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Thanks for pulling this out Ian, I saw the file on my PC a couple of days
ago but hadn't had a chance to look it over (again).
Some thoughts on the costs assigned:
a. Overall the costs assigned look reasonable (or at least consistent with
the rest of the system...)
b. As noted, the effect on changing maximum stat is excluded. My feeling is
that this is, in some cases, a significant bonus if you design your
character around it (e.g. AG 26)
c. It doesn't look like the elf inability to resurrect is factored in -
probably not significant in the overall scheme of things.
d. Orcs get -10% to strike chance for ranged combat, not a bonus. You could
argue to treat this as 0 (rather than a negative), as few PCs use ranged
combat in practice so being bad at it isn't worth taking into account. Even
if you do this, then it puts Orcs at 'hard done by' in relation to
halflings.
Overall observations:
Dwarves, Elves and halflings have a similar pattern - 40-50% of their
bonuses are stat or automatic, the rest optional skills (benefits mainly
received at Medium and High), and costs roughly align with Racial Mod.
Giants are 100% stat or automatic, stat bonuses are larger in scale than
others (+7PS, +8EN), costs appear out of kilter with Racial Mod (maybe the
per point stat cost doesn't work for big pluses).
This suggests to me that if we have trouble finding a method that works for
giants as well as everyone else, then maybe different methods will be best.
I'd rather have 2 different simple methods (only one applying to any given
character) than a more complcated single method.
Optional elements aren't really taken account of. However it's probably
reasonable to assume that all PCs take full benefit for fairness purposes -
if you are paying for the full wack, it's still better than paying a RM of
1.1/1.2 forever, and human PCs are less likely to feel hard done by when
they see the Rk10 Ranger/healer/courtier elf.
More thoughts when I'm not working..
Errol
-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On Behalf Of
Ian Wood
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 22:46
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] Alternative proposal WAS: Racial Modifiers
hi all,
I did some digging and found some incomplete documents that I looked at two
years ago with some people. I borrowed heavily on some ideas from UK etc.
the system is moderately simple:
1. quantify the value of non-human racial abilities - see excel spreadsheet
attached
2. pay that value off using the EM ep (ie the ep you dont get to spend -
giants get to pay off faster, but have more to pay)
3. once you have paid off then can choose:
a. continue with an EM multiplier and spend that portion of your ep on new
hoopy abilities - see document with some ideas attached.
b. loose the EM multiplier and all ep is available for increasing normal
abilities.
You can choose option b at any time, but never revert to option a.
For example, using the values we arrived at, an elf gains 23,500 ep worth of
statistics, 29,000 ep of racial abilities, and the option to save up to
70,600 ep on ranking certain skills to Rank 10 for a total potential benefit
of 123,000 ep. To pay this off, only using the ep lost through the elf's 1.2
EM, 615,000 ep.
A giant gains 105,000 ep of statistics, 51,000 of abilities and 0 ranking
bonuses for a total of 156,000 ep. with a multiplier of 1.5, the giant has
to earn 469,500 raw ep to pay it off.
An orc has to earn 618,750 raw ep (before EM) to pay off its bonuses -
because 0.1 is slow.
The numbers suggest the simplest idea is for the racial EM to be reduced to
1.0 once the character has earnt between 500,000 and 600,000 (raw) ep.
Whether the gods want to allow for step 3 a. above is another issue.
imo Voting issues are:
1 Racial EMs to become 1.0 after an amount of EP is earnt - yes/no
2 system - a. equal amount for each race or b. different by race -
equal/different
3. amount - how much?
4. do you use RAW ep earnt or EM lost to pay the amount? - Raw/Em
5. do we want a standard system for gaining additional racial bonuses?
cheers Ian
Where it is 36 and a bit humid but not so bad at the beach.
