance aspect I've been running some =
numbers...</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Dwarves,=20
  Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15 =
adventures at=20
  a total</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">cost of=20
  18,000xp.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Elves=20
  (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total =
cost of=20
  51,000xp.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared =
their EM=20
  after 45 adventures at a total cost of 155,000xp.</SPAN></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Giants (1.5 EM) will have =
cleared their=20
  EM after 55 adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">NB This=20
  is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and =
attendance,=20
  above</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">average=20
  award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7 =
at low,=20
  10 at medium,</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">the=20
  rest at high.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Gut feel=20
  is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 <st1:place=20
  w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">If we bump up the 200,000 to something that =
produces a=20
  more reasonable result at the low EM end,</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">then it becomes very expensive at the high =
EM=20
  end.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">An=20
  Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off =
the EM=20
  one level.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">E.g.=20
  50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4)</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.5 to 1.4 requires earning =
150,000xp</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.4 to 1.3 =
requires earning=20
  175,000xp</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.3 to=20
  1.2 requires earning 216,667xp</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.2 to 1.1 requires earning =
300,000xp</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.1 to 1.0 =
requires earning=20
  550,000xp</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.1 EM=20
  will be cleared after 33 adventures</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.2 EM will be cleared after 48=20
  adventures</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">1.4 EM=20
  will be cleared after 67 adventures</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1.5 EM will be cleared after 79=20
  adventures</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Whatever=20
  the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs =
reduce=20
  quickly, but</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">getting rid of the lower <st1:place=20
  w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place> could take a while.</SPAN></FONT> =
<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Cheers,=20
  Stephen.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">Jonathan=20
  Bean wrote:</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; I would like to add to the agenda for =
next gods=20
  meeting a proposed rule</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; change for the next rulebook at the =
end of=20
  section 2.2</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;=20
  =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; =
--</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; Racial =
Modifiers</SPAN></FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; A Racial =
Modifier above=20
  1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)</SPAN></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; for each 200,000 =
experience points=20
  that the character has earned.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; Example:</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial =
Modifier. Once=20
  the character has had</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; 200,000 experience points their =
modifier will be=20
  lowered to 1.4 Racial</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; Modifier. The same Giant after earning =
an=20
  additional 200,000 experience</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; points will again lower their Racial =
Modifier to=20
  1.3 etc</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; Kind regards,</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; Jono Bean</SPAN></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt; -- to unsubscribe notify <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A>=20
  --</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt">&gt;</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">-- to=20
  unsubscribe notify <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</=
A>=20
  --</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromHelen Saggers
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 15:08:29 +1200
I agree at least in principal with lossing these mods, I hate that after
years of play a character that should be as capable as its human
counterparts isn't because its been loosing 10, 20% or more of its ep each
time long after the intial advantage is gone, even though in theroy I've
done just as much work, taken just as much risk, and learned just as much as
the nexted character.
More when I have more time Im running late now.

Helen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jonathan Bean" <jonathanB@timedisciple.com>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 8:55 AM
Subject: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?



I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule
change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Racial Modifiers
A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)
for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned.

Example:
A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had
200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial
Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience
points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc


Kind regards,
Jono Bean


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromJohanna and Hamish
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 15:19:45 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sure OK - that helps me make sense of it.

 

However the point I am making is that I am not sure if that level of detail
helps us too much.  

 

We could work out that a Giant gets a net plus of 10 stat points at 5000 per
point = 50,000, plus 3 points of TMR at say 10,000??? Each (hard to value),
plus 250ft of infravision (again hard to value),  on the down side they are
big and this rules out many games in towns or requiring stealth, also in
combat they tend to be the primary targets because they are threatening.  On
the up side because they are threatening they make good negotiators.. etc
etc etc..

 

The up shot of all this is that it is hard to say exactly what being a giant
is worth.  Paying a modifier for 1,100,000ep (which the table tells me is
221,479ep) needs to 'feel about right' to most of us.  And the rule needs to
be simple for every one to use.

 

I guess if I was to suggest a change I would say that 200,000 is fine for
the 1.1 and 1.2 mods, that giants should have to earn 150,000 per .1
reduction and that shape changers are broken anyway so it doesn't matter (or
reduce them to 1.2 or turn shape changers in bad asses and keep the 1.4 -
both outside of this conversation).

 

However like I said we will not all agree exactly - so, so long as it 'seems
about right' and is simple I will agree to it 

 

Hamish

 

 

 

 

 

Hamish Brown

Director

 

Zenergy

Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

119 Mt Eden Rd,

Auckland

www.zenergyglobal.com 

 

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 mmmm 2007 2:11
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

 

The first table on the wiki just shows the effect (cost in extra EP used) of
having different sized chunks of EP to have to earn using the method that
Jono proposes. It's to help us work out what value seems fairest.

 

Jono's suggestion of 200,000 chunks means for a giant to get to 1.0 they
have earn (200,000 x 5) = 1,000,000 EP, which costs them (66.667 + 57,143 +
46,154 + 33,333 + 18,182) = 221,479 EP.

 

Looking at the table we can easily see that if we use a chunk of 300,000
(instead of 200,000) for an elf on 1.2 to get to 1.0 will cost them (50,000
+ 27,273) = 77,273.

I've added a cumlative version of the table to the wiki.

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Racial_Modifiers#Effect_
of_Different_Costs

 

Cheers

Errol

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Johanna and Hamish
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 13:39
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

Hi there everyone

 

I am in favor of finding a good way to remove the RM's.  I think that the
important criteria are that it seems fair (i.e. that people pay about what
the racial abilities are worth) and that the fix is simple.

 

I am sorry but I do not understand the tables on the wiki.  I am quite
bright but not a mathematician so I am sure if someone explained it too me
or I looked closely I would understand it however.... Lets not make it
complicated, you get abilities when non human - these abilities should be
paid for.  What do we agree they are worth. 

 

The ep value does not have to be perfect we are not all going to agree
anyway.  Even though I suspect most of us will agree that RM are a little
mad the way they are currently being played as lasting forever and want a
fix. 

 

So for the sake of simplicity I like Jono's suggestion.  Is the advantage of
being a giant worth 200,000 per.1?  I don't really think so - but I play a
giant and I don't care enough to argue on his behalf.  Is 400,000 about
right for an elf (26AG and witchsight)?  Maybe a little cheep - again don't
care - It's nice and Simple.

 

Hamish  

 

 

 

Hamish Brown

Director

 

Zenergy

Whole People Co-operating in a Sustainable world

119 Mt Eden Rd,

Auckland

www.zenergyglobal.com 

 


  _____  


From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Errol Cavit
Sent: Friday, 24 mmmm 2007 11:41
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?

 

If we don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is
important we could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM
in one step

e.g. (numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the
flagpole) 

1.5 1,000,000 
1.4 850,000 
1.3 700,000 
1.2 550,000 
1.1 400,000 

We can change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I
mis-typed that as 'curse'!!) above as desired. 

Cheers 
Errol 

-----Original Message----- 
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of 
Stephen Martin 
Sent: Friday, 24 August 2007 11:16 
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz 
Subject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change? 

 

The EM is and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and
stats that works well 
enough in a short to medium term campaign.  Our campaign is LONG. 

As a player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd
love to get rid of 
the EM. 
A variety of options have been discussed over the years, and some have been
applied to specific 
characters.  Could some of those players volunteer what was done for them
and how they think it 
worked? 

In the interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and
avoid too many 'best' 
options (Colleges, Races, Skills, etc.), I think it is important that any
adjustment to EMs as the 
balance for Racial benefits should be carefully checked. 

Looking into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers... 

Dwarves, Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15
adventures at a total 
cost of 18,000xp. 
Elves (1.2 EM) will have cleared their EM after 25 adventures at a total
cost of 51,000xp. 
Shapechangers (1.4 EM) will have cleared their EM after 45 adventures at a
total cost of 155,000xp. 
Giants (1.5 EM) will have cleared their EM after 55 adventures at a total
cost of 221,000xp. 