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<TITLE>RE: [dq] Alternative proposal WAS: Racial Modifiers</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for pulling this out Ian, I saw the file on my =
PC a couple of days ago but hadn't had a chance to look it over =
(again).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Some thoughts on the costs assigned:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>a. Overall the costs assigned look reasonable (or at =
least consistent with the rest of the system...)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>b. As noted, the effect on changing maximum stat is =
excluded. My feeling is that this is, in some cases, a significant =
bonus if you design your character around it (e.g. AG 26)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>c. It doesn't look like the elf inability to =
resurrect is factored in - probably not significant in the overall =
scheme of things.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>d. Orcs get -10% to strike chance for ranged combat, =
not a bonus. You could argue to treat this as 0 (rather than a =
negative), as few PCs use ranged combat in practice so being bad at it =
isn't worth taking into account. Even if you do this, then it puts Orcs =
at 'hard done by' in relation to halflings.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Overall observations:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dwarves, Elves and halflings have a similar pattern =
- 40-50% of their bonuses are stat or automatic, the rest optional =
skills (benefits mainly received at Medium and High), and costs roughly =
align with Racial Mod. Giants are 100% stat or automatic, stat bonuses =
are larger in scale than others (+7PS, +8EN), costs appear out of =
kilter with Racial Mod (maybe the per point stat cost doesn't work for =
big pluses). </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>This suggests to me that if we have trouble finding a =
method that works for giants as well as everyone else, then maybe =
different methods will be best. I'd rather have 2 different simple =
methods (only one applying to any given character) than a more =
complcated single method.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Optional elements aren't really taken account of. =
However it's probably reasonable to assume that all PCs take full =
benefit for fairness purposes - if you are paying for the full wack, =
it's still better than paying a RM of 1.1/1.2 forever, and human =
PCs are less likely to feel hard done by when they see the Rk10 =
Ranger/healer/courtier elf.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>More thoughts when I'm not working..</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz</A>]O=
n Behalf Of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ian Wood</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2007 22:46</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [dq] Alternative proposal WAS: Racial =
Modifiers</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>hi all,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I did some digging and found some incomplete =
documents that I looked at two years ago with some people. I borrowed =
heavily on some ideas from UK etc.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>the system is moderately simple:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1. quantify the value of non-human racial abilities =
- see excel spreadsheet attached</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2. pay that value off using the EM ep (ie the ep you =
dont get to spend - giants get to pay off faster, but have more to =
pay)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>3. once you have paid off then can choose:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> a. continue with an EM multiplier and spend =
that portion of your ep on new hoopy abilities - see document with some =
ideas attached.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> b. loose the EM multiplier and all ep is =
available for increasing normal abilities.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>You can choose option b at any time, but never =
revert to option a.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>For example, using the values we arrived at, an elf =
gains 23,500 ep worth of statistics, 29,000 ep of racial abilities, and =
the option to save up to 70,600 ep on ranking certain skills to Rank 10 =
for a total potential benefit of 123,000 ep. To pay this off, only =
using the ep lost through the elf's 1.2 EM, 615,000 ep.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>A giant gains 105,000 ep of statistics, 51,000 of =
abilities and 0 ranking bonuses for a total of 156,000 ep. with a =
multiplier of 1.5, the giant has to earn 469,500 raw ep to pay it =
off.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>An orc has to earn 618,750 raw ep (before EM) to pay =
off its bonuses - because 0.1 is slow.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The numbers suggest the simplest idea is for the =
racial EM to be reduced to 1.0 once the character has earnt between =
500,000 and 600,000 (raw) ep.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Whether the gods want to allow for step 3 a. above is =
another issue.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>imo Voting issues are:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1 Racial EMs to become 1.0 after an amount of EP is =
earnt - yes/no</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2 system - a. equal amount for each race or b. =
different by race - equal/different</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>3. amount - how much?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>4. do you use RAW ep earnt or EM lost to pay the =
amount? - Raw/Em</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>5. do we want a standard system for gaining =
additional racial bonuses?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>cheers Ian</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Where it is 36 and a bit humid but not so bad at the =
beach.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- to unsubscribe notify <A =
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