NB This is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and
attendance, above 
average award for roleplaying and contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7
at low, 10 at medium, 
the rest at high. 

 

Gut feel is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 EMs. 
If we bump up the 200,000 to something that produces a more reasonable
result at the low EM end, 
then it becomes very expensive at the high EM end. 

An Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off the
EM one level. 
E.g. 50,000 per point (e.g. 1.5 to 1.4) 
1.5 to 1.4 requires earning 150,000xp 
1.4 to 1.3 requires earning 175,000xp 
1.3 to 1.2 requires earning 216,667xp 
1.2 to 1.1 requires earning 300,000xp 
1.1 to 1.0 requires earning 550,000xp 

1.1 EM will be cleared after 33 adventures 
1.2 EM will be cleared after 48 adventures 
1.4 EM will be cleared after 67 adventures 
1.5 EM will be cleared after 79 adventures 

Whatever the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs
reduce quickly, but 
getting rid of the lower EMs could take a while. 

Cheers, Stephen. 

Jonathan Bean wrote: 
> 
> I would like to add to the agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule 
> change for the next rulebook at the end of section 2.2 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> -- 
> Racial Modifiers 
> A Racial Modifier above 1.0 will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0) 
> for each 200,000 experience points that the character has earned. 
> 
> Example: 
> A Giant starts with a 1.5 Racial Modifier. Once the character has had 
> 200,000 experience points their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial 
> Modifier. The same Giant after earning an additional 200,000 experience 
> points will again lower their Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc 
> 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> Jono Bean 
> 
> 
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz -- 
> 

 

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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Sure OK &#8211; that helps me make =
sense
of it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However the point I am making is =
that I am
not sure if that level of detail helps us too much. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We could work out that a Giant gets =
a net plus
of 10 stat points at 5000 per point =3D 50,000, plus 3 points of TMR at =
say
10,000??? Each (hard to value), plus 250ft of infravision (again hard to =
value),&nbsp;
on the down side they are big and this rules out many games in towns or
requiring stealth, also in combat they tend to be the primary targets =
because
they are threatening. &nbsp;On the up side because they are threatening =
they
make good negotiators&#8230;&#8230; etc etc =
etc..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The up shot of all this is that it =
is hard
to say exactly what being a giant is worth.&nbsp; Paying a modifier for =
1,100,000ep
(which the table tells me is 221,479ep) needs to &#8216;feel about =
right&#8217;
to most of us.&nbsp; And the rule needs to be simple for every one to =
use.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I guess if I was to suggest a =
change I would
say that 200,000 is fine for the 1.1 and 1.2 mods, that giants should =
have to
earn 150,000 per .1 reduction and that shape changers are broken anyway =
so it doesn&#8217;t
matter (or reduce them to 1.2 or turn shape changers in bad asses and =
keep the
1.4 &#8211; both outside of this =
conversation).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>However like I said we will not all =
agree
exactly &#8211; so, so long as it &#8216;seems about right&#8217; and is =
simple
I will agree to it <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hamish<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DDE
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 24 mmmm =
2007 2:11<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The first table on the wiki just =
shows the
effect (cost in extra EP used) of having different sized chunks of EP to =
have
to earn using the method that Jono proposes. It's to help us work out =
what
value seems fairest.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Jono's suggestion of =
200,000&nbsp;chunks
means for a giant to get to 1.0 they have earn (200,000 x 5) =3D =
1,000,000 EP,
which costs them&nbsp;(66.667 + 57,143 + 46,154 + 33,333 + 18,182) =3D =
221,479
EP.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Looking at the table we can easily =
see
that if we use a chunk of 300,000 (instead of 200,000) for an elf on 1.2 =
to get
to 1.0 will cost them (50,000 + 27,273) =3D =
77,273.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I've added a cumlative version of =
the
table to the wiki.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><a
href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Talk:Racial_Modifi=
ers#Effect_of_Different_Costs">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index=
.php/Talk:Racial_Modifiers#Effect_of_Different_Costs</a></span></font><o:=
p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Cheers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Errol</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of</span></b>
Johanna and Hamish<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 24 August =
2007 13:39<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi there =
everyone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am in favor of finding a good way =
to
remove the RM's.&nbsp; I think that the important criteria are that it =
seems
fair (i.e. that people pay about what the racial abilities are worth) =
and that
the fix is simple.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am sorry but I do not understand =
the
tables on the wiki.&nbsp; I am quite bright but not a mathematician so I =
am
sure if someone explained it too me or I looked closely I would =
understand it
however.... Lets not make it complicated, you get abilities when non =
human -
these abilities should be paid for. &nbsp;What do we agree they are =
worth. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The ep value does not have to be =
perfect
we are not all going to agree anyway.&nbsp; Even though I suspect most =
of us
will agree that RM are a little mad the way they are currently being =
played as
lasting forever and want a fix. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So for the sake of simplicity I =
like
Jono's suggestion.&nbsp; Is the advantage of being a giant worth 200,000 =
per.1?
&nbsp;I don't really think so - but I play a giant and I don't care =
enough to
argue on his behalf. &nbsp;Is 400,000 about right for an elf (26AG and
witchsight)? &nbsp;Maybe a little cheep - again don't care - It's nice =
and
Simple.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hamish =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
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style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua";color:blue'>Hamish =
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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua";color:blue'>Whole =
People Co-operating
in a Sustainable world<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Rd</span></font></st1:address></st1:Street><font
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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Book =
Antiqua"><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Book =
Antiqua";color:black'>www.zenergyglobal.com
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabIndex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Errol Cavit<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 24 mmmm =
2007 11:41<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>If we
don't think that a _graduated_ reduction in an character's EM is =
important we
could have a simple table of the EP required to remove the EM in one =
step</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>e.g.
(numbers pulled from thin air, just running the concept up the =
flagpole)</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5
1,000,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 =
850,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.3 =
700,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 =
550,000</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 =
400,000</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>We can
change the endpoints, angle, and shape of the implied curve (I mis-typed =
that
as 'curse'!!) above as desired.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Errol</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-----Original
Message-----</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>From: =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<a
href=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</a>]On=
 Behalf
Of</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Stephen =
Martin</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Friday, 24 August =
2007 11:16</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>To: <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName></span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: Re: [dq] Racial =
Modifiers
- Rule change?</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>The EM is
and always has been a balance for the non-human abilities and stats that =
works
well</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>enough in a short to =
medium term
campaign.&nbsp; Our campaign is LONG.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>As a
player of a character who has discarded a lot of xp over the years, I'd =
love to
get rid of</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the EM.</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>A variety of options =
have been
discussed over the years, and some have been applied to =
specific</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>characters.&nbsp; Could =
some of
those players volunteer what was done for them and how they think =
it</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>worked?</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>In the
interests of fair-play and our preference to promote diversity and avoid =
too
many 'best'</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>options (Colleges, =
Races, Skills,
etc.), I think it is important that any adjustment to <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>
as the</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>balance for Racial =
benefits should
be carefully checked.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Looking
into the balance aspect I've been running some numbers...</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Dwarves,
Halflings and Orcs (1.1 EM) will have cleared their EM after 15 =
adventures at a
total</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>cost of =
18,000xp.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Elves (1.2 EM) will have =
cleared
their EM after 25 adventures at a total cost of 51,000xp.</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Shapechangers (1.4 EM) =
will have cleared
their EM after 45 adventures at a total cost of 155,000xp.</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Giants (1.5 EM) will =
have cleared
their EM after 55 adventures at a total cost of 221,000xp.</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>NB This
is based on 10 nights per session, full award for preparation and =
attendance,
above</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>average award for =
roleplaying and
contribution, and 3 adventures at bunny, 7 at low, 10 at =
medium,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>the rest at =
high.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Gut feel
is that this seems a bit cheap for the 1.1 and 1.2 <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place>.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>If we bump up the =
200,000 to
something that produces a more reasonable result at the low EM =
end,</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>then it becomes very =
expensive at
the high EM end.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>An
Alternative would be an amount that must be lost to the EM to buy off =
the EM
one level.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>E.g. 50,000 per point =
(e.g. 1.5 to
1.4)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5 to 1.4 requires =
earning
150,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 to 1.3 requires =
earning
175,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.3 to 1.2 requires =
earning
216,667xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 to 1.1 requires =
earning
300,000xp</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 to 1.0 requires =
earning
550,000xp</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.1 EM
will be cleared after 33 adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.2 EM will be cleared =
after 48
adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.4 EM will be cleared =
after 67
adventures</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>1.5 EM will be cleared =
after 79
adventures</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Whatever
the actual cost per point, I prefer this method as the higher EMs reduce
quickly, but</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>getting rid of the lower =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on">EMs</st1:place> could take a while.</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Cheers,
Stephen.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Jonathan
Bean wrote:</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; I would like to add =
to the
agenda for next gods meeting a proposed rule</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; change for the next =
rulebook
at the end of section 2.2</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;
------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
/span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; --</span></font> =
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Racial =
Modifiers</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; A Racial Modifier =
above 1.0
will be lowered by 0.1 (to a minimum of 1.0)</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; for each 200,000 =
experience
points that the character has earned.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; =
Example:</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; A Giant starts with =
a 1.5
Racial Modifier. Once the character has had</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; 200,000 experience =
points
their modifier will be lowered to 1.4 Racial</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Modifier. The same =
Giant after
earning an additional 200,000 experience</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; points will again =
lower their
Racial Modifier to 1.3 etc</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Kind =
regards,</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; Jono =
Bean</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt; -- to unsubscribe =
notify <a
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
> --</span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>&gt;</span></font> =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>-- to
unsubscribe notify <a =
href=3D"mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz</a=
>
--</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromMichael Woodhams
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 15:25:03 +1200
Commenting from the cheap seats (as I no longer play, and never had a
non-human character anyhow):

I like the idea. I like Jono's suggestion better than any of the
alternatives put forward. I agree it should be reteroactive, but this
can be a separate argument.

On fairness/pricing: Non-human races get the advantages immediately 'up
front'. It makes sense that they should pay 'interest' on these
advantages. Given that a 1.1 modifier is paid off after about 15
adventures at a total cost of ~18,000 ep, it feels right to me that the
advantages gained ought to be about what one would be prepared to spend
10,000 ep on. 

So - look at the advantages of a 1.1 modifier race. Consider one of your
human characters. Would they be prepared to spend 10,000 ep to gain
those advantages? If you had 50,000 ep burning a hole in your pocket,
would you spend them on getting the advantages of being a giant if you
had the opportunity? (In each case, you wouldn't get the adverse racial
experience modifier if you buy the advantages.)


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SubjectRe: [dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?
FromIan Wood
DateFri, 24 Aug 2007 20:48:58 +1000 (EST)
--0-436975214-1187952538=:43784
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hi there,=0A=0AA while ago I looked at a system for this issue.=0AMy idea w=
as based on another's where the PC paid the non-racial bonuses out of the E=
M-payment (valuation was questionable but another issue). Once it was paid =
off, the PC could develop further racial characteristics and become more 'r=
acial' which means less uniformity across the PCs.=0A=0Aeither way i like i=
t, but i also prefer there to be the second option.=0A=0AOn another note, I=
 would like to see humans get racial bonuses. The current system assumes hu=
mans do not have any abilities that (some) other races dont. Perhaps humans=
 could ahve the bonus of socialising - abillity to interact with most other=
 races at no penalty.=0A=0Acheers Ian=0AFrom Venic where it is warm and sun=
ny though it drizzled yesterday afternoon.=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -=
---=0AFrom: Michael Woodhams <mdw@free.net.nz>=0ATo: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=0ASent=
: Friday, 24 August, 2007 3:25:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: [dq] Racial Modifiers -=
 Rule change?=0A=0A=0ACommenting from the cheap seats (as I no longer play,=
 and never had a=0Anon-human character anyhow):=0A=0AI like the idea. I lik=
e Jono's suggestion better than any of the=0Aalternatives put forward. I ag=
ree it should be reteroactive, but this=0Acan be a separate argument.=0A=0A=
On fairness/pricing: Non-human races get the advantages immediately 'up=0Af=
ront'. It makes sense that they should pay 'interest' on these=0Aadvantages=
.. Given that a 1.1 modifier is paid off after about 15=0Aadventures at a to=
tal cost of ~18,000 ep, it feels right to me that the=0Aadvantages gained o=
ught to be about what one would be prepared to spend=0A10,000 ep on. =0A=0A=
So - look at the advantages of a 1.1 modifier race. Consider one of your=0A=
human characters. Would they be prepared to spend 10,000 ep to gain=0Athose=
 advantages? If you had 50,000 ep burning a hole in your pocket,=0Awould yo=
u spend them on getting the advantages of being a giant if you=0Ahad the op=
portunity? (In each case, you wouldn't get the adverse racial=0Aexperience =
modifier if you buy the advantages.)=0A=0A=0A-- to unsubscribe notify mailt=
o:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman=
, new york, times, serif">hi there,</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV s=
tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, ser=
if">A while ago I looked at a system for this issue.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"=
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">My i=
dea was based on another's where the PC paid the non-racial bonuses out of =
the&nbsp;EM-payment (valuation was questionable but another issue). Once it=
 was paid off, the PC could develop further racial characteristics and beco=
me more 'racial' which means less uniformity across the PCs.</DIV>=0A<DIV s=
tyle=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, ser=
if">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new ro=
man, new york, times, serif">either way i like it, but i also prefer there =
to be the second option.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY=
: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FON=
T-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">On anot=
her note, I would like to see humans get racial bonuses. The current system=
 assumes humans do not have any abilities that (some) other races&nbsp;dont=
.. Perhaps humans could ahve the bonus of socialising - abillity to interact=
 with most other races at no penalty.</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt=
; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV=
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s=
erif">cheers Ian</DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times =
new roman, new york, times, serif">From Venic where it is warm and sunny th=
ough it drizzled yesterday afternoon.<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-SI=
ZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">----- Origi=
nal Message ----<BR>From: Michael Woodhams &lt;mdw@free.net.nz&gt;<BR>To: d=
q@dq.sf.org.nz<BR>Sent: Friday, 24 August, 2007 3:25:03 PM<BR>Subject: Re: =
[dq] Racial Modifiers - Rule change?<BR><BR>=0A<DIV>Commenting from the che=
ap seats (as I no longer play, and never had a<BR>non-human character anyho=
w):<BR><BR>I like the idea. I like Jono's suggestion better than any of the=
<BR>alternatives put forward. I agree it should be reteroactive, but this<B=
R>can be a separate argument.<BR><BR>On fairness/pricing: Non-human races g=
et the advantages immediately 'up<BR>front'. It makes sense that they shoul=
d pay 'interest' on these<BR>advantages. Given that a 1.1 modifier is paid =
off after about 15<BR>adventures at a total cost of ~18,000 ep, it feels ri=
ght to me that the<BR>advantages gained ought to be about what one would be=
 prepared to spend<BR>10,000 ep on. <BR><BR>So - look at the advantages of =
a 1.1 modifier race. Consider one of your<BR>human characters. Would they b=
e prepared to spend 10,000 ep to gain<BR>those advantages? If you had 50,00=
0 ep burning a hole in your pocket,<BR>would you spend them on getting the =
advantages of being a giant if
 you<BR>had the opportunity? (In each case, you wouldn't get the adverse ra=
cial<BR>experience modifier if you buy the advantages.)<BR><BR><BR>-- to un=
subscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --</DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV style=
=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">=
<BR></DIV></div></body></html>
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